FM17 was released today and for the first time includes developer and power-user tools such as script debugger and data viewer. These tools
were previously only included in FM Pro Advanced, which sold for almost
twice the price of the standard FM Pro. In fact, FM Pro is no longer,
as the desktop client is now being sold strictly as FM Pro Advanced.

The other notable aspect of FM17 is that it is now being sold as a
"platform". Rather than having to purchase each app separately (FM Pro,
Pro Advanced, Server, Data API, WebDirect concurrencies, etc), all VLA purchases of 5 seats or more will automatically include all of this.

What about new features? FM17 adds new functionality to portals, where
you can now set it to be based on the current found set. If you find
yourself wanting to add a filtered list of, for example, contact names
from which you want to select one to see the detail on that one...well,
you can now very easily set that up...without adding buttons or
highlight bars or anything else special.

Another interesting feature that will be particularly useful for
non-developers is the ability to add on modules. When creating a new
database, you have always been able to start with a pre-built template
that could then be customized as needed. Now you can add on to that in "modules" that automatically add the table structures, relationships,
layouts and more. It's kind of cool how it does that and it might just
help some people.

Oooh, what else you ask?!? Well, you'll find lots of changes that will literally change the way you work.

In layout mode, the Inspector, Field Picker, and Layout Objects palettes
are now side panels that are attached to each window and take up too
much space and reduce our overall layout work area.

The Launch Center has now been re-re-reconfigured so as to no longer be efficient (I'll let you play with it to discover your own set of reasons).

New tables will now automatically include a small set of default fields;
though these fields are all based on good practice, they are not named
with good-practice names and nor are they changeable through FM itself
(can be done outside of FM, however, if you know how).

The server admin console has removed pesky troubleshooting features like log-viewer, server and client level statistics, changing of the default
backup schedule, etc. All this stuff is now included in the new Server
Admin API, for which you'll need to build your own tools or pay for one
from among the many third-party tools that will likely become available
(or go away) at any moment.

"Stop whining about the stuff they took away, Howard. Go back to the
great new stuff!". I've played with 17 pretty extensively and I promise
you that there is nothing -- NADA -- worth upgrading for. BUT this is
probably meant more as a half-step to something great that might or
might not be implemented a year from now when FM18 is released.

Howard

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 15 May 2018 09:05:48 -0700, Howard Schlossberg wrote:

Oooh, what else you ask?!? Well, you'll find lots of changes that will literally change the way you work.

I want copy/paste across multiple "cells" (especially in table view).

I want multilevel undo - even after a replace operation.

"Stop whining about the stuff they took away, Howard. Go back to the
great new stuff!". I've played with 17 pretty extensively and I promise
you that there is nothing -- NADA -- worth upgrading for.

Ok, that's the main answer that I do need,

Thanks,
Martin

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I did forget to mention the new Data Migration Tool.  This isn't
technically part of FM Pro Advanced, but is certainly a new addition to
the platform.  It is a command line only tool that will be available
only through developer programs like FBA and FM Tech Net. It can easily
reduce time spent in deploying new builds of a system from 4-8 hours for
large systems down to mere minutes.  This is huge and you DON'T have to upgrade anyone to FM17 to take advantage of it.  But you do have to be a
paid member of one of the FM developer programs.

On 5/15/2018 9:05 AM, Howard Schlossberg wrote:

FM17 was released today and for the first time includes developer and power-user tools such as script debugger and data viewer.  These tools
were previously only included in FM Pro Advanced, which sold for
almost twice the price of the standard FM Pro.  In fact, FM Pro is no longer, as the desktop client is now being sold strictly as FM Pro
Advanced.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-15 16:05:48 +0000, Howard Schlossberg said:

FM17 was released today and for the first time includes developer and power-user tools such as script debugger and data viewer. These tools
were previously only included in FM Pro Advanced, which sold for almost
twice the price of the standard FM Pro. In fact, FM Pro is no longer,
as the desktop client is now being sold strictly as FM Pro Advanced.

[snip]

Here are a couple of news articles.

FileMaker 17 Launches With Improvements to App Development Speed and Interface <https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/15/filemaker-17-launch/>

Hands On: FileMaker Pro 17 beefs up its app development features <https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/05/15/hands-on-filemaker-pro-17-beefs-up-its-app-development-features>




The new pricing, with no explanation, could well scare off a lot of
people. Because they've now dropped the standard version of "FileMaker
Pro" and are only selling the "FileMaker Pro Advanced" version, the
price has risen dramatically for buyers (the articles don't mention
upgrade pricing):

"To buy FileMaker Pro Advanced 17 outright for just yourself,
not a team, costs US$540 where last year's FileMaker Pro 16
was US$329."

Or you can subscribe for US$15 per month (per user), which could easily
work out cheaper, especially since for that price you apparently get
"Mac and Windows versions plus FileMaker Go for iOS, as well as
FileMaker Cloud and FileMaker WebDirect for hosting custom apps
remotely".


Helpful Harry :o)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Helpful Harry <HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com> wrote:

On 2018-05-15 16:05:48 +0000, Howard Schlossberg said:

FM17 was released today and for the first time includes developer and power-user tools such as script debugger and data viewer. These tools
were previously only included in FM Pro Advanced, which sold for almost twice the price of the standard FM Pro. In fact, FM Pro is no longer,
as the desktop client is now being sold strictly as FM Pro Advanced.

[snip]

Here are a couple of news articles.

FileMaker 17 Launches With Improvements to App Development Speed and Interface
<https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/15/filemaker-17-launch/>

Hands On: FileMaker Pro 17 beefs up its app development features
<https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/05/15/hands-on-filemaker-pro-17-beefs-up-its-app-development-features>

The new pricing, with no explanation, could well scare off a lot of
people. Because they've now dropped the standard version of "FileMaker
Pro" and are only selling the "FileMaker Pro Advanced" version, the
price has risen dramatically for buyers (the articles don't mention
upgrade pricing):

"To buy FileMaker Pro Advanced 17 outright for just yourself,
not a team, costs US$540 where last year's FileMaker Pro 16
was US$329."

Or you can subscribe for US$15 per month (per user), which could easily
work out cheaper, especially since for that price you apparently get
"Mac and Windows versions plus FileMaker Go for iOS, as well as
FileMaker Cloud and FileMaker WebDirect for hosting custom apps
remotely".

A subscription is only available for a minimum of 5 users, which makes
the initial price expensive for people who only need one or two licences
of the desktop software and no server.

Upgrading individual licences is the same or cheaper than it was before.

Individual upgrade price is US$197 for FileMaker Pro 17 Advanced, which
is the same price as it was last year for upgrading to FileMaker Pro 16 (standard) and about 40% cheaper than upgrading to FileMaker Pro 16
Advanced.

They've also extended the upgrade window slightly: FileMaker Pro 14 and
later are eligible with no time limit for upgrading from 14.

https://store.filemaker.com/individuals

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Would you happen to know a good book to learn how to use FM?

Dipstick


On 2018-05-15 16:05:48 +0000, Howard Schlossberg said:

FM17 was released today and for the first time includes developer and power-user tools such as script debugger and data viewer. These tools
were previously only included in FM Pro Advanced, which sold for almost
twice the price of the standard FM Pro. In fact, FM Pro is no longer,
as the desktop client is now being sold strictly as FM Pro Advanced.

The other notable aspect of FM17 is that it is now being sold as a "platform". Rather than having to purchase each app separately (FM
Pro, Pro Advanced, Server, Data API, WebDirect concurrencies, etc), all
VLA purchases of 5 seats or more will automatically include all of this.

What about new features? FM17 adds new functionality to portals, where
you can now set it to be based on the current found set. If you find yourself wanting to add a filtered list of, for example, contact names
from which you want to select one to see the detail on that one...well,
you can now very easily set that up...without adding buttons or
highlight bars or anything else special.

Another interesting feature that will be particularly useful for non-developers is the ability to add on modules. When creating a new database, you have always been able to start with a pre-built template
that could then be customized as needed. Now you can add on to that in "modules" that automatically add the table structures, relationships,
layouts and more. It's kind of cool how it does that and it might just
help some people.

Oooh, what else you ask?!? Well, you'll find lots of changes that will literally change the way you work.

In layout mode, the Inspector, Field Picker, and Layout Objects
palettes are now side panels that are attached to each window and take
up too much space and reduce our overall layout work area.

The Launch Center has now been re-re-reconfigured so as to no longer be efficient (I'll let you play with it to discover your own set of
reasons).

New tables will now automatically include a small set of default
fields; though these fields are all based on good practice, they are
not named with good-practice names and nor are they changeable through
FM itself (can be done outside of FM, however, if you know how).

The server admin console has removed pesky troubleshooting features
like log-viewer, server and client level statistics, changing of the
default backup schedule, etc. All this stuff is now included in the
new Server Admin API, for which you'll need to build your own tools or
pay for one from among the many third-party tools that will likely
become available (or go away) at any moment.

"Stop whining about the stuff they took away, Howard. Go back to the
great new stuff!". I've played with 17 pretty extensively and I
promise you that there is nothing -- NADA -- worth upgrading for. BUT
this is probably meant more as a half-step to something great that
might or might not be implemented a year from now when FM18 is released.

Howard

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

Would you happen to know a good book to learn how to use FM?

I used
- Filemaker Training Series (the ones you need to get a certification
as developer)
- The Missing manual
- Filemaker in Depth

As for the latter 2, check out how old they are resp. which FM
versions they cover.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-17 07:03:31 +0000, Christoph L. Kaufmann said:

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

Would you happen to know a good book to learn how to use FM?

I used
- Filemaker Training Series (the ones you need to get a certification
as developer)
- The Missing manual
- Filemaker in Depth

As for the latter 2, check out how old they are resp. which FM
versions they cover.

All this time I didn't realize Filemaker Inc was owned by Apple. That
explains the good Mac support!

I think "Filemaker Training Series" is overkill for me, so I'll check
out the Missing Manual and FiD for version 16 since that will be the
most popular for a while. Thanks!

DS

PS-how long have you been using FileMaker? I'm wondering because I
know somebody who used it since 1984.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-17 20:07:07 +0000, DipStick said:

On 2018-05-17 07:03:31 +0000, Christoph L. Kaufmann said:

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

Would you happen to know a good book to learn how to use FM?

I used
- Filemaker Training Series (the ones you need to get a certification
as developer)
- The Missing manual
- Filemaker in Depth

As for the latter 2, check out how old they are resp. which FM
versions they cover.

All this time I didn't realize Filemaker Inc was owned by Apple. That explains the good Mac support!

[snip]

FileMaker Inc. is the Apple-ownerd spin-off company previously known as
Claris. They used to also make the ClarisWorks office suite among a few
other things.

Of course, the "FileMaker" database software itself pre-dates that (and
the Mac). The original database software was called Nutshell and had
been made for MS-DOS computers by a company caleld Nashoba. The
software's name was changed to FileMaker when the graphical user
interface was added and the original distributor, Leading Edge, wanted
to stick with DOS applications. Nashoba distributed that through a
company called Forethought Inc., which was later bought up by
Microsoft, but thankfully Nashoba kept hold of the ownership of the
FileMaker software (just imagine the horrible mess if Microsoft had got
hold of it - just look at Access!). Apple obtained the FileMaker
software when they bought up Nashoba.

The software has been through various names over the years and owners / distributors: Nutshell, FileMaker, FileMaker Plus, FileMaker II,
FileMaker Pro.

PS-how long have you been using FileMaker? I'm wondering because I
know somebody who used it since 1984.

That is possible if they mean the original "Nutshell" DOS application,
but the name "FileMaker" wasn't used until 1985. Realistically Nutshell
and FileMaker are very different application to use though, thanks to
the GUI interface.


Helpful Harry :o)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

All this time I didn't realize Filemaker Inc was owned by Apple. That >explains the good Mac support!

Beware of any new Mac OS - your Filemaker won't work any more. With a
new free MacOS every year and customers prompted to update by apple,
Filemaker has trouble updating.

Windows OS are better in supporting a variety of Filemaker version.
Filemaker looks horribly on Windows, however :-(

Filemaker Inc. is managed by the Apple's finance dept, i.e. the only
contact they ever have is every two months when Filemaker has to
report and justify why they haven't doubled their earnings yet.

PS-how long have you been using FileMaker?

1997, the oldest version I've see is Filemaker 3.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-19 08:34:01 +0000, Christoph L. Kaufmann said:

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

All this time I didn't realize Filemaker Inc was owned by Apple. That
explains the good Mac support!

Beware of any new Mac OS - your Filemaker won't work any more.

Not true. Older versions of FileMaker Pro can work on newer versions of
macOS, but like pretty much every other piece of software, there is a
limit (the most obvious being that 68K versions won't work on Intel
Macs, at least not with an emulator).

Until my Mac died on me, I was using FileMaker 5 from MacOS 9 (maybe 8)
through to MacOS X 10.2, and making standalone solutions to run on
various versions of Windows through to Windows 8 and probably Windows
10 (since the organisation hasn't complained to me about them not
working even though they have upgraded).

With a new free MacOS every year and customers prompted to update by apple, Filemaker has trouble updating.

You're not forced to upgrade the OS. It's your choice.

Windows OS are better in supporting a variety of Filemaker version.
Filemaker looks horribly on Windows, however :-(

That one is true, for some peculiar reason I've never bothered to look
into. Probably at least partially due to gamma differences in the
displays.

Filemaker Inc. is managed by the Apple's finance dept, i.e. the only
contact they ever have is every two months when Filemaker has to
report and justify why they haven't doubled their earnings yet.

FileMaker Inc is a totally separate, spun-off business. It's owned by
Apple, but runs independently. FileMaker's earnings are not included in
Apple's annnual financial reports.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-19 08:34:01 +0000, Christoph L. Kaufmann said:

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

All this time I didn't realize Filemaker Inc was owned by Apple. That
explains the good Mac support!

Beware of any new Mac OS - your Filemaker won't work any more. With a
new free MacOS every year and customers prompted to update by apple, Filemaker has trouble updating.

Windows OS are better in supporting a variety of Filemaker version.
Filemaker looks horribly on Windows, however :-(

Filemaker Inc. is managed by the Apple's finance dept, i.e. the only
contact they ever have is every two months when Filemaker has to
report and justify why they haven't doubled their earnings yet.

PS-how long have you been using FileMaker?

1997, the oldest version I've see is Filemaker 3.

I think you're exaggerating!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-17 21:53:40 +0000, Helpful Harry said:

On 2018-05-17 20:07:07 +0000, DipStick said:

On 2018-05-17 07:03:31 +0000, Christoph L. Kaufmann said:

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

Would you happen to know a good book to learn how to use FM?

I used
- Filemaker Training Series (the ones you need to get a certification
as developer)
- The Missing manual
- Filemaker in Depth

As for the latter 2, check out how old they are resp. which FM
versions they cover.

All this time I didn't realize Filemaker Inc was owned by Apple. That
explains the good Mac support!

[snip]

FileMaker Inc. is the Apple-ownerd spin-off company previously known as Claris. They used to also make the ClarisWorks office suite among a few
other things.

Of course, the "FileMaker" database software itself pre-dates that (and
the Mac). The original database software was called Nutshell and had
been made for MS-DOS computers by a company caleld Nashoba. The
software's name was changed to FileMaker when the graphical user
interface was added and the original distributor, Leading Edge, wanted
to stick with DOS applications. Nashoba distributed that through a
company called Forethought Inc., which was later bought up by
Microsoft, but thankfully Nashoba kept hold of the ownership of the
FileMaker software (just imagine the horrible mess if Microsoft had got
hold of it - just look at Access!). Apple obtained the FileMaker
software when they bought up Nashoba.

The software has been through various names over the years and owners / distributors: Nutshell, FileMaker, FileMaker Plus, FileMaker II,
FileMaker Pro.

PS-how long have you been using FileMaker? I'm wondering because I
know somebody who used it since 1984.

That is possible if they mean the original "Nutshell" DOS application,
but the name "FileMaker" wasn't used until 1985. Realistically Nutshell
and FileMaker are very different application to use though, thanks to
the GUI interface.

Helpful Harry :o)

Thats what I read on Wikipedia.
Yeah, he goes way back - my parents knew him before I was born. I'll
ask him just how far back he goes. I do have vague memories of him
having a dumb terminal at his home - my dad tells me the company he
worked for installed a data line for him. This would have been around 1982-1985.

However now, I must study.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-29 22:20:50 +0000, DipStick said:

On 2018-05-19 08:34:01 +0000, Christoph L. Kaufmann said:

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

All this time I didn't realize Filemaker Inc was owned by Apple. That
explains the good Mac support!

Beware of any new Mac OS - your Filemaker won't work any more. With a
new free MacOS every year and customers prompted to update by apple,
Filemaker has trouble updating.

Windows OS are better in supporting a variety of Filemaker version.
Filemaker looks horribly on Windows, however :-(

Filemaker Inc. is managed by the Apple's finance dept, i.e. the only
contact they ever have is every two months when Filemaker has to
report and justify why they haven't doubled their earnings yet.

PS-how long have you been using FileMaker?

1997, the oldest version I've see is Filemaker 3.

I think you're exaggerating!

I would have started using FileMaker with version 3, possibly slightly earlier.

Helpful Harry :o)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-30 01:22:21 +0000, Helpful Harry said:

On 2018-05-29 22:20:50 +0000, DipStick said:

On 2018-05-19 08:34:01 +0000, Christoph L. Kaufmann said:

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

All this time I didn't realize Filemaker Inc was owned by Apple. That >>>> explains the good Mac support!

Beware of any new Mac OS - your Filemaker won't work any more. With a
new free MacOS every year and customers prompted to update by apple,
Filemaker has trouble updating.

Windows OS are better in supporting a variety of Filemaker version.
Filemaker looks horribly on Windows, however :-(

Filemaker Inc. is managed by the Apple's finance dept, i.e. the only
contact they ever have is every two months when Filemaker has to
report and justify why they haven't doubled their earnings yet.

PS-how long have you been using FileMaker?

1997, the oldest version I've see is Filemaker 3.

I think you're exaggerating!

I would have started using FileMaker with version 3, possibly slightly earlier.

Helpful Harry :o)

I should have added that I also got "stuck" on my own ancient computer
at versions 4 and 5 for *many* years. Then when the computer died I
briefly moved to version 7 when using a newer version of OS X on a
temporarily borrowed computer. Then I had to jump directly to version
15 on my new Mac. I did use some of the intervening versions elsewhere
though.

Helpful Harry :o)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-30 01:29:00 +0000, Helpful Harry said:

On 2018-05-30 01:22:21 +0000, Helpful Harry said:

On 2018-05-29 22:20:50 +0000, DipStick said:

On 2018-05-19 08:34:01 +0000, Christoph L. Kaufmann said:

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

All this time I didn't realize Filemaker Inc was owned by Apple. That >>>>> explains the good Mac support!

Beware of any new Mac OS - your Filemaker won't work any more. With a
new free MacOS every year and customers prompted to update by apple,
Filemaker has trouble updating.

Windows OS are better in supporting a variety of Filemaker version.
Filemaker looks horribly on Windows, however :-(

Filemaker Inc. is managed by the Apple's finance dept, i.e. the only
contact they ever have is every two months when Filemaker has to
report and justify why they haven't doubled their earnings yet.

PS-how long have you been using FileMaker?

1997, the oldest version I've see is Filemaker 3.

I think you're exaggerating!

I would have started using FileMaker with version 3, possibly slightly earlier.

Helpful Harry :o)

I should have added that I also got "stuck" on my own ancient computer
at versions 4 and 5 for *many* years. Then when the computer died I
briefly moved to version 7 when using a newer version of OS X on a temporarily borrowed computer. Then I had to jump directly to version
15 on my new Mac. I did use some of the intervening versions elsewhere though.

Helpful Harry :o)

Yeah, once I get used to software I don't want to learn another
version. I had that issue with Office 2008 - even though it was a
complete piece of shit. At the time I finally threw in the towel and
learned iWork.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-30 23:03:19 +0000, DipStick said:

On 2018-05-30 01:29:00 +0000, Helpful Harry said:

On 2018-05-30 01:22:21 +0000, Helpful Harry said:

On 2018-05-29 22:20:50 +0000, DipStick said:

On 2018-05-19 08:34:01 +0000, Christoph L. Kaufmann said:

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

All this time I didn't realize Filemaker Inc was owned by Apple. That >>>>>> explains the good Mac support!

Beware of any new Mac OS - your Filemaker won't work any more. With a >>>>> new free MacOS every year and customers prompted to update by apple, >>>>> Filemaker has trouble updating.

Windows OS are better in supporting a variety of Filemaker version.
Filemaker looks horribly on Windows, however :-(

Filemaker Inc. is managed by the Apple's finance dept, i.e. the only >>>>> contact they ever have is every two months when Filemaker has to
report and justify why they haven't doubled their earnings yet.

PS-how long have you been using FileMaker?

1997, the oldest version I've see is Filemaker 3.

I think you're exaggerating!

I would have started using FileMaker with version 3, possibly slightly earlier.

I should have added that I also got "stuck" on my own ancient computer
at versions 4 and 5 for *many* years. Then when the computer died I
briefly moved to version 7 when using a newer version of OS X on a
temporarily borrowed computer. Then I had to jump directly to version
15 on my new Mac. I did use some of the intervening versions elsewhere
though.

Yeah, once I get used to software I don't want to learn another
version. I had that issue with Office 2008 - even though it was a
complete piece of shit. At the time I finally threw in the towel and
learned iWork.

Mine was more a case of the old G3 simply not being able to run
anything newer (it was also "stuck" on MacOS X 10.2) ... BUT the newer
versions of FileMaker Pro definitely have been becoming more
overly-complicated and less user-friendly. The horrible Relationship
'tree' being the most obvious example.

Helpful Harry :o)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-31 01:49:25 +0000, Helpful Harry said:

Yeah, once I get used to software I don't want to learn another
version. I had that issue with Office 2008 - even though it was a
complete piece of shit. At the time I finally threw in the towel and
learned iWork.

Mine was more a case of the old G3 simply not being able to run
anything newer (it was also "stuck" on MacOS X 10.2) ... BUT the newer versions of FileMaker Pro definitely have been becoming more overly-complicated and less user-friendly. The horrible Relationship
'tree' being the most obvious example.

Helpful Harry :o)

Yeah, when they finally ditched PowerPC and went x64/86 it caused some
pain. Almost as bad as when they stopped including 3.5" floppy drives!

People are saying the same thing about AutoCAD 2018. But there's
AutoCAD 2018 LT. AutoCAD Lite? AutoCAD and FM are two programs I'd
like to learn how to use, but working full time and studying for the
CPA doesn't leave me much time. I have two books on AutoCAD one for
2017 one for 2018.

Unrelated: what was the biggest file you ever encountered? Excluding
video & audio files. A few years ago my friend from college dealt with
a 900MB DXF (AutoCAD) which grew to 1GB by the end of the day.
Surprisingly the users were able to open and manipulate the file
perfectly fine.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-05-31 22:10:28 +0000, DipStick said:

On 2018-05-31 01:49:25 +0000, Helpful Harry said:

Yeah, once I get used to software I don't want to learn another
version. I had that issue with Office 2008 - even though it was a
complete piece of shit. At the time I finally threw in the towel and
learned iWork.

Mine was more a case of the old G3 simply not being able to run
anything newer (it was also "stuck" on MacOS X 10.2) ... BUT the newer
versions of FileMaker Pro definitely have been becoming more
overly-complicated and less user-friendly. The horrible Relationship
'tree' being the most obvious example.

Yeah, when they finally ditched PowerPC and went x64/86 it caused some
pain. Almost as bad as when they stopped including 3.5" floppy drives!

Th eproblem wasn't so much that Apple stopped including floppy drives,
but that they stopped including any drives capable of writing data,
making it hard to move files around (USB "memory sticks" / thumb drives
were still relatively expensive and USB not available on every
computer).

People are saying the same thing about AutoCAD 2018. But there's
AutoCAD 2018 LT. AutoCAD Lite? AutoCAD and FM are two programs I'd
like to learn how to use, but working full time and studying for the
CPA doesn't leave me much time. I have two books on AutoCAD one for
2017 one for 2018.

Unrelated: what was the biggest file you ever encountered? Excluding
video & audio files. A few years ago my friend from college dealt with
a 900MB DXF (AutoCAD) which grew to 1GB by the end of the day.
Surprisingly the users were able to open and manipulate the file
perfectly fine.

I don't know about the biggest. I've never bothered to keep track. I do
work with some large print documents, although none over a few tens of megabytes.

Some document files can contain a lot of excess garbage when they are
simply saved and saved over the top. For example, document files from
apps like Pagemaker and Adobe InDesign tend to grow bigger and bigger
over the time they are used, but if you perform a 'Save As' (to a new
name or the same name), all the extra rubbish gets removed and the
filesize is suddenly smaller - in some cases A LOT smaller. It might be
the same with AutoCAD, but I've never used it.

Video, audio, disk images, etc. can all be large filesizes by necessity.

Databases too can be huge if they've got a lot of records / data stored
in them. One reason why the old FileMaker method of storing related
'tables' in separate files was a good idea (and I think can still be
done in the newer versions).

Helpful Harry :o)

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On Wed, 30 May 2018 13:22:21 +1200, Helpful Harry wrote:

On 2018-05-29 22:20:50 +0000, DipStick said:

On 2018-05-19 08:34:01 +0000, Christoph L. Kaufmann said:

DipStick <dipstick@dingleberry.org> schrub:

All this time I didn't realize Filemaker Inc was owned by Apple. That >>>> explains the good Mac support!

Beware of any new Mac OS - your Filemaker won't work any more. With a
new free MacOS every year and customers prompted to update by apple,
Filemaker has trouble updating.

Windows OS are better in supporting a variety of Filemaker version.
Filemaker looks horribly on Windows, however :-(

Filemaker Inc. is managed by the Apple's finance dept, i.e. the only
contact they ever have is every two months when Filemaker has to
report and justify why they haven't doubled their earnings yet.

PS-how long have you been using FileMaker?

1997, the oldest version I've see is Filemaker 3.

I think you're exaggerating!

I would have started using FileMaker with version 3, possibly slightly earlier.

I do remember 2.1.3,
Martin - former author of the FMP FAQs

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On Thu, 31 May 2018 13:49:25 +1200, Helpful Harry wrote:

Yeah, once I get used to software I don't want to learn another
version. I had that issue with Office 2008 - even though it was a
complete piece of shit. At the time I finally threw in the towel and
learned iWork.

Mine was more a case of the old G3 simply not being able to run
anything newer (it was also "stuck" on MacOS X 10.2) ... BUT the newer versions of FileMaker Pro definitely have been becoming more overly-complicated and less user-friendly. The horrible Relationship
'tree' being the most obvious example.

I was stuck with MacOS 7 and .fp3 for many years, until I made the
switch to MacOS 10.2 and .fp7

From then on I do miss real regex support within FMP - I have to get
this done externally and re-import the changed data.

The versions in between did not show any kind of improvement that would
offer a significant help. Currently I'm stuck with FMP11 and MacOS
10.10. Something within my setup does prevent the change to MacOS High
Sierra, the computers (including a Macbook Pro with Touch Bar) are stuck
within a reboot loop, reason still unknown.

- Martin

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