• Spam on comp.lang.fortran via Google Groups

    From Beliavsky@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 13:45:35 2022
    Viewing c.l.f. via https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.fortran I see lots of spam. There are probably better ways of accessing the forum, but Google Groups does not make you install anything and is convenient. I will make a point of notifying Google of
    spam daily, and I hope others do too, so that the venerable comp.lang.fortran is not overrun, as https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.python and https://groups.google.com/g/sci.math.num-analysis have been.

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  • From Gary Scott@21:1/5 to Beliavsky on Sat Feb 12 16:34:17 2022
    On 2/12/2022 3:45 PM, Beliavsky wrote:
    Viewing c.l.f. via https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.fortran I see lots of spam. There are probably better ways of accessing the forum, but Google Groups does not make you install anything and is convenient. I will make a point of notifying Google
    of spam daily, and I hope others do too, so that the venerable comp.lang.fortran is not overrun, as https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.python and https://groups.google.com/g/sci.math.num-analysis have been.
    I'm seeing very little spam in Thunderbird (eternal September).

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  • From Jos Bergervoet@21:1/5 to Gary Scott on Sun Feb 13 00:32:36 2022
    On 22/02/12 11:34 PM, Gary Scott wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 3:45 PM, Beliavsky wrote:

    Viewing c.l.f. via https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.fortran I see
    lots of spam. There are probably better ways of accessing the forum,
    but Google Groups does not make you install anything and is
    convenient. I will make a point of notifying Google of spam daily, and
    I hope others do too, so that the venerable comp.lang.fortran is not
    overrun, as https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.python and
    https://groups.google.com/g/sci.math.num-analysis have been.

    I'm seeing very little spam in Thunderbird (eternal September).

    But that hasn't yet been bought by Google. Compiling a Fortran
    program with gfortran at this moment also gives almost no spam
    built into the executable! These things change of course when
    after their acquisition these tools will be reduced to a small
    paragraph in the Google Groups history:
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Groups#Deja_News>

    --
    Jos

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  • From baf@21:1/5 to Beliavsky on Sat Feb 12 22:18:01 2022
    On 2/12/2022 1:45 PM, Beliavsky wrote:
    Viewing c.l.f. via https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.fortran I see lots of spam. There are probably better ways of accessing the forum, but Google Groups does not make you install anything and is convenient. I will make a point of notifying Google
    of spam daily, and I hope others do too, so that the venerable comp.lang.fortran is not overrun, as https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.python and https://groups.google.com/g/sci.math.num-analysis have been.

    No spam by accessing this newsgroup via the NNTP news server news.individual.net using any NNTP news reader (I use Thunderbird but
    many other free alternatives). Accessing newsgroups via
    news.individual.net cost about $12/year, but a small price to pay for
    not having to deal with the spam. I have used this service for about 10
    years and have probably seen 2 or 3 spam messages per year on average.

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  • From Arjen Markus@21:1/5 to baf on Sun Feb 13 02:05:19 2022
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 7:18:06 AM UTC+1, baf wrote:
    On 2/12/2022 1:45 PM, Beliavsky wrote:
    Viewing c.l.f. via https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.fortran I see lots of spam. There are probably better ways of accessing the forum, but Google Groups does not make you install anything and is convenient. I will make a point of notifying
    Google of spam daily, and I hope others do too, so that the venerable comp.lang.fortran is not overrun, as https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.python and https://groups.google.com/g/sci.math.num-analysis have been.
    No spam by accessing this newsgroup via the NNTP news server news.individual.net using any NNTP news reader (I use Thunderbird but
    many other free alternatives). Accessing newsgroups via
    news.individual.net cost about $12/year, but a small price to pay for
    not having to deal with the spam. I have used this service for about 10 years and have probably seen 2 or 3 spam messages per year on average.

    Like Beliavsky, I use Google groups to read the newsgroup, for pretty much the same reasons. Whenever I see obvious spam I report it. It at least helps with the indicated messages. But note that about half a year ago, the clf newgroup was banned by
    Google altogether, because of the spam that was reported! It made the Hacker News and The Register online news sites. clf is not the only newgroup that is affected by this.

    Regards,

    Arjen

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  • From gah4@21:1/5 to Beliavsky on Sun Feb 13 02:23:07 2022
    On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 1:45:37 PM UTC-8, Beliavsky wrote:
    Viewing c.l.f. via https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.fortran I see lots of spam. There are probably better ways of accessing the forum, but Google Groups does not make you install anything and is convenient. I will make a point of notifying Google
    of spam daily, and I hope others do too, so that the venerable comp.lang.fortran is not overrun, as https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.python and https://groups.google.com/g/sci.math.num-analysis have been.

    Unless others see something different, I see 8 spam messages in three months.

    I get many spam e-mail messages a day, and manage to ignore them, and I suspect I
    can live with 0.09/day here.

    Besides, they seem to like capital letters, which makes it very easy to ignore them.

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  • From Ron Shepard@21:1/5 to Arjen Markus on Sun Feb 13 11:42:31 2022
    On 2/13/22 4:05 AM, Arjen Markus wrote:
    But note that about half a year ago, the clf newgroup was banned by Google altogether, because of the spam that was reported!

    What exactly does it mean that clf was banned by Google? Does that mean
    that clf can no longer be read through google, or that it is no longer
    possible to post through google, or what?

    I have noticed that clf discussions have mostly tapered off in the last
    few months. Maybe that ban, whatever its consequences, was the reason?

    SPAM postings, particularly from new domains, are more an issue of the
    NNTP news server than they are for the reader software on your computer.
    I'm seeing about one SPAM post per day in clf through forteinc.com,
    which is cheap but not free. That's one too many, but it is not so bad
    that it overwhelms the actual fortran posts that I do see here, so I am tolerating it so far.

    I do admit that I miss the old days in the 1990s, when clf and sci.math.num-analysis groups were both on topic and more active. There
    were many cross-posts, as many of the participants were, like me,
    typically interested in both areas. As others have mentioned, that
    latter group was taken over a decade ago almost entirely by SPAM,
    probably never to recover.

    $.02 -Ron Shepard

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  • From Beliavsky@21:1/5 to Ron Shepard on Sun Feb 13 12:24:40 2022
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 12:42:35 PM UTC-5, Ron Shepard wrote:
    On 2/13/22 4:05 AM, Arjen Markus wrote:
    But note that about half a year ago, the clf newgroup was banned by Google altogether, because of the spam that was reported!
    What exactly does it mean that clf was banned by Google? Does that mean
    that clf can no longer be read through google, or that it is no longer possible to post through google, or what?

    I have noticed that clf discussions have mostly tapered off in the last
    few months. Maybe that ban, whatever its consequences, was the reason?

    Few young people use Usenet, and older people die. Also, Fortran Discourse is now a better forum with more activity and code formatting. Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/fortran/ is pretty active. But there's good stuff here too, and we should keep it
    that way.

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  • From Beliavsky@21:1/5 to Thomas Koenig on Sun Feb 13 12:55:44 2022
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 3:40:38 PM UTC-5, Thomas Koenig wrote:
    Beliavsky <beli...@aol.com> schrieb:
    Few young people use Usenet, and older people die. Also,
    Fortran Discourse is now a better forum with more activity and
    code formatting.
    "Better" is debatable.

    Unless they have changed their requirement for "welcoming" language,
    I am not joining.

    Could you explain your objection a bit? In the past, when comp.lang.fortran was more active,
    there was at least one poster who was often abusive, and I can think of pairs of posters who
    regularly had the same quarrels. Fortran Discourse wants to avoid that. Is there a specific
    item in the Terms of Service https://fortran-lang.discourse.group/tos that you object to?

    If someone posts erroneous information on Fortran Discourse, it is certainly allowed to point
    out the error.

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  • From Thomas Koenig@21:1/5 to Beliavsky on Sun Feb 13 20:40:35 2022
    Beliavsky <beliavsky@aol.com> schrieb:

    Few young people use Usenet, and older people die. Also,
    Fortran Discourse is now a better forum with more activity and
    code formatting.

    "Better" is debatable.

    Unless they have changed their requirement for "welcoming" language,
    I am not joining.

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  • From jfh@21:1/5 to Ron Shepard on Sun Feb 13 14:28:58 2022
    On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 6:42:35 AM UTC+13, Ron Shepard wrote:
    On 2/13/22 4:05 AM, Arjen Markus wrote:
    But note that about half a year ago, the clf newgroup was banned by Google altogether, because of the spam that was reported!
    What exactly does it mean that clf was banned by Google? Does that mean
    that clf can no longer be read through google, or that it is no longer possible to post through google, or what?

    I have noticed that clf discussions have mostly tapered off in the last
    few months. Maybe that ban, whatever its consequences, was the reason?

    SPAM postings, particularly from new domains, are more an issue of the
    NNTP news server than they are for the reader software on your computer.
    I'm seeing about one SPAM post per day in clf through forteinc.com,
    which is cheap but not free. That's one too many, but it is not so bad
    that it overwhelms the actual fortran posts that I do see here, so I am tolerating it so far.

    I do admit that I miss the old days in the 1990s, when clf and sci.math.num-analysis groups were both on topic and more active. There
    were many cross-posts, as many of the participants were, like me,
    typically interested in both areas. As others have mentioned, that
    latter group was taken over a decade ago almost entirely by SPAM,
    probably never to recover.

    $.02 -Ron Shepard

    I use Google Groups because I couldn't get other news servers to work; my 2 problems with it are (1) it lets you report an abusive group but I don't know how to report an abusive posting in an otherwise good group, such as spam in c.l.f; (2) when I
    first click on a group I am told when I joined that group, but much more useful information would be the date of its latest message.

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  • From Beliavsky@21:1/5 to jfh on Sun Feb 13 14:39:51 2022
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 5:29:01 PM UTC-5, jfh wrote:
    I use Google Groups because I couldn't get other news servers to work; my 2 problems with it are (1) it lets you report an abusive group but I don't know how to report an abusive posting in an otherwise good group, such as spam in c.l.f;

    Once you click on a thread, at the top there is an octagon-shaped icon with an exclamation point. Click on that to report spam or other abuse.

    See the "Report a conversation" section at https://support.google.com/groups/answer/81275?hl=en .

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  • From jfh@21:1/5 to Ron Shepard on Sun Feb 13 14:20:35 2022
    On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 6:42:35 AM UTC+13, Ron Shepard wrote:
    On 2/13/22 4:05 AM, Arjen Markus wrote:
    But note that about half a year ago, the clf newgroup was banned by Google altogether, because of the spam that was reported!
    What exactly does it mean that clf was banned by Google? Does that mean
    that clf can no longer be read through google, or that it is no longer possible to post through google, or what?

    I have noticed that clf discussions have mostly tapered off in the last
    few months. Maybe that ban, whatever its consequences, was the reason?

    SPAM postings, particularly from new domains, are more an issue of the
    NNTP news server than they are for the reader software on your computer.
    I'm seeing about one SPAM post per day in clf through forteinc.com,
    which is cheap but not free. That's one too many, but it is not so bad
    that it overwhelms the actual fortran posts that I do see here, so I am tolerating it so far.

    I do admit that I miss the old days in the 1990s, when clf and sci.math.num-analysis groups were both on topic and more active. There
    were many cross-posts, as many of the participants were, like me,
    typically interested in both areas. As others have mentioned, that
    latter group was taken over a decade ago almost entirely by SPAM,
    probably never to recover.

    $.02 -Ron Shepard

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  • From Thomas Koenig@21:1/5 to Beliavsky on Mon Feb 14 07:03:05 2022
    Beliavsky <beliavsky@aol.com> schrieb:
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 3:40:38 PM UTC-5, Thomas Koenig wrote:
    Beliavsky <beli...@aol.com> schrieb:
    Few young people use Usenet, and older people die. Also,
    Fortran Discourse is now a better forum with more activity and
    code formatting.
    "Better" is debatable.

    Unless they have changed their requirement for "welcoming" language,
    I am not joining.

    Could you explain your objection a bit?

    To reiterate something I've written before: If someonde demands
    "welcoming, inclusive" language of me, I fell neither welcome
    nor included. This was in the code of conduct the last time
    I checked.

    _Prescribing_ a certain mode of speech (instead of trying to
    moderate excesses) is what too many people and organizations try
    to do these days, in all manners of discourse.

    I don't like it, and I will not submit to such rules if I can
    avoid it at all.

    The presentation of the initiators made it pretty clear that this
    code of conduct is very central to them, so it is unlikely to
    be changed in a way that would be acceptable to me. If it is,
    please let me know.

    In the past, when comp.lang.fortran was more active,
    there was at least one poster who was often abusive,

    Certainly. My killfile solved that for me. (I have one member
    of J3 in my killfile, and I certainly don't mean Steve Lionel :-)

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  • From Arjen Markus@21:1/5 to Ron Shepard on Sun Feb 13 23:14:45 2022
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 6:42:35 PM UTC+1, Ron Shepard wrote:
    On 2/13/22 4:05 AM, Arjen Markus wrote:
    But note that about half a year ago, the clf newgroup was banned by Google altogether, because of the spam that was reported!
    What exactly does it mean that clf was banned by Google? Does that mean
    that clf can no longer be read through google, or that it is no longer possible to post through google, or what?

    This happened early june last year (I reported it, not quite sure anymore how and where, and was interviewed, 15 minutes of fame, I suppose ;)) by The Register about it. It happened to several newsgroups at the time. clf was simply inaccessible from
    within Google groups and that remained so for a couple of days with the message that it was due to spam.

    Regards,

    Arjen

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  • From Spiros Bousbouras@21:1/5 to jfh on Mon Feb 14 13:34:58 2022
    On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 14:28:58 -0800 (PST)
    jfh <harperjf2@gmail.com> wrote:
    I use Google Groups because I couldn't get other news servers to work;

    For me news.aioe.org , news.eternal-september.org and news2.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de work fine ; last one is read only. If you want to look into whatever issues you have with newsservers , you can discuss it in some newsgroup. For newsreaders news.software.readers is appropriate. I'm not sure if one exists for server issues but you can use comp.misc for
    a start and ask them to crosspost any replies to any newsgroup which may be more appropriate.

    Regarding spam , looking back up to 2021-11-02 I don't see a single spam post on this group. Some other groups have plenty. sci.math.num-analysis only
    seems to have spam apart from the occasional conference announcement. It has been months or years since I last saw spam which did not come from googlegroups.

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  • From Ron Shepard@21:1/5 to Beliavsky on Mon Feb 14 12:20:57 2022
    On 2/13/22 2:24 PM, Beliavsky wrote:
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 12:42:35 PM UTC-5, Ron Shepard wrote:
    On 2/13/22 4:05 AM, Arjen Markus wrote:
    But note that about half a year ago, the clf newgroup was banned by Google altogether, because of the spam that was reported!
    What exactly does it mean that clf was banned by Google? Does that mean
    that clf can no longer be read through google, or that it is no longer
    possible to post through google, or what?

    I have noticed that clf discussions have mostly tapered off in the last
    few months. Maybe that ban, whatever its consequences, was the reason?

    Few young people use Usenet, and older people die. Also, Fortran Discourse is now a better forum with more activity and code formatting. Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/fortran/ is pretty active. But there's good stuff here too, and we should keep it
    that way.

    I do follow the fortran discourse discussions, and I have even posted a
    few things there. However, I find the interface awkward. For example, I
    would like to be able to log in and view just the new posts since my
    previous login, the way that clf works, but so far I don't see how to do
    that. Except for that, it does appear to be active in the sense that
    there are several posts per day. Another difference is that posts seem
    to disappear there, so it is sometimes difficult to locate something
    from a few weeks ago. In contrast, this clf newsgroup has posts that
    date back decades, and sometimes recent replies to those old posts even
    show up, probably because someone did not notice the original post date.

    So far, it seems most of the postings there are from newbies. Many are
    asking how to do something in fortran that they know how to do in
    another language, such a python. Many are asking why they can't use the
    exact same syntax as they do in another language. If it is to remain a
    popular forum, I guess those kinds of posts must be tolerated. And there
    are some sophisticated questions too, so there is a mix.

    Why on earth would anyone ban a J3 member?

    In any case, I hope clf manages to survive, google bans and all.

    $.02 -Ron Shepard

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  • From Thomas Koenig@21:1/5 to Ron Shepard on Mon Feb 14 20:38:42 2022
    Ron Shepard <nospam@nowhere.org> schrieb:

    Why on earth would anyone ban a J3 member?

    Send me your e-mail address, and I'll tell you more :-)

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  • From pehache@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 15 09:49:55 2022
    Le 12/02/2022 à 22:45, Beliavsky a écrit :
    Viewing c.l.f. via https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.fortran I see lots of spam. There are probably better ways of accessing the forum, but Google Groups does not make you install anything and is convenient. I will make a point of notifying Google
    of spam daily, and I hope others do too, so that the venerable comp.lang.fortran is not overrun, as https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.python and https://groups.google.com/g/sci.math.num-analysis have been.

    For those who want to access newsgroups through the web and wish a
    better service than Google Groups, they may give a try to

    http://news2.nemoweb.net/

    Yes the interface is in french, and no it is not perfect. But overall
    (much) better than GG IMO. At least on a computer (almost not usable on
    the small screen of a smartphone or even a tablet)

    Beware : there is no httpS, only http, so pay attention to use a unique password here.

    --
    "...sois ouvert aux idées des autres pour peu qu'elles aillent dans le
    même sens que les tiennes.", ST sur fr.bio.medecine
    ST passe le mur du çon : <j3nn2hFmqj7U1@mid.individual.net>

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  • From Thomas Koenig@21:1/5 to Ron Shepard on Sat Feb 19 09:53:17 2022
    Ron Shepard <nospam@nowhere.org> schrieb:

    Why on earth would anyone ban a J3 member?

    Maybe a bit more explanation...

    SbegenaSna vf n W3 zrzore, juvpu V sbhaq bhg nsgre V xvyysvyrq uvz.

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  • From Ron Shepard@21:1/5 to Thomas Koenig on Sat Feb 19 10:06:06 2022
    On 2/19/22 3:53 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
    Ron Shepard <nospam@nowhere.org> schrieb:

    Why on earth would anyone ban a J3 member?

    Maybe a bit more explanation...

    SbegenaSna vf n W3 zrzore, juvpu V sbhaq bhg nsgre V xvyysvyrq uvz.

    I guess the next question is why would a J3 member post anonymously and
    conceal his identity and his membership?

    I have considered adding him to my killfile too, but I never actually
    did it, I have just tolerated his posts. Actually, I've only rarely
    added actual people to my killfile list over the decades, even those
    posting anonymously. Most of my entries have obviously been fake
    accounts selling prescription drugs online, political conspiracy
    theories, or textbook solution manuals. CLF does have a few of those
    right now, but as I said previously, they only appear rarely through my
    news server. Others must be reporting them as spammers because they
    usually don't post more than once.

    As far as J3 members, I do miss Richard Maine's insightful posts here in
    CLF.

    Speaking of spam, I developed an iterative method to compute
    eigenvectors back in the 1990s. I called it the subspace projected
    approximate matrix method, which has the acronym SPAM. I thought it was
    cute at the time, but in hindsight it has caused me problems over the
    years because legitimate emails with that in the title sometimes get
    directed automatically into my junk email folder. Spam back then was
    not the problem that it has become since.

    $.02 -Ron Shepard

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  • From Thomas Koenig@21:1/5 to Ron Shepard on Sat Feb 19 17:02:29 2022
    Ron Shepard <nospam@nowhere.org> schrieb:

    Speaking of spam, I developed an iterative method to compute
    eigenvectors back in the 1990s. I called it the subspace projected approximate matrix method, which has the acronym SPAM. I thought it was
    cute at the time, but in hindsight it has caused me problems over the
    years because legitimate emails with that in the title sometimes get
    directed automatically into my junk email folder. Spam back then was
    not the problem that it has become since.

    I well remember the early spam - Cantor & Siegel, Sanford Wallace.
    For a time, I bounced every spam via an AGIS domain to AGIS.

    Even at the time, it was clear that there was a clear asymmetry
    between the sender and the receiver of spam.

    Regarding unfortunate names - there is a rather nice
    digital circuit simulator called "Digital" (to be found at https://github.com/hneemann/Digital ). Almost un-googable
    with that name.

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