• Toward Modern Fortran Tooling and a Thriving Developer Community

    From Beliavsky@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 17 15:57:52 2021
    The Fortran-lang group has written a paper summarizing their efforts, such as a Fortran standard library, the Fortran Package Manager, Fortran Discourse, and LFortran.

    https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.07382
    Toward Modern Fortran Tooling and a Thriving Developer Community
    Milan Curcic, Ondřej Čertík, Brad Richardson, Sebastian Ehlert, Laurence Kedward, Arjen Markus, Ivan Pribec, Jérémie Vandenplas
    Fortran is the oldest high-level programming language that remains in use today and is one of the dominant languages used for compute-intensive scientific and engineering applications. However, Fortran has not kept up with the modern software development
    practices and tooling in the internet era. As a consequence, the Fortran developer experience has diminished. Specifically, lack of a rich general-purpose library ecosystem, modern tools for building and packaging Fortran libraries and applications, and
    online learning resources, has made it difficult for Fortran to attract and retain new users. To address this problem, an open source community has formed on GitHub in 2019 and began to work on the initial set of core tools: a standard library, a build
    system and package manager, and a community-curated website for Fortran. In this paper we report on the progress to date and outline the next steps.
    Comments: Submitted to ACM Fortran Forum

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  • From Gary Scott@21:1/5 to Beliavsky on Fri Sep 17 20:36:55 2021
    On 9/17/2021 5:57 PM, Beliavsky wrote:
    The Fortran-lang group has written a paper summarizing their efforts, such as a Fortran standard library, the Fortran Package Manager, Fortran Discourse, and LFortran.

    https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.07382
    Toward Modern Fortran Tooling and a Thriving Developer Community
    Milan Curcic, Ondřej Čertík, Brad Richardson, Sebastian Ehlert, Laurence Kedward, Arjen Markus, Ivan Pribec, Jérémie Vandenplas
    Fortran is the oldest high-level programming language that remains in use today and is one of the dominant languages used for compute-intensive scientific and engineering applications. However, Fortran has not kept up with the modern software
    development practices and tooling in the internet era. As a consequence, the Fortran developer experience has diminished. Specifically, lack of a rich general-purpose library ecosystem, modern tools for building and packaging Fortran libraries and
    applications, and online learning resources, has made it difficult for Fortran to attract and retain new users. To address this problem, an open source community has formed on GitHub in 2019 and began to work on the initial set of core tools: a standard
    library, a build system and package manager, and a community-curated website for Fortran. In this paper we report on the progress to date and outline the next steps.
    Comments: Submitted to ACM Fortran Forum


    Well, Fortran fits perfectly well in the worlds most popular development environment MS Visual Studio. Doesn't help unix/linux weenies, I know.

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  • From Thomas Koenig@21:1/5 to Gary Scott on Sat Sep 18 07:40:24 2021
    Gary Scott <garylscott@sbcglobal.net> schrieb:
    On 9/17/2021 5:57 PM, Beliavsky wrote:
    The Fortran-lang group has written a paper summarizing their efforts, such as a Fortran standard library, the Fortran Package Manager, Fortran Discourse, and LFortran.

    https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.07382
    Toward Modern Fortran Tooling and a Thriving Developer Community
    Milan Curcic, Ondřej Čertík, Brad Richardson, Sebastian Ehlert, Laurence Kedward, Arjen Markus, Ivan Pribec, Jérémie Vandenplas
    Fortran is the oldest high-level programming language that remains in use today and is one of the dominant languages used for compute-intensive scientific and engineering applications. However, Fortran has not kept up with the modern software
    development practices and tooling in the internet era. As a consequence, the Fortran developer experience has diminished. Specifically, lack of a rich general-purpose library ecosystem, modern tools for building and packaging Fortran libraries and
    applications, and online learning resources, has made it difficult for Fortran to attract and retain new users. To address this problem, an open source community has formed on GitHub in 2019 and began to work on the initial set of core tools: a standard
    library, a build system and package manager, and a community-curated website for Fortran. In this paper we report on the progress to date and outline the next steps.
    Comments: Submitted to ACM Fortran Forum


    Well, Fortran fits perfectly well in the worlds most popular development environment MS Visual Studio. Doesn't help unix/linux weenies, I know.

    Thanks, it was nice reading your posts.

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  • From Gary Scott@21:1/5 to Thomas Koenig on Sat Sep 18 10:23:33 2021
    On 9/18/2021 2:40 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
    Gary Scott <garylscott@sbcglobal.net> schrieb:
    On 9/17/2021 5:57 PM, Beliavsky wrote:
    The Fortran-lang group has written a paper summarizing their efforts, such as a Fortran standard library, the Fortran Package Manager, Fortran Discourse, and LFortran.

    https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.07382
    Toward Modern Fortran Tooling and a Thriving Developer Community
    Milan Curcic, Ondřej Čertík, Brad Richardson, Sebastian Ehlert, Laurence Kedward, Arjen Markus, Ivan Pribec, Jérémie Vandenplas
    Fortran is the oldest high-level programming language that remains in use today and is one of the dominant languages used for compute-intensive scientific and engineering applications. However, Fortran has not kept up with the modern software
    development practices and tooling in the internet era. As a consequence, the Fortran developer experience has diminished. Specifically, lack of a rich general-purpose library ecosystem, modern tools for building and packaging Fortran libraries and
    applications, and online learning resources, has made it difficult for Fortran to attract and retain new users. To address this problem, an open source community has formed on GitHub in 2019 and began to work on the initial set of core tools: a standard
    library, a build system and package manager, and a community-curated website for Fortran. In this paper we report on the progress to date and outline the next steps.
    Comments: Submitted to ACM Fortran Forum


    Well, Fortran fits perfectly well in the worlds most popular development
    environment MS Visual Studio. Doesn't help unix/linux weenies, I know.

    Thanks, it was nice reading your posts.

    Well, it wasn't intended as rude, only intended to clarify that it can
    fit in perfectly well with any development environment. It doesnt have
    to have one all its very own.

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  • From Gary Scott@21:1/5 to Gary Scott on Sat Sep 18 10:43:04 2021
    On 9/18/2021 10:23 AM, Gary Scott wrote:
    On 9/18/2021 2:40 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
    Gary Scott <garylscott@sbcglobal.net> schrieb:
    On 9/17/2021 5:57 PM, Beliavsky wrote:
    snip

    Well, Fortran fits perfectly well in the worlds most popular development >>> environment MS Visual Studio.  Doesn't help unix/linux weenies, I know.

    Thanks, it was nice reading your posts.

    Well, it wasn't intended as rude, only intended to clarify that it can
    fit in perfectly well with any development environment.  It doesnt have
    to have one all its very own.

    Development environments should be significantly language independent
    and highly tailorable. My preference is for a strong profiling
    mechanism. Historically, this was a text based command language used to specify the target language and other personalized options. If it needs
    to be GUI and/or register based nowadays, sobeit. I still prefer the
    older mechanism. VS is one that is highly tailorable, but way way unnecessarily difficult to do so, and extremely prone to breaking the
    tailoring with each update. That is maddening.

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  • From Thomas Jahns@21:1/5 to Beliavsky on Thu Sep 30 14:56:37 2021
    On 9/18/21 12:57 AM, Beliavsky wrote:
    The Fortran-lang group has written a paper summarizing their efforts, such as a Fortran standard library, the Fortran Package Manager, Fortran Discourse, and LFortran.

    In what way is a cross-language package manager like Spack <https://spack.io/about/>
    not vastly superior to anything specific to the Fortran language?

    Thomas

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  • From FortranFan@21:1/5 to Thomas Jahns on Sun Oct 3 08:37:59 2021
    On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 8:56:40 AM UTC-4, Thomas Jahns wrote:
    ..
    In what way is a cross-language package manager like Spack <https://spack.io/about/>
    not vastly superior to anything specific to the Fortran language? ..

    Re: "in what way",
    1) Fortran has program units, especially with MODULEs and SUBMODULEs, etc., that have certain characteristics to them that are overlooked by others.
    2) Fortran has a list of build toolchains - processors/compilers, etc. - that few can match and it is mostly only paralleled by one other paradigm (C++),
    3) Fortran has a legacy that is rich and varied and which it continues to support as a matter of principle (just one example: 2 source forms)

    Given such considerations, a package manager specific to Fortran that places at the forefront Fortran's own needs and considerations makes sense.

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