FMP16 is becoming more and more bizarre. Here are some of the alligators
I'm fighting at the moment. Everything described below is occurring in a
single database. I'm running 10.12.6 on a newish iMac.

1. Some of the layouts in this database have the Classic theme. In this database I have a new layout and Classic theme is not one of the options presented to me. I've tried the "Import Themes" button and it seems that
none of my databases have any themes available for import at all.

2. I have a layout that has ten buttons. Each of these buttons has
somehow become a group of one. When I try to ungroup one, it also
removes the connection to the script that will be run upon clicking on
the button. When I reestablish that connection, the button is again
placed into a group of one.

3. I always create space between the edges of an edit box and the text
in that box. In the past I've done this using the paragraph formatting
part of the Inspector (third set of tools, under the palette). The
spacing I typically use is 1/32" (0.03125"). On the layout referenced in
#1 above, the spacing is far larger that 1/32", more like 1/8" or even
3/16". (Zoom to Actual Size is in effect.)

4. This same layout, I am unable to put borders around the edit boxes.
The graphic in the Inspector changes appropriately, but when I go to
Browse mode nothing has changed.

5. I've just solved a couple of problems related to buttons on that same
layout (No rounded corners and little contrast to the background). I
suspect that I wouldn't have had these problems if I could have used the Classic theme.

Charlie
--
Nobody in this country got rich on his own. You built a factory--good.
But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for. You hired workers we
all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory.
But take a hunk and pay it forward. Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi Charlie -- I'll try to answer you issues below.

On 3/7/2018 12:21 PM, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

FMP16 is becoming more and more bizarre. Here are some of the alligators
I'm fighting at the moment. Everything described below is occurring in a single database. I'm running 10.12.6 on a newish iMac.

1. Some of the layouts in this database have the Classic theme. In this database I have a new layout and Classic theme is not one of the options presented to me. I've tried the "Import Themes" button and it seems that
none of my databases have any themes available for import at all.

The Classic theme has been deprecated and is not recommended.
Enlightened is the new default theme. Classic will remain in place for existing solutions, but is much slower than other themes and will not
work with Web Direct.

2. I have a layout that has ten buttons. Each of these buttons has
somehow become a group of one. When I try to ungroup one, it also
removes the connection to the script that will be run upon clicking on
the button. When I reestablish that connection, the button is again
placed into a group of one.

Buttons have always been a grouped object, though until 16 such a group
hasn't prevented simple formatting of the underlying object. The Layout
Object Inspector gives access to the contained objects. Or you can
click the button on the layout and click the tab button once to go to
the underlying object for formatting. This feels to me like an
unnecessary change, but I've already been whining about it for more than
a year. NOTE though that this behavior only applies to text or fields
or images or other objects that have been turned into buttons. If you
instead create a regular button object, then it is its own object and
you can add icons, etc (or make it transparent to put behind the field
or text or graphic you wish to buttonize).

3. I always create space between the edges of an edit box and the text
in that box. In the past I've done this using the paragraph formatting
part of the Inspector (third set of tools, under the palette). The
spacing I typically use is 1/32" (0.03125"). On the layout referenced in
#1 above, the spacing is far larger that 1/32", more like 1/8" or even
3/16". (Zoom to Actual Size is in effect.)

So change it to what you want and save the style. The default styles
use the 'Padding' section of the Inspector (also on the 3rd tab) to add
that space.

4. This same layout, I am unable to put borders around the edit boxes.
The graphic in the Inspector changes appropriately, but when I go to
Browse mode nothing has changed.

And the line type is set to solid and the line width is great than zero
and the line color is set to a color?

If so, the borders may still be hidden in list view if the layout setup
has marked "Delineate fields on current record only", which it will by
default.

5. I've just solved a couple of problems related to buttons on that same layout (No rounded corners and little contrast to the background). I
suspect that I wouldn't have had these problems if I could have used the Classic theme.

The classic theme drastically limits your options as compared to other
themes. But yes, if you use a different theme, then you will see
different defaults (including button rounding and colors).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

Hi Charlie -- I'll try to answer you issues below.

On 3/7/2018 12:21 PM, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

FMP16 is becoming more and more bizarre. Here are some of the alligators I'm fighting at the moment. Everything described below is occurring in a single database. I'm running 10.12.6 on a newish iMac.

1. Some of the layouts in this database have the Classic theme. In this database I have a new layout and Classic theme is not one of the options presented to me. I've tried the "Import Themes" button and it seems that none of my databases have any themes available for import at all.

The Classic theme has been deprecated and is not recommended.
Enlightened is the new default theme. Classic will remain in place for existing solutions, but is much slower than other themes and will not
work with Web Direct.

I'm not following you here, Howard. I understand "deprecated", but I
don't understand what it means for a theme to be slow. I expect that a
theme is just a way a layout is displayed, that the underlying data have nothing to do with the way they are displayed.

2. I have a layout that has ten buttons. Each of these buttons has
somehow become a group of one. When I try to ungroup one, it also
removes the connection to the script that will be run upon clicking on
the button. When I reestablish that connection, the button is again
placed into a group of one.

Buttons have always been a grouped object, though until 16 such a group hasn't prevented simple formatting of the underlying object. The Layout Object Inspector gives access to the contained objects. Or you can
click the button on the layout and click the tab button once to go to
the underlying object for formatting. This feels to me like an
unnecessary change, but I've already been whining about it for more than
a year. NOTE though that this behavior only applies to text or fields
or images or other objects that have been turned into buttons. If you instead create a regular button object, then it is its own object and
you can add icons, etc (or make it transparent to put behind the field
or text or graphic you wish to buttonize).

Oh, my. Now I'm really confused. You write "click the tab button." What
does that mean? If you meant, "press the tab key", that does nothing for
me.

I made the rookie mistake of messing around with a working database,
instead of a copy. On one of these grouped buttons, when I was looking
at the button setup windows, I clicked on the Options arrow. This
displayed four choices but there was not a "None" choice. Now I have a
unwanted action forever attached to this button. (Thank you Time
Machine.)

While messing around, I inserted another button on this layout. This
button was not placed into a group of one! Just to verify this now-odd behavior, I rounded the corners and attached a script. Still no group of
one. However, when I attached the script, an option was automatically
chosen.

3. I always create space between the edges of an edit box and the text
in that box. In the past I've done this using the paragraph formatting
part of the Inspector (third set of tools, under the palette). The
spacing I typically use is 1/32" (0.03125"). On the layout referenced in
#1 above, the spacing is far larger that 1/32", more like 1/8" or even 3/16". (Zoom to Actual Size is in effect.)

So change it to what you want and save the style. The default styles
use the 'Padding' section of the Inspector (also on the 3rd tab) to add
that space.

Padding is nice to know about. After a bit of work, I find that the
measurement is in points. Measuring in points is o.k., but it would have
been nice to have the usual measurement options (inches, pixels, etc.).

By poking around, I was lucky enough to find where "save the style" is accomplished, hidden on the Styles tab of the Inspector. I thought it
might be a menu item. If it is, I haven't seen it yet.

4. This same layout, I am unable to put borders around the edit boxes.
The graphic in the Inspector changes appropriately, but when I go to
Browse mode nothing has changed.

And the line type is set to solid and the line width is great than zero
and the line color is set to a color?

All of the above except for the line color. I wanted black, which was
the default in FMP8, and I got grey. All is now fixed.

If so, the borders may still be hidden in list view if the layout setup
has marked "Delineate fields on current record only", which it will by default.

I unchecked that too.

5. I've just solved a couple of problems related to buttons on that same layout (No rounded corners and little contrast to the background). I suspect that I wouldn't have had these problems if I could have used the Classic theme.

The classic theme drastically limits your options as compared to other themes. But yes, if you use a different theme, then you will see
different defaults (including button rounding and colors).

Many thanks again, Howard.

Charlie
--
Nobody in this country got rich on his own. You built a factory--good.
But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for. You hired workers we
all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory.
But take a hunk and pay it forward. Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/11/2018 6:15 PM, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

Hi Charlie -- I'll try to answer you issues below.

On 3/7/2018 12:21 PM, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

FMP16 is becoming more and more bizarre. Here are some of the alligators >>> I'm fighting at the moment. Everything described below is occurring in a >>> single database. I'm running 10.12.6 on a newish iMac.

1. Some of the layouts in this database have the Classic theme. In this
database I have a new layout and Classic theme is not one of the options >>> presented to me. I've tried the "Import Themes" button and it seems that >>> none of my databases have any themes available for import at all.

The Classic theme has been deprecated and is not recommended.
Enlightened is the new default theme. Classic will remain in place for
existing solutions, but is much slower than other themes and will not
work with Web Direct.

I'm not following you here, Howard. I understand "deprecated", but I
don't understand what it means for a theme to be slow. I expect that a
theme is just a way a layout is displayed, that the underlying data have nothing to do with the way they are displayed.

FileMaker's themes are stored as CSS (cascading style sheets) much like
a web page. The classic theme was not an efficiently written style
sheet, as it had to properly accommodate conversions from older versions
of FM. My understanding is that it stores every single object as its
own style, with all its own custom metadata. This is as opposed to a
using another theme's style for, say, a text object and only having to
store the difference in any customization cascaded down from the theme's
style. You won't notice much difference in speed other than more
complex layouts with lots of objects.

2. I have a layout that has ten buttons. Each of these buttons has
somehow become a group of one. When I try to ungroup one, it also
removes the connection to the script that will be run upon clicking on
the button. When I reestablish that connection, the button is again
placed into a group of one.

Buttons have always been a grouped object, though until 16 such a group
hasn't prevented simple formatting of the underlying object. The Layout
Object Inspector gives access to the contained objects. Or you can
click the button on the layout and click the tab button once to go to
the underlying object for formatting. This feels to me like an
unnecessary change, but I've already been whining about it for more than
a year. NOTE though that this behavior only applies to text or fields
or images or other objects that have been turned into buttons. If you
instead create a regular button object, then it is its own object and
you can add icons, etc (or make it transparent to put behind the field
or text or graphic you wish to buttonize).

Oh, my. Now I'm really confused. You write "click the tab button." What
does that mean? If you meant, "press the tab key", that does nothing for
me.

Yes, the tab key on your keyboard. If the selected object is a group (including an object set to act as a button), then pressing the tab key
will go to the first object on that one-item group and will then allow
you to format. In 16, you may not see a difference in the object itself
as you press tab, but you should see a change in the Inspector as
formatting options become available.

I made the rookie mistake of messing around with a working database,
instead of a copy. On one of these grouped buttons, when I was looking
at the button setup windows, I clicked on the Options arrow. This
displayed four choices but there was not a "None" choice. Now I have a unwanted action forever attached to this button. (Thank you Time
Machine.)

The button setup shows three possible actions: Do Nothing, Single Step,
Perform Script. If it was a non-button object made into a button, then
"Do Nothing" should unbutton it. But if it was an object created in an
earlier version of FileMaker and shows in 16 as a one-item Button Group,
then you can "ungroup" the object (CTRL-SHFT-R on windows) to make the
button part of it go away.

While messing around, I inserted another button on this layout. This
button was not placed into a group of one! Just to verify this now-odd behavior, I rounded the corners and attached a script. Still no group of
one. However, when I attached the script, an option was automatically
chosen.

If you use FM's button object to make a button, then (as you have
discovered) it is very different from another object that was made into
a button. A native button is a button and doesn't need to create an
artificial group as it does when turning another object into a button.

There is also the "button bar" object. Some FM developers create a
one-button button bar because this provide an additional benefit of
being changed from a regular button to a popover button (or back) at any
time.

3. I always create space between the edges of an edit box and the text
in that box. In the past I've done this using the paragraph formatting
part of the Inspector (third set of tools, under the palette). The
spacing I typically use is 1/32" (0.03125"). On the layout referenced in >>> #1 above, the spacing is far larger that 1/32", more like 1/8" or even
3/16". (Zoom to Actual Size is in effect.)

So change it to what you want and save the style. The default styles
use the 'Padding' section of the Inspector (also on the 3rd tab) to add
that space.

Padding is nice to know about. After a bit of work, I find that the measurement is in points. Measuring in points is o.k., but it would have
been nice to have the usual measurement options (inches, pixels, etc.).

Pixels don't really exist anymore in FM as a measurement option because
it becomes somewhat meaningless as you switch between different devices
and screen technologies.

I realize everyone has their own personal preference, but I encourage
you to use points for all measurements whenever possible. Most
professional developers do because it provides the most accuracy, the
finest point of adjustment, and you soon become accustomed to those measurements. The only time I switch to inches in FM is when I'm
dealing with margin widths on a print layout, just because I know a .5"
or .75" margin is a nice margin and I've never memorized the conversion
to points.

By poking around, I was lucky enough to find where "save the style" is accomplished, hidden on the Styles tab of the Inspector. I thought it
might be a menu item. If it is, I haven't seen it yet.

It's on the Inspector. In my opinion, the way FileMaker designed its
themes and styles interface is very very far from being intuitive.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

On 3/11/2018 6:15 PM, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

Hi Charlie -- I'll try to answer you issues below.

On 3/7/2018 12:21 PM, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

FMP16 is becoming more and more bizarre. Here are some of the alligators >>> I'm fighting at the moment. Everything described below is occurring in a >>> single database. I'm running 10.12.6 on a newish iMac.

1. Some of the layouts in this database have the Classic theme. In this >>> database I have a new layout and Classic theme is not one of the options >>> presented to me. I've tried the "Import Themes" button and it seems that >>> none of my databases have any themes available for import at all.

The Classic theme has been deprecated and is not recommended.
Enlightened is the new default theme. Classic will remain in place for
existing solutions, but is much slower than other themes and will not
work with Web Direct.

I'm not following you here, Howard. I understand "deprecated", but I
don't understand what it means for a theme to be slow. I expect that a theme is just a way a layout is displayed, that the underlying data have nothing to do with the way they are displayed.

FileMaker's themes are stored as CSS (cascading style sheets) much like
a web page. The classic theme was not an efficiently written style
sheet, as it had to properly accommodate conversions from older versions
of FM. My understanding is that it stores every single object as its
own style, with all its own custom metadata. This is as opposed to a
using another theme's style for, say, a text object and only having to
store the difference in any customization cascaded down from the theme's style. You won't notice much difference in speed other than more
complex layouts with lots of objects.

2. I have a layout that has ten buttons. Each of these buttons has
somehow become a group of one. When I try to ungroup one, it also
removes the connection to the script that will be run upon clicking on >>> the button. When I reestablish that connection, the button is again
placed into a group of one.

Buttons have always been a grouped object, though until 16 such a group
hasn't prevented simple formatting of the underlying object. The Layout >> Object Inspector gives access to the contained objects. Or you can
click the button on the layout and click the tab button once to go to
the underlying object for formatting. This feels to me like an
unnecessary change, but I've already been whining about it for more than >> a year. NOTE though that this behavior only applies to text or fields
or images or other objects that have been turned into buttons. If you
instead create a regular button object, then it is its own object and
you can add icons, etc (or make it transparent to put behind the field
or text or graphic you wish to buttonize).

Oh, my. Now I'm really confused. You write "click the tab button." What does that mean? If you meant, "press the tab key", that does nothing for me.

Yes, the tab key on your keyboard. If the selected object is a group (including an object set to act as a button), then pressing the tab key
will go to the first object on that one-item group and will then allow
you to format. In 16, you may not see a difference in the object itself
as you press tab, but you should see a change in the Inspector as
formatting options become available.

When I click on one of these buttons that are in single-button groups
and then hit the tab key, the only change I can see is that a big "T"
appears below that button's icon in the Layout Objects window. I see no
obvious change in my ability to format anything.

I made the rookie mistake of messing around with a working database, instead of a copy. On one of these grouped buttons, when I was looking
at the button setup windows, I clicked on the Options arrow. This
displayed four choices but there was not a "None" choice. Now I have a unwanted action forever attached to this button. (Thank you Time
Machine.)

The button setup shows three possible actions: Do Nothing, Single Step, Perform Script. If it was a non-button object made into a button, then
"Do Nothing" should unbutton it. But if it was an object created in an earlier version of FileMaker and shows in 16 as a one-item Button Group,
then you can "ungroup" the object (CTRL-SHFT-R on windows) to make the
button part of it go away.

I haven't yet used the ability to make a non-button object into a
button.

While messing around, I inserted another button on this layout. This
button was not placed into a group of one! Just to verify this now-odd behavior, I rounded the corners and attached a script. Still no group of one. However, when I attached the script, an option was automatically chosen.

If you use FM's button object to make a button, then (as you have
discovered) it is very different from another object that was made into
a button. A native button is a button and doesn't need to create an artificial group as it does when turning another object into a button.

I use the Insert -> Button menu item. Noting what I said above, I
haven't noticed any such difference because I've never turned non-button
into a button.

There is also the "button bar" object. Some FM developers create a one-button button bar because this provide an additional benefit of
being changed from a regular button to a popover button (or back) at any time.

I have no idea what a "button bar" object. As I've said before, Howard,
at any time you can say, "Read the Pogue book."

3. I always create space between the edges of an edit box and the text >>> in that box. In the past I've done this using the paragraph formatting >>> part of the Inspector (third set of tools, under the palette). The
spacing I typically use is 1/32" (0.03125"). On the layout referenced in >>> #1 above, the spacing is far larger that 1/32", more like 1/8" or even >>> 3/16". (Zoom to Actual Size is in effect.)

So change it to what you want and save the style. The default styles
use the 'Padding' section of the Inspector (also on the 3rd tab) to add
that space.

Padding is nice to know about. After a bit of work, I find that the measurement is in points. Measuring in points is o.k., but it would have been nice to have the usual measurement options (inches, pixels, etc.).

Pixels don't really exist anymore in FM as a measurement option because
it becomes somewhat meaningless as you switch between different devices
and screen technologies.

I realize everyone has their own personal preference, but I encourage
you to use points for all measurements whenever possible. Most
professional developers do because it provides the most accuracy, the
finest point of adjustment, and you soon become accustomed to those measurements. The only time I switch to inches in FM is when I'm
dealing with margin widths on a print layout, just because I know a .5"
or .75" margin is a nice margin and I've never memorized the conversion
to points.

Since I'm a mathematician, the mental gymnastics of working in 1/72 is
no big deal, but what's wrong with being able to say 0.5" rather than 36 points? I agree with the argument against pixels.

As an aside, the latest version of Excel has gone bezerk, giving
measurements in some unidentified units that I haven't been able to
puzzle out,

By poking around, I was lucky enough to find where "save the style" is accomplished, hidden on the Styles tab of the Inspector. I thought it
might be a menu item. If it is, I haven't seen it yet.

It's on the Inspector. In my opinion, the way FileMaker designed its
themes and styles interface is very very far from being intuitive.

--
Nobody in this country got rich on his own. You built a factory--good.
But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for. You hired workers we
all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory.
But take a hunk and pay it forward. Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/16/2018 12:19 PM, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

I have no idea what a "button bar" object. As I've said before, Howard,
at any time you can say, "Read the Pogue book."

Well, I only know "the Pogue book" from your posts; I've otherwise never
heard it referred to. My suggestion is to start with this help article
and then look for some blogs and sample files you can download online
and play with.

https://fmhelp.filemaker.com/help/16/fmp/en/#page/FMP_Help%2Fdefining-changing-button-bar.html

https://dbservices.com/articles/filemaker-button-bar/ https://www.teamdf.com/blogs/14-for-14-building-a-navigation-button-bar/ https://blog.beezwax.net/2016/11/22/fun-with-filemaker-button-bars-part-2-expert-panel/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

On 3/16/2018 12:19 PM, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

I have no idea what a "button bar" object. As I've said before, Howard,
at any time you can say, "Read the Pogue book."

Well, I only know "the Pogue book" from your posts; I've otherwise never heard it referred to. My suggestion is to start with this help article
and then look for some blogs and sample files you can download online
and play with.

My bad. I see that my "Pogue Book" is for OS X. My FileMaker Pro 8 book
is is published by Pogue Press/O'Reilly and is subtitled "The Missing
Manual".

So, my invitation to you (and anybody else who gets tired of my
questions) is for you to say at any time, "Read the Missing Manual".

https://fmhelp.filemaker.com/help/16/fmp/en/#page/FMP_Help%2Fdefining- changing-button-bar.html

https://dbservices.com/articles/filemaker-button-bar/ https://www.teamdf.com/blogs/14-for-14-building-a-navigation-button-bar/ https://blog.beezwax.net/2016/11/22/fun-with-filemaker-button-bars-part-2- expert-panel/

This respomse is dutifully locked, to make sure it doesn't accidentally
go away before I can check all of this out. Thanks.

Charlie
--
Nobody in this country got rich on his own. You built a factory--good.
But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for. You hired workers we
all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory.
But take a hunk and pay it forward. Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2018-03-17 18:30:01 +0000, Charles H. Sampson said:

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

On 3/16/2018 12:19 PM, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

I have no idea what a "button bar" object. As I've said before, Howard,
at any time you can say, "Read the Pogue book."

Well, I only know "the Pogue book" from your posts; I've otherwise never
heard it referred to. My suggestion is to start with this help article
and then look for some blogs and sample files you can download online
and play with.

My bad. I see that my "Pogue Book" is for OS X. My FileMaker Pro 8 book
is is published by Pogue Press/O'Reilly and is subtitled "The Missing Manual".

So, my invitation to you (and anybody else who gets tired of my
questions) is for you to say at any time, "Read the Missing Manual".

Books and manuals can be helpful, but they sometimes can be a bit
tunnel visioned. There may well be other better ways to achieve
something. They also become out-of-date quite quickly, which is why
web-based resources and forums are often a better option since they can
be more easily and quickly updated.

There's also the fact that even things such as the samples and
templates that shipped with early versions FileMaker Pro itself were
*very* badly made and buggy (I haven't looked at what comes with more
recent versions) which can cause extra problems for people.


Helpful Harry :o)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Helpful Harry <HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com> wrote:

On 2018-03-17 18:30:01 +0000, Charles H. Sampson said:

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

On 3/16/2018 12:19 PM, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

I have no idea what a "button bar" object. As I've said before, Howard, >>> at any time you can say, "Read the Pogue book."

Well, I only know "the Pogue book" from your posts; I've otherwise never >> heard it referred to. My suggestion is to start with this help article
and then look for some blogs and sample files you can download online
and play with.

My bad. I see that my "Pogue Book" is for OS X. My FileMaker Pro 8 book
is is published by Pogue Press/O'Reilly and is subtitled "The Missing Manual".

So, my invitation to you (and anybody else who gets tired of my
questions) is for you to say at any time, "Read the Missing Manual".

Books and manuals can be helpful, but they sometimes can be a bit
tunnel visioned. There may well be other better ways to achieve
something. They also become out-of-date quite quickly, which is why
web-based resources and forums are often a better option since they can
be more easily and quickly updated.

There's also the fact that even things such as the samples and
templates that shipped with early versions FileMaker Pro itself were
*very* badly made and buggy (I haven't looked at what comes with more
recent versions) which can cause extra problems for people.

Right you are. Also, a lot of what we've been discussing lately is
beyond the grasp of the writer of my Missing Manual for FMP8.

Charlie
--
Nobody in this country got rich on his own. You built a factory--good.
But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for. You hired workers we
all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory.
But take a hunk and pay it forward. Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased)

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On 2018-03-19 20:27:03 +0000, Charles H. Sampson said:

Helpful Harry <HelpfulHarry@BusyWorking.com> wrote:

On 2018-03-17 18:30:01 +0000, Charles H. Sampson said:

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

On 3/16/2018 12:19 PM, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

Howard Schlossberg <howard@nospam.fmprosolutions.com> wrote:

I have no idea what a "button bar" object. As I've said before, Howard, >>>>> at any time you can say, "Read the Pogue book."

Well, I only know "the Pogue book" from your posts; I've otherwise never >>>> heard it referred to. My suggestion is to start with this help article >>>> and then look for some blogs and sample files you can download online
and play with.

My bad. I see that my "Pogue Book" is for OS X. My FileMaker Pro 8 book
is is published by Pogue Press/O'Reilly and is subtitled "The Missing
Manual".

So, my invitation to you (and anybody else who gets tired of my
questions) is for you to say at any time, "Read the Missing Manual".

Books and manuals can be helpful, but they sometimes can be a bit
tunnel visioned. There may well be other better ways to achieve
something. They also become out-of-date quite quickly, which is why
web-based resources and forums are often a better option since they can
be more easily and quickly updated.

There's also the fact that even things such as the samples and
templates that shipped with early versions FileMaker Pro itself were
*very* badly made and buggy (I haven't looked at what comes with more
recent versions) which can cause extra problems for people.

Right you are. Also, a lot of what we've been discussing lately is
beyond the grasp of the writer of my Missing Manual for FMP8.

FileMaker Pro 8 and FileMaker Pro 16 are almost completely different
products (and I'm fast coming to the conclusion that version 16 and
other recent versions are much worse! Far too over-complicated and
messy compared to the old versions).

You would need to update the book to a FileMaker 16 version.

Helpful Harry :o)

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