1. Forum
  2. Usenet
  3. COMP.ARCH.EMBEDDED

  • Renesas GreenPAK Sales/FAE Support

    From Rick C@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 9 15:39:19 2022
    I've been considering a Greenpak device or two or even three, in a respin of a new design. I've identified three functions that the Greenpak devices could replace on my board, but not all in the same part! LOL

    I'd like to discuss this design with an FAE or salesperson, but I can't seem to get any replies. The Renesas website was clearly created by pointy haired bosses in legion with artistic web designers, with little regard to the process of sharing
    information. The contact page has controls for specifying your region of the world, but they seem to do nothing.

    Does anyone have a US contact for these parts? One of the things I want to learn about is what happens once you hand them a design file for a preprogrammed part. They basically say, you give them the design file, and a few months later you get a part.
    No mention of part numbering, marking, etc.

    I'd like this to become a private label part, with no Greenpak markings. Just a customer part number. Anyone done that before?

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Rick C on Mon Oct 10 11:12:21 2022
    Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
    Does anyone have a US contact for these parts? One of the things I want
    to learn about is what happens once you hand them a design file for a preprogrammed part. They basically say, you give them the design file,
    and a few months later you get a part. No mention of part numbering, marking, etc.

    I'd like this to become a private label part, with no Greenpak markings. Just a customer part number. Anyone done that before?

    There's a forum (the TLS cert has expired on 30 September):

    "All GPAKs with the customers' designs have their own PartNumber, which is marked on the top of the IC. Since SLG46620G is the TSOP package, the PartNumber written on the top of it will include five digits "XXXXX". The digits are assigned by DialogSemiconductors and they are unique for every particular IC. However, the smaller packages can't fit the five digits, so additionally the IC will be given two-letter code, which accords to the previously assigned PartNumber.

    Also, there will be marked the design revision. Typically, it consists of
    two letters, which differentiate the project revisions.

    So you don't need to add some extra marks, the ICs will be marked and you
    can easily distinguish them. "

    https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/forums/post/greenpak-and-greenfet-questions/part-markings


    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Theo on Mon Oct 10 07:43:41 2022
    On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 6:12:30 AM UTC-4, Theo wrote:
    Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Does anyone have a US contact for these parts? One of the things I want
    to learn about is what happens once you hand them a design file for a preprogrammed part. They basically say, you give them the design file,
    and a few months later you get a part. No mention of part numbering, marking, etc.

    I'd like this to become a private label part, with no Greenpak markings. Just a customer part number. Anyone done that before?
    There's a forum (the TLS cert has expired on 30 September):

    "All GPAKs with the customers' designs have their own PartNumber, which is marked on the top of the IC. Since SLG46620G is the TSOP package, the PartNumber written on the top of it will include five digits "XXXXX". The digits are assigned by DialogSemiconductors and they are unique for every particular IC. However, the smaller packages can't fit the five digits, so additionally the IC will be given two-letter code, which accords to the previously assigned PartNumber.

    Also, there will be marked the design revision. Typically, it consists of two letters, which differentiate the project revisions.

    So you don't need to add some extra marks, the ICs will be marked and you can easily distinguish them. "

    https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/forums/post/greenpak-and-greenfet-questions/part-markings

    Thanks. That post is what I was looking for. The subsequent exchange actually answers my questions.

    "Thank you for the good response. This is important information; I am glad there is a way to distinguish the parts.

    Our intention is for the Dialog semi products to become the platform for us to build our products. The power and flexibility is unmatched.
    However, some of our products might be just "single chip only", and thus it is desirable to have our own custom logos + PN's engraved on it.
    What would you suggest here?"


    "RobertLengyel,

    Unfortunately, we can't provide you the product with your own logos and PN engraved on it. If we did start to accept custom marking specs from our customers, I would be concerned that the quality level would not be as high, as we would be forcing many
    people inside Dialog to do something that was non-standard, which always adds extra risk for mistakes. The production processes are optimized for the highest throughput and lowest cost, so we do not allow for any other marking style other than our own."

    Kind of a weird reply, "forcing many people inside Dialog to do something that was non-standard". If they made private labeling an option in their process, it would not be "non-standard".

    To be honest, I'm rather turned off by the near total lack of communication on the part of Renesas and their distributors. It seems they think communication is a one way street.

    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 10 11:19:56 2022
    I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol

    --

    Rick C.

    -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From boB@21:1/5 to gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com on Sun Oct 23 13:34:13 2022
    On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

    I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol

    We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them !

    First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications guys.

    I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at Dialog
    before Resesas took over.

    boB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to boB on Mon Oct 24 14:08:01 2022
    On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol
    We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them !

    First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications guys.

    I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at Dialog
    before Resesas took over.

    Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed?

    --

    Rick C.

    -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From boB@21:1/5 to gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com on Wed Nov 9 14:07:27 2022
    On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT), Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol
    We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them !

    First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications guys.

    I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at Dialog
    before Resesas took over.

    Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed?

    You can get them pre-programmed but so far, we program them ourselves.

    We are expecting to be able to re-program them in circuit using the
    I2C bus from the processor. Actually, what happens there is that the
    original programming stays and you overwrite the RAM LTUs is how I
    think it works. I have not had a chance to get that working yet.

    I really like these parts !

    boB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to boB on Wed Nov 9 15:01:52 2022
    On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 6:07:33 PM UTC-4, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol
    We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them !

    First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications guys.

    I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at Dialog
    before Resesas took over.

    Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed?
    You can get them pre-programmed but so far, we program them ourselves.

    We are expecting to be able to re-program them in circuit using the
    I2C bus from the processor. Actually, what happens there is that the original programming stays and you overwrite the RAM LTUs is how I
    think it works. I have not had a chance to get that working yet.

    I really like these parts !

    My design has no processor. It has an FPGA, but with no external connection through conventional channels. Programming the device on board would require a custom interface... very undesirable. There's also the small issue of the fact that we are
    looking at building thousands of these per year. I'm planning on a redesign of the test fixtures to further automate the testing so we can load 160 UUTs into a chassis, and do test overnight as burn-in. The FPGAs will be preprogrammed. Having to
    program the tiny power supply chip (the one that might be useful to me has 4 LDOs) would be a major drawback. In fact, it might be difficult since it is providing power to the rest of the board.

    I might provide a couple of test points which can be used for spring loaded contacts should there arise a need to reprogram units in the field. The current board design has such a connection for the FPGA, but that's part of the connector interface
    defined by the application, so not an add on. This board is very small and very tight.

    I don't know if this application is such a good idea for a first go at using these parts. It's very crucial to the functioning of the entire board.

    --

    Rick C.

    +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to boB on Thu Nov 10 09:14:29 2022
    On 09/11/2022 23:07, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT), Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol
    We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them !

    First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications guys.

    I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at Dialog
    before Resesas took over.

    Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed?

    You can get them pre-programmed but so far, we program them ourselves.

    We are expecting to be able to re-program them in circuit using the
    I2C bus from the processor. Actually, what happens there is that the original programming stays and you overwrite the RAM LTUs is how I
    think it works. I have not had a chance to get that working yet.

    I really like these parts !


    I haven't used GreenPAK devices, but they do look interesting. We had a distributor FAE here recently who was planning to talk about them, but
    we used so much time on other topics that we didn't get round to it.
    And another distributor has been telling us about the benefits of
    Renesas microcontrollers and Renesas as a supplier.

    If you program the parts yourself, how do you do that? Do you use the
    GreenPAK boards for programming? That would seem fine for small
    quantities or development, but not great for production. It must also
    be an issue when you need to change the program during development.

    Programming in-circuit using I²C would be practical for us in many
    cases, but it makes a big difference if it is volatile or non-volatile.
    Volatile programming would need to be done from a microcontroller on power-on, and that obviously won't work if the GreenPAK is used to
    control board power. But programming the device's flash via a small
    connector and external I²C master could work as part of a board's test
    and programming procedure.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to David Brown on Thu Nov 10 08:34:34 2022
    On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 4:14:35 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
    On 09/11/2022 23:07, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol
    We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them !

    First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications guys.

    I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at Dialog
    before Resesas took over.

    Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed?

    You can get them pre-programmed but so far, we program them ourselves.

    We are expecting to be able to re-program them in circuit using the
    I2C bus from the processor. Actually, what happens there is that the original programming stays and you overwrite the RAM LTUs is how I
    think it works. I have not had a chance to get that working yet.

    I really like these parts !

    I haven't used GreenPAK devices, but they do look interesting. We had a distributor FAE here recently who was planning to talk about them, but
    we used so much time on other topics that we didn't get round to it.
    And another distributor has been telling us about the benefits of
    Renesas microcontrollers and Renesas as a supplier.

    If you program the parts yourself, how do you do that? Do you use the GreenPAK boards for programming? That would seem fine for small
    quantities or development, but not great for production. It must also
    be an issue when you need to change the program during development.

    Programming in-circuit using I²C would be practical for us in many
    cases, but it makes a big difference if it is volatile or non-volatile. Volatile programming would need to be done from a microcontroller on power-on, and that obviously won't work if the GreenPAK is used to
    control board power. But programming the device's flash via a small connector and external I²C master could work as part of a board's test
    and programming procedure.

    GreenPak is like the Lattice FPGAs, non-volatile storage that is loaded into RAM at power on. The Greenpak devices have two types, OTP and multiple time programmable.

    I could get some real use out of them, but the parts are a bit more specialized than I'd like. I could use an op amp with filtering (one part), 5V to 3V digital signal conversion (another part) and several LDOs (yet another part). The digital input/
    output voltages are limited to whatever is defined by the power supply. While they talk about combing digital and analog, by "analog" they mostly mean comparators. There's only one part with useful opamps (maybe a couple of flavors of that part, I don'
    t recall).

    Renesas has not done them any favors. Their web site is a PITA. The selection guides are not easy to use. Like many companies, you need to know the products before you can use the selection guides.

    --

    Rick C.

    ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Rick C on Thu Nov 10 19:18:07 2022
    On 10/11/2022 17:34, Rick C wrote:
    On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 4:14:35 AM UTC-4, David Brown
    wrote:
    On 09/11/2022 23:07, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL
    for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol
    We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them !

    First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications
    guys.

    I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at
    Dialog before Resesas took over.

    Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or
    multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed?

    You can get them pre-programmed but so far, we program them
    ourselves.

    We are expecting to be able to re-program them in circuit using
    the I2C bus from the processor. Actually, what happens there is
    that the original programming stays and you overwrite the RAM
    LTUs is how I think it works. I have not had a chance to get that
    working yet.

    I really like these parts !

    I haven't used GreenPAK devices, but they do look interesting. We
    had a distributor FAE here recently who was planning to talk about
    them, but we used so much time on other topics that we didn't get
    round to it. And another distributor has been telling us about the
    benefits of Renesas microcontrollers and Renesas as a supplier.

    If you program the parts yourself, how do you do that? Do you use
    the GreenPAK boards for programming? That would seem fine for
    small quantities or development, but not great for production. It
    must also be an issue when you need to change the program during
    development.

    Programming in-circuit using I²C would be practical for us in many
    cases, but it makes a big difference if it is volatile or
    non-volatile. Volatile programming would need to be done from a
    microcontroller on power-on, and that obviously won't work if the
    GreenPAK is used to control board power. But programming the
    device's flash via a small connector and external I²C master could
    work as part of a board's test and programming procedure.

    GreenPak is like the Lattice FPGAs, non-volatile storage that is
    loaded into RAM at power on.

    Isn't that the most common way to handle programmable logic these days?
    (Of course, not all devices have the non-volatile storage on-chip.)

    The Greenpak devices have two types,
    OTP and multiple time programmable.

    Yes, that's what I thought. I don't expect to be using enough volume
    for the OTP versions, and of course there is the strong tradition of
    changing software (meaning anything programmable) right up until the
    last moment. But maybe they have fast enough turnaround and low enough
    minimum order quantities for factory programmed versions to be suitable
    for some of our customers. Certainly it would make production a little
    more efficient.


    I could get some real use out of them, but the parts are a bit more specialized than I'd like. I could use an op amp with filtering (one
    part), 5V to 3V digital signal conversion (another part) and several
    LDOs (yet another part). The digital input/output voltages are
    limited to whatever is defined by the power supply. While they talk
    about combing digital and analog, by "analog" they mostly mean
    comparators. There's only one part with useful opamps (maybe a
    couple of flavors of that part, I don't recall).

    Renesas has not done them any favors. Their web site is a PITA. The selection guides are not easy to use. Like many companies, you need
    to know the products before you can use the selection guides.


    Thanks for the review. I don't currently have a design in the pipeline
    for which they would be a good solution, but it's always nice to keep
    different ideas in mind. And it's always fun to play with new toys :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to David Brown on Thu Nov 10 17:04:09 2022
    On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 2:18:13 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
    On 10/11/2022 17:34, Rick C wrote:
    On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 4:14:35 AM UTC-4, David Brown
    wrote:
    On 09/11/2022 23:07, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL
    for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol
    We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them !

    First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications
    guys.

    I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at
    Dialog before Resesas took over.

    Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or
    multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed?

    You can get them pre-programmed but so far, we program them
    ourselves.

    We are expecting to be able to re-program them in circuit using
    the I2C bus from the processor. Actually, what happens there is
    that the original programming stays and you overwrite the RAM
    LTUs is how I think it works. I have not had a chance to get that
    working yet.

    I really like these parts !

    I haven't used GreenPAK devices, but they do look interesting. We
    had a distributor FAE here recently who was planning to talk about
    them, but we used so much time on other topics that we didn't get
    round to it. And another distributor has been telling us about the
    benefits of Renesas microcontrollers and Renesas as a supplier.

    If you program the parts yourself, how do you do that? Do you use
    the GreenPAK boards for programming? That would seem fine for
    small quantities or development, but not great for production. It
    must also be an issue when you need to change the program during
    development.

    Programming in-circuit using I²C would be practical for us in many
    cases, but it makes a big difference if it is volatile or
    non-volatile. Volatile programming would need to be done from a
    microcontroller on power-on, and that obviously won't work if the
    GreenPAK is used to control board power. But programming the
    device's flash via a small connector and external I²C master could
    work as part of a board's test and programming procedure.

    GreenPak is like the Lattice FPGAs, non-volatile storage that is
    loaded into RAM at power on.
    Isn't that the most common way to handle programmable logic these days?
    (Of course, not all devices have the non-volatile storage on-chip.)
    The Greenpak devices have two types,
    OTP and multiple time programmable.
    Yes, that's what I thought. I don't expect to be using enough volume
    for the OTP versions

    I don't think you understand. Some parts are OTP, others are multiple. You don't get a choice.


    and of course there is the strong tradition of
    changing software (meaning anything programmable) right up until the
    last moment. But maybe they have fast enough turnaround and low enough minimum order quantities for factory programmed versions to be suitable
    for some of our customers. Certainly it would make production a little
    more efficient.

    They have a process, and I've not heard any indication they are fast about it. I believe it takes weeks to turn around a new design and sign off on all the approvals.


    I could get some real use out of them, but the parts are a bit more specialized than I'd like. I could use an op amp with filtering (one part), 5V to 3V digital signal conversion (another part) and several
    LDOs (yet another part). The digital input/output voltages are
    limited to whatever is defined by the power supply. While they talk
    about combing digital and analog, by "analog" they mostly mean comparators. There's only one part with useful opamps (maybe a
    couple of flavors of that part, I don't recall).

    Renesas has not done them any favors. Their web site is a PITA. The selection guides are not easy to use. Like many companies, you need
    to know the products before you can use the selection guides.

    Thanks for the review. I don't currently have a design in the pipeline
    for which they would be a good solution, but it's always nice to keep different ideas in mind. And it's always fun to play with new toys :-)

    --

    Rick C.

    --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Rick C on Fri Nov 11 08:17:41 2022
    On 11/11/2022 02:04, Rick C wrote:
    On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 2:18:13 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
    On 10/11/2022 17:34, Rick C wrote:
    On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 4:14:35 AM UTC-4, David Brown
    wrote:
    On 09/11/2022 23:07, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL
    for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol
    We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them !

    First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications
    guys.

    I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at
    Dialog before Resesas took over.

    Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or
    multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed?

    You can get them pre-programmed but so far, we program them
    ourselves.

    We are expecting to be able to re-program them in circuit using
    the I2C bus from the processor. Actually, what happens there is
    that the original programming stays and you overwrite the RAM
    LTUs is how I think it works. I have not had a chance to get that
    working yet.

    I really like these parts !

    I haven't used GreenPAK devices, but they do look interesting. We
    had a distributor FAE here recently who was planning to talk about
    them, but we used so much time on other topics that we didn't get
    round to it. And another distributor has been telling us about the
    benefits of Renesas microcontrollers and Renesas as a supplier.

    If you program the parts yourself, how do you do that? Do you use
    the GreenPAK boards for programming? That would seem fine for
    small quantities or development, but not great for production. It
    must also be an issue when you need to change the program during
    development.

    Programming in-circuit using I²C would be practical for us in many
    cases, but it makes a big difference if it is volatile or
    non-volatile. Volatile programming would need to be done from a
    microcontroller on power-on, and that obviously won't work if the
    GreenPAK is used to control board power. But programming the
    device's flash via a small connector and external I²C master could
    work as part of a board's test and programming procedure.

    GreenPak is like the Lattice FPGAs, non-volatile storage that is
    loaded into RAM at power on.
    Isn't that the most common way to handle programmable logic these days?
    (Of course, not all devices have the non-volatile storage on-chip.)
    The Greenpak devices have two types,
    OTP and multiple time programmable.
    Yes, that's what I thought. I don't expect to be using enough volume
    for the OTP versions

    I don't think you understand. Some parts are OTP, others are multiple. You don't get a choice.


    OK. I had assumed the same parts were available in both varieties. Or
    that within a family, the biggest (superset) part would have a flash
    variant while the other parts would be OTP only. This sort of
    arrangement is common for devices with OTP options.


    and of course there is the strong tradition of
    changing software (meaning anything programmable) right up until the
    last moment. But maybe they have fast enough turnaround and low enough
    minimum order quantities for factory programmed versions to be suitable
    for some of our customers. Certainly it would make production a little
    more efficient.

    They have a process, and I've not heard any indication they are fast about it. I believe it takes weeks to turn around a new design and sign off on all the approvals.


    "Weeks" sounds quite fast for such a process - and with component lead
    time as it is at the moment, that does not sound worse than many normal components. Of course, 52 weeks is still "weeks"...


    I could get some real use out of them, but the parts are a bit more
    specialized than I'd like. I could use an op amp with filtering (one
    part), 5V to 3V digital signal conversion (another part) and several
    LDOs (yet another part). The digital input/output voltages are
    limited to whatever is defined by the power supply. While they talk
    about combing digital and analog, by "analog" they mostly mean
    comparators. There's only one part with useful opamps (maybe a
    couple of flavors of that part, I don't recall).

    Renesas has not done them any favors. Their web site is a PITA. The
    selection guides are not easy to use. Like many companies, you need
    to know the products before you can use the selection guides.

    Thanks for the review. I don't currently have a design in the pipeline
    for which they would be a good solution, but it's always nice to keep
    different ideas in mind. And it's always fun to play with new toys :-)


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Nadler@21:1/5 to Rick C on Wed Nov 16 13:50:59 2022
    On 10/9/2022 6:39 PM, Rick C wrote:
    I've been considering a Greenpak device or two or even three, in a respin of a new design. I've identified three functions that the Greenpak devices could replace on my board, but not all in the same part! LOL

    I'd like to discuss this design with an FAE or salesperson, but I can't seem to get any replies. The Renesas website was clearly created by pointy haired bosses in legion with artistic web designers, with little regard to the process of sharing
    information. The contact page has controls for specifying your region of the world, but they seem to do nothing.

    Does anyone have a US contact for these parts? One of the things I want to learn about is what happens once you hand them a design file for a preprogrammed part. They basically say, you give them the design file, and a few months later you get a part.
    No mention of part numbering, marking, etc.

    I'd like this to become a private label part, with no Greenpak markings. Just a customer part number. Anyone done that before?


    Perhaps this Renesas marketing presentation is of interest: https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/electronica/electronica-video-interview-renesas-on-greenpak-programmable-mixed-signal-matrix-2022-11/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Dave Nadler on Wed Nov 16 14:09:10 2022
    On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:51:03 PM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
    On 10/9/2022 6:39 PM, Rick C wrote:
    I've been considering a Greenpak device or two or even three, in a respin of a new design. I've identified three functions that the Greenpak devices could replace on my board, but not all in the same part! LOL

    I'd like to discuss this design with an FAE or salesperson, but I can't seem to get any replies. The Renesas website was clearly created by pointy haired bosses in legion with artistic web designers, with little regard to the process of sharing
    information. The contact page has controls for specifying your region of the world, but they seem to do nothing.

    Does anyone have a US contact for these parts? One of the things I want to learn about is what happens once you hand them a design file for a preprogrammed part. They basically say, you give them the design file, and a few months later you get a part.
    No mention of part numbering, marking, etc.

    I'd like this to become a private label part, with no Greenpak markings. Just a customer part number. Anyone done that before?
    Perhaps this Renesas marketing presentation is of interest: https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/electronica/electronica-video-interview-renesas-on-greenpak-programmable-mixed-signal-matrix-2022-11/

    Thanks, but I'm not in marketing. I'm an engineer, so an engineering presentation might be better.

    I did finally have a conversation with someone and they simply don't have very many parts that would be of use. The audio parts don't do anything useful for me, that my op amps don't already do. Their level shifting parts (dual power supply) don't do
    anything that other level shifter parts don't do. They have an LDO part that might be of use. It can also provide an inverter needed in the reset path. So there is some very minimal about of functional incorporation in this one part.

    It seems the product line is oriented around the programmable logic. If you can't make good use of that, the rest of the device is of much less utility... unless that combination just happens to fit what you need.

    --

    Rick C.

    --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)