• Virtualize Windows under Linux w/o CD

    From Dave@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 1 14:59:30 2022
    I'm going to upgrade the computer soon. I need tor be able to
    virtualize Windows, but new computers usually don't have a Windows CD
    (without a lot of extra cost anyway). My understanding is that Win10
    will let me create a .vdd file from within. I have also seen where I
    can download an .iso file from Microsoft. Then set up Virtual Box.

    My questions are:
    1. What is best - CD, .VDD file, or .iso and why? Are there any costs
    and limitations to the iso file that may be important?

    2. Does it make any difference if Win10 is Home or Pro edition?

    3. Anything else I should ask?

    Thanks!
    Dave

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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 1 21:34:48 2022
    Am Samstag, 01. Januar 2022, um 14:59:30 Uhr schrieb Dave:

    1. What is best - CD, .VDD file, or .iso and why? Are there any
    costs and limitations to the iso file that may be important?

    .iso from MS just works fine for booting in VirtualBox or VMware.
    Just use them together with the virtual CD drive in VirtualBox.

    2. Does it make any difference if Win10 is Home or Pro edition?

    It depends on the license you have. To use Win 10 you need a license.
    If you enter your key in the installation process it selects the proper
    version (Home/Pro) for you.

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  • From David Catterall@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Sat Jan 1 22:59:19 2022
    On 01/01/2022 20:34, Marco Moock wrote:
    It depends on the license you have. To use Win 10 you need a license.
    If you enter your key in the installation process it selects the proper version (Home/Pro) for you.

    Has something changed during the last year?

    Windows 10 .iso used to be downloadable for no charge from the Microsoft website. This could be done even using a Linux system.

    After a while you cannot customize it, but I downloaded it more than once.

    Cheers,
    David in County Longford

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Dave on Sat Jan 1 22:34:31 2022
    On 1/1/2022 2:59 PM, Dave wrote:
    I'm going to upgrade the computer soon.  I need tor be able to virtualize Windows, but new computers usually don't have a Windows CD (without a lot of extra cost anyway).  My understanding is that Win10 will let me create a .vdd file from within.  I
    have also seen where I can download an .iso file from Microsoft.  Then set up Virtual Box.

    My questions are:
    1.  What is best - CD, .VDD file, or .iso and why?  Are there any costs and limitations to the iso file that may be important?

    2.  Does it make any difference if Win10 is Home or Pro edition?

    3.  Anything else I should ask?

    Thanks!
    Dave

    Windows has a license key and the notion of activation.

    This is still policed.

    In Windows 10, moving Windows would result in a notification in the
    lower right corner, that Windows needs to be activated. The Personalize
    portion of Settings, may then have messages in it, indicating you
    cannot change things. You can however, change the background from the
    swirly blue stuff to some other colour.

    On Windows 7 Enterprise, a lack of activation causes the OS to run
    for half an hour, before it unceremoniously shuts down. It does not
    even do a "clean" shutdown. The file system is shut down dirty. It will
    make various "noises" indicating it is going to do something rotten soon,
    so you can get a half hour out of it, then shut it down before it shuts down.

    On Windows XP, if you moved a disk from one machine to another, the
    Intel storage driver worked on both the machines, so the disk would
    load, but in some cases activation would crash/hang the system before
    you could do anything. In other cases, you would be given "72 hours"
    to "resolve the activation issue".

    *******

    The nature of the problem has not gone away. The symptoms are
    a bit different in each case.

    When you virtualize Windows, the original environment could
    see your Soundblaster X-Fi card on the bus. When you install
    the VHD in VirtualBox and boot it, that sound card is no longer
    on the bus. *All* the emulated hardware is different. The OS
    goes "Hey! We're not in Kansas any more". In particular, the
    NIC MAC address is changed, and that has a high weight in
    determining activation status.

    Sure, you can virtualize Windows 10, run it in VirtualBox,
    bring all your software with you. Any expensive licenced software,
    will do its own activation analysis, determine this is not Kansas
    and deactivate the licensing.

    Dongle based software, where a dongle authenticates expensive
    software, that actually works better in cases like this, as you
    can do passthru USB in Virtualbox.

    This program, is a demonstration of virtualization. It's only
    disadvantage is that sometimes the "dimensions" of the things
    you're putting in a virtual machine, are a bit too big. This program
    freezes the state of C: using VSS Shadow Copy, then creates the VHD
    for each partition selected.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/disk2vhd

    You generally don't want output in VHDX, as that is less portable.
    VHD is good for 2TB worth of stuff, and realistically speaking,
    you don't want to be toting around anything even remotely
    that big. For me, 20GB is the size of a typical VM.

    Right this very minute, using the resources you have in hand,
    you can virtualize the C: on your current machine and run it
    in VirtualBox right on your current machine, and see two screens
    that look the same on your desktop.

    Windows 7 Backup in Windows 10, stores partitions in VHDX format.

    Windows 7 Backup in Windows 7, stores partitions in VHD format.

    Macrium Reflect backup software, maybe Version 6 or so, has
    "img2vhd.exe" in it, and can convert an MRIMG into a VHD.
    The latest Macrium, Macrium 8, doesn't have img2vhd.exe, but
    you might be able to take a MRIMG anyway and an older copy
    of img2vhd and still convert it. Macrium Version 6 cannot back
    up Windows 10 any more, unless you're running 6.3.1865 or so,
    with support for ruined NTFS $BITMAP and so on.

    There are a few utilities of that nature around.

    Windows also has the ability to boot a VHD file, from the
    boot menu, but when I tested that, it got into some sort of
    loop. But that's to show you some of the more kooky options.

    Summary: Loads of fun await. You can start right now, this
    very instant.

    VirtualBox in Linux, can read the "disk" at 600MB/sec
    but with a bit of performance jitter. VirtualBox on
    Windows can read the "disk" at 100MB/sec. Those are
    examples showing there are differences caused by host
    and whether paravirtualization drivers are available.

    In Linux, I use some RAM to make a TMPFS /tmp and load
    the VHD into that. But that's for one-time VirtualBox ops.
    You'd probably want a more permanent configuration of some
    sort. For the most part, using special hosting for the
    VHD file like that (keeping it on a NVMe), is a
    waste of time, but it does not stop me from trying.

    Windows 11 virtualization ? Mostly, forget it. I've done it,
    but it's just not worth it.

    Paul

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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 2 11:02:03 2022
    Am Samstag, 01. Januar 2022, um 22:59:19 Uhr schrieb David Catterall:

    Windows 10 .iso used to be downloadable for no charge from the
    Microsoft website. This could be done even using a Linux system.

    After a while you cannot customize it, but I downloaded it more than
    once.

    As I know this image includes all variants like Home, Pro, Pro N, etc.,
    so there is no need to "customize" it.
    I also downloaded them many times with Linux.

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  • From Abandoned_Trolley@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Sun Jan 2 11:02:56 2022
    On 02/01/2022 10:02, Marco Moock wrote:
    Am Samstag, 01. Januar 2022, um 22:59:19 Uhr schrieb David Catterall:

    Windows 10 .iso used to be downloadable for no charge from the
    Microsoft website. This could be done even using a Linux system.

    After a while you cannot customize it, but I downloaded it more than
    once.

    As I know this image includes all variants like Home, Pro, Pro N, etc.,
    so there is no need to "customize" it.
    I also downloaded them many times with Linux.



    I have been running a downloaded copy of Win 10 Pro for over a year on
    this machine, with the "Activate Windows" message glowing lika a beacon
    in the corner of the screen (well, one of the screens)

    Seems to run perfectly OK for me and various bits of licensed software, including Cubase appear to run perfectly OK as well.



    --
    random signature text inserted here

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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 2 14:31:18 2022
    Am Sonntag, 02. Januar 2022, um 11:02:56 Uhr schrieb Abandoned_Trolley:

    I have been running a downloaded copy of Win 10 Pro for over a year
    on this machine, with the "Activate Windows" message glowing lika a
    beacon in the corner of the screen (well, one of the screens)

    Doesn't it shut down every hour?
    I tried out Win 10 Enterprise in 2015 without activation, after the 90
    trial days it shut down every hour. Did MS change that behavior?

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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 2 15:02:00 2022
    Am Sonntag, 02. Januar 2022, um 13:57:16 Uhr schrieb Abandoned_Trolley:

    It's a desktop machine, so it’s possible that there's a different set
    of default power management settings from any system built on a
    laptop ?

    No, it wasn't the power management - it was the shutdown because
    Windows wasn't activated. Vista and 7 shut off with a blue screen, Win
    10 shuts down properly.

    Also, as I said before, this is Win 10 Pro - the Enterprise version
    may have a different set of rules (I wasn't aware that it was
    available as a free download)

    The evaluation versions are Windows 10 Enterprise and as I know it is
    possible to download them for free for evaluation purposes from
    TechNet. IIRC you need an MS account to do that.

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  • From Abandoned_Trolley@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 2 13:57:16 2022
    Doesn't it shut down every hour?
    I tried out Win 10 Enterprise in 2015 without activation, after the 90
    trial days it shut down every hour. Did MS change that behavior?



    I have no idea - but this machine has been running since my last post in
    here, and is often left running overnight.

    It's a desktop machine, so it’s possible that there's a different set of default power management settings from any system built on a laptop ?

    Also, as I said before, this is Win 10 Pro - the Enterprise version may
    have a different set of rules (I wasn't aware that it was available as a
    free download)

    You might get some more sensible answers by posting in a Windows
    orientated NG rather than in here ?




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  • From Abandoned_Trolley@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Sun Jan 2 14:21:13 2022
    On 02/01/2022 14:02, Marco Moock wrote:
    Am Sonntag, 02. Januar 2022, um 13:57:16 Uhr schrieb Abandoned_Trolley:

    It's a desktop machine, so it’s possible that there's a different set
    of default power management settings from any system built on a
    laptop ?

    No, it wasn't the power management - it was the shutdown because
    Windows wasn't activated. Vista and 7 shut off with a blue screen, Win
    10 shuts down properly.

    Also, as I said before, this is Win 10 Pro - the Enterprise version
    may have a different set of rules (I wasn't aware that it was
    available as a free download)

    The evaluation versions are Windows 10 Enterprise and as I know it is possible to download them for free for evaluation purposes from
    TechNet. IIRC you need an MS account to do that.




    so what ?

    one of the questions posed by the OP was "Does it make any difference if
    Win10 is Home or Pro edition?


    as I said before - "You might get some more sensible answers by posting
    in a Windows orientated NG rather than in here ? "






    --
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  • From David Catterall@21:1/5 to Paul on Sun Jan 2 15:59:42 2022
    On 02/01/2022 03:34, Paul wrote:

    Sure, you can virtualize Windows 10, run it in VirtualBox,
    bring all your software with you. Any expensive licensed software,
    will do its own activation analysis, determine this is not Kansas
    and deactivate the licensing.

    This is what I've been doing for over a year now.

    • Downloaded the Windows 10 .iso

    • Created a New Machine in VirtualBox with a variable 50GB hard drive, formatted NTFS

    • Add the iso as an optical drive

    • Install Windows.

    Most times I shut the VM down using the `Save State' option, before
    shutting down the Host machine.

    HTH,
    David in Co Longford

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  • From Mike Easter@21:1/5 to Dave on Sun Jan 2 08:29:36 2022
    Dave wrote:
    I'm going to upgrade the computer soon.  I need tor be able to
    virtualize Windows,

    I don't completely understand your current situation and goals.

    Is 'the computer' a Win10 computer; ie an OEM computer w/ W10 installed
    from the mfr?

    Is your idea that you want to be able to run both Win (10?) and linux?
    Are you currently running linux? How/ on what? Is there only one computer?

    What are the resources of 'the computer' in terms of ram and bios/efi year?

    Specifically what are the various needs for the W10 function?

    --
    Mike Easter

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 2 12:42:22 2022
    On 1/2/2022 9:21 AM, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
    On 02/01/2022 14:02, Marco Moock wrote:
    Am Sonntag, 02. Januar 2022, um 13:57:16 Uhr schrieb Abandoned_Trolley:

    It's a desktop machine, so it’s possible that there's a different set
    of default power management settings from any system built on a
    laptop ?

    No, it wasn't the power management - it was the shutdown because
    Windows wasn't activated. Vista and 7 shut off with a blue screen, Win
    10 shuts down properly.

    Also, as I said before, this is Win 10 Pro - the Enterprise version
    may have a different set of rules (I wasn't aware that it was
    available as a free download)

    The evaluation versions are Windows 10 Enterprise and as I know it is
    possible to download them for free for evaluation purposes from
    TechNet. IIRC you need an MS account to do that.


    so what ?

    one of the questions posed by the OP was "Does it make any difference if Win10 is Home or Pro edition?

    as I said before  - "You might get some more sensible answers by posting in a Windows orientated NG rather than in here ?

    Win10 Pro has GPEDIT support, which allows making more
    adjustments than you can make on Win10 Home. You can bodge
    GPEDTI into Home, but I don't think that works as smooth
    as it might. For example, you can change the bandwidth settings
    of the Updates downloader and change its behavior a tiny bit.

    For VMs, I usually use Pro, even if there is zero intent to
    customize. There's not much point to the Home version, except
    if someone asks you to test Home for them. Usually Home will
    have some obnoxious policy that makes it less attractive.

    The Enterprise version is fine too, with the exception of
    the shutdown behavior after the grace period. The media for that
    is not normally available, except as a trial. The free download
    DVDs don't have Enterprise version on them.

    And the neat thing about the Enterprise shutdown, is it is a
    "dirty file system" shutdown. The OS drops without a ceremony.
    Which I thought was pretty funny. But it makes a few noises
    and colour changes, so you know the lights are going out in
    60 seconds or less. It doesn't actually print on the screen
    "we're shutting down now" or anything like that, but with experience
    you will see the changes and act accordingly. I think even if it
    was installing updates in the VM, it would still drop like a rock :-)
    It looks like they were after an unhackable feature there.

    *******

    If you do pay for a license to activate your VM, be aware that
    if there are any activation issues, the phone support will give
    you the finger. They will not resolve any licensing issues for
    you, if you're using a VM. And that means, you *must* make
    sufficient backups to recover from stupid stuff. Only a Retail
    version of the OS would be bulletproof enough for a VM, as
    you can "move" the OS on those. For example, be careful with
    your date settings while operating activated VMs. (Bad date settings
    like the year 1970, happen when the CMOS battery dies.) An OEM license
    would be a less attractive option, if you're silly enough to pay
    for it. Only one person in the Win10 group tried that, paid for
    a license for a VM, and as far as I know, that license is now "toast"
    and can no longer be used, and the support would not help.

    Paul

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  • From Ken Hart@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Sun Jan 2 13:11:33 2022
    On 1/2/22 8:31 AM, Marco Moock wrote:
    Am Sonntag, 02. Januar 2022, um 11:02:56 Uhr schrieb Abandoned_Trolley:

    I have been running a downloaded copy of Win 10 Pro for over a year
    on this machine, with the "Activate Windows" message glowing lika a
    beacon in the corner of the screen (well, one of the screens)

    Doesn't it shut down every hour?
    I tried out Win 10 Enterprise in 2015 without activation, after the 90
    trial days it shut down every hour. Did MS change that behavior?


    No, that's just normal Windows behavior.
    (Sorry, it had to be said!)

    --
    Ken Hart
    kwhart1@centurylink.net

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Sun Jan 2 12:23:19 2022
    On 1/2/2022 8:31 AM, Marco Moock wrote:
    Am Sonntag, 02. Januar 2022, um 11:02:56 Uhr schrieb Abandoned_Trolley:

    I have been running a downloaded copy of Win 10 Pro for over a year
    on this machine, with the "Activate Windows" message glowing lika a
    beacon in the corner of the screen (well, one of the screens)

    Doesn't it shut down every hour?
    I tried out Win 10 Enterprise in 2015 without activation, after the 90
    trial days it shut down every hour. Did MS change that behavior?


    Not Win10 Pro. The policing on Home/Pro versus Enterprise is different.

    Enterprise is carefully curated, "make-me-money" software for
    Microsoft, so I would expect the policy to be tighter on it.

    The Win 7 Enterprise VM I downloaded from Microsoft, reboots
    after running for half an hour. It's not surprising to see
    a shutdown behavior on Win 10 Enterprise. And the behavior starts
    after the grace period expires.

    The VMs can also be set up to time bomb, by using a signing
    certificate with a "short date". The modern.ie Microsoft site
    that used to offer VMs for download, has a notation next to the
    Win10 VMs indicating that they may expire. But it doesn't
    offer details as to what that means on the site. The modern.ie site
    was set up as a test mechanism for various versions of Internet Explorer browser, and that browser has pretty well completely gone out of
    support now. On modern setups, an Internet Explorer invocation
    causes "MSEdge in Internet Explorer mode" to intercept the call.
    But MSEdge does not emulated ActiveX, so not everything works.

    Paul

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  • From Branimir Maksimovic@21:1/5 to David Catterall on Mon Jan 3 05:09:24 2022
    On 2022-01-01, David Catterall <djcatt@eircom.net> wrote:
    On 01/01/2022 20:34, Marco Moock wrote:
    It depends on the license you have. To use Win 10 you need a license.
    If you enter your key in the installation process it selects the proper
    version (Home/Pro) for you.

    Has something changed during the last year?

    Windows 10 .iso used to be downloadable for no charge from the Microsoft website. This could be done even using a Linux system.

    After a while you cannot customize it, but I downloaded it more than once.

    Cheers,
    David in County Longford
    /You just need activation key.

    --

    7-77-777
    Evil Sinner!
    with software, you repeat same experiment, expecting different results...

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Branimir Maksimovic on Mon Jan 3 03:16:09 2022
    On 1/3/2022 12:09 AM, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
    On 2022-01-01, David Catterall <djcatt@eircom.net> wrote:
    On 01/01/2022 20:34, Marco Moock wrote:
    It depends on the license you have. To use Win 10 you need a license.
    If you enter your key in the installation process it selects the proper
    version (Home/Pro) for you.

    Has something changed during the last year?

    Windows 10 .iso used to be downloadable for no charge from the Microsoft
    website. This could be done even using a Linux system.

    After a while you cannot customize it, but I downloaded it more than once. >>
    Cheers,
    David in County Longford

    /You just need activation key.

    https://gameofthrones-croatia.com/what-happens-if-i-dont-activate-windows-10/

    "Limitations Of Unregistered Version :

    So, what really happens if you do not activate your Win 10? Indeed,
    nothing awful happens. Virtually no system functionality will be wrecked.
    The only thing that’ll not be accessible in such a case is the
    personalization. It denotes that you’ll not be capable of changing
    desktop backgrounds, color themes, and icons, etc. Agree, it’s not
    critical; the win 10 professional key 2017, for the rest, you’ll have
    a completely working OS. It’ll normally work even the PowerShell Terminal.

    And what else do you require? If there’s no difference, why should the
    users pay a decent amount of unknown? Numerous have already independently
    come to the same end and safely utilize the OS without activation."

    You can see the scary picture in the article. Oh, my.

    https://gameofthrones-croatia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Remove-Activate-Windows-10-Watermarkk.png

    Paul

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