First - a quick review is in order. I've demonstrated that I will do
precisely what I say I will: to wit, I will match in length, detail,
and number of citations any scenario posted by a believer. I've done
so repeatedly, and invariably, believers then run away. I then
demonstrated that the Warren Commission refused to investigate prior assassination attempts that would have shed light on the conspiracy to
murder the President. I then showed that the Warren Commission had
their "conclusions" in written form before they interviewed a single
witness... and that the Commission clearly indicated a desire **NOT**
to hold a real investigation. I then demonstrated that the evidence
from just moments after the shooting strongly supported a shooter at
the Grassy Knoll. I went on to show that the original medical opinion
within hours was for a frontal shot striking JFK. I then demonstrated
that believers deny what the Commission stated about when Connally is
seen reacting to a shot in the film, yet refuse to *explain* that
reaction. I demonstrated that the Warren Commission provably lied
about which shot struck Connally. I then demonstrated that there's
*no* evidence for transit - which is necessary to an SBT. I then
demonstrated that the Edgewood Arsenal tests contradicted the Warren Commission's theory, and they simply ignored those facts. I then
covered evidence tending to show that the Autopsy Report isn't the
original one. I then demonstrated that CE-399 doesn't have any valid
chain of custody. In the last three posts, I showed how one of the
assassins was clearly identified by numerous witnesses as wearing a
white shirt, and was arrested - but wasn't Oswald. In the last two
posts, I've pointed out the evidence for fraudulent alteration of the
medical evidence. The last post showed provable alteration of an
original FBI signed & dated report, as well as the problems with the
alleged "paper bag." I then showed the problems of the BOH photo, and
the scientific evidence for a frontal shot.

Vincent Bugliosi wrote what has been hailed as the ultimate defense of
the Warren Commission's theory that a lone assassin, Lee Harvey
Oswald, murdered JFK by himself. Let's see if Bugliosi actually dealt
with the real evidence of conspiracy or not...

From Reclaiming History: *********************************************************
"James Fetzer, PhD, is the editor of the only exclusively scientific
books (three) on the assassination. David Mantik, MD, PhD, is among
the leading conspiracy researchers and writers in the current
conspiracy community. They are both good and sincere men. Dr. Fetzer
wrote me on January, 23, 2001;

'What would it take, David Mantik has asked me to inquire of you. What
would it take to convince you of the existence of a conspiracy and
cover-up in the death of JFK? What would it take to persuade you of
Oswald's innocence, which is not necessarily the same thing? Are none
of our major discoveries - our '16 smoking guns,' for example -
convincing? And if not, why? And, if not, then what would it take?'

Only evidence, Drs. Fetzer and Mantik. Only evidence." - Reclaiming
History, page 974.
*********************************************************

Sadly, although the above quote from Bugliosi's book makes it quite
clear that Bugliosi was well acquainted with the 16 smoking guns...
Bugliosi didn't have the guts to actually address these issues.

For in what has become EXPECTED BEHAVIOR for Warren Commission
defenders, Bugliosi too refuses to answer the evidence.

David Mantik made the mistake of thinking that he was addressing the
question to an honest man. A mistake that I rarely make - having had
much experience with the sort of Warren Commission defenders who
inhabit forums.

Although the details of each "Smoking Gun" must be appreciated by
reading the book - here's a synopsis of what Bugliosi simply ran away
from:

*************************************************************
For the official government account of the death of JFK to be true,
therefore, at least the following three conjectures - "hypotheses,"
let us call them, to avoid begging the question by taking for granted
what needs to be established on independent grounds - have to be true:
(H1) JFK was hit at the base of the back of his neck by a bullet that transversed his neck without hitting any bony structures and exited
his throat at the level of his tie;

(H2) JFK was hit in the back of his head by a bullet fired from the
sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, as its diagrams
display, causing his death; and,

(H3) these bullets were fired by a sole assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald,
using a high powered rifle, which was identified as a 6.5 mm Italian Mannlicher-Carcano.

Smoking Gun #1: (H1) is an anatomical impossibility, because the
bullet would have had to impact bony structures.

Smoking Gun #2: The head shot trajectory is inconsistent with the
position of his head at the time of the shot, falsifying (H2).

Smoking Gun #3: The weapon, which was not even a rifle, could not have
fired the bullets that killed the President, falsifying (H3).

Smoking Gun #4: The bullets, which were standard copper-jacketed World
War II vintage military ammunition, could not have caused the
explosive damage.

Smoking Gun #5: The axis of metallic debris is inconsistent with a
shot from behind but consistent with a shot that entered the area of
the right temple.

Smoking Gun #6: The official autopsy report was contradicted by more
than 40 eyewitness reports and was inconsistent with HSCA diagrams and photographs.

Smoking Gun #7: These eyewitness reports were rejected on the basis of
the X-rays, which have been fabricated in at least two different ways.
Smoking Gun #8: Diagrams and photos of a brain in the National
Archives are of the brain of someone other than JFK.

Smoking Gun #9: Those who took and processed the autopsy photographs
claim that parts of the photographic record have been altered,
created, or destroyed.

Smoking Gun #10: The Zapruder film, among others, has been extensively
edited using highly sophisticated techniques.

Smoking Gun #11: The official conclusion contradicts widely-broadcast
reports on radio and television about two shots fired from the front.

Smoking Gun #12: The (fabricated) X-rays, (altered) autopsy
photographs, and even the (edited) Zapruder film were improperly used
to discredit eyewitness reports.

Smoking Gun #13: The motorcade route was changed at the last minute
and yet the assassination occurred on the part that had been changed.

Smoking Gun #14: Secret Service policies for the protection of the
President were massively violated during the motorcade in Dallas.

Smoking Gun #15: Neither the Mafia nor pro- or anti-Castro Cubans nor
the KGB could have done any of these things - [fabricated autopsy
X-rays; substituted the brain of someone else for the brain of JFK;
created, altered, or destroyed autopsy photographs; or subjected
motion pictures, such as the Zapruder film, to extensive editing using
highly sophisticated techniques] - much less Lee Oswald, who was
either incarcerated or already dead.

Smoking Gun #16: Many individuals knew details about the assassination
before and after the fact, all of whom viewed Lee Oswald as no more
than a patsy.
*************************************************************

Now, if you'd like to claim that these were addressed by Bugliosi
(rather than just referred to), you'll have to cite the page number,
or QUOTE the response.

But you won't...

And the 15 Smoking Guns remain as strong evidence indeed that there
was a conspiracy in this case, and that believers cannot address that
evidence for conspiracy. Bugliosi couldn't do it, John McAdams failed
to do it, and no believer in these forums has dared to take on this
evidence. Neither will Chickenshit, Chuckles, or Huckster Sienzant...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 07:34:28 -0800, Ben Holmes
<Admin@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

First - a quick review is in order. I've demonstrated that I will do >precisely what I say I will: to wit, I will match in length, detail,
and number of citations any scenario posted by a believer. I've done
so repeatedly, and invariably, believers then run away. I then
demonstrated that the Warren Commission refused to investigate prior >assassination attempts that would have shed light on the conspiracy to
murder the President. I then showed that the Warren Commission had
their "conclusions" in written form before they interviewed a single >witness... and that the Commission clearly indicated a desire **NOT**
to hold a real investigation. I then demonstrated that the evidence
from just moments after the shooting strongly supported a shooter at
the Grassy Knoll. I went on to show that the original medical opinion
within hours was for a frontal shot striking JFK. I then demonstrated
that believers deny what the Commission stated about when Connally is
seen reacting to a shot in the film, yet refuse to *explain* that
reaction. I demonstrated that the Warren Commission provably lied
about which shot struck Connally. I then demonstrated that there's
*no* evidence for transit - which is necessary to an SBT. I then
demonstrated that the Edgewood Arsenal tests contradicted the Warren >Commission's theory, and they simply ignored those facts. I then
covered evidence tending to show that the Autopsy Report isn't the
original one. I then demonstrated that CE-399 doesn't have any valid
chain of custody. In the last three posts, I showed how one of the
assassins was clearly identified by numerous witnesses as wearing a
white shirt, and was arrested - but wasn't Oswald. In the last two
posts, I've pointed out the evidence for fraudulent alteration of the
medical evidence. The last post showed provable alteration of an
original FBI signed & dated report, as well as the problems with the
alleged "paper bag." I then showed the problems of the BOH photo, and
the scientific evidence for a frontal shot.

Vincent Bugliosi wrote what has been hailed as the ultimate defense of
the Warren Commission's theory that a lone assassin, Lee Harvey
Oswald, murdered JFK by himself. Let's see if Bugliosi actually dealt
with the real evidence of conspiracy or not...

From Reclaiming History: >*********************************************************
"James Fetzer, PhD, is the editor of the only exclusively scientific
books (three) on the assassination. David Mantik, MD, PhD, is among
the leading conspiracy researchers and writers in the current
conspiracy community. They are both good and sincere men. Dr. Fetzer
wrote me on January, 23, 2001;

'What would it take, David Mantik has asked me to inquire of you. What
would it take to convince you of the existence of a conspiracy and
cover-up in the death of JFK? What would it take to persuade you of
Oswald's innocence, which is not necessarily the same thing? Are none
of our major discoveries - our '16 smoking guns,' for example -
convincing? And if not, why? And, if not, then what would it take?'

Only evidence, Drs. Fetzer and Mantik. Only evidence." - Reclaiming
History, page 974.
*********************************************************

Sadly, although the above quote from Bugliosi's book makes it quite
clear that Bugliosi was well acquainted with the 16 smoking guns...
Bugliosi didn't have the guts to actually address these issues.

For in what has become EXPECTED BEHAVIOR for Warren Commission
defenders, Bugliosi too refuses to answer the evidence.

David Mantik made the mistake of thinking that he was addressing the
question to an honest man. A mistake that I rarely make - having had
much experience with the sort of Warren Commission defenders who
inhabit forums.

Although the details of each "Smoking Gun" must be appreciated by
reading the book - here's a synopsis of what Bugliosi simply ran away
from:

*************************************************************
For the official government account of the death of JFK to be true, >therefore, at least the following three conjectures - "hypotheses,"
let us call them, to avoid begging the question by taking for granted
what needs to be established on independent grounds - have to be true:
(H1) JFK was hit at the base of the back of his neck by a bullet that >transversed his neck without hitting any bony structures and exited
his throat at the level of his tie;

(H2) JFK was hit in the back of his head by a bullet fired from the
sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, as its diagrams
display, causing his death; and,

(H3) these bullets were fired by a sole assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald,
using a high powered rifle, which was identified as a 6.5 mm Italian >Mannlicher-Carcano.

Smoking Gun #1: (H1) is an anatomical impossibility, because the
bullet would have had to impact bony structures.

Smoking Gun #2: The head shot trajectory is inconsistent with the
position of his head at the time of the shot, falsifying (H2).

Smoking Gun #3: The weapon, which was not even a rifle, could not have
fired the bullets that killed the President, falsifying (H3).

Smoking Gun #4: The bullets, which were standard copper-jacketed World
War II vintage military ammunition, could not have caused the
explosive damage.

Smoking Gun #5: The axis of metallic debris is inconsistent with a
shot from behind but consistent with a shot that entered the area of
the right temple.

Smoking Gun #6: The official autopsy report was contradicted by more
than 40 eyewitness reports and was inconsistent with HSCA diagrams and >photographs.

Smoking Gun #7: These eyewitness reports were rejected on the basis of
the X-rays, which have been fabricated in at least two different ways. >Smoking Gun #8: Diagrams and photos of a brain in the National
Archives are of the brain of someone other than JFK.

Smoking Gun #9: Those who took and processed the autopsy photographs
claim that parts of the photographic record have been altered,
created, or destroyed.

Smoking Gun #10: The Zapruder film, among others, has been extensively
edited using highly sophisticated techniques.

Smoking Gun #11: The official conclusion contradicts widely-broadcast
reports on radio and television about two shots fired from the front.

Smoking Gun #12: The (fabricated) X-rays, (altered) autopsy
photographs, and even the (edited) Zapruder film were improperly used
to discredit eyewitness reports.

Smoking Gun #13: The motorcade route was changed at the last minute
and yet the assassination occurred on the part that had been changed.

Smoking Gun #14: Secret Service policies for the protection of the
President were massively violated during the motorcade in Dallas.

Smoking Gun #15: Neither the Mafia nor pro- or anti-Castro Cubans nor
the KGB could have done any of these things - [fabricated autopsy
X-rays; substituted the brain of someone else for the brain of JFK;
created, altered, or destroyed autopsy photographs; or subjected
motion pictures, such as the Zapruder film, to extensive editing using
highly sophisticated techniques] - much less Lee Oswald, who was
either incarcerated or already dead.

Smoking Gun #16: Many individuals knew details about the assassination
before and after the fact, all of whom viewed Lee Oswald as no more
than a patsy.
*************************************************************

Now, if you'd like to claim that these were addressed by Bugliosi
(rather than just referred to), you'll have to cite the page number,
or QUOTE the response.

But you won't...

And the 15 Smoking Guns remain as strong evidence indeed that there
was a conspiracy in this case, and that believers cannot address that >evidence for conspiracy. Bugliosi couldn't do it, John McAdams failed
to do it, and no believer in these forums has dared to take on this
evidence. Neither will Chickenshit, Chuckles, or Huckster Sienzant...

And, as predicted, everyone ran. Believers are cowards who *CANNOT*
refute the truth.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 1 Feb 2024 15:13:21 -0800 (PST), Hank Sienzant
<hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 10:34:35?AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:

First - a quick review is in order. I've demonstrated that I will do
precisely what I say I will: to wit, I will match in length, detail,
and number of citations any scenario posted by a believer. I've done
so repeatedly, and invariably, believers then run away. I then
demonstrated that the Warren Commission refused to investigate prior
assassination attempts that would have shed light on the conspiracy to
murder the President. I then showed that the Warren Commission had
their "conclusions" in written form before they interviewed a single
witness... and that the Commission clearly indicated a desire **NOT**
to hold a real investigation. I then demonstrated that the evidence
from just moments after the shooting strongly supported a shooter at
the Grassy Knoll. I went on to show that the original medical opinion
within hours was for a frontal shot striking JFK. I then demonstrated
that believers deny what the Commission stated about when Connally is
seen reacting to a shot in the film, yet refuse to *explain* that
reaction. I demonstrated that the Warren Commission provably lied
about which shot struck Connally. I then demonstrated that there's
*no* evidence for transit - which is necessary to an SBT. I then
demonstrated that the Edgewood Arsenal tests contradicted the Warren
Commission's theory, and they simply ignored those facts. I then
covered evidence tending to show that the Autopsy Report isn't the
original one. I then demonstrated that CE-399 doesn't have any valid
chain of custody. In the last three posts, I showed how one of the
assassins was clearly identified by numerous witnesses as wearing a
white shirt, and was arrested - but wasn't Oswald. In the last two
posts, I've pointed out the evidence for fraudulent alteration of the
medical evidence. The last post showed provable alteration of an
original FBI signed & dated report, as well as the problems with the
alleged "paper bag." I then showed the problems of the BOH photo, and
the scientific evidence for a frontal shot.

Vincent Bugliosi wrote what has been hailed as the ultimate defense of
the Warren Commission's theory that a lone assassin, Lee Harvey
Oswald, murdered JFK by himself. Let's see if Bugliosi actually dealt
with the real evidence of conspiracy or not...

From Reclaiming History:
*********************************************************
"James Fetzer, PhD, is the editor of the only exclusively scientific
books (three) on the assassination. David Mantik, MD, PhD, is among
the leading conspiracy researchers and writers in the current
conspiracy community. They are both good and sincere men. Dr. Fetzer
wrote me on January, 23, 2001;

'What would it take, David Mantik has asked me to inquire of you. What
would it take to convince you of the existence of a conspiracy and
cover-up in the death of JFK? What would it take to persuade you of
Oswald's innocence, which is not necessarily the same thing? Are none
of our major discoveries - our '16 smoking guns,' for example -
convincing? And if not, why? And, if not, then what would it take?'

Only evidence, Drs. Fetzer and Mantik. Only evidence." - Reclaiming
History, page 974.
*********************************************************

Sadly, although the above quote from Bugliosi's book makes it quite
clear that Bugliosi was well acquainted with the 16 smoking guns...
Bugliosi didn't have the guts to actually address these issues.

For in what has become EXPECTED BEHAVIOR for Warren Commission
defenders, Bugliosi too refuses to answer the evidence.

David Mantik made the mistake of thinking that he was addressing the
question to an honest man. A mistake that I rarely make - having had
much experience with the sort of Warren Commission defenders who
inhabit forums.

Although the details of each "Smoking Gun" must be appreciated by
reading the book - here's a synopsis of what Bugliosi simply ran away
from:

*************************************************************
For the official government account of the death of JFK to be true,
therefore, at least the following three conjectures - "hypotheses,"
let us call them, to avoid begging the question by taking for granted
what needs to be established on independent grounds - have to be true:
(H1) JFK was hit at the base of the back of his neck by a bullet that
transversed his neck without hitting any bony structures and exited
his throat at the level of his tie;

(H2) JFK was hit in the back of his head by a bullet fired from the
sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, as its diagrams
display, causing his death; and,

(H3) these bullets were fired by a sole assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald,
using a high powered rifle, which was identified as a 6.5 mm Italian
Mannlicher-Carcano.

Smoking Gun #1: (H1) is an anatomical impossibility, because the
bullet would have had to impact bony structures.

Smoking Gun #2: The head shot trajectory is inconsistent with the
position of his head at the time of the shot, falsifying (H2).

Smoking Gun #3: The weapon, which was not even a rifle, could not have
fired the bullets that killed the President, falsifying (H3).

Smoking Gun #4: The bullets, which were standard copper-jacketed World
War II vintage military ammunition, could not have caused the
explosive damage.

Smoking Gun #5: The axis of metallic debris is inconsistent with a
shot from behind but consistent with a shot that entered the area of
the right temple.

Smoking Gun #6: The official autopsy report was contradicted by more
than 40 eyewitness reports and was inconsistent with HSCA diagrams and
photographs.

Smoking Gun #7: These eyewitness reports were rejected on the basis of
the X-rays, which have been fabricated in at least two different ways.
Smoking Gun #8: Diagrams and photos of a brain in the National
Archives are of the brain of someone other than JFK.

Smoking Gun #9: Those who took and processed the autopsy photographs
claim that parts of the photographic record have been altered,
created, or destroyed.

Smoking Gun #10: The Zapruder film, among others, has been extensively
edited using highly sophisticated techniques.

Smoking Gun #11: The official conclusion contradicts widely-broadcast
reports on radio and television about two shots fired from the front.

Smoking Gun #12: The (fabricated) X-rays, (altered) autopsy
photographs, and even the (edited) Zapruder film were improperly used
to discredit eyewitness reports.

Smoking Gun #13: The motorcade route was changed at the last minute
and yet the assassination occurred on the part that had been changed.

Smoking Gun #14: Secret Service policies for the protection of the
President were massively violated during the motorcade in Dallas.

Smoking Gun #15: Neither the Mafia nor pro- or anti-Castro Cubans nor
the KGB could have done any of these things - [fabricated autopsy
X-rays; substituted the brain of someone else for the brain of JFK;
created, altered, or destroyed autopsy photographs; or subjected
motion pictures, such as the Zapruder film, to extensive editing using
highly sophisticated techniques] - much less Lee Oswald, who was
either incarcerated or already dead.

Smoking Gun #16: Many individuals knew details about the assassination
before and after the fact, all of whom viewed Lee Oswald as no more
than a patsy.
*************************************************************

Now, if you'd like to claim that these were addressed by Bugliosi
(rather than just referred to), you'll have to cite the page number,
or QUOTE the response.

But you won't...

And the 15 Smoking Guns remain as strong evidence indeed that there
was a conspiracy in this case, and that believers cannot address that
evidence for conspiracy. Bugliosi couldn't do it, John McAdams failed
to do it, and no believer in these forums has dared to take on this
evidence. Neither will Chickenshit, Chuckles, or Huckster Sienzant...

Amusingly, still true. And no, neither did Von Penis.

A. Your list of 15 or 16 (you reference both numbers) supposed “smoking guns” is nothing more than a Gish Gallop logical fallacy where you throw a lot of stuff on the wall hoping some of it sticks.

B. Every one of those points can be followed by the simple question, “according to who?” No evidence is cited, no expert testimony is referenced, no tests conducted.

C. You post those supposed “smoking guns” and proclaim they are true, but you never take even the first step to establish that for any of those items. Instead, you merely shift the burden of proof once more, expecting others to disprove your claims.

D. This is merely another fringe reset by you. Over a decade ago, David Von Pein addressed these claims of yours here:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/T5q7El8jV2E/m/QQsNVlTpCgAJ

Refuted here: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/T5q7El8jV2E/m/u9QD9YFvAAAJ

C. You pretend Fetzer is a conspiracy expert but Fetzer apparently
never met a conspiracy theory he didn’t like. Can you name one
conspiracy theory Fetzer rejected as too outlandish to make sense to a reasonable man?

Can you name this obvious logical fallacy?


Insulting Bugliosi, who referenced these same 16 smoking guns, shows
that you're a coward.

As does this:

You've claimed that the "A.B.C.D." in the Autopsy Report is the
description of the *location* of the large head wound.

Yet you refuse time and time again from QUOTING the preceding
paragraph that describes what this ACTUALLY is. Why is that?

You've also claimed that the prosectors dissected the throat wound.

Why do you continue to refuse to cite any evidence for this?

Why have you CONSISTENTLY run away each time I raise this issue?

Now you've quite stupidly insisted that the bullet entered JFK's back,
and exited the back of his head.

More cowardice, more stupidity, more dishonesty.

Are you proud of yourself?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 1 Feb 2024 15:16:35 -0800 (PST), Hank Sienzant
<hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 10:34:35?AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:

First - a quick review is in order. I've demonstrated that I will do
precisely what I say I will: to wit, I will match in length, detail,
and number of citations any scenario posted by a believer. I've done
so repeatedly, and invariably, believers then run away. I then
demonstrated that the Warren Commission refused to investigate prior
assassination attempts that would have shed light on the conspiracy to
murder the President. I then showed that the Warren Commission had
their "conclusions" in written form before they interviewed a single
witness... and that the Commission clearly indicated a desire **NOT**
to hold a real investigation. I then demonstrated that the evidence
from just moments after the shooting strongly supported a shooter at
the Grassy Knoll. I went on to show that the original medical opinion
within hours was for a frontal shot striking JFK. I then demonstrated
that believers deny what the Commission stated about when Connally is
seen reacting to a shot in the film, yet refuse to *explain* that
reaction. I demonstrated that the Warren Commission provably lied
about which shot struck Connally. I then demonstrated that there's
*no* evidence for transit - which is necessary to an SBT. I then
demonstrated that the Edgewood Arsenal tests contradicted the Warren
Commission's theory, and they simply ignored those facts. I then
covered evidence tending to show that the Autopsy Report isn't the
original one. I then demonstrated that CE-399 doesn't have any valid
chain of custody. In the last three posts, I showed how one of the
assassins was clearly identified by numerous witnesses as wearing a
white shirt, and was arrested - but wasn't Oswald. In the last two
posts, I've pointed out the evidence for fraudulent alteration of the
medical evidence. The last post showed provable alteration of an
original FBI signed & dated report, as well as the problems with the
alleged "paper bag." I then showed the problems of the BOH photo, and
the scientific evidence for a frontal shot.

Vincent Bugliosi wrote what has been hailed as the ultimate defense of
the Warren Commission's theory that a lone assassin, Lee Harvey
Oswald, murdered JFK by himself. Let's see if Bugliosi actually dealt
with the real evidence of conspiracy or not...

From Reclaiming History:
*********************************************************
"James Fetzer, PhD, is the editor of the only exclusively scientific
books (three) on the assassination. David Mantik, MD, PhD, is among
the leading conspiracy researchers and writers in the current
conspiracy community. They are both good and sincere men. Dr. Fetzer
wrote me on January, 23, 2001;

'What would it take, David Mantik has asked me to inquire of you. What
would it take to convince you of the existence of a conspiracy and
cover-up in the death of JFK? What would it take to persuade you of
Oswald's innocence, which is not necessarily the same thing? Are none
of our major discoveries - our '16 smoking guns,' for example -
convincing? And if not, why? And, if not, then what would it take?'

Only evidence, Drs. Fetzer and Mantik. Only evidence." - Reclaiming
History, page 974.
*********************************************************

Sadly, although the above quote from Bugliosi's book makes it quite
clear that Bugliosi was well acquainted with the 16 smoking guns...
Bugliosi didn't have the guts to actually address these issues.

For in what has become EXPECTED BEHAVIOR for Warren Commission
defenders, Bugliosi too refuses to answer the evidence.

David Mantik made the mistake of thinking that he was addressing the
question to an honest man. A mistake that I rarely make - having had
much experience with the sort of Warren Commission defenders who
inhabit forums.

Although the details of each "Smoking Gun" must be appreciated by
reading the book - here's a synopsis of what Bugliosi simply ran away
from:

*************************************************************
For the official government account of the death of JFK to be true,
therefore, at least the following three conjectures - "hypotheses,"
let us call them, to avoid begging the question by taking for granted
what needs to be established on independent grounds - have to be true:
(H1) JFK was hit at the base of the back of his neck by a bullet that
transversed his neck without hitting any bony structures and exited
his throat at the level of his tie;

(H2) JFK was hit in the back of his head by a bullet fired from the
sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, as its diagrams
display, causing his death; and,

(H3) these bullets were fired by a sole assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald,
using a high powered rifle, which was identified as a 6.5 mm Italian
Mannlicher-Carcano.

Smoking Gun #1: (H1) is an anatomical impossibility, because the
bullet would have had to impact bony structures.

Smoking Gun #2: The head shot trajectory is inconsistent with the
position of his head at the time of the shot, falsifying (H2).

Smoking Gun #3: The weapon, which was not even a rifle, could not have
fired the bullets that killed the President, falsifying (H3).

Smoking Gun #4: The bullets, which were standard copper-jacketed World
War II vintage military ammunition, could not have caused the
explosive damage.

Smoking Gun #5: The axis of metallic debris is inconsistent with a
shot from behind but consistent with a shot that entered the area of
the right temple.

Smoking Gun #6: The official autopsy report was contradicted by more
than 40 eyewitness reports and was inconsistent with HSCA diagrams and
photographs.

Smoking Gun #7: These eyewitness reports were rejected on the basis of
the X-rays, which have been fabricated in at least two different ways.
Smoking Gun #8: Diagrams and photos of a brain in the National
Archives are of the brain of someone other than JFK.

Smoking Gun #9: Those who took and processed the autopsy photographs
claim that parts of the photographic record have been altered,
created, or destroyed.

Smoking Gun #10: The Zapruder film, among others, has been extensively
edited using highly sophisticated techniques.

Smoking Gun #11: The official conclusion contradicts widely-broadcast
reports on radio and television about two shots fired from the front.

Smoking Gun #12: The (fabricated) X-rays, (altered) autopsy
photographs, and even the (edited) Zapruder film were improperly used
to discredit eyewitness reports.

Smoking Gun #13: The motorcade route was changed at the last minute
and yet the assassination occurred on the part that had been changed.

Smoking Gun #14: Secret Service policies for the protection of the
President were massively violated during the motorcade in Dallas.

Smoking Gun #15: Neither the Mafia nor pro- or anti-Castro Cubans nor
the KGB could have done any of these things - [fabricated autopsy
X-rays; substituted the brain of someone else for the brain of JFK;
created, altered, or destroyed autopsy photographs; or subjected
motion pictures, such as the Zapruder film, to extensive editing using
highly sophisticated techniques] - much less Lee Oswald, who was
either incarcerated or already dead.

Smoking Gun #16: Many individuals knew details about the assassination
before and after the fact, all of whom viewed Lee Oswald as no more
than a patsy.
*************************************************************

Now, if you'd like to claim that these were addressed by Bugliosi
(rather than just referred to), you'll have to cite the page number,
or QUOTE the response.

But you won't...

And the 15 Smoking Guns remain as strong evidence indeed that there
was a conspiracy in this case, and that believers cannot address that
evidence for conspiracy. Bugliosi couldn't do it, John McAdams failed
to do it, and no believer in these forums has dared to take on this
evidence. Neither will Chickenshit, Chuckles, or Huckster Sienzant...

Amusingly, still true. And no, neither did Von Penis.

A. Your list of 15 or 16 (you reference both numbers) supposed “smoking guns” is nothing more than a Gish Gallop logical fallacy where you throw a lot of stuff on the wall hoping some of it sticks.

B. Every one of those points can be followed by the simple question, “according to who?” No evidence is cited, no expert testimony is referenced, no tests conducted.

C. You post those supposed “smoking guns” and proclaim they are true, but you never take even the first step to establish that for any of those items. Instead, you merely shift the burden of proof once more, expecting others to disprove your claims.

D. This is merely another fringe reset by you. Over a decade ago, David Von Pein addressed these claims of yours here:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/T5q7El8jV2E/m/QQsNVlTpCgAJ

Refuted here: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/T5q7El8jV2E/m/u9QD9YFvAAAJ

C. You pretend Fetzer is a conspiracy expert but Fetzer apparently
never met a conspiracy theory he didn’t like. Can you name one
conspiracy theory Fetzer rejected as too outlandish to make sense to a reasonable man?

Can you name this obvious logical fallacy?


Insulting Bugliosi, who referenced these same 16 smoking guns, shows
that you're a coward.

As does this:

You've claimed that the "A.B.C.D." in the Autopsy Report is the
description of the *location* of the large head wound.

Yet you refuse time and time again from QUOTING the preceding
paragraph that describes what this ACTUALLY is. Why is that?

You've also claimed that the prosectors dissected the throat wound.

Why do you continue to refuse to cite any evidence for this?

Why have you CONSISTENTLY run away each time I raise this issue?

Now you've quite stupidly insisted that the bullet entered JFK's back,
and exited the back of his head.

More cowardice, more stupidity, more dishonesty.

Are you proud of yourself?

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