• Proposing a new newsgroup: Internet History

    From Jason Evans@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 24 23:36:12 2020
    XPost: news.groups, alt.folklore.computers

    Hello everyone,

    I am thinking about making a formal proposal for one of two new
    unmoderated groups. The group would either be comp.internet.history or soc.history.internet. I think you can see where these two names could
    possibly overlap.

    The general idea of the new group is to discuss retro internet
    technologies such as IRC, ftp sites, BBSs (telnet and otherwise), MUDS,
    MOOs, and of course Usenet and others. We could also discuss the culture
    that surrounded many of these technologies especially IRC and Usenet as
    they were maturing. Many of use don't consider these technologies to be
    "retro" because we use them everyday and yet interest in them is waning
    and in order for them to continue, fresh interest must be continually be
    added.

    I don't know if anyone could possibly be interested, but the only way to
    find out is to ask. If I get enough positive feedback, I'll write up an official CFD and submit it to the board. I won't do anything if no one is interested.

    JE

    X-posting to: alt.folklore.computers and comp.infosystems.gopher
    I get the feeling that the folks in these groups could be interested in
    this also.

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  • From Daniel@21:1/5 to Jason Evans on Sun Jul 26 19:33:12 2020
    Great idea. I'd be supportive of a moderation option though.

    Jason Evans <jsevans@big-8.org> writes:

    Hello everyone,

    I am thinking about making a formal proposal for one of two new
    unmoderated groups. The group would either be comp.internet.history or soc.history.internet. I think you can see where these two names could possibly overlap.

    The general idea of the new group is to discuss retro internet
    technologies such as IRC, ftp sites, BBSs (telnet and otherwise), MUDS,
    MOOs, and of course Usenet and others. We could also discuss the culture
    that surrounded many of these technologies especially IRC and Usenet as
    they were maturing. Many of use don't consider these technologies to be "retro" because we use them everyday and yet interest in them is waning
    and in order for them to continue, fresh interest must be continually be added.

    I don't know if anyone could possibly be interested, but the only way to
    find out is to ask. If I get enough positive feedback, I'll write up an official CFD and submit it to the board. I won't do anything if no one is interested.

    JE

    X-posting to: alt.folklore.computers and comp.infosystems.gopher
    I get the feeling that the folks in these groups could be interested in
    this also.

    --
    Daniel

    Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world

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  • From drelcott@iceland.freeshell.org@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 27 12:20:20 2020
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    I think that's a great idea!

    - --
    drelcott@sdf.org
    SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org
    PGP Fingerprint: 2A9A 0C67 8C7F 2754 DEA7 39FF FC4E D3CD 8C83 10C7
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  • From Jason Evans@21:1/5 to Daniel on Mon Jul 27 15:50:19 2020
    On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 19:33:12 -0700, Daniel wrote:

    Great idea. I'd be supportive of a moderation option though.


    We had the conversation in news.groups. Basically, alt.folklore.computers
    is an existing active newsgroup that already fits the bill so instead of creating a new newsgroup that might go dead, it's better to join an
    existing group and post there.

    Also, moderation is a pain unless you have a group of people who are
    ready and willing to make it work. There are a lot of dead groups because
    the mods quit, lost their accounts, etc. so nobody can post at all. We
    (the B8MB) can resurrect dead newsgroups by changing the moderator but
    you still need people to take it over if that happens.

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  • From robobox@21:1/5 to Jason Evans on Fri Aug 7 15:01:56 2020
    On 7/24/2020 7:36 PM, Jason Evans wrote:
    The general idea of the new group is to discuss retro internet
    technologies such as IRC, ftp sites, BBSs (telnet and otherwise), MUDS,
    MOOs, and of course Usenet and others.

    IRC and FTP (and other pre-W3 protocols) I could see being a topic of discussion, but BBSes would be... odd. They were never really part of
    the global TCP/IP network until the 2000s and it seems whenever somebody
    brings those up another person screws up what services existed (i.e. "I remember using Archie on Gopher" etc.) and the conversation loses what intelligence it had.

    -robobox

    (Yes, I replied late)

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  • From lkosov@21:1/5 to robobox on Fri Aug 7 21:59:50 2020
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2020, robobox wrote:

    IRC and FTP (and other pre-W3 protocols) I could see being a topic of discussion, but BBSes would be... odd. They were never really part of the global TCP/IP network until the 2000s and it seems whenever somebody brings

    Weren't they? I don't remember any telnet-accessible BBSes per se, other
    than the Freenet system in... Chicago, was it? in the '90s, or at least
    the mid '90s. (Although I guess it depends on how you define a BBS;
    LambdaMOO's internal message/mailing lists had more discussion back in the
    day than a lot of even fairly active BBSes.)

    But a lot of dial-up BBSes had Usenet access--actual big-8 Usenet, not
    just WWIVnet mirrored via NNTP or whatever--and many had
    Internet-routeable email, in one form or another. It wasn't
    quasi-instantaneous like we're used to today, but it existed.

    Whilst searching for something a week or two ago, I came across a
    discussion on Usenet from '93 about cross-linking Fidonet, Usenet, and
    RIME, I think it was, a network of BBSes running Waffle. I recall this not
    for its technical insights but because someone randomly interjected that
    the Internet was going to run out of IP addresses within a year and a
    half, which made me laugh, a quarter-century later.

    But this is all completely irrelevant to Gopher... alas. Oops.

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  • From Lawrence Woodman@21:1/5 to lkosov on Sun Aug 9 07:50:51 2020
    On Fri, 07 Aug 2020 21:59:50 +0000, lkosov wrote:

    On Fri, 7 Aug 2020, robobox wrote:

    IRC and FTP (and other pre-W3 protocols) I could see being a topic of
    discussion, but BBSes would be... odd. They were never really part of the
    global TCP/IP network until the 2000s and it seems whenever somebody brings

    Whilst searching for something a week or two ago, I came across a
    discussion on Usenet from '93 about cross-linking Fidonet, Usenet, and
    RIME, I think it was, a network of BBSes running Waffle. I recall this not for its technical insights but because someone randomly interjected that
    the Internet was going to run out of IP addresses within a year and a
    half, which made me laugh, a quarter-century later.

    There was actually a Fidonet Internet Gateway dating back to about 1985,
    which used address mangling to go between Fidonet email addresses and
    internet addresses. The system worked well and I used it for quite a
    while to talk with people on the internet via a Fidonet BBS.

    1993 is interesting as I was using a BBS then called Spuddy's Xanadu
    which offered internet email and Usenet. It could also provide access to gopher, FTP and even later WWW via email. I'm pretty sure the service
    dates at least back as far as '91.

    Best wishes


    Lorry


    ---
    Terminal Programs for BBSing on the Commodore VIC-20 https://techtinkering.com/articles/terminal-programs-for-bbsing-on-the-commodore-vic-20/

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  • From lkosov@21:1/5 to Lawrence Woodman on Mon Aug 10 15:36:30 2020
    On Sun, 9 Aug 2020, Lawrence Woodman wrote:
    There was actually a Fidonet Internet Gateway dating back to about 1985, which used address mangling to go between Fidonet email addresses and internet addresses. The system worked well and I used it for quite a
    while to talk with people on the internet via a Fidonet BBS.

    I did the same, though I've forgotten most of the details, except that it
    was snail-mail slow. (Which I definitely don't think was a bad thing.)

    which offered internet email and Usenet. It could also provide access to gopher, FTP and even later WWW via email. I'm pretty sure the service
    dates at least back as far as '91.

    One of my first experiences with the Internet was FTP-via-email. The idea
    seems so quaint now, but it was amazingly useful in an age when a growing number of people were getting access to email through work, school, or a
    BBS.

    More on-topic, lol, I remember using Gopher itself, but I don't remember
    ever seeing a Gopher-via-email service. Maybe it was just the gopher client back then, but I don't remember ever even seeing URLs on Gopher, in the late '90s.
    It wasn't until years later that I saw the wonderfully unwieldy hostname.foo.bar.org.tld:70/1/dir/subdir/2014/filename.ext format.

    ...and now I'm off to reread the Gopher spec to see if there's anything
    about error/file-not-found pages/redirects.

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  • From Tech Guy@21:1/5 to Jason Evans on Fri Aug 28 17:45:44 2020
    Since I know a variety of folks, including me, who would tend to think
    of "folklore" as myth/legend rather than legitimate history, dozens of
    years ago I would have suggested not using the phrase "folklore" to
    discuss factual history. But as the years have gone by with what with
    seems to be a shift in "popularity" from USENET newsgroups to web based discussion forums, I would tend to think that using an established
    newsgroup is the better choice.

    On 7/27/20 10:50 AM, Jason Evans wrote:
    On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 19:33:12 -0700, Daniel wrote:

    Great idea. I'd be supportive of a moderation option though.


    We had the conversation in news.groups. Basically, alt.folklore.computers
    is an existing active newsgroup that already fits the bill so instead of creating a new newsgroup that might go dead, it's better to join an
    existing group and post there.

    Also, moderation is a pain unless you have a group of people who are
    ready and willing to make it work. There are a lot of dead groups because
    the mods quit, lost their accounts, etc. so nobody can post at all. We
    (the B8MB) can resurrect dead newsgroups by changing the moderator but
    you still need people to take it over if that happens.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)