On Monday, September 30, 2019 at 3:06:36 PM UTC-7, David Brown wrote:

(snip)

Some processors have larger access sizes to simplify the hardware. The
first DEC Alpha, and some ARM designs, had no instructions for reading
or writing 8-bit or 16-bit data. In effect, these had 32-bit (maybe on
the Alpha it was 64-bit) "byte" sizes. But smaller access sizes could
be easily simulated in software.

Alpha isn't quite that bad.

The load/store instructions work on 32 or 64 bit units, but they ignore
the low bits when doing it.

So, you take a byte address, and use a load instruction to load its
word into a register. (I forget now the names of the memory units.)

Then there are instructions for operating on bytes
in a register which ignore the high bits. So, you can load a byte
from memory into a register with two instructions. To store a byte,
I believe you load the word, replace the byte, and write it back,
so three instructions.

Note that those operations are what CISC processors do without
you thinking about them on many machines, as memory is often
much wider than 8 bits.

Machines not so well designed require masking off the appropriate
bits before operating with them, though many machines ignore high
bits on shift operations. (The 8086 allows shifts up to 255 bits.)

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On 2020-02-28 09:23, gah4@u.washington.edu wrote:

Machines not so well designed require masking off the appropriate
bits before operating with them, though many machines ignore high
bits on shift operations. (The 8086 allows shifts up to 255 bits.)

Who can say that the CDC machines (7600; 70 series, etc) were not
well designed?

They were intended to be fast, and to carry out operations on
words (of 60 bits).

To be sure, it was necessary to mask bits (usually characters),
but there was a simple instruction(s) to generate a mask of
n bits (better than loading a word containing bits to be used
as a mask).

On the other hand, the IBM S/360 was designed from the beginning to
handle bytes of 8 bits, half-words of 16 bits, and words of 32 bits.

Instructions could load and store a byte into/from the low-order
bits of a register, without affecting the other bits. Later models
could load/store one or more bytes into/from a register without
affecting the other bits.

For more general work, masking operations were available in the
32-bit registers.

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On Thursday, February 27, 2020 at 7:03:27 PM UTC-8, rob...@dodo.com.au wrote:

On 2020-02-28 09:23, gah4@u.washington.edu wrote:

Machines not so well designed require masking off the appropriate
bits before operating with them.

(snip)

Who can say that the CDC machines (7600; 70 series, etc) were not
well designed?

They were intended to be fast, and to carry out operations on
words (of 60 bits).

CDC machines are designed for fast floating point number crunching.

They are not necessarily designed for fast character manipulation,
as that is supposed to be a relatively small part of the work.

The hardware/software tradeoffs were different so many years ago.

My favorite one has always been how the IBM 704 (and I believe
later 36 bit machines) read in cards. The read row-wise, each row
into two 36 bit words, leaving off 8 columns. This is also the reason
why Fortran (fixed form) uses columns 1-72.

Anyway, after the compiler reads in a card row-wise, it has to
convert to columnwise (six characters per word), including converting
to the appropriate character code. But it presumably saves a lot of
logic in the card reader, where it would be expensive and could be
done in software. The 7094 was the high-end number cruncher at
the time, including its use for S/360 emulation during its development.

But actually, as well as I know, the more usual way to run such
machines was to copy cards to tape, presumably in a cheaper machine,
so that the fast machine didn't waste so much time.

I don't know about the 60 bit machines, but there are stories
about C compilers for Cray machines using 64 bit char.

As with the CDC machines, Cray machines are designed for fast floating
point, and not so fast for fixed point.
[This is getting rather far from compilers but would be totally on-topic
in alt.folklore.computers. -John]

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