• Bluetooth dongle question

    From Mountain Magpies@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 16 08:11:20 2021
    Old box which I converted to Linux (Ubuntu) - dumped Windoze -never had
    a Bluetooth card inside, so I purchased a Linux compatible Bluetooth
    dongle, which works fine, but doesn't come alive until the OS is fully
    booted.

    Any work around for this?

    Maybe something which I can run once from the terminal?

    Need it for a Bluetooth keyboard to operate.

    Thanks in advance, as usual.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Mountain Magpies on Thu Dec 16 09:00:09 2021
    On 12/16/2021 3:11 AM, Mountain Magpies wrote:
    Old box which I converted to Linux (Ubuntu) - dumped Windoze -never had
    a Bluetooth card inside, so I purchased a Linux compatible Bluetooth
    dongle, which works fine, but doesn't come alive until the OS is fully booted.

    Any work around for this?

    Maybe something which I can run once from the terminal?

    Need it for a Bluetooth keyboard to operate.

    Thanks in advance, as usual.


    The BIOS has drivers.

    The motherboard maker, if they put a "foreign" chip, one which
    is not covered by the "bring-up code" for the chipset, it's possible
    to add a code module. This allows a certain level of functionality
    at BIOS level. In the past, there were limitations on what functions
    were included. The functionality has to fit into the barren framework
    of a BIOS.

    OK, so a person like yourself adds "Pure Bluetooth" to the machine,
    which is Bluetooth (sorta Wifi) over USB. The BIOS would need a Bluetooth module, plus it would need a meaningful "profile" to run on top of it.
    Since the BIOS likes "HDD emulation code, read interface" as INT 0x13,
    that would be a natural kind of profile to aim for.

    If your machine was a laptop, some sort of code module might be there,
    like maybe even something to netboot over BT. But considering what
    a rats nest BT is, and the odds of anything working, I could understand
    if the code did nothing more than make a couple ACPI entries (PNP entries). Leaving the function of the thing, to only occur at OS level.

    *******

    What does work ?

    A dongle that emulates a HID (keyboard/mouse) device and "hides" the
    fact BT is involved. Such a device would be similar to the Logitech Unifying Receiver.
    It appears as a HID over USB and BT is never mentioned. The machine
    doesn't even know the dongle is a radio or could use an Airport Mode.

    There are slight variations in the protocol at 2.4GHz, so some things
    are true Bluetooth, and some are very close to Bluetooth. But by hiding
    the RF end and the little processor inside running it, the machine need
    never know.

    The machine does have HID drivers. It's designed to support PS/2 HID
    and USB HID. The Unifying Receiver would work with the BIOS USB HID
    support. And generally on the chipset ports. If you see USB2 and
    USB3 ports, the USB2 are more likely to be properly integrated.

    *******

    You can buy a Logitech keyboard for example, one that comes with a
    Unifying Receiver, plug it in, and it works at BIOS level and it
    works at OS level (any OS).

    If you buy the so-called "portable" keyboards, those nice little
    gadgets that fold up and go into a pocket, those are intended
    for smartphones and tablets. And the BT integration there might
    be a bit better. As soon as you whip out the BT keyboard with
    a tablet, it's anxious to pair and get the show on the road. If
    the tablet boots, it will have options for onscreen keyboard
    and touch, to take the place of the keyboard during any time
    the machine is not ready for the protocol.

    But if you take one of those nice fold-up keyboards and
    bring it near a desktop, there will be periods of unhappiness,
    such as not being able to interact with a UEFI BIOS perhaps.

    That means there is a delineation:

    1) Devices similar to the Logitech, where the plugin nanoreceiver
    declares itself as HID and not BT.

    2) Devices like the nice foldup BT keyboards which are plain BT,
    where the smartphone or tablet "picks up the slack" via an
    onscreen keyboard. Most people who pack those, expect the
    foldup keyboard to only be fully functional after the machine
    is booted. They are a boon, in place of poking a portable
    device with a stylus for input.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mountain Magpies@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 17 00:42:52 2021
    On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 09:00:09 -0500, Paul posted:-

    On 12/16/2021 3:11 AM, Mountain Magpies wrote:
    Old box which I converted to Linux (Ubuntu) - dumped Windoze -never
    had a Bluetooth card inside, so I purchased a Linux compatible
    Bluetooth dongle, which works fine, but doesn't come alive until
    the OS is fully booted.

    Any work around for this?

    Maybe something which I can run once from the terminal?

    Need it for a Bluetooth keyboard to operate.

    Thanks in advance, as usual.


    The BIOS has drivers.

    The motherboard maker, if they put a "foreign" chip, one which
    is not covered by the "bring-up code" for the chipset, it's possible
    to add a code module. This allows a certain level of functionality
    at BIOS level. In the past, there were limitations on what functions
    were included. The functionality has to fit into the barren framework
    of a BIOS.

    OK, so a person like yourself adds "Pure Bluetooth" to the machine,
    which is Bluetooth (sorta Wifi) over USB. The BIOS would need a
    Bluetooth module, plus it would need a meaningful "profile" to run on
    top of it. Since the BIOS likes "HDD emulation code, read interface"
    as INT 0x13, that would be a natural kind of profile to aim for.

    If your machine was a laptop, some sort of code module might be there,
    like maybe even something to netboot over BT. But considering what
    a rats nest BT is, and the odds of anything working, I could
    understand if the code did nothing more than make a couple ACPI
    entries (PNP entries). Leaving the function of the thing, to only
    occur at OS level.

    *******

    What does work ?

    A dongle that emulates a HID (keyboard/mouse) device and "hides" the
    fact BT is involved. Such a device would be similar to the Logitech
    Unifying Receiver. It appears as a HID over USB and BT is never
    mentioned. The machine doesn't even know the dongle is a radio or
    could use an Airport Mode.

    There are slight variations in the protocol at 2.4GHz, so some things
    are true Bluetooth, and some are very close to Bluetooth. But by
    hiding the RF end and the little processor inside running it, the
    machine need never know.

    The machine does have HID drivers. It's designed to support PS/2 HID
    and USB HID. The Unifying Receiver would work with the BIOS USB HID
    support. And generally on the chipset ports. If you see USB2 and
    USB3 ports, the USB2 are more likely to be properly integrated.

    *******

    You can buy a Logitech keyboard for example, one that comes with a
    Unifying Receiver, plug it in, and it works at BIOS level and it
    works at OS level (any OS).

    If you buy the so-called "portable" keyboards, those nice little
    gadgets that fold up and go into a pocket, those are intended
    for smartphones and tablets. And the BT integration there might
    be a bit better. As soon as you whip out the BT keyboard with
    a tablet, it's anxious to pair and get the show on the road. If
    the tablet boots, it will have options for onscreen keyboard
    and touch, to take the place of the keyboard during any time
    the machine is not ready for the protocol.

    But if you take one of those nice fold-up keyboards and
    bring it near a desktop, there will be periods of unhappiness,
    such as not being able to interact with a UEFI BIOS perhaps.

    That means there is a delineation:

    1) Devices similar to the Logitech, where the plugin nanoreceiver
    declares itself as HID and not BT.

    2) Devices like the nice foldup BT keyboards which are plain BT,
    where the smartphone or tablet "picks up the slack" via an
    onscreen keyboard. Most people who pack those, expect the
    foldup keyboard to only be fully functional after the machine
    is booted. They are a boon, in place of poking a portable
    device with a stylus for input.

    Paul


    Thanks Paul for the detailed & clear response.

    Take care!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From moby dick@21:1/5 to Mountain Magpies on Tue Dec 21 01:18:11 2021
    Linux first uploads firmware to the Bluetooth dongle which can't
    be done unless booted. There might be exceptions. Wifi network
    cards are also well known to have firmware uploaded every
    boot.

    That only explains why it doesn't work.


    --
    The hungry rabbit jumps

    Mountain Magpies <invalid@nospam.com> Wrote in message:r
    Old box which I converted to Linux (Ubuntu) - dumped Windoze -never hada Bluetooth card inside, so

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)