• FST Environment

    From Paul Richards@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 6 10:53:37 2021
    I'm new to Modula-2 and am trying to use the FST Modula-2 environment.

    I have the compiler etc in C:\M2 with sub-folders \bin, \lib, \doc and
    with the M2 and sub-folders on my PATH. I have set M2LIB = c:\m2\lib.

    I tried to compile one of the sample programs in the \doc directory i.e. sieve.mod expectng it to be found using PATH but I get a 'File not
    found' error and get dumped into an empty Editor screen.

    Can anyone provide some assistance here please? Also what is the 'work
    module' in the compiler environment?

    Thanks

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Paul Richards on Wed Jan 6 08:37:51 2021
    On 05/01/2021 23:53, Paul Richards wrote:
    I'm new to Modula-2 and am trying to use the FST Modula-2 environment.

    I have the compiler etc in C:\M2 with sub-folders \bin, \lib, \doc and
    with  the M2 and sub-folders on my PATH. I have set M2LIB = c:\m2\lib.

    I tried to compile one of the sample programs in the \doc directory i.e. sieve.mod expectng it to be found using PATH but I get a 'File not
    found' error and get dumped into an empty Editor screen.

    Can anyone provide some assistance here please? Also what is the 'work module' in the compiler environment?

    At a guess there are some other environment path variables need setting.

    Will it compile if you explicitly give the full filename or put the
    sourcecode in the root directory?

    You might find the XDS compiler easier to get started with although it
    too is a little picky about where you put things for it to work.

    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Paul Richards@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Thu Jan 7 11:56:37 2021
    On 6/01/2021 7:37 pm, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 05/01/2021 23:53, Paul Richards wrote:
    I'm new to Modula-2 and am trying to use the FST Modula-2 environment.

    I have the compiler etc in C:\M2 with sub-folders \bin, \lib, \doc and
    with  the M2 and sub-folders on my PATH. I have set M2LIB = c:\m2\lib.

    I tried to compile one of the sample programs in the \doc directory
    i.e. sieve.mod expectng it to be found using PATH but I get a 'File
    not found' error and get dumped into an empty Editor screen.

    Can anyone provide some assistance here please? Also what is the 'work
    module' in the compiler environment?

    At a guess there are some other environment path variables need setting.

    Will it compile if you explicitly give the full filename or put the sourcecode in the root directory?

    You might find the XDS compiler easier to get started with although it
    too is a little picky about where you put things for it to work.

    Martin

    Thanks for the reply. Had a look at the AUTOEXEC.BAT and there are
    indeed extra environment variables some pointing to directories which
    don't exist in my installation. I guess my installation is incorrect.

    I also have TopSpeed Modula-2 on my PC. I have also set up a batch file
    with paths to all the directories in my installation. Every time I try
    and compile a simple program I get a 'File not found' message, the file
    in question being TSMOD.DLL, which I know is in my c:\ts\sys directory.

    As far as XDS is concerned I had that on my laptop many moons ago but no longer. It seems it isn't possible to acquire binaries of the system any longer.

    Paul

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Paul Richards on Thu Jan 7 09:35:55 2021
    On 07/01/2021 00:56, Paul Richards wrote:
    On 6/01/2021 7:37 pm, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 05/01/2021 23:53, Paul Richards wrote:
    I'm new to Modula-2 and am trying to use the FST Modula-2 environment.

    I have the compiler etc in C:\M2 with sub-folders \bin, \lib, \doc
    and with  the M2 and sub-folders on my PATH. I have set M2LIB =
    c:\m2\lib.

    I tried to compile one of the sample programs in the \doc directory
    i.e. sieve.mod expectng it to be found using PATH but I get a 'File
    not found' error and get dumped into an empty Editor screen.

    Can anyone provide some assistance here please? Also what is the
    'work module' in the compiler environment?

    At a guess there are some other environment path variables need setting.

    Will it compile if you explicitly give the full filename or put the
    sourcecode in the root directory?

    You might find the XDS compiler easier to get started with although it
    too is a little picky about where you put things for it to work.

    Martin

    Thanks for the reply. Had a look at the AUTOEXEC.BAT and there are
    indeed extra environment variables some pointing to directories which
    don't exist in my installation. I guess my installation is incorrect.

    Try creating the missing directories and put some sourcecode in them.

    I also have TopSpeed Modula-2 on my PC. I have also set up a batch file
    with paths to all the directories in my installation. Every time I try
    and compile a simple program I get a 'File not found' message, the file
    in question being TSMOD.DLL, which I know is in my c:\ts\sys directory.

    I have had just about every M2 compiler going at one time or another. I
    presume you have the TS MSDOS version (rather than OS/2). There should
    be a readme file somewhere telling you what env variables need to be
    set. I no longer have a working TS DOS setup so I can't test it here.

    Might be TS_LIB or TS_SYS env variables need setting too. It is nearly
    two decades since I last used that compiler in anger. I continue to use
    the older original JPI M2 for longer because it was cute and small but
    sort of abandonned that too when Win7 came along and didn't like its
    16bit code and peeky pokey way IO to long since deceased graphics card.

    As far as XDS is concerned I had that on my laptop many moons ago but no longer. It seems it isn't possible to acquire binaries of the system any longer.

    That is a shame. It was a good compiler in its day and had some cute innovations like compiling an attempt to use an uninitialised variable
    to a hard trap by default and various other tricks. It was one of the
    first commercial compilers to use dataflow analysis to spot logic errors
    in code at compile time. They even had a TS compatibility pack which
    sort of worked up to a point- though it was like threading the eye of a
    needle for any project of a significant size. Of the available compilers
    I think XDS was one of the nicest and in latter days it was free too.

    You could try looking for it on the Wayback machine you might get lucky.

    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

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  • From Chris Burrows@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 7 13:08:02 2021
    I have all of those compilers and the manuals for Topspeed M2 so can help you to get it going once you have decided which one you prefer.

    What are you hoping to do with the system once you get it going? That will help me to recommend the most appropriate.

    Also are you running actual MS-DOS on a PC or using an emulator like DOSBox?

    If you are running under Windows you would be better off using a compiler designed for use on Windows. I would recommend ADW Modula-2 which is a rebadged StonyBrook compiler:

    https://www.modula2.org/adwm2/

    Chris

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  • From Paul Richards@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Fri Jan 8 07:55:27 2021
    On 7/01/2021 8:35 pm, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 07/01/2021 00:56, Paul Richards wrote:
    On 6/01/2021 7:37 pm, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 05/01/2021 23:53, Paul Richards wrote:
    I'm new to Modula-2 and am trying to use the FST Modula-2 environment. >>>>
    I have the compiler etc in C:\M2 with sub-folders \bin, \lib, \doc
    and with  the M2 and sub-folders on my PATH. I have set M2LIB =
    c:\m2\lib.

    I tried to compile one of the sample programs in the \doc directory
    i.e. sieve.mod expectng it to be found using PATH but I get a 'File
    not found' error and get dumped into an empty Editor screen.

    Can anyone provide some assistance here please? Also what is the
    'work module' in the compiler environment?

    At a guess there are some other environment path variables need setting. >>>
    Will it compile if you explicitly give the full filename or put the
    sourcecode in the root directory?

    You might find the XDS compiler easier to get started with although
    it too is a little picky about where you put things for it to work.

    Martin

    Thanks for the reply. Had a look at the AUTOEXEC.BAT and there are
    indeed extra environment variables some pointing to directories which
    don't exist in my installation. I guess my installation is incorrect.

    Try creating the missing directories and put some sourcecode in them.

    I also have TopSpeed Modula-2 on my PC. I have also set up a batch
    file with paths to all the directories in my installation. Every time
    I try and compile a simple program I get a 'File not found' message,
    the file in question being TSMOD.DLL, which I know is in my c:\ts\sys
    directory.

    I have had just about every M2 compiler going at one time or another. I presume you have the TS MSDOS version (rather than OS/2). There should
    be a readme file somewhere telling you what env variables need to be
    set. I no longer have a working TS DOS setup so I can't test it here.

    Might be TS_LIB or TS_SYS env variables need setting too. It is nearly
    two decades since I last used that compiler in anger. I continue to use
    the older original JPI M2 for longer because it was cute and small but
    sort of abandonned that too when Win7 came along and didn't like its
    16bit code and peeky pokey way IO to long since deceased graphics card.

    As far as XDS is concerned I had that on my laptop many moons ago but
    no longer. It seems it isn't possible to acquire binaries of the
    system any longer.

    That is a shame. It was a good compiler in its day and had some cute innovations like compiling an attempt to use an uninitialised variable
    to a hard trap by default and various other tricks. It was one of the
    first commercial compilers to use dataflow analysis to spot logic errors
    in code at compile time. They even had a TS compatibility pack which
    sort of worked up to a point- though it was like threading the eye of a needle for any project of a significant size. Of the available compilers
    I think XDS was one of the nicest and in latter days it was free too.

    You could try looking for it on the Wayback machine you might get lucky.


    Martin

    Thanks for the replies. I have actually found a v.2.51 of XDS on a
    Belgian university site and it's now installed on my laptop. I shall
    persevere in my attempts to get the other compilers working.
    Thanks again.

    Paul

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  • From Brian Knoblauch@21:1/5 to Paul Richards on Thu Jan 7 14:19:44 2021
    On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 3:55:35 PM UTC-5, Paul Richards wrote:
    Thanks for the replies. I have actually found a v.2.51 of XDS on a
    Belgian university site and it's now installed on my laptop. I shall persevere in my attempts to get the other compilers working.
    Thanks again.

    Also of note, the XDS Modula-2 GitHub repository at https://github.com/excelsior-oss/xds does contain binaries in the bin directory. Compiling from source is not required.

    --Brian

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  • From Paul Richards@21:1/5 to Brian Knoblauch on Fri Jan 8 13:20:05 2021
    On 8/01/2021 9:19 am, Brian Knoblauch wrote:
    On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 3:55:35 PM UTC-5, Paul Richards wrote:
    Thanks for the replies. I have actually found a v.2.51 of XDS on a
    Belgian university site and it's now installed on my laptop. I shall
    persevere in my attempts to get the other compilers working.
    Thanks again.

    Also of note, the XDS Modula-2 GitHub repository at https://github.com/excelsior-oss/xds does contain binaries in the bin directory. Compiling from source is not required.

    --Brian


    Brian

    OK, I didn't realise that, thanks.

    Paul

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  • From Paul Richards@21:1/5 to Chris Burrows on Fri Jan 8 13:19:04 2021
    On 8/01/2021 8:08 am, Chris Burrows wrote:
    I have all of those compilers and the manuals for Topspeed M2 so can help you to get it going once you have decided which one you prefer.

    What are you hoping to do with the system once you get it going? That will help me to recommend the most appropriate.

    Also are you running actual MS-DOS on a PC or using an emulator like DOSBox?

    If you are running under Windows you would be better off using a compiler designed for use on Windows. I would recommend ADW Modula-2 which is a rebadged StonyBrook compiler:

    https://www.modula2.org/adwm2/

    Chris


    Chris

    I'm just following an interest in various languages. Having programmed extensively in Borland Pascal I wanted to see what one of its
    predecessors was like. I have FST and Topspeed installed under DOSBox-x.
    The problems I'm having, as you will have noted, seem to be related to
    the PATH and environment variables in that both compilers can't seem to
    find certain files even if they are there.

    I'll be trying to develop fairly simple programs at first but eventually
    I want to look at random access files and their use.

    Paul

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Brian Knoblauch on Fri Jan 8 09:39:11 2021
    On 07/01/2021 22:19, Brian Knoblauch wrote:
    On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 3:55:35 PM UTC-5, Paul Richards
    wrote:
    Thanks for the replies. I have actually found a v.2.51 of XDS on a
    Belgian university site and it's now installed on my laptop. I
    shall persevere in my attempts to get the other compilers working.
    Thanks again.

    Also of note, the XDS Modula-2 GitHub repository at https://github.com/excelsior-oss/xds does contain binaries in the bin directory. Compiling from source is not required.

    You have got me interested.

    Is the compiler source for that actually available?


    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

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  • From Brian Knoblauch@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Fri Jan 8 03:56:56 2021
    On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 4:39:14 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 07/01/2021 22:19, Brian Knoblauch wrote:
    Also of note, the XDS Modula-2 GitHub repository at https://github.com/excelsior-oss/xds does contain binaries in the bin directory. Compiling from source is not required.
    You have got me interested.

    Is the compiler source for that actually available?

    Appears to be complete as there are extensive source files in the repository and has instructions to build from source with NASM/MinGW/Visual Studio Community. However, I made only one quick (and unsuccessful) attempt at a source build before I realized
    the included binaries were complete and continued on with my actual project at the time. A quick travel through some of the directories and it seems it is primarily written in Oberon-2.

    --Brian

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  • From Chris Burrows@21:1/5 to Paul Richards on Fri Jan 8 11:55:45 2021
    On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 12:49:12 PM UTC+10:30, Paul Richards wrote:


    I'm just following an interest in various languages. Having programmed extensively in Borland Pascal I wanted to see what one of its
    predecessors was like. I have FST and Topspeed installed under DOSBox-x.
    The problems I'm having, as you will have noted, seem to be related to
    the PATH and environment variables in that both compilers can't seem to
    find certain files even if they are there.

    I'll be trying to develop fairly simple programs at first but eventually
    I want to look at random access files and their use.

    Paul

    OK - I see. I assume you mean 'successors' rather than 'predecessors'? The chronology / timeline of this family of languages is:

    ... ALGOL60 -> Pascal -> Modula-2 -> Oberon

    Modula-2 cleaned up most of the syntactic quirks of Pascal.

    In the Modula-2 era software was accompanied by extensive printed documentation and very little online. e.g the TopSpeed system came with more than 1000 pages in the form of a User's Manual, Language Tutorial, User Reference, Techkit and Visual Debugger.
    Unfortunately, you would only be able to scratch the surface and not be able to get a full appreciation of the system without this. Personally, I wouldn't bother with FST except as a very simple introduction. It was very rudimentary. Another system to
    look out for is Logitech Modula-2, particularly version 3 if you want to run under MS-DOS. They were amongst the original and were the kings for many years. Their Visual Debugger was groundbreaking at the time. The full manuals are available online from
    BitSavers and the like.

    Regards,
    Chris Burrows
    CFB Software
    https://www.cfbsoftware.com/modula2

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  • From Paul Richards@21:1/5 to Chris Burrows on Sat Jan 9 13:53:39 2021
    On 9/01/2021 6:55 am, Chris Burrows wrote:
    On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 12:49:12 PM UTC+10:30, Paul Richards wrote:


    I'm just following an interest in various languages. Having programmed
    extensively in Borland Pascal I wanted to see what one of its
    predecessors was like. I have FST and Topspeed installed under DOSBox-x.
    The problems I'm having, as you will have noted, seem to be related to
    the PATH and environment variables in that both compilers can't seem to
    find certain files even if they are there.

    I'll be trying to develop fairly simple programs at first but eventually
    I want to look at random access files and their use.

    Paul

    OK - I see. I assume you mean 'successors' rather than 'predecessors'? The chronology / timeline of this family of languages is:

    ... ALGOL60 -> Pascal -> Modula-2 -> Oberon

    Modula-2 cleaned up most of the syntactic quirks of Pascal.

    In the Modula-2 era software was accompanied by extensive printed documentation and very little online. e.g the TopSpeed system came with more than 1000 pages in the form of a User's Manual, Language Tutorial, User Reference, Techkit and Visual
    Debugger. Unfortunately, you would only be able to scratch the surface and not be able to get a full appreciation of the system without this. Personally, I wouldn't bother with FST except as a very simple introduction. It was very rudimentary. Another
    system to look out for is Logitech Modula-2, particularly version 3 if you want to run under MS-DOS. They were amongst the original and were the kings for many years. Their Visual Debugger was groundbreaking at the time. The full manuals are available
    online from BitSavers and the like.

    Regards,
    Chris Burrows
    CFB Software
    https://www.cfbsoftware.com/modula2



    Chris

    I didn't express myself very well - I meant that by the time Borland had developed up to version 7 of their Pascal they had incorporated some of Modula-2's features like separate compilation of what they called Units
    as opposed to compiling monolithic programs.

    OK, I've got rid of FST and installed Logitech Modula-2 - the compiler
    kit and the toolkit, options 1 and 2. The installation program makes
    reference to an option 3, the Development Environment. What does this
    offer over 1 and 2?

    Also got the documentation from a Bitsaver's mirror.

    Thanks
    Paul

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  • From Fruttenboel@21:1/5 to Fruttenboel on Sat Jan 9 01:30:24 2021
    On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 10:26:02 AM UTC+1, Fruttenboel wrote:
    For some reason I lost my privileges in this google group....

    If looking for FST sources and how to go along, visit https://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/modula-2/index.html

    I still have an FST running in a DOS box on my Linux machine. FSTis a VERY decent compiler. It even has a builtin assembler.

    AFAIR you only need to make sure the compiler is in the search path. This evening I will look things up and post them here. Don't lower yourself to the level of Logitech.

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  • From Fruttenboel@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 9 01:26:01 2021
    For some reason I lost my privileges in this google group....

    If looking for FST sources and how to go along, visit https://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/modula-2/index.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Fruttenboel@21:1/5 to Fruttenboel on Sat Jan 9 11:23:25 2021
    On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 10:30:25 AM UTC+1, Fruttenboel wrote:
    On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 10:26:02 AM UTC+1, Fruttenboel wrote:
    For some reason I lost my privileges in this google group....

    If looking for FST sources and how to go along, visit https://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/modula-2/index.html
    I still have an FST running in a DOS box on my Linux machine. FSTis a VERY decent compiler. It even has a builtin assembler.

    AFAIR you only need to make sure the compiler is in the search path. This evening I will look things up and post them here. Don't lower yourself to the level of Logitech.

    Two lines in autoexec.bat ought to do the trick: one to set the path to the FST executables and one to set m2lib to your own private modules.

    :DRDOSBEG
    path C:\BAT;C:\DRDOS;C:\PCW;C:\SUPPORT;..;C:\LANG\PowerC;C:\LANG\MODULA2
    set m2lib=c:\lang\modula\m2lib;c:\lang\modula\jvlib
    :DRDOSEND

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  • From Paul Richards@21:1/5 to Chris Burrows on Sun Jan 10 19:21:10 2021
    On 8/01/2021 8:08 am, Chris Burrows wrote:
    I have all of those compilers and the manuals for Topspeed M2 so can help you to get it going once you have decided which one you prefer.

    What are you hoping to do with the system once you get it going? That will help me to recommend the most appropriate.

    Also are you running actual MS-DOS on a PC or using an emulator like DOSBox?

    If you are running under Windows you would be better off using a compiler designed for use on Windows. I would recommend ADW Modula-2 which is a rebadged StonyBrook compiler:

    https://www.modula2.org/adwm2/

    Chris




    Chris

    Although I have successfully got the Logitech compiler working I would
    still like try and use the Topspeed M2 system. Given that every time I
    try and compile a program I get a "File not found" error (TSMOD.DLL) I
    assume that I am missing the appropriate Environment variables (there
    are certainly quite a number for Logitech.)

    I've searched extensively on the web but that has not provided anything
    so could you possibly have a look at the appropriate TS manual and maybe
    let me know what Env variables I should set?

    Thanks
    Paul

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  • From Paul Attryde@21:1/5 to Paul Richards on Sun Jan 10 10:43:31 2021
    On 2021-01-10 03:21, Paul Richards wrote:
    On 8/01/2021 8:08 am, Chris Burrows wrote:
    I have all of those compilers and the manuals for Topspeed M2 so can
    help you to get it going once you have decided which one you prefer.

    What are you hoping to do with the system once you get it going? That
    will help me to recommend the most appropriate.

    Also are you running actual MS-DOS on a PC or using an emulator like
    DOSBox?

    If you are running under Windows you would be better off using a
    compiler designed for use on Windows. I would recommend ADW Modula-2
    which is a rebadged StonyBrook compiler:

    https://www.modula2.org/adwm2/

    Chris




    Chris

    Although I have successfully got the Logitech compiler working I would
    still like try and use the Topspeed M2 system. Given that every time I
    try and compile a program I get a "File not found" error (TSMOD.DLL) I
    assume that I am missing the appropriate Environment variables (there
    are certainly quite a number for Logitech.)


    IIRC, and it's been 25+ years since I worked for JPI, all you need is
    the PATH to be set correctly.
    What directory is the compiler installed into, and what does your PATH
    look like?

    Paul

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Chris Burrows on Sun Jan 10 17:31:27 2021
    On 08/01/2021 19:55, Chris Burrows wrote:
    On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 12:49:12 PM UTC+10:30, Paul Richards
    wrote:


    I'm just following an interest in various languages. Having
    programmed extensively in Borland Pascal I wanted to see what one
    of its predecessors was like. I have FST and Topspeed installed
    under DOSBox-x. The problems I'm having, as you will have noted,
    seem to be related to the PATH and environment variables in that
    both compilers can't seem to find certain files even if they are
    there.

    I'll be trying to develop fairly simple programs at first but
    eventually I want to look at random access files and their use.

    Paul

    OK - I see. I assume you mean 'successors' rather than
    'predecessors'? The chronology / timeline of this family of languages
    is:

    ... ALGOL60 -> Pascal -> Modula-2 -> Oberon

    Modula-2 cleaned up most of the syntactic quirks of Pascal.

    In the Modula-2 era software was accompanied by extensive printed documentation and very little online. e.g the TopSpeed system came
    with more than 1000 pages in the form of a User's Manual, Language
    Tutorial, User Reference, Techkit and Visual Debugger. Unfortunately,
    you would only be able to scratch the surface and not be able to get
    a full appreciation of the system without this. Personally, I
    wouldn't bother with FST except as a very simple introduction. It was
    very rudimentary. Another system to look out for is Logitech
    Modula-2, particularly version 3 if you want to run under MS-DOS.
    They were amongst the original and were the kings for many years.
    Their Visual Debugger was groundbreaking at the time. The full
    manuals are available online from BitSavers and the like.

    As was their PMD facility to find out exactly where and how a program
    failed assuming that you had a copy of the release version and linker
    map. I preferred JPI/Topspeed to Logitech though. Logitech was a 4 pass overlaid compiler but it was slow and as dumb as a rock for optimising
    and any assembler code had to be entered in *HEX*.


    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

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  • From Chris Burrows@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Sun Jan 10 12:38:34 2021
    On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 4:01:29 AM UTC+10:30, Martin Brown wrote:
    As was their PMD facility to find out exactly where and how a program
    failed assuming that you had a copy of the release version and linker
    map. I preferred JPI/Topspeed to Logitech though. Logitech was a 4 pass overlaid compiler but it was slow and as dumb as a rock for optimising
    and any assembler code had to be entered in *HEX*.


    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    Agreed. When JPI/ Topspeed eventually came on the scene it knocked the socks off everything else in terms of speed. I recommended Logitech primarily because the documentation is available online. However, I don't really think speed is an issue now we
    have systems running faster than a 6 MHz 286 when it was first introduced ;-)

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  • From Paul Richards@21:1/5 to Paul Attryde on Mon Jan 11 07:18:45 2021
    On 11/01/2021 2:43 am, Paul Attryde wrote:
    On 2021-01-10 03:21, Paul Richards wrote:
    On 8/01/2021 8:08 am, Chris Burrows wrote:
    I have all of those compilers and the manuals for Topspeed M2 so can
    help you to get it going once you have decided which one you prefer.

    What are you hoping to do with the system once you get it going? That
    will help me to recommend the most appropriate.

    Also are you running actual MS-DOS on a PC or using an emulator like
    DOSBox?

    If you are running under Windows you would be better off using a
    compiler designed for use on Windows. I would recommend ADW Modula-2
    which is a rebadged StonyBrook compiler:

    https://www.modula2.org/adwm2/

    Chris




    Chris

    Although I have successfully got the Logitech compiler working I would
    still like try and use the Topspeed M2 system. Given that every time I
    try and compile a program I get a "File not found" error (TSMOD.DLL) I
    assume that I am missing the appropriate Environment variables (there
    are certainly quite a number for Logitech.)


    IIRC, and it's been 25+ years since I worked for JPI, all you need is
    the PATH to be set correctly.
    What directory is the compiler installed into, and what does your PATH
    look like?

    Paul


    Paul

    It's in C:\TS and to launch it I run a batch file with the following
    entries:

    path=c:\ts\xtd_sys;c:\ts\sys;c:\ts\exp;c:\ts\include;c:\ts\examples;c:\ts\lib;c:\ts\pr;
    cls
    ts

    I know TSMOD.DLL is in c:\ts\sys but I get the 'not found' error.

    Paul

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  • From Chris Burrows@21:1/5 to Paul Richards on Sun Jan 10 12:54:29 2021
    On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 6:51:17 PM UTC+10:30, Paul Richards wrote:

    Although I have successfully got the Logitech compiler working I would
    still like try and use the Topspeed M2 system. Given that every time I
    try and compile a program I get a "File not found" error (TSMOD.DLL) I
    assume that I am missing the appropriate Environment variables (there
    are certainly quite a number for Logitech.)

    I've searched extensively on the web but that has not provided anything
    so could you possibly have a look at the appropriate TS manual and maybe
    let me know what Env variables I should set?

    Thanks
    Paul

    The INSTALL program should set everything up for you. The manual says:

    "9. INSTALL may display further instructions when you finish the installation. Carefully read this information. You may be told to edit your AUTOEXEC.BAT and / or other system files in order to correctly support TopSpeed. Modify the files as indicated."

    TSMOD.DLL should be located in the same folder as TS.EXE. Maybe your path needs to include <current directory. (i.e. '.')?

    TS does not use environment variables. There is a text file called TS.RED (for redirection) used to define search paths with one file type on each line e.g.

    *.obj = c:\objs; c:\ts.objs

    but this is not used to locate the executables

    Regards,
    Chris Burrows
    CFB Software
    https://www.cfbsoftware.com/modula2

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  • From Chris Burrows@21:1/5 to Paul Richards on Sun Jan 10 14:21:16 2021
    On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 12:49:12 PM UTC+10:30, Paul Richards wrote:
    predecessors was like. I have FST and Topspeed installed under DOSBox-x.
    The problems I'm having, as you will have noted, seem to be related to
    the PATH and environment variables in that both compilers can't seem to
    find certain files even if they are there.


    I tried installing Toipspeed under DOSBox 0.74 but I can't even get past square one. When I run INSTALL it prompts me for a directory but everything I try (including the 'mounted' drives) results in an 'invalid target directory' error. Are you able to
    try it on a proper MSDOS system? I don't have on problems on mine.

    Chris

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  • From Paul Richards@21:1/5 to Chris Burrows on Mon Jan 11 12:01:27 2021
    On 11/01/2021 9:21 am, Chris Burrows wrote:
    On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 12:49:12 PM UTC+10:30, Paul Richards wrote:
    predecessors was like. I have FST and Topspeed installed under DOSBox-x.
    The problems I'm having, as you will have noted, seem to be related to
    the PATH and environment variables in that both compilers can't seem to
    find certain files even if they are there.


    I tried installing Toipspeed under DOSBox 0.74 but I can't even get past square one. When I run INSTALL it prompts me for a directory but everything I try (including the 'mounted' drives) results in an 'invalid target directory' error. Are you able to
    try it on a proper MSDOS system? I don't have on problems on mine.

    Chris


    I use DOSBox-x which opens on drive z:\. I have a directory structure c:\vdos\ts and I mount c c:\vdos - this then shows as c:\ with a
    directory structure beneath. I put all the INSTALL programs in a
    temporary directory c:\tsinst, load DOSBox-x which opens at the c:\
    prompt, cd to c:\tsinst and hit INSTALL.EXE. Topspeed installs into
    c:\ts (the default).

    I don't have a native MS-DOS system just emulators or VMs.

    Paul

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  • From Chris Burrows@21:1/5 to Paul Richards on Mon Jan 11 02:27:02 2021
    On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 11:31:35 AM UTC+10:30, Paul Richards wrote:


    I use DOSBox-x which opens on drive z:\. I have a directory structure c:\vdos\ts and I mount c c:\vdos - this then shows as c:\ with a
    directory structure beneath. I put all the INSTALL programs in a
    temporary directory c:\tsinst, load DOSBox-x which opens at the c:\
    prompt, cd to c:\tsinst and hit INSTALL.EXE. Topspeed installs into
    c:\ts (the default).

    I don't have a native MS-DOS system just emulators or VMs.


    OK - I did something similar to that and it now installs OK. I installed into C:\TS which is mapped to D:\vdos\TS and it compiles PROG1.MOD (Hello) OK.

    I installed the 'real mode' version of the compiler. I don't have a PATH variable set. I change directory to TS\SYS before I run TS.exe.

    I hope this helps,
    Chris

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  • From Paul Attryde@21:1/5 to Paul Richards on Mon Jan 11 07:33:58 2021
    On 2021-01-10 15:18, Paul Richards wrote:
    On 11/01/2021 2:43 am, Paul Attryde wrote:
    On 2021-01-10 03:21, Paul Richards wrote:
    On 8/01/2021 8:08 am, Chris Burrows wrote:
    I have all of those compilers and the manuals for Topspeed M2 so can
    help you to get it going once you have decided which one you prefer.

    What are you hoping to do with the system once you get it going?
    That will help me to recommend the most appropriate.

    Also are you running actual MS-DOS on a PC or using an emulator like
    DOSBox?

    If you are running under Windows you would be better off using a
    compiler designed for use on Windows. I would recommend ADW Modula-2
    which is a rebadged StonyBrook compiler:

    https://www.modula2.org/adwm2/

    Chris




    Chris

    Although I have successfully got the Logitech compiler working I
    would still like try and use the Topspeed M2 system. Given that every
    time I try and compile a program I get a "File not found" error
    (TSMOD.DLL) I assume that I am missing the appropriate Environment
    variables (there are certainly quite a number for Logitech.)


    IIRC, and it's been 25+ years since I worked for JPI, all you need is
    the PATH to be set correctly.
    What directory is the compiler installed into, and what does your PATH
    look like?

    Paul


    Paul

    It's in C:\TS and  to launch it I run a batch file with the following entries:

    path=c:\ts\xtd_sys;c:\ts\sys;c:\ts\exp;c:\ts\include;c:\ts\examples;c:\ts\lib;c:\ts\pr;


    Do you have an OS2_SYS directory?
    In theory you only need c:\ts\xtd_sys, c:\ts\sys & c:\ts\os2_sys in the
    path, I just can't remember the order.
    But a new install from scratch should set them correctly.

    As Chris says, for everything else you use the .red file, so you can
    take all of the other folders out of the path since they won't be used.

    Paul

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  • From Chris Burrows@21:1/5 to Chris Burrows on Mon Jan 11 11:40:11 2021
    On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 8:57:03 PM UTC+10:30, Chris Burrows wrote:
    On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 11:31:35 AM UTC+10:30, Paul Richards wrote:


    I use DOSBox-x which opens on drive z:\. I have a directory structure c:\vdos\ts and I mount c c:\vdos - this then shows as c:\ with a
    directory structure beneath. I put all the INSTALL programs in a
    temporary directory c:\tsinst, load DOSBox-x which opens at the c:\
    prompt, cd to c:\tsinst and hit INSTALL.EXE. Topspeed installs into
    c:\ts (the default).

    I don't have a native MS-DOS system just emulators or VMs.

    OK - I did something similar to that and it now installs OK. I installed into C:\TS which is mapped to D:\vdos\TS and it compiles PROG1.MOD (Hello) OK.

    I installed the 'real mode' version of the compiler. I don't have a PATH variable set. I change directory to TS\SYS before I run TS.exe.

    I hope this helps,
    Chris

    I ran some more tests:

    I'm using DOSBox 0.74 and the DOS Release 3.1 of TopSpeed Modula-2 from Clarion Software Corporation. I've now successfully run it from a batch file located in a different folder with just the following lines:

    path=c:\ts\sys
    ts

    TSMOD.DLL should be put into the same directory as TS.EXE by INSTALL. I tried running INSTALL again with the default options and it didn't even install TS.EXE!

    I then ran INSTALL again with a minimal number of changes to the options:

    I set 'DOS Environment Files' to YES and OS2 Target System to NO.

    It shows that v3.1 of the Modula-2 development system has been installed and didn't say anything about the AUTOEXEC.BAT file (that was in the manual!). I suggest you delete your TS directory and run INSTALL again with these two options set.

    To compile the example I start TS and then select the file PROG1.MOD using Files > Pick File and navigate to the TS\EXAMPLES directory to locate it.

    I then press F10 to get to the main menu, C for compile and voila! it compiles.

    Chris

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  • From Paul Richards@21:1/5 to Chris Burrows on Tue Jan 12 09:18:06 2021
    On 12/01/2021 6:40 am, Chris Burrows wrote:
    On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 8:57:03 PM UTC+10:30, Chris Burrows wrote:
    On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 11:31:35 AM UTC+10:30, Paul Richards wrote: >>

    I use DOSBox-x which opens on drive z:\. I have a directory structure
    c:\vdos\ts and I mount c c:\vdos - this then shows as c:\ with a
    directory structure beneath. I put all the INSTALL programs in a
    temporary directory c:\tsinst, load DOSBox-x which opens at the c:\
    prompt, cd to c:\tsinst and hit INSTALL.EXE. Topspeed installs into
    c:\ts (the default).

    I don't have a native MS-DOS system just emulators or VMs.

    OK - I did something similar to that and it now installs OK. I installed into C:\TS which is mapped to D:\vdos\TS and it compiles PROG1.MOD (Hello) OK.

    I installed the 'real mode' version of the compiler. I don't have a PATH variable set. I change directory to TS\SYS before I run TS.exe.

    I hope this helps,
    Chris

    I ran some more tests:

    I'm using DOSBox 0.74 and the DOS Release 3.1 of TopSpeed Modula-2 from Clarion Software Corporation. I've now successfully run it from a batch file located in a different folder with just the following lines:

    path=c:\ts\sys
    ts

    TSMOD.DLL should be put into the same directory as TS.EXE by INSTALL. I tried running INSTALL again with the default options and it didn't even install TS.EXE!

    I then ran INSTALL again with a minimal number of changes to the options:

    I set 'DOS Environment Files' to YES and OS2 Target System to NO.

    It shows that v3.1 of the Modula-2 development system has been installed and didn't say anything about the AUTOEXEC.BAT file (that was in the manual!). I suggest you delete your TS directory and run INSTALL again with these two options set.

    To compile the example I start TS and then select the file PROG1.MOD using Files > Pick File and navigate to the TS\EXAMPLES directory to locate it.

    I then press F10 to get to the main menu, C for compile and voila! it compiles.

    Chris


    Chris

    Well I modified my batch file to:

    path=c:\ts\sys
    ts

    and, as you say, Voila, prog1.mod Compiles and Links correctly. The only
    issue is that after loading the file from the c:\ts\examples directory
    the Compile puts prog1.obj in the c:\ts directory. I had to copy
    prog1.mod from c:\ts\examples to the c:\ts directory to get a successful
    Link and subsequent Execute.

    Many thanks for your efforts - I really appreciate them.

    Paul

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  • From Paul Richards@21:1/5 to Paul Attryde on Tue Jan 12 09:21:11 2021
    On 11/01/2021 11:33 pm, Paul Attryde wrote:
    On 2021-01-10 15:18, Paul Richards wrote:
    On 11/01/2021 2:43 am, Paul Attryde wrote:
    On 2021-01-10 03:21, Paul Richards wrote:
    On 8/01/2021 8:08 am, Chris Burrows wrote:
    I have all of those compilers and the manuals for Topspeed M2 so
    can help you to get it going once you have decided which one you
    prefer.

    What are you hoping to do with the system once you get it going?
    That will help me to recommend the most appropriate.

    Also are you running actual MS-DOS on a PC or using an emulator
    like DOSBox?

    If you are running under Windows you would be better off using a
    compiler designed for use on Windows. I would recommend ADW
    Modula-2 which is a rebadged StonyBrook compiler:

    https://www.modula2.org/adwm2/

    Chris




    Chris

    Although I have successfully got the Logitech compiler working I
    would still like try and use the Topspeed M2 system. Given that
    every time I try and compile a program I get a "File not found"
    error (TSMOD.DLL) I assume that I am missing the appropriate
    Environment variables (there are certainly quite a number for
    Logitech.)


    IIRC, and it's been 25+ years since I worked for JPI, all you need is
    the PATH to be set correctly.
    What directory is the compiler installed into, and what does your
    PATH look like?

    Paul


    Paul

    It's in C:\TS and  to launch it I run a batch file with the following
    entries:

    path=c:\ts\xtd_sys;c:\ts\sys;c:\ts\exp;c:\ts\include;c:\ts\examples;c:\ts\lib;c:\ts\pr;


    Do you have an OS2_SYS directory?
    In theory you only need c:\ts\xtd_sys, c:\ts\sys & c:\ts\os2_sys in the
    path, I just can't remember the order.
    But a new install from scratch should set them correctly.

    As Chris says, for everything else you use the .red file, so you can
    take all of the other folders out of the path since they won't be used.

    Paul


    As you may have seen from my reply to Chris, following his instructions
    I now have a successful compile/link.execute process :-)

    Thanks for your suggestions.

    Paul

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Brian Knoblauch on Wed Jan 13 14:14:59 2021
    On 08/01/2021 11:56, Brian Knoblauch wrote:
    On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 4:39:14 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 07/01/2021 22:19, Brian Knoblauch wrote:
    Also of note, the XDS Modula-2 GitHub repository at
    https://github.com/excelsior-oss/xds does contain binaries in the
    bin directory. Compiling from source is not required.
    You have got me interested.

    Is the compiler source for that actually available?

    Appears to be complete as there are extensive source files in the
    repository and has instructions to build from source with
    NASM/MinGW/Visual Studio Community. However, I made only one quick
    (and unsuccessful) attempt at a source build before I realized the
    included binaries were complete and continued on with my actual
    project at the time. A quick travel through some of the directories
    and it seems it is primarily written in Oberon-2.

    many thanks!

    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

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  • From antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl@21:1/5 to Paul Richards on Tue Feb 9 21:30:07 2021
    Paul Richards <paulrichards@iinet.net.au> wrote:
    On 9/01/2021 6:55 am, Chris Burrows wrote:
    On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 12:49:12 PM UTC+10:30, Paul Richards wrote:


    I'm just following an interest in various languages. Having programmed
    extensively in Borland Pascal I wanted to see what one of its
    predecessors was like.

    OK - I see. I assume you mean 'successors' rather than 'predecessors'? The chronology / timeline of this family of languages is:

    ... ALGOL60 -> Pascal -> Modula-2 -> Oberon

    Modula-2 cleaned up most of the syntactic quirks of Pascal.


    I didn't express myself very well - I meant that by the time Borland had developed up to version 7 of their Pascal they had incorporated some of Modula-2's features like separate compilation of what they called Units
    as opposed to compiling monolithic programs.

    Units are UCSD Pascal feature. AFAIK history here is:

    -> UCSD Pascal -> Turbo Pascal
    /
    Mesa
    \
    -> Modula -> Modula 2

    During stay in US Wirth learned about Mesa and modules, and
    included them in Modula. This was parallel to developement
    of UCSD Pascal. Modules appeared also in CLU, which seem to
    be parallel to Mesa (but it seem that CLU compiler is lost).

    BTW: IIRC units appeared in Turbo Pascal 3 (definitely much
    earlier than version 7, I used them in Turbo Pascal 5).

    --
    Waldek Hebisch

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  • From Chris Burrows@21:1/5 to anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl on Tue Feb 9 19:17:18 2021
    On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 8:00:08 AM UTC+10:30, anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl wrote:


    BTW: IIRC units appeared in Turbo Pascal 3 (definitely much
    earlier than version 7, I used them in Turbo Pascal 5).


    Actually they first appeared in Turbo Pascal 4.at the end of 1987, more than three years after Modula-2 compilers started to become widely available.

    --
    Chris Burrows
    CFB Software
    https://www.cfbsoftware.com/modula2

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  • From oligunnlaugs@gmail.com@21:1/5 to anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl on Fri Feb 12 05:08:05 2021
    On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 at 21:30:08 UTC, anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl wrote:
    Paul Richards <paulri...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
    On 9/01/2021 6:55 am, Chris Burrows wrote:
    On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 12:49:12 PM UTC+10:30, Paul Richards wrote:


    I'm just following an interest in various languages. Having programmed >> extensively in Borland Pascal I wanted to see what one of its
    predecessors was like.

    OK - I see. I assume you mean 'successors' rather than 'predecessors'? The chronology / timeline of this family of languages is:

    ... ALGOL60 -> Pascal -> Modula-2 -> Oberon

    Modula-2 cleaned up most of the syntactic quirks of Pascal.


    I didn't express myself very well - I meant that by the time Borland had developed up to version 7 of their Pascal they had incorporated some of Modula-2's features like separate compilation of what they called Units
    as opposed to compiling monolithic programs.
    Units are UCSD Pascal feature. AFAIK history here is:

    UCSD Pascal -> Turbo Pascal
    /
    Mesa
    \
    Modula -> Modula 2

    During stay in US Wirth learned about Mesa and modules, and
    included them in Modula. This was parallel to developement
    of UCSD Pascal. Modules appeared also in CLU, which seem to
    be parallel to Mesa (but it seem that CLU compiler is lost).

    BTW: IIRC units appeared in Turbo Pascal 3 (definitely much
    earlier than version 7, I used them in Turbo Pascal 5).

    --
    Waldek Hebisch

    Mesa influenced Modula-2, Modula predates Mesa. Modula influenced Mesa and the modules/units in CHILL and Ada. Actually according to the authors of CHILL (Philips), both Ada and CHILL are actually based on Modula and not on Pascal/LIS (Bull Language d'
    Implementation de Systèmes) as stated in most history articles and Wikipedia.

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