Hello Gophersphere,
I recently created this:
gopher://gopher.viste.fr/1/ogup
After a few days of collecting data, I see that there are around 400
gopher servers in the world. Last time I counted (few years ago), the gopherspace was totaling some 100 online servers.
Am I confused, or is the gopherspace expanding?
Mateusz
Mateusz Viste <mateusz@wont.tell> wrote:
After a few days of collecting data, I see that there are around 400
gopher servers in the world. Last time I counted (few years ago), the
gopherspace was totaling some 100 online servers.
Am I confused, or is the gopherspace expanding?
I think the degree to which the Web has been gamed, monetized, and monitored is feeding a desire for a "simpler" protocol which has not been so abused.
So it wouldn't surprise me if there is a resurgence of interest in Gopher.
Bob Alberti <alberti@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
Mateusz Viste <mateusz@wont.tell> wrote:
After a few days of collecting data, I see that there are around 400
gopher servers in the world. Last time I counted (few years ago), the
gopherspace was totaling some 100 online servers.
Am I confused, or is the gopherspace expanding?
I think the degree to which the Web has been gamed, monetized, and monitored
is feeding a desire for a "simpler" protocol which has not been so abused. So it wouldn't surprise me if there is a resurgence of interest in Gopher.
Why isn't that happening for Usenet as well?
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
Why isn't that happening for Usenet as well?After a few days of collecting data, I see that there are around 400
gopher servers in the world. Last time I counted (few years ago), the
gopherspace was totaling some 100 online servers.
Am I confused, or is the gopherspace expanding?
I think the degree to which the Web has been gamed, monetized, and monitored
is feeding a desire for a "simpler" protocol which has not been so abused. >> > So it wouldn't surprise me if there is a resurgence of interest in Gopher. >>
Good question. I always liked the simplicity of Usenet.
After a few days of collecting data, I see that there are around
400 gopher servers in the world. Last time I counted (few years
ago), the gopherspace was totaling some 100 online servers.
Am I confused, or is the gopherspace expanding?
I think the degree to which the Web has been gamed, monetized, and
monitored is feeding a desire for a "simpler" protocol which has not
been so abused. So it wouldn't surprise me if there is a resurgence
of interest in Gopher.
Why isn't that happening for Usenet as well?
Good question. I always liked the simplicity of Usenet.
Wait... detecting a bump in usenet...
Nevermind, just some anomalous background noise.
<meta4 resumes deep slumber>
Bob Alberti <alberti@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
Mateusz Viste <mateusz@wont.tell> wrote:
After a few days of collecting data, I see that there are around 400
gopher servers in the world. Last time I counted (few years ago), the
gopherspace was totaling some 100 online servers.
Am I confused, or is the gopherspace expanding?
I think the degree to which the Web has been gamed, monetized, and monitored >> is feeding a desire for a "simpler" protocol which has not been so abused. >> So it wouldn't surprise me if there is a resurgence of interest in Gopher.
Why isn't that happening for Usenet as well?
On 2019-02-20, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
Bob Alberti <alberti@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:Actually, I've read that Usenet is not doing that bad. It's just that binaries attract more people than text newsgroups like this one we're
Mateusz Viste <mateusz@wont.tell> wrote:
After a few days of collecting data, I see that there are around 400
gopher servers in the world. Last time I counted (few years ago), the
gopherspace was totaling some 100 online servers.
Am I confused, or is the gopherspace expanding?
I think the degree to which the Web has been gamed, monetized, and
monitored is feeding a desire for a "simpler" protocol which has not
been so abused. So it wouldn't surprise me if there is a resurgence of
interest in Gopher.
Why isn't that happening for Usenet as well?
posting to.
Good question. I always liked the simplicity of Usenet.
Mats wrote:
Good question. I always liked the simplicity of Usenet.
I can't speak for others, but I came to Usenet specifically because
I wanted to engage in some good conversation but wanted to avoid
all the ad-driven mess of the Web along with all the shouting and
so forth.
I miss the graphics. I love eye candy, but ignoring unlikeables is
much easier and I don't feel what I can only describe as the
"cognitive weight" of dealing with posts online.
Bringing this back to Gopher, I think what will help is the
building of apps that run on top of the Gopher protocol that
people will like. For example, an app that perhaps uses the
Gopher protocol to reach a particular config file that then
lists Gopher locations for images. The app then displays a
slideshow or presentation.
One other big advantage of Usenet is that you only need to connect
with one server, with one set of log-in details, instead of one for
each of countless web forums covering different topics, for which
it isn't practical to regularly check very many for new topics of
interest. All of which are also at risk of going down temporarily
or forever with no option to switch to another server and just pick
up where you left off as with Usenet.
That's one advantage not shared with Gopher, but then with Gopher
not requiring log-ins, it's less of an issue.
Sounds like a Gopher client with an Add-Ons system. The risk
there is that someone will decide to set up their whole site as
a set of interconnecting slideshows just so that it looks pretty,
and Gopher clients that don't have the Add-On won't be able to view
it at all. In other words exactly what happened with Java and Flash
Add-Ons for the web.
But I don't think that would really happen, because most people
wanting to abuse it that way would have gone straight to the web in
the first place. Instead it would be just another fun play thing,
left alone in its own little corner, like Gohper is today as a whole
(maybe that's why it's expanding while Usenet is shrinking, Usenet
is just utilitarian, not "fun" - I don't know, I'm genuinely curious
about the question).
P.S. My personal preference is for well written HTML-only (no
scripts, little or no CSS) webpages, rather than Gopher. These
offer all the advantages of Gopher listed above, while adding
many things that I like about HTML. Unfortunately most web
designers (and all the commercial ones) no longer design web
pages this way. Using Gopher just forces designers into it, and
thereby creates an environment where users know that they won't
have to face the excesses of the modern web.
Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
One other big advantage of Usenet is that you only need to connect
with one server, with one set of log-in details, instead of one for
each of countless web forums covering different topics, for which
it isn't practical to regularly check very many for new topics of
interest. All of which are also at risk of going down temporarily
or forever with no option to switch to another server and just pick
up where you left off as with Usenet.
That's one advantage not shared with Gopher, but then with Gopher
not requiring log-ins, it's less of an issue.
Very roughly speaking, I think Gopher mimics this by providing
links to other gopher sites so that accessing one site allows
traversal to others rather seamlessly.
I don't think I've ever used Gopher for accessing forums, however,
so Usenet still wins in the end, so to speak.
Sounds like a Gopher client with an Add-Ons system. The risk
there is that someone will decide to set up their whole site as
a set of interconnecting slideshows just so that it looks pretty,
and Gopher clients that don't have the Add-On won't be able to view
it at all. In other words exactly what happened with Java and Flash
Add-Ons for the web.
I suppose it could be Gopher with an Add-Ons system, but it could
also be just a purpose-specific client. I think what would save
Gopher from the scenario described above is a sense of development
culture. That is, making sure that "Gopher Apps" were not for
general purpose use. The slideshow idea makes sense because it
is a convenient way to share images via Gopher without downloading
each one individually by the user. This is a function that doesn't
currently exist (as far as I know), so it enhances the use of
Gopher without becoming the general purpose delivery system that
caused the browser to be such a problem.
But I don't think that would really happen, because most people
wanting to abuse it that way would have gone straight to the web in
the first place. Instead it would be just another fun play thing,
left alone in its own little corner, like Gohper is today as a whole
(maybe that's why it's expanding while Usenet is shrinking, Usenet
is just utilitarian, not "fun" - I don't know, I'm genuinely curious
about the question).
I actually like Usenet. I wouldn't call it "fun" per se, but so far
it fulfills my requirements for satisfying that itch for conversation
without the hassle of the modern web.
P.S. My personal preference is for well written HTML-only (no
scripts, little or no CSS) webpages, rather than Gopher. These
offer all the advantages of Gopher listed above, while adding
many things that I like about HTML. Unfortunately most web
designers (and all the commercial ones) no longer design web
pages this way. Using Gopher just forces designers into it, and
thereby creates an environment where users know that they won't
have to face the excesses of the modern web.
Part of me wishes that HTML-as-document and HTML-as-app split into
two at some early point in history. That way there might have been
some more thought put into things before the web became that problem
that it is (well, by "The Web" I of course refer to particular sites
and the extensive user-tracking systems. There are plenty of
reasonable places on the Internet. It is just becoming a bit more
crowded with the other stuff.)
Gopher is for quick, menu-driven, anonymous file download or display (special-purpose ftp)
HTTP is a request for and response with stateless html pages
(documents) and unsecured files
Usenet is for topic-based mass-mailing (bulletin boards) -
SMTP is for person-to-person messaging (emails).
Each function has a protocol suited to it and you chose a server-client
pair depending on your proposed usage.
Now, we see SMTP often being (very wastefully) used as a Usenet
replacement. We also see HTTP being used for, well, EVERYTHING
including stateful traffic for which it is completely unsuited -
Massive overhead to track sessions that were never intended its design.
Tim Berner-Lee should be a footnote in the computer world - present
HTTP/HTML protocol usage bare no resemblance to his excellent concept.
I said it before - If you want to slap "add-ons" onto Gopher, do the
universe a favor and write a efficient server/client pair, get a new port number assigned to it, and call it Frank or something unique. Please use Gopher for its basic use or just move on. Gopher is just Gopher and if it doesn't serve your purposes as is, create something new across the
board - it's not as hard as you might think.
It is sad - the internet was reshaped into the web, the web was
reshaped into Google, and now what was a network of networks is only
a pipe to broadcast Youtube to billions of mindless consumers. I
though we already created television (a far more efficient design for one-to-many basically one-way transmissions)! The network becomes
yet another broadcast conduit. LONG LIVE TELNET!
Bob Alberti _____________________ wrote:
Mateusz Viste ____________________ wrote:
After a few days of collecting data, I see that there are around 400
gopher servers in the world. Last time I counted (few years ago), the
gopherspace was totaling some 100 online servers.
Am I confused, or is the gopherspace expanding?
I think the degree to which the Web has been gamed, monetized, and monitored
is feeding a desire for a "simpler" protocol which has not been so abused. So it wouldn't surprise me if there is a resurgence of interest in Gopher.
Why isn't that happening for Usenet as well?
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
Because of ISP's going nuts about piracy. Piracy is bad, but Usenet File Sharing popularity is dropping because everyone is realizing how bad Piracy is, so that's why we have Netflix. Also now everyone is using Reddit, Slashdot, and Fark to discussstuff going on, and Telnet's and Usenet's good ole forms of discussion is coming into the hands of Reddit. I hope this gives you a basic understanding.
On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, awsomecat1234321@gmail.com wrote:stuff going on, and Telnet's and Usenet's good ole forms of discussion is coming into the hands of Reddit. I hope this gives you a basic understanding.
Because of ISP's going nuts about piracy. Piracy is bad, but Usenet File Sharing popularity is dropping because everyone is realizing how bad Piracy is, so that's why we have Netflix. Also now everyone is using Reddit, Slashdot, and Fark to discuss
Your undestanding of things is invalid.
/
Bud
/
a1=S0
b1=[1..2,'L0L']
a2=2*a1
a3=S1.4#b1
a4=(a2,a3)
a5=64*a4
So just please take my advice.
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 6:33:36 AM UTC-5, Bud Spencer wrote:stuff going on, and Telnet's and Usenet's good ole forms of discussion is coming into the hands of Reddit. I hope this gives you a basic understanding.
On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, awsomecat1234321@gmail.com wrote:
Because of ISP's going nuts about piracy. Piracy is bad, but Usenet File Sharing popularity is dropping because everyone is realizing how bad Piracy is, so that's why we have Netflix. Also now everyone is using Reddit, Slashdot, and Fark to discuss
Your undestanding of things is invalid.
/
Bud
/
But if you go all around Google Groups' Usenet Archive you will see that there are a bunch of people going "I want this movie!" all over the place, also; Netflix and Soundcloud are ending the "Pirate" area. So just please take my advice.
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 6:33:36 AM UTC-5, Bud Spencer wrote:
On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, awsomecat1234321@gmail.com wrote:
Because of ISP's going nuts about piracy. Piracy is bad, but
Usenet File Sharing popularity is dropping because everyone
is realizing how bad Piracy is, so that's why we have Netflix.
Also now everyone is using Reddit, Slashdot, and Fark to
discuss stuff going on, and Telnet's and Usenet's good ole
forms of discussion is coming into the hands of Reddit. I hope
this gives you a basic understanding.
Your undestanding of things is invalid.
But if you go all around Google Groups' Usenet Archive you will
see that there are a bunch of people going "I want this movie!"
all over the place, also; Netflix and Soundcloud are ending the
"Pirate" area. So just please take my advice.
My query about why Usenet wasn't seeing a resurgence akin to Gopher
was obviously not concerning the binary groups. Gopher's boom is
apparantly by virtue of its text-only presentation and lack of commercialisation compared to the web. I don't think anyone cares
much for it as a particular method of sharing large binary files,
nor should they have reason to.
With regard to Usenet's discussion groups (the protocol's intended
purpose), they share similar characteristics (at least if you're not
viewing them with some horrible Google interface that doesn't even
wrap your lines for you). So regardless of the fact that there are commercialised, inefficient, unstandardised, alternatives on the web,
I might have hoped that the same crowd that is attracted to Gopher
would come over to Usenet and boost its numbers which have been
falling for years.
Dying groups that I've been following are only looking more dead now,
and references to Usenet on Gopher are few and far between, so it
appears to me that this isn't happening. The fact of Reddit's
existance does not answer my question, as it presents none of the
important characteristics (ignoring the users themselves, who I can't
compare because I hardly ever view Reddit myself) that I see shared
between Gopher and Usenet. Far more so with Netflix, and probably
whatever Soundcloud is.
Hello Gophersphere,
I recently created this:
gopher://gopher.viste.fr/1/ogup
After a few days of collecting data, I see that there are around 400
gopher servers in the world. Last time I counted (few years ago), the gopherspace was totaling some 100 online servers.
Am I confused, or is the gopherspace expanding?
Mateusz
--
gopher://gopher.viste.fr
On Mon, 2 Mar 2020 15:05:46 -0800 (PST)stuff going on, and Telnet's and Usenet's good ole forms of discussion is coming into the hands of Reddit. I hope this gives you a basic understanding.
awsomecat1234321@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 6:33:36 AM UTC-5, Bud Spencer wrote:
On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, awsomecat1234321@gmail.com wrote:
Because of ISP's going nuts about piracy. Piracy is bad, but Usenet File Sharing popularity is dropping because everyone is realizing how bad Piracy is, so that's why we have Netflix. Also now everyone is using Reddit, Slashdot, and Fark to discuss
model is obsolete. Why people isn't asking for movies on Usenet anymore is probably because it's popularity have declined and piracy have moved into harder to trace places where one does not risk getting caught as easy.
Your undestanding of things is invalid.
/
Bud
/
But if you go all around Google Groups' Usenet Archive you will see that there are a bunch of people going "I want this movie!" all over the place, also; Netflix and Soundcloud are ending the "Pirate" area. So just please take my advice.
I don't know about Soundcloud's market share but Netflix and Spotify offer convenient ways of getting stuff that is legal and thus appeal to a lot of people. Old movie houses are blaming everything on piracy and don't want to admit that their business
But I don't know what this have to do with gopher?
My friends who have small children love it because it keeps the kids occupied with cartoons.
These days, it's either redbox or the library for movies more often than not.
Never head of Redbox before and initial chekc ended up with:
403 ERROR
The request could not be satisfied.
Request blocked. We can't connect to the server for this app or
website at this time. There might be too much traffic or a
configuration error. Try again later, or contact the app or website
owner.
If you provide content to customers through CloudFront, you can find
steps to troubleshoot and help prevent this error by reviewing the
CloudFront documentation.
Generated by cloudfront (CloudFront)
Request ID: Th9T4gemRBhkPmE4xoXnhtg2kNs3NygbjcsRIAcjREK54uB_x3WpBQ==
---
So I'll never know :)
Nor I need to ...
If you're in the US, Redbox is essentially a DVD rental vending machine you can
find in a lot of grocery stores, gas stations, pharmacies. With the
decline of movie rental *stores*, it's filled a niche, particularly in
areas where Internet service is too slow to stream well.
On Wed, 11 Mar 2020, Daniel wrote:
My friends who have small children love it because it keeps the kids
occupied with cartoons.
Exactly what it's for. To program ... earlier the better. Just like zombie-box and is for.
This netflix thing is gross propaganda spitting tool to control people's views and spread the nonsense.
Your mentioned books are and will be best way to enjoy stories.
These days, it's either redbox or the library for movies more often
than not.
Never head of Redbox before and initial chekc ended up with:
403 ERROR
The request could not be satisfied.
Request blocked. We can't connect to the server for this app or website
at this time. There might be too much traffic or a configuration error.
Try again later, or contact the app or website owner.
If you provide content to customers through CloudFront, you can find
steps to troubleshoot and help prevent this error by reviewing the
CloudFront documentation.
Generated by cloudfront (CloudFront)
Request ID: Th9T4gemRBhkPmE4xoXnhtg2kNs3NygbjcsRIAcjREK54uB_x3WpBQ==
---
So I'll never know :)
Not sure why redbox didn't come up for you, but if you're serious..
They are kiosks where you can rent movies and gives you an option to purchase them too.
They are all over the place.
Dying groups that I've been following are only looking more dead now,
and references to Usenet on Gopher are few and far between, so it
appears to me that this isn't happening. The fact of Reddit's
existance does not answer my question, as it presents none of the
important characteristics (ignoring the users themselves, who I can't
compare because I hardly ever view Reddit myself) that I see shared
between Gopher and Usenet. Far more so with Netflix, and probably
whatever Soundcloud is.
Usenet and Gopher remain relevant for those who have always loved it.
The fact that they're not popular with the masses is potentially
irrelevant.
RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:
Usenet and Gopher remain relevant for those who have always loved it.
The fact that they're not popular with the masses is potentially
irrelevant.
Sometimes it's a feature. Although against the mandate of Social Media, a small group sharing high-quality posts is perfectly fine with me. The bottom 1% of a million people is too much ugliness for me.
On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 6:33:36 AM UTC-5, Bud Spencer wrote:
On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, awsomecat1234321@gmail.com wrote:
Because of ISP's going nuts about piracy. Piracy is bad, but
Usenet File Sharing popularity is dropping because everyone is
realizing how bad Piracy is, so that's why we have Netflix. Also
now everyone is using Reddit, Slashdot, and Fark to discuss stuff
going on, and Telnet's and Usenet's good ole forms of discussion
is coming into the hands of Reddit. I hope this gives you a basic understanding.
Your undestanding of things is invalid.
/
Bud
/
a1=S0
b1=[1..2,'L0L']
a2=2*a1
a3=S1.4#b1
a4=(a2,a3)
a5=64*a4
But if you go all around Google Groups' Usenet Archive you will see
that there are a bunch of people going "I want this movie!" all over
the place, also; Netflix and Soundcloud are ending the "Pirate" area.
So just please take my advice.
I doubt piracy will ever end. There will always be a demand for people
who don't want to spend money for content and there will be people who
will do whatever they can to do so.
Also the current trend of increasing web subscriptions for
video-on-demand services is really itching the pirate scratch in me.
Why would I pay $15/month for every media mogul where I want to watch
the latest content from? I can just jump to an indexer and with a decent usenet provider I will be done in no time. Plus, I get the added value
of actually having the content in my hard drive. That's cool if I
want to go without internet when I'm travelling.
So yeah, it's a long winded way of saying that I don't think piracy
ended or will end.
On 2021-11-28, rtr <rtr@nospam.invalid> wrote:
I doubt piracy will ever end. There will always be a demand for
people who don't want to spend money for content and there will be
people who will do whatever they can to do so.
Also the current trend of increasing web subscriptions for
video-on-demand services is really itching the pirate scratch in me.
Why would I pay $15/month for every media mogul where I want to
watch the latest content from? I can just jump to an indexer and
with a decent usenet provider I will be done in no time. Plus, I
get the added value of actually having the content in my hard
drive. That's cool if I want to go without internet when I'm
travelling.
So yeah, it's a long winded way of saying that I don't think piracy
ended or will end.
Agreed on all the line. I would like to add that,
these services are often not keeping the content I
like, or maybe they do but you never know when they'll
remove it.
Having my own private copy is much better.
On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 21:09:51 -0000 (UTC)
Johnatan Duck <pa...@thunder.local> wrote:
On 2021-11-28, rtr <r...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
I doubt piracy will ever end. There will always be a demand for
people who don't want to spend money for content and there will be
people who will do whatever they can to do so.
Also the current trend of increasing web subscriptions for video-on-demand services is really itching the pirate scratch in me.
Why would I pay $15/month for every media mogul where I want to
watch the latest content from? I can just jump to an indexer and
with a decent usenet provider I will be done in no time. Plus, I
get the added value of actually having the content in my hard
drive. That's cool if I want to go without internet when I'm
travelling.
So yeah, it's a long winded way of saying that I don't think piracy
ended or will end.
Agreed on all the line. I would like to add that,
these services are often not keeping the content I
like, or maybe they do but you never know when they'll
remove it.
Having my own private copy is much better.Oh for sure! It does annoy me from time to time whenever a series or
movie that I want to watch isn't on Netflix and I'm just reminded that
it's better to just yank it off somewhere rather than pay for a service
that doesn't even have a complete library of stuff that I want to
watch.
And yes. A private copy is certainly much better, it never made any
sense to me to not have a copy of a media that I wanted to read, watch
or listen to.
--
Give them an inch and they will take a mile.
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