• Zionism = racism

    From Delma T. Ivey@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 10:06:17 2023
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    A correct equation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Reg@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 17:37:28 2023
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    A correct equation.


    Just kill all the semites in the middle east and say goodbye to the joos and the sandniggers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Delma T. Ivey on Thu Oct 19 10:34:58 2023
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    On 10/19/23 10:06, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    A correct equation.

    That is false.
    The Jewish people have every right to their own
    homeland where they can enjoy self determination.

    Winston Churchill and Harry Truman made proper
    decisions along with the majority of the U.N.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Delma T. Ivey@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 11:46:36 2023
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    On 10/19/2023 10:34 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 10:06, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    A correct equation.

    That is false.

    It is not.

    The Jewish people have every right to their own
    homeland where they can enjoy self determination.

    They don't have any right as Jews to a homeland, and certainly not when it means
    denying an equal right to a homeland to Palestinians.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Klaus Schadenfreude@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 11:36:36 2023
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    [Default] Rudy "Cunt Flaps" Canoza typed:

    A correct equation.

    Rudy's hatred-- and jealousy-- of Jews is well known and documented.

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  • From Max Boot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 13:36:46 2023
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    On 10/19/2023 10:34 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 10:06, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    A correct equation.

    That is false.

    It's not.

    The Jewish people have every right to their own
    homeland where they can enjoy self determination.

    Why do Jews have a right to a homeland, with full autonomy, and Palestinians don't?

    Do Presbyterians have a right to a homeland? How about Zoroastrians?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Max Boot on Thu Oct 19 15:25:35 2023
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    On 10/19/23 13:36, Max Boot wrote:
    On 10/19/2023 10:34 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 10:06, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    A correct equation.

    That is false.

    It's not.

    The Jewish people have every right to their own
    homeland where they can enjoy self determination.

    Why do Jews have a right to a homeland, with full autonomy, and
    Palestinians don't?

    Do Presbyterians have a right to a homeland? How about Zoroastrians?


    Again,

    Yes, the Palestinians do deserve a right to a homeland.
    They were offered one, just as the Jews were offered one
    when the UK gave up it's UN mandate.
    The Jews accepted what was offered, even tho it was far
    from ideal. They created Israel, and have flourished
    and they made the desert bloom.
    The Palestinians refused to share, and decided to kill
    the Jews rather than share. Surprise! Even with the
    Armies of five nations helping the Palestinians,
    they failed.

    And have been consumed by hatred, and refusal to share
    for the last 75 years. Every time the Palestinians
    are offered a chance to have their own state and
    live in peace, they refuse.

    Please read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

    Winston Churchill and Harry Truman and the vote of
    the United Nations were correct and fair.

    It is not their fault that the Palestinians have
    been so terrible in following BAD LEADERSHIP!
    Time after time, for 75 years they have made
    horrible decisions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Delma T. Ivey@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 15:47:25 2023
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    On 10/19/2023 3:17 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 11:46, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    On 10/19/2023 10:34 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 10:06, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    A correct equation.

    That is false.

    It is not.

    The Jewish people have every right to their own
    homeland where they can enjoy self determination.

    They don't have any right as Jews to a homeland, and certainly not when it >> means denying an equal right to a homeland to Palestinians.


    Yes, the Palestinians do deserve a right to a homeland.

    In Palestine.

    They were offered one,

    No, they weren't.

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a homeland? And why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine, when establishing it *necessarily* means dispossessing people already there?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Max Boot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 15:49:47 2023
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    On 10/19/2023 3:25 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 13:36, Max Boot wrote:
    On 10/19/2023 10:34 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 10:06, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    A correct equation.

    That is false.

    It's not.

    The Jewish people have every right to their own
    homeland where they can enjoy self determination.

    Why do Jews have a right to a homeland, with full autonomy, and Palestinians >> don't?

    Do Presbyterians have a right to a homeland? How about Zoroastrians?


    Again,

    You whiffed off. You didn't answer the questions.

    Try again: *why* do Jews have a right to a homeland, with full autonomy, and Palestinians don't? Do Presbyterians have a "right" to a homeland? Why or why not?

    Stop being a gutless chickenshit, and answer the questions posed. Don't make up your own puffball questions; answer the questions posed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Delma T. Ivey on Thu Oct 19 15:17:28 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On 10/19/23 11:46, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    On 10/19/2023 10:34 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 10:06, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    A correct equation.

    That is false.

    It is not.

    The Jewish people have every right to their own
    homeland where they can enjoy self determination.

    They don't have any right as Jews to a homeland, and certainly not when
    it means denying an equal right to a homeland to Palestinians.


    Yes, the Palestinians do deserve a right to a homeland.
    They were offered one, just as the Jews were offered one
    when the UK gave up it's UN mandate.
    The Jews accepted what was offered, even tho it was far
    from ideal. They created Israel, and have flourished
    and they made the desert bloom.
    The Palestinians refused to share, and decided to kill
    the Jews rather than share. Surprise! Even with the
    Armies of five nations helping the Palestinians,
    they failed.

    And have been consumed by hatred, and refusal to share
    for the last 75 years. Every time the Palestinians
    are offered a chance to have their own state and
    live in peace, they refuse.

    Please read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

    Contents hide
    (Top)
    Background
    United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP)
    Toggle United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) subsection
    Ad hoc Committee
    Toggle Ad hoc Committee subsection
    The vote
    Toggle The vote subsection
    Reactions
    Toggle Reactions subsection
    Subsequent events
    Toggle Subsequent events subsection
    See also
    References
    Bibliography
    Further reading
    External links
    United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine

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    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "Partition of Palestine" redirects here. For the partition of Palestine
    into Israel, the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank, see 1949 Armistice
    Agreements.
    UN General Assembly
    Resolution 181 (II)

    UNSCOP (3 September 1947; see green line) and UN Ad Hoc Committee (25
    November 1947) partition plans. The UN Ad Hoc Committee proposal was
    voted on in the resolution.
    Date 29 November 1947
    Meeting no. 128
    Code A/RES/181(II) (Document)
    Voting summary
    33 voted for
    13 voted against
    10 abstained
    Result Adopted
    The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a proposal by the
    United Nations, which recommended a partition of Mandatory Palestine at
    the end of the British Mandate. On 29 November 1947, the UN General
    Assembly adopted the Plan as Resolution 181 (II).[1]

    The resolution recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish
    States and a Special International Regime for the city of Jerusalem. The Partition Plan, a four-part document attached to the resolution,
    provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal
    of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the
    two States and Jerusalem. Part I of the Plan stipulated that the Mandate
    would be terminated as soon as possible and the United Kingdom would
    withdraw no later than 1 August 1948. The new states would come into
    existence two months after the withdrawal, but no later than 1 October
    1948. The Plan sought to address the conflicting objectives and claims
    of two competing movements, Palestinian nationalism and Jewish
    nationalism, or Zionism.[2][3] The Plan also called for Economic Union
    between the proposed states, and for the protection of religious and
    minority rights.[4] While Jewish organizations collaborated with UNSCOP
    during the deliberations, the Palestinian Arab leadership boycotted it.[5]

    The proposed plan is considered to have been pro-Zionist by its
    detractors, with 62% of the land allocated to the Jewish state despite
    the Palestinian Arab population numbering twice the Jewish
    population.[6] Consequently, the partition plan was accepted by Jewish
    Agency for Palestine and most Zionist factions who viewed it as a
    stepping stone to territorial expansion at an opportune time.[7][5] The
    Arab Higher Committee, the Arab League and other Arab leaders and
    governments rejected it on the basis that in addition to the Arabs
    forming a two-thirds majority, they owned a majority of the lands.[8][9]
    They also indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division,[10] arguing that it violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter which granted people the right to
    decide their own destiny.[5][11] They announced their intention to take
    all necessary measures to prevent the implementation of the resolution.[12][13][14][15] Subsequently a civil war broke out in
    Palestine[16] and the plan was not implemented.[17]

    Background
    The British administration was formalized by the League of Nations under
    the Palestine Mandate in 1923, as part of the Partitioning of the
    Ottoman Empire following World War I. The Mandate reaffirmed the 1917
    British commitment to the Balfour Declaration, for the establishment in Palestine of a "National Home" for the Jewish people, with the
    prerogative to carry it out.[18][19] A British census of 1918 estimated
    700,000 Arabs and 56,000 Jews.[18]

    In 1937, following a six-month-long Arab General Strike and armed
    insurrection which aimed to pursue national independence and secure the
    country from foreign control, the British established the Peel
    Commission.[20] The Commission concluded that the Mandate had become unworkable, and recommended Partition into an Arab state linked to
    Transjordan; a small Jewish state; and a mandatory zone. To address
    problems arising from the presence of national minorities in each area,
    it suggested a land and population transfer[21] involving the transfer
    of some 225,000 Arabs living in the envisaged Jewish state and 1,250
    Jews living in a future Arab state, a measure deemed compulsory "in the
    last resort".[21][22][23] To address any economic problems, the Plan
    proposed avoiding interfering with Jewish immigration, since any
    interference would be liable to produce an "economic crisis", most of Palestine's wealth coming from the Jewish community. To solve the
    predicted annual budget deficit of the Arab State and reduction in
    public services due to loss of tax from the Jewish state, it was
    proposed that the Jewish state pay an annual subsidy to the Arab state
    and take on half of the latter's deficit.[21][22][24] The Palestinian
    Arab leadership rejected partition as unacceptable, given the inequality
    in the proposed population exchange and the transfer of one-third of
    Palestine, including most of its best agricultural land, to recent immigrants.[23] The Jewish leaders, Chaim Weizmann and David Ben-Gurion, persuaded the Zionist Congress to lend provisional approval to the Peel recommendations as a basis for further negotiations.[25][26][27][28] In
    a letter to his son in October 1937, Ben-Gurion explained that partition
    would be a first step to "possession of the land as a
    whole".[29][30][31] The same sentiment, that acceptance of partition was
    a temporary measure beyond which the Palestine would be "redeemed . . in
    its entirety,"[32] was recorded by Ben-Gurion on other occasions, such
    as at a meeting of the Jewish Agency executive in June 1938,[33] as well
    as by Chaim Weizmann.[31][34]

    The British Woodhead Commission was set up to examine the practicality
    of partition. The Peel plan was rejected and two possible alternatives
    were considered. In 1938 the British government issued a policy
    statement declaring that "the political, administrative and financial difficulties involved in the proposal to create independent Arab and
    Jewish States inside Palestine are so great that this solution of the
    problem is impracticable". Representatives of Arabs and Jews were
    invited to London for the St. James Conference, which proved
    unsuccessful.[35]

    With World War II looming, British policies were influenced by a desire
    to win Arab world support and could ill afford to engage with another
    Arab uprising.[36] The MacDonald White Paper of May 1939 declared that
    it was "not part of [the British government's] policy that Palestine
    should become a Jewish State", sought to limit Jewish immigration to
    Palestine and restricted Arab land sales to Jews. However, the League of Nations commission held that the White Paper was in conflict with the
    terms of the Mandate as put forth in the past. The outbreak of the
    Second World War suspended any further deliberations.[37][38] The Jewish
    Agency hoped to persuade the British to restore Jewish immigration
    rights, and cooperated with the British in the war against Fascism.
    Aliyah Bet was organized to spirit Jews out of Nazi controlled Europe,
    despite the British prohibitions. The White Paper also led to the
    formation of Lehi, a small Jewish organization which opposed the British.

    After World War II, in August 1945 President Truman asked for the
    admission of 100,000 Holocaust survivors into Palestine[39] but the
    British maintained limits on Jewish immigration in line with the 1939
    White Paper. The Jewish community rejected the restriction on
    immigration and organized an armed resistance. These actions and United
    States pressure to end the anti-immigration policy led to the
    establishment of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry. In April 1946,
    the Committee reached a unanimous decision for the immediate admission
    of 100,000 Jewish refugees from Europe into Palestine, rescission of the
    white paper restrictions of land sale to Jews, that the country be
    neither Arab nor Jewish, and the extension of U.N. Trusteeship. The U.S. endorsed the Commission's findings concerning Jewish immigration and
    land purchase restrictions,[40] while the British made their agreement
    to implementation conditional on U.S. assistance in case of another Arab revolt.[40] In effect, the British continued to carry out their White
    Paper policy.[41] The recommendations triggered violent demonstrations
    in the Arab states, and calls for a Jihad and an annihilation of all
    European Jews in Palestine.[42]

    United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP)
    Further information: UNSCOP

    Map showing Jewish-owned land as of 31 December 1944, including land
    owned in full, shared in undivided land, and State Lands under
    concession. This constituted 6% of the total land area or 20% of
    cultivatable land,[43] of which more than half was held by the JNF and
    PICA[44]
    Under the terms of League of Nations A-class mandates each such
    mandatory territory was to become a sovereign state on termination of
    its mandate. By the end of World War II, this occurred with all such
    mandates except Palestine, however the League of Nations itself lapsed
    in 1946 leading to a legal quandary.[45][46] In February 1947, Britain announced its intent to terminate the Mandate for Palestine, referring
    the matter of the future of Palestine to the United Nations.[47][48] The
    hope was that a binational state would ensue, which meant an
    unpartitioned Palestine. British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin's policy
    was premised on the idea that an Arab majority would carry the day,
    which met difficulties with Harry S. Truman who, sensitive to Zionist
    electoral pressures in the United States, pressed for a British-Zionist compromise.[49] In May, the UN formed the United Nations Special
    Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) to prepare a report on recommendations
    for Palestine. The Jewish Agency pressed for Jewish representation and
    the exclusion of both Britain and Arab countries on the Committee,
    sought visits to camps where Holocaust survivors were interned in Europe
    as part of UNSCOP's brief, and in May won representation on the
    Political Committee.[50] The Arab states, convinced statehood had been subverted, and that the transition of authority from the League of
    Nations to the UN was questionable in law, wished the issues to be
    brought before an International Court, and refused to collaborate with
    UNSCOP, which had extended an invitation for liaison also to the Arab
    Higher Committee.[46][51] In August, after three months of conducting
    hearings and a general survey of the situation in Palestine, a majority
    report of the committee recommended that the region be partitioned into
    an Arab state and a Jewish state, which should retain an economic union.
    An international regime was envisioned for Jerusalem.

    The Arab delegations at the UN had sought to keep separate the issue of Palestine from the issue of Jewish refugees in Europe. During their
    visit, UNSCOP members were shocked by the extent of Lehi and Irgun
    violence, then at its apogee, and by the elaborate military presence
    attested by endemic barb-wire, searchlights, and armoured-car patrols. Committee members also witnessed the SS Exodus affair in Haifa and could
    hardly have remained unaffected by it. On concluding their mission, they dispatched a subcommittee to investigate Jewish refugee camps in Europe.[52][53] The incident is mentioned in the report in relation to
    Jewish distrust and resentment concerning the British enforcement of the
    1939 White Paper.[54]

    UNSCOP report
    On 3 September 1947, the Committee reported to the General Assembly.
    CHAPTER V: PROPOSED RECOMMENDATIONS (I), Section A of the Report
    contained eleven proposed recommendations (I – XI) approved unanimously. Section B contained one proposed recommendation approved by a
    substantial majority dealing with the Jewish problem in general (XI).
    CHAPTER VI: PROPOSED RECOMMENDATIONS (II) contained a Plan of Partition
    with Economic Union to which seven members of the Committee (Canada, Czechoslovakia, Guatemala, the Netherlands, Peru, Sweden and Uruguay), expressed themselves in favour. CHAPTER VII RECOMMENDATIONS (III)
    contained a comprehensive proposal that was voted upon and supported by
    three members (India, Iran, and Yugoslavia) for a Federal State of
    Palestine. Australia abstained. In CHAPTER VIII a number of members of
    the Committee expressed certain reservations and observations.[55]

    Proposed partition
    See also: Land ownership of the British Mandate of Palestine

    Land ownership

    Population distribution
    Two maps reviewed by UN Subcommittee 2 in considering partition
    The report of the majority of the Committee (CHAPTER VI) envisaged the
    division of Palestine into three parts: an Arab State, a Jewish State
    and the City of Jerusalem, linked by extraterritorial crossroads. The
    proposed Arab State would include the central and part of western
    Galilee, with the town of Acre, the hill country of Samaria and Judea,
    an enclave at Jaffa, and the southern coast stretching from north of
    Isdud (now Ashdod) and encompassing what is now the Gaza Strip, with a
    section of desert along the Egyptian border. The proposed Jewish State
    would include the fertile Eastern Galilee, the Coastal Plain, stretching
    from Haifa to Rehovot and most of the Negev desert,[56] including the
    southern outpost of Umm Rashrash (now Eilat). The Jerusalem Corpus
    Separatum included Bethlehem and the surrounding areas.

    The primary objectives of the majority of the Committee were political
    division and economic unity between the two groups.[4] The Plan tried
    its best to accommodate as many Jews as possible into the Jewish State.
    In many specific cases,[citation needed] this meant including areas of
    Arab majority (but with a significant Jewish minority) in the Jewish
    state. Thus the Jewish State would have an overall large Arab minority.
    Areas that were sparsely populated (like the Negev desert), were also
    included in the Jewish state to create room for immigration. According
    to the plan, Jews and Arabs living in the Jewish state would become
    citizens of the Jewish state and Jews and Arabs living in the Arab state
    would become citizens of the Arab state.

    By virtue of Chapter 3, Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine
    outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not
    holding Palestinian citizenship, resided in Palestine outside the City
    of Jerusalem would, upon the recognition of independence, become
    citizens of the State in which they were resident and enjoy full civil
    and political rights.

    The Plan would have had the following demographics (data based on 1945).

    Territory Arab and other population % Arab and other Jewish population %
    Jewish Total population
    Arab State 725,000 99% 10,000 1% 735,000
    Jewish State 407,000 45% 498,000 55% 905,000
    International 105,000 51% 100,000 49% 205,000
    Total 1,237,000 67% 608,000 33% 1,845,000
    Data from the Report of UNSCOP: 3 September 1947: CHAPTER 4: A
    COMMENTARY ON PARTITION
    The land allocated to the Arab State in the final plan included about
    43% of Mandatory Palestine[57][58][59] and consisted of all of the
    highlands, except for Jerusalem, plus one-third of the coastline. The
    highlands contain the major aquifers of Palestine, which supplied water
    to the coastal cities of central Palestine, including Tel Aviv.[citation needed] The Jewish State allocated to the Jews, who constituted a third
    of the population and owned about 7% of the land, was to receive 56% of Mandatory Palestine, a slightly larger area to accommodate the
    increasing numbers of Jews who would immigrate there.[58][59][60] The
    Jewish State included three fertile lowland plains – the Sharon on the
    coast, the Jezreel Valley and the upper Jordan Valley. The bulk of the
    proposed Jewish State's territory, however, consisted of the Negev
    Desert,[56] which was not suitable for agriculture, nor for urban
    development at that time. The Jewish State would also be given sole
    access to the Sea of Galilee, crucial for its water supply, and the economically important Red Sea.

    The committee voted for the plan, 25 to 13 (with 17 abstentions and 2 absentees) on 25 November 1947 and the General Assembly was called back
    into a special session to vote on the proposal. Various sources noted
    that this was one vote short of the two-thirds majority required in the
    General Assembly.[60]

    Ad hoc Committee
    Map comparing the borders of the 1947 partition plan and the armistice
    of 1949.
    Boundaries defined in the 1947 UN Partition Plan for Palestine:

    Area assigned for a Jewish state
    Area assigned for an Arab state
    Planned Corpus separatum with the intention that Jerusalem would be neither Jewish nor Arab
    Armistice Demarcation Lines of 1949 (Green Line):

    Israeli controlled territory from 1949
    Egyptian and Jordanian controlled territory from 1948 until 1967
    Main article: Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question
    On 23 September 1947 the General Assembly established the Ad Hoc
    Committee on the Palestinian Question to consider the UNSCOP report. Representatives of the Arab Higher Committee and Jewish Agency were
    invited and attended.[61]

    During the committee's deliberations, the British government endorsed
    the report's recommendations concerning the end of the mandate,
    independence, and Jewish immigration.[citation needed] However, the
    British did "not feel able to implement" any agreement unless it was
    acceptable to both the Arabs and the Jews, and asked that the General
    Assembly provide an alternative implementing authority if that proved to
    be the case.

    The Arab Higher Committee rejected both the majority and minority recommendations within the UNSCOP report. They "concluded from a survey
    of Palestine history that Zionist claims to that country had no legal or
    moral basis". The Arab Higher Committee argued that only an Arab State
    in the whole of Palestine would be consistent with the UN Charter.

    The Jewish Agency expressed support for most of the UNSCOP
    recommendations, but emphasized the "intense urge" of the overwhelming
    majority of Jewish displaced persons to proceed to Palestine. The Jewish
    Agency criticized the proposed boundaries, especially in the Western
    Galilee and Western Jerusalem (outside of the old city), arguing that
    these should be included in the Jewish state. However, they agreed to
    accept the plan if "it would make possible the immediate
    re-establishment of the Jewish State with sovereign control of its own immigration."

    Arab states requested representation on the UN ad hoc subcommittees of
    October 1947, but were excluded from Subcommittee One, which had been
    delegated the specific task of studying and, if thought necessary,
    modifying the boundaries of the proposed partition.[62]

    Sub-Committee 2
    The Sub-Committee 2, set up on 23 October 1947 to draw up a detailed
    plan based on proposals of Arab states presented its report within a few weeks.[63]

    Based on a reproduced British report, the Sub-Committee 2 criticised the
    UNSCOP report for using inaccurate population figures, especially
    concerning the Bedouin population. The British report, dated 1 November
    1947, used the results of a new census in Beersheba in 1946 with
    additional use of aerial photographs, and an estimate of the population
    in other districts. It found that the size of the Bedouin population was greatly understated in former enumerations. In Beersheba, 3,389 Bedouin
    houses and 8,722 tents were counted. The total Bedouin population was
    estimated at approximately 127,000; only 22,000 of them normally
    resident in the Arab state under the UNSCOP majority plan. The British
    report stated:

    "the term Beersheba Bedouin has a meaning more definite than one would
    expect in the case of a nomad population. These tribes, wherever they
    are found in Palestine, will always describe themselves as Beersheba
    tribes. Their attachment to the area arises from their land rights there
    and their historic association with it."[64]

    In respect of the UNSCOP report, the Sub-Committee concluded that the
    earlier population "estimates must, however, be corrected in the light
    of the information furnished to the Sub-Committee by the representative
    of the United Kingdom regarding the Bedouin population. According to the statement, 22,000 Bedouins may be taken as normally residing in the
    areas allocated to the Arab State under the UNSCOP's majority plan, and
    the balance of 105,000 as resident in the proposed Jewish State. It will
    thus be seen that the proposed Jewish State will contain a total
    population of 1,008,800, consisting of 509,780 Arabs and 499,020 Jews.
    In other words, at the outset, the Arabs will have a majority in the
    proposed Jewish State."[65]

    The Sub-Committee 2 recommended to put the question of the Partition
    Plan before the International Court of Justice (Resolution No. I [66]).
    In respect of the Jewish refugees due to World War II, the Sub-Committee recommended to request the countries of which the refugees belonged to
    take them back as much as possible (Resolution No. II[67]). The
    Sub-Committee proposed to establish a unitary state (Resolution No.
    III[68]).

    Boundary changes
    The ad hoc committee made a number of boundary changes to the UNSCOP recommendations before they were voted on by the General Assembly.

    The predominantly Arab city of Jaffa, previously located within the
    Jewish state, was constituted as an enclave of the Arab State. The
    boundary of the Arab state was modified to include Beersheba and a strip
    of the Negev desert along the Egyptian border,[56] while a section of
    the Dead Sea shore and other additions were made to the Jewish State.
    This move increased the Jewish percentage in the Jewish state from 55%
    to 61%.[citation needed]

    The proposed boundaries would also have placed 54 Arab villages on the
    opposite side of the border from their farm land.[citation needed] In
    response, the United Nations Palestine Commission established in 1948
    was empowered to modify the boundaries "in such a way that village areas
    as a rule will not be divided by state boundaries unless pressing
    reasons make that necessary". These modifications never occurred.

    The vote

    Report of the Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question, document
    A/516, dated 25 November 1947. This was the document voted on by the UN
    General Assembly on 29 November 1947, and became known as the "United
    Nations Partition Plan for Palestine".[69]
    Passage of the resolution required a two-thirds majority of the valid
    votes, not counting abstaining and absent members, of the UN's then 57
    member states. On 26 November, after filibustering by the Zionist
    delegation, the vote was postponed by three days.[70][71] According to
    multiple sources, had the vote been held on the original set date, it
    would have received a majority, but less than the required two-thirds.[71][72][73] Various compromise proposals and variations on a
    single state, including federations and cantonal systems were debated (including those previously rejected in committee).[74][75] The delay
    was used by supporters of Zionism in New York to put extra pressure on
    states not supporting the resolution.[70]

    Reports of pressure for and against the Plan
    Reports of pressure for the Plan
    Zionists launched an intense White House lobby to have the UNSCOP plan endorsed, and the effects were not trivial.[76] The Democratic Party, a
    large part of whose contributions came from Jews,[77] informed Truman
    that failure to live up to promises to support the Jews in Palestine
    would constitute a danger to the party. The defection of Jewish votes in congressional elections in 1946 had contributed to electoral losses.
    Truman was, according to Roger Cohen, embittered by feelings of being a
    hostage to the lobby and its 'unwarranted interference', which he blamed
    for the contemporary impasse. When a formal American declaration in
    favour of partition was given on 11 October, a public relations
    authority declared to the Zionist Emergency Council in a closed meeting:
    'under no circumstances should any of us believe or think we had won
    because of the devotion of the American Government to our cause. We had
    won because of the sheer pressure of political logistics that was
    applied by the Jewish leadership in the United States'. State Department
    advice critical of the controversial UNSCOP recommendation to give the overwhelmingly Arab town of Jaffa, and the Negev, to the Jews was
    overturned by an urgent and secret late meeting organized for Chaim
    Weizman with Truman, which immediately countermanded the recommendation.
    The United States initially refrained from pressuring smaller states to
    vote either way, but Robert A. Lovett reported that America's U.N.
    delegation's case suffered impediments from high pressure by Jewish
    groups, and that indications existed that bribes and threats were being
    used, even of American sanctions against Liberia and Nicaragua.[78] When
    the UNSCOP plan failed to achieve the necessary majority on 25 November,
    the lobby 'moved into high gear' and induced the President to overrule
    the State Department, and let wavering governments know that the U.S.
    strongly desired partition.[79]

    Proponents of the Plan reportedly put pressure on nations to vote yes to
    the Partition Plan. A telegram signed by 26 US Senators with influence
    on foreign aid bills was sent to wavering countries, seeking their
    support for the partition plan.[80] The US Senate was considering a
    large aid package at the time, including 60 million dollars to
    China.[81][82] Many nations reported pressure directed specifically at them:

    United States (Vote: For): President Truman later noted, "The facts
    were that not only were there pressure movements around the United
    Nations unlike anything that had been seen there before, but that the
    White House, too, was subjected to a constant barrage. I do not think I
    ever had as much pressure and propaganda aimed at the White House as I
    had in this instance. The persistence of a few of the extreme Zionist leaders—actuated by political motives and engaging in political threats—disturbed and annoyed me."[83]
    India (Vote: Against): Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru spoke
    with anger and contempt for the way the UN vote had been lined up. He
    said the Zionists had tried to bribe India with millions and at the same
    time his sister, Vijaya Lakshmi Pandit, the Indian ambassador to the UN,
    had received daily warnings that her life was in danger unless "she
    voted right".[84] Pandit occasionally hinted that something might change
    in favour of the Zionists. But another Indian delegate, Kavallam
    Pannikar, said that India would vote for the Arab side, because of their
    large Muslim minority, although they knew that the Jews had a case.[85]
    Liberia (Vote: For): Liberia's Ambassador to the United States
    complained that the US delegation threatened aid cuts to several
    countries.[86] Harvey S. Firestone, Jr., President of Firestone Natural
    Rubber Company, with major holdings in the country, also pressured the
    Liberian government[72][80]
    Philippines (Vote: For): In the days before the vote, Philippines representative General Carlos P. Romulo stated "We hold that the issue
    is primarily moral. The issue is whether the United Nations should
    accept responsibility for the enforcement of a policy which is clearly repugnant to the valid nationalist aspirations of the people of
    Palestine. The Philippines Government holds that the United Nations
    ought not to accept such responsibility." After a phone call from
    Washington, the representative was recalled and the Philippines' vote changed.[80]
    Haiti (Vote: For): The promise of a five million dollar loan may or
    may not have secured Haiti's vote for partition.[87]
    France (Vote: For): Shortly before the vote, France's delegate to the
    United Nations was visited by Bernard Baruch, a long-term Jewish
    supporter of the Democratic Party who, during the recent world war, had
    been an economic adviser to President Roosevelt, and had latterly been appointed by President Truman as United States ambassador to the newly
    created UN Atomic Energy Commission. He was, privately, a supporter of
    the Irgun and its front organization, the American League for a Free
    Palestine. Baruch implied that a French failure to support the
    resolution might block planned American aid to France, which was badly
    needed for reconstruction, French currency reserves being exhausted and
    its balance of payments heavily in deficit. Previously, to avoid
    antagonising its Arab colonies, France had not publicly supported the resolution. After considering the danger of American aid being withheld,
    France finally voted in favour of it. So, too, did France's neighbours, Belgium, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands.[70]
    Venezuela (Vote: For): Carlos Eduardo Stolk, Chairman of the
    Delegation of Venezuela, voted in favor of Resolution 181 .[88]
    Cuba (Vote: Against): The Cuban delegation stated they would vote
    against partition "in spite of pressure being brought to bear against
    us" because they could not be party to coercing the majority in
    Palestine.[89]
    Siam (Absent): The credentials of the Siamese delegations were
    cancelled after Siam voted against partition in committee on 25 November.[71][90]
    There is also some evidence that Sam Zemurray put pressure on several
    "banana republics" to change their votes.[91]

    Reports of pressure against the Plan
    According to the Israeli historian Benny Morris, Wasif Kamal, an Arab
    Higher Committee official, tried to bribe a delegate to the United
    Nations, perhaps a Russian.[92]

    Concerning the welfare of Jews in Arab countries, a number of direct
    threats were made:

    Jamal Husseini promised, "The blood will flow like rivers in the Middle East".[93]
    Iraq’s prime minister Nuri al-Said told British diplomats that if the
    United Nations solution was not "satisfactory", "severe measures should
    be taken against all Jews in Arab countries".[94]
    Concerning the welfare of Jews in Arab countries, a number of
    predictions were made:

    '"On 24 November the head of the Egyptian delegation to the General
    Assembly, Muhammad Hussein Heykal Pasha, said that "the lives of
    1,000,000 Jews in Moslem countries would be jeopardized by the
    establishment of a Jewish state."[95] At the 29th Meeting of the UN Ad
    Hoc Committee on Palestine on 24 November 1947, Dr Heykal Pasha, the
    Egyptian delegate, said, "if the U.N decide to amputate a part of
    Palestine in order to establish a Jewish state, no force on earth could
    prevent blood from flowing there… Moreover… no force on earth can

    [continued in next message]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Delma T. Ivey@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 17:05:25 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On 10/19/2023 4:57 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 15:47, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    On 10/19/2023 3:17 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 11:46, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    On 10/19/2023 10:34 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 10:06, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    A correct equation.

    That is false.

    It is not.

    The Jewish people have every right to their own
    homeland where they can enjoy self determination.

    They don't have any right as Jews to a homeland, and certainly not
    when it means denying an equal right to a homeland to Palestinians.

    Yes, the Palestinians do deserve a right to a homeland.

    In Palestine.

    They were offered one,

    No, they weren't.

    They certainly were offered a 'homeland'.
    read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

    A toothless UN "plan" is not an offer of a homeland.


    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a homeland? And why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine,
    when establishing it *necessarily* means dispossessing people already there?


    Both groups, Jews and Palestinians had populations there.

    You're still running in terror from the question. Answer it now: *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a homeland?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Governor Swill@21:1/5 to Delma T. Ivey on Fri Oct 20 21:09:29 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:47:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a homeland? And
    why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine, when establishing it >*necessarily* means dispossessing people already there?

    Because they've been living there since long before there was any such thing as a
    Palestinian, Arab or Persian. Jews have had their homeland in the region for 3500 years
    or more.

    Swill
    --
    Democrats make me feel ashamed of being American.
    Republicans make me feel ashamed of being human.


    https://www.forwardparty.com/


    Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

    Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

    Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

    Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief. <https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Governor Swill@21:1/5 to Max Boot on Fri Oct 20 21:13:56 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:49:47 -0700, Max Boot <max.boot@lathymes.com> wrote:

    On 10/19/2023 3:25 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 13:36, Max Boot wrote:
    On 10/19/2023 10:34 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 10:06, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    A correct equation.

    That is false.

    It's not.

    The Jewish people have every right to their own
    homeland where they can enjoy self determination.

    Why do Jews have a right to a homeland, with full autonomy, and Palestinians
    don't?

    Do Presbyterians have a right to a homeland? How about Zoroastrians?


    Again,

    You whiffed off. You didn't answer the questions.

    Try again: *why* do Jews have a right to a homeland, with full autonomy, and >Palestinians don't? Do Presbyterians have a "right" to a homeland? Why or why not?

    Stop being a gutless chickenshit, and answer the questions posed. Don't make up
    your own puffball questions; answer the questions posed.

    The question has been answered repeatedly. If you won't accept those answers, YOU are the
    one with a problem.

    Swill
    --
    Democrats make me feel ashamed of being American.
    Republicans make me feel ashamed of being human.


    https://www.forwardparty.com/


    Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

    Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

    Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

    Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief. <https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Max Boot@21:1/5 to Governor Swill on Fri Oct 20 18:45:21 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On 10/20/2023 6:13 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:49:47 -0700, Max Boot <max.boot@lathymes.com> wrote:

    On 10/19/2023 3:25 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 13:36, Max Boot wrote:
    On 10/19/2023 10:34 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 10:06, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    A correct equation.

    That is false.

    It's not.

    The Jewish people have every right to their own
    homeland where they can enjoy self determination.

    Why do Jews have a right to a homeland, with full autonomy, and Palestinians
    don't?

    Do Presbyterians have a right to a homeland? How about Zoroastrians?


    Again,

    You whiffed off. You didn't answer the questions.

    Try again: *why* do Jews have a right to a homeland, with full autonomy, and >> Palestinians don't? Do Presbyterians have a "right" to a homeland? Why or why not?

    Stop being a gutless chickenshit, and answer the questions posed. Don't make up
    your own puffball questions; answer the questions posed.

    The question has been answered repeatedly.

    It has never been answered. The question is *why* do Jews have a "right" to a homeland, and no one has answered it. Basically, people have said "just because," and it looks like you're doing that, too.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Delma T. Ivey@21:1/5 to Governor Swill on Fri Oct 20 18:43:38 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On 10/20/2023 6:09 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:47:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a homeland? And
    why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine, when establishing it >> *necessarily* means dispossessing people already there?

    Because they've been living there since long before there was any such thing as a
    Palestinian, Arab or Persian. Jews have had their homeland in the region for 3500 years
    or more.

    *False*. Some Jews were living there, but they had no homeland. There was no "Israel," but the region *was* called Palestine.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Baxter@21:1/5 to Governor Swill on Sat Oct 21 01:59:55 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote in news:0396jidut4l1sjo3p36l4pns871tkr4ocm@4ax.com:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:47:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a
    homeland? And why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine,
    when establishing it *necessarily* means dispossessing people already >>there?

    Because they've been living there since long before there was any such
    thing as a Palestinian, Arab or Persian. Jews have had their homeland
    in the region for 3500 years or more.

    Well, maybe. 3,000 year old claims are pretty suspect.

    They claim they were taken from there into captivity in Egypt - but there's
    no record of them in Egypt. The bible says they left Egypt and promptly slaughtered all the people living in the area now known as Isreal.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Governor Swill@21:1/5 to Delma T. Ivey on Sat Oct 21 03:07:58 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 18:43:38 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    On 10/20/2023 6:09 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:47:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a homeland? And
    why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine, when establishing it >>> *necessarily* means dispossessing people already there?

    Because they've been living there since long before there was any such thing as a
    Palestinian, Arab or Persian. Jews have had their homeland in the region for 3500 years
    or more.

    *False*. Some Jews were living there, but they had no homeland. There was no >"Israel," but the region *was* called Palestine.

    No. It wasn't. "Palestine" didn't exist before WW II. The term Palestine is derived
    from "Philistine", ancient traditional enemies of the Jews. Their land was today's modern
    Gaza which was also the name of their chief city. The term "Palestine" wasn't used until
    more than a thousand years after Ramses II who, you will remember, was the "Exodus"
    Pharoah.

    History is not that hard.

    Swill
    --
    Democrats make me feel ashamed of being American.
    Republicans make me feel ashamed of being human.


    https://www.forwardparty.com/


    Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

    Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

    Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

    Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief. <https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Governor Swill@21:1/5 to Baxter on Sat Oct 21 03:11:26 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 01:59:55 -0000 (UTC), Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote:

    Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote in >news:0396jidut4l1sjo3p36l4pns871tkr4ocm@4ax.com:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:47:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey"
    <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a >>>homeland? And why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine,
    when establishing it *necessarily* means dispossessing people already >>>there?

    Because they've been living there since long before there was any such
    thing as a Palestinian, Arab or Persian. Jews have had their homeland
    in the region for 3500 years or more.

    Well, maybe. 3,000 year old claims are pretty suspect.

    They claim they were taken from there into captivity in Egypt - but there's >no record of them in Egypt. The bible says they left Egypt and promptly >slaughtered all the people living in the area now known as Isreal.


    Actually, the claim was that they went to Egypt to start over as famine ravaged their own
    land. Remember Joseph and the coat of many colors? As vizir to Pharoah, he obtained
    permission for the Hebrews to settle in Egypt, in the land of Goshen.

    Note also that when they chose to leave, Pharoah was fine with that until God "hardened
    his heart" and made him change his mind. The Hebrews were never slaves in Egypt, they
    were immigrants.

    One must beware history told from a single point of view.

    Swill
    --
    Democrats make me feel ashamed of being American.
    Republicans make me feel ashamed of being human.


    https://www.forwardparty.com/


    Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

    Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

    Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

    Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief. <https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Governor Swill@21:1/5 to Max Boot on Sat Oct 21 03:12:10 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 18:45:21 -0700, Max Boot <max.boot@lathymes.com> wrote:

    On 10/20/2023 6:13 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:49:47 -0700, Max Boot <max.boot@lathymes.com> wrote: >>
    On 10/19/2023 3:25 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 13:36, Max Boot wrote:
    On 10/19/2023 10:34 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 10/19/23 10:06, Delma T. Ivey wrote:
    A correct equation.

    That is false.

    It's not.

    The Jewish people have every right to their own
    homeland where they can enjoy self determination.

    Why do Jews have a right to a homeland, with full autonomy, and Palestinians
    don't?

    Do Presbyterians have a right to a homeland? How about Zoroastrians? >>>>>

    Again,

    You whiffed off. You didn't answer the questions.

    Try again: *why* do Jews have a right to a homeland, with full autonomy, and
    Palestinians don't? Do Presbyterians have a "right" to a homeland? Why or why not?

    Stop being a gutless chickenshit, and answer the questions posed. Don't make up
    your own puffball questions; answer the questions posed.

    The question has been answered repeatedly.

    It has never been answered. The question is *why* do Jews have a "right" to a >homeland, and no one has answered it. Basically, people have said "just >because," and it looks like you're doing that, too.

    Piss off, Rudy.

    Swill
    --
    Democrats make me feel ashamed of being American.
    Republicans make me feel ashamed of being human.


    https://www.forwardparty.com/


    Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

    Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

    Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

    Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief. <https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Baxter@21:1/5 to Governor Swill on Sat Oct 21 15:18:01 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote in news:17u6ji1apmcb21qn3jbvs9krp9g7v9ccq6@4ax.com:

    On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 01:59:55 -0000 (UTC), Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote:

    Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote in >>news:0396jidut4l1sjo3p36l4pns871tkr4ocm@4ax.com:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:47:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey"
    <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a >>>>homeland? And why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine, >>>>when establishing it *necessarily* means dispossessing people
    already there?

    Because they've been living there since long before there was any
    such thing as a Palestinian, Arab or Persian. Jews have had their
    homeland in the region for 3500 years or more.

    Well, maybe. 3,000 year old claims are pretty suspect.

    They claim they were taken from there into captivity in Egypt - but
    there's no record of them in Egypt. The bible says they left Egypt
    and promptly slaughtered all the people living in the area now known
    as Isreal.


    Actually, the claim was that they went to Egypt to start over as
    famine ravaged their own land. Remember Joseph and the coat of many
    colors? As vizir to Pharoah, he obtained permission for the Hebrews
    to settle in Egypt, in the land of Goshen.

    Note also that when they chose to leave, Pharoah was fine with that
    until God "hardened his heart" and made him change his mind. The
    Hebrews were never slaves in Egypt, they were immigrants.

    One must beware history told from a single point of view.

    =============
    “The truth is that virtually every modern archeologist who has
    investigated the story of the Exodus, with very few exceptions, agrees
    that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way it happened,
    if it happened at all,” Wolpe told his congregants.

    ...

    After a century of excavations trying to prove the ancient accounts true, archeologists say there is no conclusive evidence that the Israelites
    were ever in Egypt, were ever enslaved, ever wandered in the Sinai
    wilderness for 40 years or ever conquered the land of Canaan under
    Joshua’s leadership. To the contrary, the prevailing view is that most of Joshua’s fabled military campaigns never occurred--archeologists have
    uncovered ash layers and other signs of destruction at the relevant time
    at only one of the many battlegrounds mentioned in the Bible.

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-apr-13-mn-50481-story.html

    ============
    Approaching the Exodus as an historical event, however, is another
    matter. Regardless of their views, biblical historians have a problem reconciling what the Bible says with the physical evidence that has been unearthed over the centuries.

    Among the problems: No direct archaeological evidence has been found to
    prove that the Children of Israel were in Egypt. Similarly, no direct
    evidence has been found to prove that they wandered in the wilderness for
    40 years. Even where the results of archaeological research do seem to
    fit the scenario of the Bible, other contemporaneous archaeological
    discoveries conflict with that scenario.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1987/04/12/searching-for- signs-of-the-exodus/46718fd4-3b2c-4f69-bd00-c5e59d57cbb7/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Governor Swill@21:1/5 to Delma T. Ivey on Sat Oct 21 17:29:42 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 17:05:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You're still running in terror from the question. Answer it now: *Why* do Jews >have a "right" to a homeland?

    I've told you, Rudy. This question has been answered.

    Message-ID: <bst6jilat8if1trel9p5maf9knhhuubsti@4ax.com>

    Swill
    --
    Democrats make me feel ashamed of being American.
    Republicans make me feel ashamed of being human.


    https://www.forwardparty.com/


    Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

    Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

    Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

    Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief. <https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Delma T. Ivey on Mon Oct 23 11:01:55 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote in message news:e1GYM.32889$%WT8.28417@fx12.iad...
    On 10/20/2023 6:09 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:47:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey"
    <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a
    homeland? And
    why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine, when establishing >>> it
    *necessarily* means dispossessing people already there?

    Because they've been living there since long before there was any such
    thing as a
    Palestinian, Arab or Persian. Jews have had their homeland in the region
    for 3500 years
    or more.

    *False*. Some Jews were living there, but they had no homeland. There was
    no "Israel," but the region *was* called Palestine.

    So your one complaint is that they changed the name?

    Well shit.. lots of places have done that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Delma T. Ivey@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 23 10:26:21 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On 10/23/2023 9:01 AM, scooter, drunken Virginia camper, lied:


    "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote in message news:e1GYM.32889$%WT8.28417@fx12.iad...
    On 10/20/2023 6:09 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:47:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey"
    <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a homeland? And
    why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine, when establishing it
    *necessarily* means dispossessing people already there?

    Because they've been living there since long before there was any such thing
    as a
    Palestinian, Arab or Persian.  Jews have had their homeland in the region for
    3500 years
    or more.

    *False*. Some Jews were living there, but they had no homeland. There was no >> "Israel," but the region *was* called Palestine.

    So your one complaint is that they changed the name?

    No, the complaint is that one group of people was given a homeland, and another,
    more deserving group was not, and now the first group is waging genocide on the other. That's the legitimate complaint, scooter.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Allahu Snackbar@21:1/5 to Scout on Mon Oct 23 12:25:44 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On 10/23/2023 12:11 PM, Scout wrote:


    "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote in message news:11yZM.29078$AvZ9.12540@fx35.iad...
    On 10/23/2023 9:01 AM, scooter, drunken Virginia camper, lied:


    "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote in message
    news:e1GYM.32889$%WT8.28417@fx12.iad...
    On 10/20/2023 6:09 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:47:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey"
    <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a
    homeland? And
    why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine, when establishing it
    *necessarily* means dispossessing people already there?

    Because they've been living there since long before there was any such >>>>> thing as a
    Palestinian, Arab or Persian.  Jews have had their homeland in the region
    for 3500 years
    or more.

    *False*. Some Jews were living there, but they had no homeland. There was no
    "Israel," but the region *was* called Palestine.

    So your one complaint is that they changed the name?

    No, the complaint is that one group of people was given a homeland, and
    another, more deserving group was not,

    So naturally you feel that the second group should attack and

    I believe the U.S. should not reflexively side with the state that is committing
    genocide against the stateless group.

    and now the first group is waging genocide on the other.

    And then you wonder why no one wanted the second group around them.

    Not so.

    That's the legitimate complaint, scooter.

    Na, sounds more like the self centered violence of the selfish

    No.


    <plonk>

    People who announce their kill-filing are narcissistic cowards.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Klaus Schadenfreude@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 23 13:06:49 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    [Default] Rudy "Cunt Flaps" Canoza typed:

    People who announce their kill-filing are narcissistic cowards.

    What's funnier than our resident dwarf calling someone *else* a
    narcissistic coward?

    LOL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Delma T. Ivey on Mon Oct 23 14:11:27 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote in message news:11yZM.29078$AvZ9.12540@fx35.iad...
    On 10/23/2023 9:01 AM, scooter, drunken Virginia camper, lied:


    "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote in message
    news:e1GYM.32889$%WT8.28417@fx12.iad...
    On 10/20/2023 6:09 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:47:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey"
    <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a
    homeland? And
    why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine, when
    establishing it
    *necessarily* means dispossessing people already there?

    Because they've been living there since long before there was any such >>>> thing as a
    Palestinian, Arab or Persian. Jews have had their homeland in the
    region for 3500 years
    or more.

    *False*. Some Jews were living there, but they had no homeland. There
    was no "Israel," but the region *was* called Palestine.

    So your one complaint is that they changed the name?

    No, the complaint is that one group of people was given a homeland, and another, more deserving group was not,

    So naturally you feel that the second group should attack and attempt to
    steal the land from the 1st group rather than taking up their issues with
    those would didn’t "give them a homeland". Further they do this despite the fact that the 1st group is perfectly willing to allow them to peacefully coexist among them. Nope, they want the whole thing and nothing less.

    I will just note that is maybe that's why they weren't given a "homeland"? Dangerous, violent, vindictive, and above all selfish.

    and now the first group is waging genocide on the other.

    And then you wonder why no one wanted the second group around them. Further
    by your own admission this means that ANYTHING the first group does to
    defend themselves from the 2nd group is totally and utterly justified. Since
    by your own admission it is a fight to the death. Doesn't leave a lot of
    room for compromise or sharing does it?

    That's the legitimate complaint, scooter.

    Na, sounds more like the self centered violence of the selfish, spoiled brat who demands to have whatever anyone else has while showing they don't
    deserve it, and are willing to destroy it just to insure someone else can't have it.

    Kind of reminds me of you,... except they are apparently a lot smarter than
    you ever will be.

    <plonk>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Baxter@21:1/5 to Allahu Snackbar on Mon Oct 23 22:07:39 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    Allahu Snackbar <camel-jockey@97virgins.com> wrote in news:YMzZM.130138$PlV6.121368@fx11.ams1:


    I believe the U.S. should not reflexively side with the state that is committing genocide against the stateless group.

    It's what we (the US) do

    https://i.imgur.com/tdSU65C.png

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pothead@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 23 22:25:22 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On 2023-10-23, Klaus Schadenfreude <klaus.schadenfreude.Zwergentöter> wrote:
    [Default] Rudy "Cunt Flaps" Canoza typed:

    People who announce their kill-filing are narcissistic cowards.

    What's funnier than our resident dwarf calling someone *else* a
    narcissistic coward?

    LOL

    It seems that the vertically challenged one is backed into a corner, mostly because of his own
    idiocy.

    --
    pothead
    Tommy Chong For President 2024.
    Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
    Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Governor Swill@21:1/5 to Baxter on Tue Oct 24 02:38:13 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 22:07:39 -0000 (UTC), Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote:

    Allahu Snackbar <camel-jockey@97virgins.com> wrote in >news:YMzZM.130138$PlV6.121368@fx11.ams1:


    I believe the U.S. should not reflexively side with the state that is
    committing genocide against the stateless group.

    It's what we (the US) do

    https://i.imgur.com/tdSU65C.png

    Then go live in some more noble and moral place. Like Saudi Arabia or Zimbabwe.

    Swill
    --
    Democrats make me feel ashamed of being American.
    Republicans make me feel ashamed of being human.


    https://www.forwardparty.com/


    Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

    Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

    Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

    Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief. <https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Delma T. Ivey on Tue Oct 24 07:34:18 2023
    XPost: or.politics, ca.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
    XPost: talk.politics.guns

    "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote in message news:11yZM.29078$AvZ9.12540@fx35.iad...
    On 10/23/2023 9:01 AM, scooter, drunken Virginia camper, lied:


    "Delma T. Ivey" <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote in message
    news:e1GYM.32889$%WT8.28417@fx12.iad...
    On 10/20/2023 6:09 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:47:25 -0700, "Delma T. Ivey"
    <somewhere@thegreatbeyond.con> wrote:

    You didn't answer the question. *Why* do Jews have a "right" to a
    homeland? And
    why do they have a "right" to a homeland in Palestine, when
    establishing it
    *necessarily* means dispossessing people already there?

    Because they've been living there since long before there was any such >>>> thing as a
    Palestinian, Arab or Persian. Jews have had their homeland in the
    region for 3500 years
    or more.

    *False*. Some Jews were living there, but they had no homeland. There
    was no "Israel," but the region *was* called Palestine.

    So your one complaint is that they changed the name?

    No, the complaint is that one group of people was given a homeland, and another, more deserving group was not, and now the first group is waging genocide on the other. That's the legitimate complaint, scooter.

    IOW, like an ill mannered brat they want to steal what other was given, and failing that work to destroy it so that no one can use it.

    That's Rudy's notion of the "legitimate complaint" and he does even address that this sort of attitude, anger, and shear violence might be why NO ONE
    wants to give them a homeland because NO ONE wants to deal with such
    neighbors.

    But then Rudy has well established that he has absolutely no clue of what a legitimate complaint is, much less how you make on.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)