• Can't clone drive

    From philo@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 21 09:30:44 2021
    All I wanted to do was use dd to clone a Mint Linux installation on an
    ATA drive over to a SATA.


    I booted from a Ubuntu 20.04 live DVD and when I used dd
    I got "permission" denied /dev/sda (source)

    I've used dd before to clone Windows and Mac drives and it worked, so I
    don't know what is going on here.


    I tried Clonezilla and it said it had an unrepairable problem with the
    boot partition.


    I don't get it, the machine boots just fine.


    BTW: Why the heck does Linux use FAT32 as the boot partition, that seems
    like asking for trouble.


    Just for fun, I did run CHKDSK (without the /f) on that partition from
    a Windows machine and no problems were found.




    With all the time I've wasted, I could have done a fresh install already
    but am curious as to what is going on.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to philo on Thu Oct 21 10:38:30 2021
    On 10/21/2021 10:30 AM, philo wrote:
    All I wanted to do was use dd to clone a Mint Linux installation on an ATA drive over to a SATA.


    I booted from a Ubuntu 20.04 live DVD and when I used dd
    I got "permission" denied /dev/sda     (source)

    I've used dd before to clone Windows and Mac drives and it worked, so I don't know what is going on here.


    I tried Clonezilla and it said it had an unrepairable problem with the boot partition.


    I don't get it, the machine boots just fine.


    BTW: Why the heck does Linux use FAT32 as the boot partition, that seems like asking for trouble.


    Just for fun, I did run CHKDSK  (without the /f) on that partition from a Windows machine and no problems were found.




    With all the time I've wasted, I could have done a fresh install already but am curious as to what is going on.


    # Show us an example of your invocation please :-)

    sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc

    Without the sudo, it will end badly.

    *******

    # There is also a dd.exe for Windows, in case you
    # want to prove it really does work as a hard drive.

    Instructions:

    http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

    Download:

    http://www.chrysocome.net/downloads/dd-0.6beta3.zip

    In an Administrator Command Prompt:

    cd /d C:\where\I\unpacked\my\dd\prog

    dd --list # collect win namespace info

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From philo@21:1/5 to Paul on Thu Oct 21 09:50:14 2021
    On 10/21/21 9:38 AM, Paul wrote:
    On 10/21/2021 10:30 AM, philo wrote:
    All I wanted to do was use dd to clone a Mint Linux installation on an
    ATA drive over to a SATA.


    I booted from a Ubuntu 20.04 live DVD and when I used dd
    I got "permission" denied /dev/sda     (source)

    I've used dd before to clone Windows and Mac drives and it worked, so
    I don't know what is going on here.


    I tried Clonezilla and it said it had an unrepairable problem with the
    boot partition.


    I don't get it, the machine boots just fine.


    BTW: Why the heck does Linux use FAT32 as the boot partition, that
    seems like asking for trouble.


    Just for fun, I did run CHKDSK  (without the /f) on that partition
    from a Windows machine and no problems were found.




    With all the time I've wasted, I could have done a fresh install
    already but am curious as to what is going on.


    # Show us an example of your invocation please :-)

      sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc

    Without the sudo, it will end badly.



    Is sudo necessary from a live DVD?

    I can open gparted, for example directly


    I don't ever recall using sudo from a live DVD

    *******

    # There is also a dd.exe for Windows, in case you
    # want to prove it really does work as a hard drive.

    Instructions:

       http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

    Download:

       http://www.chrysocome.net/downloads/dd-0.6beta3.zip

    In an Administrator Command Prompt:

       cd /d C:\where\I\unpacked\my\dd\prog

       dd --list                        # collect win namespace info

     Paul



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Aragorn@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 21 16:53:03 2021
    On 21.10.2021 at 09:30, philo scribbled:

    BTW: Why the heck does Linux use FAT32 as the boot partition, that
    seems like asking for trouble.

    It's part of the UEFI specification. The UEFI firmware needs FAT — or
    a FAT-derivative such as FAT32 or exFAT — for the EFI system
    partition because it doesn't understand any other filesystems.

    On a machine that boots in native UEFI mode, GRUB will install a
    special version of its first stage — effectively an EFI executable — in
    the EFI system partition. On dual-boot/multi-boot machines, this allows
    one to directly choose which operating system to boot from the UEFI boot manager menu.

    Systems that boot in legacy BIOS mode don't have an EFI system
    partition, and then the first stage of GRUB is commonly installed in
    the master boot record of the drive.


    --
    With respect,
    = Aragorn =

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From philo@21:1/5 to Aragorn on Thu Oct 21 09:59:50 2021
    On 10/21/21 9:53 AM, Aragorn wrote:
    On 21.10.2021 at 09:30, philo scribbled:

    BTW: Why the heck does Linux use FAT32 as the boot partition, that
    seems like asking for trouble.

    It's part of the UEFI specification. The UEFI firmware needs FAT — or
    a FAT-derivative such as FAT32 or exFAT — for the EFI system
    partition because it doesn't understand any other filesystems.

    On a machine that boots in native UEFI mode, GRUB will install a
    special version of its first stage — effectively an EFI executable — in the EFI system partition. On dual-boot/multi-boot machines, this allows
    one to directly choose which operating system to boot from the UEFI boot manager menu.

    Systems that boot in legacy BIOS mode don't have an EFI system
    partition, and then the first stage of GRUB is commonly installed in
    the master boot record of the drive.





    Aha!

    Well the machine has a legacy BIOS so I don't need that partition then
    but if I simply clone the system drive to the new drive, the machine
    won't boot unless I also clone the boot sector.

    At any rate, this is not as easy as it should be.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Aragorn@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 21 16:56:09 2021
    On 21.10.2021 at 09:50, philo scribbled:

    On 10/21/21 9:38 AM, Paul wrote:

    # Show us an example of your invocation please :-)

      sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc

    Without the sudo, it will end badly.

    Is sudo necessary from a live DVD?

    I can open gparted, for example directly

    I don't ever recall using sudo from a live DVD

    It depends on the live CD. Some live CDs have a polkit setup that
    allows you to do things without needing sudo or su.

    --
    With respect,
    = Aragorn =

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From philo@21:1/5 to Aragorn on Thu Oct 21 10:01:20 2021
    On 10/21/21 9:56 AM, Aragorn wrote:
    On 21.10.2021 at 09:50, philo scribbled:

    On 10/21/21 9:38 AM, Paul wrote:

    # Show us an example of your invocation please :-)

      sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc

    Without the sudo, it will end badly.

    Is sudo necessary from a live DVD?

    I can open gparted, for example directly

    I don't ever recall using sudo from a live DVD

    It depends on the live CD. Some live CDs have a polkit setup that
    allows you to do things without needing sudo or su.




    AFAIK sudo is not needed, and were it so, I have no idea what the
    password would be.

    There should be a simple way to clone a Linux drive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From philo@21:1/5 to Aragorn on Thu Oct 21 10:56:27 2021
    On 10/21/21 9:56 AM, Aragorn wrote:
    On 21.10.2021 at 09:50, philo scribbled:

    On 10/21/21 9:38 AM, Paul wrote:

    # Show us an example of your invocation please :-)

      sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc

    Without the sudo, it will end badly.

    Is sudo necessary from a live DVD?

    I can open gparted, for example directly

    I don't ever recall using sudo from a live DVD

    It depends on the live CD. Some live CDs have a polkit setup that
    allows you to do things without needing sudo or su.



    I am now running the clone operation from a machine with Linux on it and
    not a live DVD. It is now in the clone process, when it's done, I will
    confirm that it boots.


    Now I have to figure out if sudo can be used on a live DVD

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From philo@21:1/5 to philo on Thu Oct 21 12:34:48 2021
    On 10/21/21 9:30 AM, philo wrote:
    All I wanted to do was use dd to clone a Mint Linux installation on an
    ATA drive over to a SATA.


    I booted from a Ubuntu 20.04 live DVD and when I used dd
    I got "permission" denied /dev/sda     (source)

    I've used dd before to clone Windows and Mac drives and it worked, so I
    don't know what is going on here.


    I tried Clonezilla and it said it had an unrepairable problem with the
    boot partition.


    I don't get it, the machine boots just fine.


    BTW: Why the heck does Linux use FAT32 as the boot partition, that seems
    like asking for trouble.


    Just for fun, I did run CHKDSK  (without the /f) on that partition from
    a Windows machine and no problems were found.




    With all the time I've wasted, I could have done a fresh install already
    but am curious as to what is going on.




    Indeed, I should have used sudo from the live DVD

    thank you

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to philo on Thu Oct 21 14:44:58 2021
    On 10/21/2021 1:34 PM, philo wrote:
    On 10/21/21 9:30 AM, philo wrote:
    All I wanted to do was use dd to clone a Mint Linux installation on an ATA drive over to a SATA.


    I booted from a Ubuntu 20.04 live DVD and when I used dd
    I got "permission" denied /dev/sda     (source)

    I've used dd before to clone Windows and Mac drives and it worked, so I don't know what is going on here.


    I tried Clonezilla and it said it had an unrepairable problem with the boot partition.


    I don't get it, the machine boots just fine.


    BTW: Why the heck does Linux use FAT32 as the boot partition, that seems like asking for trouble.


    Just for fun, I did run CHKDSK  (without the /f) on that partition from a Windows machine and no problems were found.




    With all the time I've wasted, I could have done a fresh install already but am curious as to what is going on.




    Indeed, I should have used sudo from the live DVD

    thank you

    And the Live Session does not ask for the password,
    on some of the ones I've used here at least.

    It's really an easy-going situation :-)

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From philo@21:1/5 to Paul on Thu Oct 21 14:57:57 2021
    On 10/21/21 1:44 PM, Paul wrote:
    On 10/21/2021 1:34 PM, philo wrote:
    On 10/21/21 9:30 AM, philo wrote:
    All I wanted to do was use dd to clone a Mint Linux installation on
    an ATA drive over to a SATA.


    I booted from a Ubuntu 20.04 live DVD and when I used dd
    I got "permission" denied /dev/sda     (source)

    I've used dd before to clone Windows and Mac drives and it worked, so
    I don't know what is going on here.


    I tried Clonezilla and it said it had an unrepairable problem with
    the boot partition.


    I don't get it, the machine boots just fine.


    BTW: Why the heck does Linux use FAT32 as the boot partition, that
    seems like asking for trouble.


    Just for fun, I did run CHKDSK  (without the /f) on that partition
    from a Windows machine and no problems were found.




    With all the time I've wasted, I could have done a fresh install
    already but am curious as to what is going on.




    Indeed, I should have used sudo from the live DVD

    thank you

    And the Live Session does not ask for the password,
    on some of the ones I've used here at least.

    It's really an easy-going situation :-)

       Paul



    Yep. All I had to do was use sudo and that was it

    Anyway as it turned out dd worked fine but there was another problem as
    grub did not recognize a file system.

    I had a look at both the original and the cloned drive in gparted and
    where the ext4 partition should have been it listed and unknown partition.


    I then decided to just do a fresh install on my "new" drive...that only
    took a few minutes.

    Then I decided to delete all on the original drive but I first confirmed
    that it was bootable and it was.

    With gparted I first deleted the UEFI partition...as soon as I did, the unrecognized partition showed up as ext4 and I could not delete it or
    unmount it>

    It said device is busy ...even after a reboot.


    I finally took the mfg's tools and did a quick zero wipe and put the
    drive back in storage.


    Sheesh.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to philo on Thu Oct 21 16:46:21 2021
    On 10/21/2021 3:57 PM, philo wrote:
    On 10/21/21 1:44 PM, Paul wrote:
    On 10/21/2021 1:34 PM, philo wrote:
    On 10/21/21 9:30 AM, philo wrote:
    All I wanted to do was use dd to clone a Mint Linux installation on an ATA drive over to a SATA.


    I booted from a Ubuntu 20.04 live DVD and when I used dd
    I got "permission" denied /dev/sda     (source)

    I've used dd before to clone Windows and Mac drives and it worked, so I don't know what is going on here.


    I tried Clonezilla and it said it had an unrepairable problem with the boot partition.


    I don't get it, the machine boots just fine.


    BTW: Why the heck does Linux use FAT32 as the boot partition, that seems like asking for trouble.


    Just for fun, I did run CHKDSK  (without the /f) on that partition from a Windows machine and no problems were found.




    With all the time I've wasted, I could have done a fresh install already but am curious as to what is going on.




    Indeed, I should have used sudo from the live DVD

    thank you

    And the Live Session does not ask for the password,
    on some of the ones I've used here at least.

    It's really an easy-going situation :-)

        Paul



    Yep. All I had to do was use sudo and that was it

    Anyway as it turned out dd worked fine but there was another problem as grub did not recognize a file system.

    I had a look at both the original and the cloned drive in gparted and where the ext4 partition should have been it listed and unknown partition.


    I then decided to just do a fresh install on my "new" drive...that only took a few minutes.

    Then I decided to delete all on the original drive but I first confirmed that it was bootable and it was.

    With gparted I first deleted the UEFI partition...as soon as I did, the unrecognized partition showed up as ext4 and I could not delete it or unmount it>

    It said device is busy ...even after a reboot.


    I finally took the mfg's tools and did a quick zero wipe and put the drive back in storage.


    Sheesh.

    When you "clone" with "dd", that is too exact of a copy.

    Being lazy individuals, that's why we search for "smart"
    cloning tools, that reduce the labor needed to complete a clone.

    The problem is, the second drive needs blkid changed on the
    partitions, and blkid identifiers to be changed in GRUB things.
    Such a procedure would make the source drive and the
    destination drive "independent" of one another.

    The fun begins, if you clone a disk, and now there are
    two identical disks installed in the computer. Imagine
    GRUBs surprise when it finds two slash partitions with
    exactly the same identifier. The boot process could jump off
    one disk, onto the other.

    This is something the Macrium Boot Repair on the CD, does for
    Windows partitions. Is modify the GUIDs in the boot menu, so
    that two clones are independent of one another.

    This is why you might want to try "lsblk" or similar
    and see what the identifiers look like.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From philo@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 21 21:51:11 2021
    Well, I am now done with my project.

    On my bench...test machine I got rid of all the ATA drives.

    I now have Ubuntu, Win2k, XP, Win7 and Win10 each on its own drive.
    The machine is a dual core 2ghz CPU with 4 gigs of RAM.

    My other machine is an AMD 550 and I have a huge box full of drives for running older OSes such as Nt3.51 and OS/2.
    I even have Windows 2 and 3.0

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jonathan N. Little@21:1/5 to philo on Fri Oct 22 14:27:40 2021
    philo wrote:
    On 10/21/21 9:56 AM, Aragorn wrote:
    On 21.10.2021 at 09:50, philo scribbled:

    On 10/21/21 9:38 AM, Paul wrote:

    # Show us an example of your invocation please :-)

        sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc

    Without the sudo, it will end badly.

    Is sudo necessary from a live DVD?

    I can open gparted, for example directly

    I don't ever recall using sudo from a live DVD

    It depends on the live CD.  Some live CDs have a polkit setup that
    allows you to do things without needing sudo or su.




    AFAIK sudo is not needed, and were it so, I have no idea what the
    password would be.

    There should be a simple way to clone a Linux drive


    With the Ubuntu CD your are user ubuntu and the password is "" empty so
    when using sudo just hit enter at the password prompt. Of course if you
    want you can set a password with command passwd...


    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From philo@21:1/5 to Jonathan N. Little on Fri Oct 22 16:42:51 2021
    On 10/22/21 1:27 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    philo wrote:
    On 10/21/21 9:56 AM, Aragorn wrote:
    On 21.10.2021 at 09:50, philo scribbled:

    On 10/21/21 9:38 AM, Paul wrote:

    # Show us an example of your invocation please :-)

        sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc

    Without the sudo, it will end badly.

    Is sudo necessary from a live DVD?

    I can open gparted, for example directly

    I don't ever recall using sudo from a live DVD

    It depends on the live CD.  Some live CDs have a polkit setup that
    allows you to do things without needing sudo or su.




    AFAIK sudo is not needed, and were it so, I have no idea what the
    password would be.

    There should be a simple way to clone a Linux drive


    With the Ubuntu CD your are user ubuntu and the password is "" empty so
    when using sudo just hit enter at the password prompt. Of course if you
    want you can set a password with command passwd...




    Yep.

    Next time, I will know

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)