Through movie magic, Secret Service agent Frank Horrigan (Clint Eastwood)vwrc&mid=4217171BE1E3F36DFB274217171BE1E3F36DFB27&FORM=WRVORC
was made part of JFK's presidential detail on 11/22/63 and was riding the >follow up limo when the shots were fired. He described it as follows:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+in+the+fline+of+fire+frank+horrigan+describes+jfk+assassination&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dyoutube%2bin%2bthe%2bfline%2bof%2bfire%2bfrank%2bhorrigan%2bdescribes%2bjfk%2bassassination%26FORM%3dHDRSC1&view=detail&mmscn=
The description draws heavily from how Clint Hill described it in a 60 Minutes >interview conducted by Mike Wallace. It's nice surprising that Horrigan >remembered that JFK was hit by the first shot because that is how Clint Hill >remembered it. Like Hill, Horrigan was guilt ridden that he didn't react fast >enough.
We'll never know why Hill, like others, didn't remember hearing the first shot >which missed. My own believe is the roar of the motorcycles drown out the >crack of the rifle shot as they accelerated out of the sharp turn onto Elm St. >Connally did hear that first shot an instantly recognized it as a rifle shot and
was looking around to see what was happening when he was struck by the
second shot which had passed through JFK.
On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 10:21:46?AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
Speculation isn't evidence.
He thinks if it's in a Hollywood script it must be true.
I eagerly await his review of the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy.
On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 5:47:38?PM UTC-5, JE Corbett wrote:mmscn=vwrc&mid=4217171BE1E3F36DFB274217171BE1E3F36DFB27&FORM=WRVORC
Through movie magic, Secret Service agent Frank Horrigan (Clint Eastwood)
was made part of JFK's presidential detail on 11/22/63 and was riding the
follow up limo when the shots were fired. He described it as follows:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+in+the+fline+of+fire+frank+horrigan+describes+jfk+assassination&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dyoutube%2bin%2bthe%2bfline%2bof%2bfire%2bfrank%2bhorrigan%2bdescribes%2bjfk%2bassassination%26FORM%3dHDRSC1&view=detail&
The description draws heavily from how Clint Hill described it in a 60 Minutes
interview conducted by Mike Wallace. It's nice surprising that Horrigan
remembered that JFK was hit by the first shot because that is how Clint Hill >> remembered it. Like Hill, Horrigan was guilt ridden that he didn't react fast
enough.
We'll never know why Hill, like others, didn't remember hearing the first shot
which missed. My own believe is the roar of the motorcycles drown out the
crack of the rifle shot as they accelerated out of the sharp turn onto Elm St.
Connally did hear that first shot an instantly recognized it as a rifle shot and
was looking around to see what was happening when he was struck by the
second shot which had passed through JFK.
Believe it or not, I actually had a purpose in posting this scene from a fictional movie about a fictional Secret Service
agent who according to the plot had been on JFK's protection detail. This movie came out just two years after the
movie JFK and it still reflects a lot of misconceptions I and many others had about the assassination, primarily a
widespread belief that JFK had been hit by the first shot.
Oliver Stone's movie had reawakened my interest in the
assassination as it did for lots of people, both LNs and CTs. I was still getting up to speed on the facts of the case
as I began discussing the various issues online on the old Prodigy board. By that time, I had reverted to being an LN
after having briefly taken the CT side. I actually postulated that the assassination had happened as Connally believed,
with JFK being hit by the first and third shots and Connally by the second with no misses. As I gathered more facts,
I finally came to the conclusion, as the WC had almost 3 decades earlier, that the 3 hit scenario didn't work. Either one
shot hit both men or there was a second gunman.
It didn't take long to figure out the SBT was the only one that made sense given the evidence.
It was soon after that
I learned that it was a myth that the WC concluded 3 shots had been fired in under 6 seconds.
That was only necessary
if the single bullet had been the first shot but the WC had never concluded that. They only allowed for the possibility.
A second shot single bullet made much more sense and was compatible with Connally's adamant position that he had
been hit by the second shot.
Over the years, through on and off study and online debates, I have further refined my beliefs. DVP's webpage on the
SBT was a real eye opener as it allows us to refine with great precision just when the single bullet struck. We see the
jacket bulge at Z224.
We that JFK's right arm was still moving downward when he reappeared at Z225. We see
both men suddenly flip their arms upward at Z226.
The last piece of the puzzle was reconciling the reaction times.
I had read somewhere that a neurologist had said a startle reaction requires about 200 milliseconds. That equates
to roughly 3 1/2 Z-frames. If that were the case, a Z226 reaction would have put the single bullet striking in the Z222-223
window. That would mean the jacket bulge at Z224 occurred 1-2 frames after the bullet passed through it. Although I
believed that, I was never comfortable with that belief. I since learned there are different types of responses requiring
different times. The fastest is an involuntary reflexive response in which the muscles move almost immediately in response
to an outside stimulus, in this case a bullet strike. These require no interaction with the brain which is why they happen
much more rapidly than startle responses. A reflexive response caused by a bullet hitting at or just before Z224 made
everything fit together. That is why I am now convinced the single bullet struck at or just before Z224 triggering a
simultaneous reaction by JFK and JBC as can readily be seen at Z226.
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 5:44:48?AM UTC-5, Bud wrote:
Conspiracy folks insist on focusing on the wrong things.
Yes, the missed shot is the "wrong thing" to focus on when determining the timing of the shots
and whether they were fired by one man or two. Totally irrelevent.
ROFLMAO
Now you know why he's the Village Idiot.
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 6:30:37?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 5:44:48?AM UTC-5, Bud wrote:
Conspiracy folks insist on focusing on the wrong things.Yes, the missed shot is the "wrong thing" to focus on when determining the timing of the shots
and whether they were fired by one man or two. Totally irrelevent.
ROFLMAO
Now you know why he's the Village Idiot.
DPD had solved it in the first 12 hours.
It isn't the least bit important to pinpoint the time the first shot was fired or the total time the shooter took to fire
all three shots.
It is enough to establish that the shot was fired before the observable reaction by Connally which
began at Z164 when he suddenly turned to look over his right shoulder, a move he described in his testimony and
which is corroborated by the Z-film.
He said he made that turn because he heard a loud noise which he immediately >recognized as a rifle shot and sounded like it came from over his right shoulder. You just made a big deal about
the statements by witnesses I believe were wrong. Are you now going to dismiss Connally's statement which can
be verified by what we see him do in the Z-film?
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 5:31:09?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
On Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 6:04:51?PM UTC-5, JE Corbett wrote:
< a big long autobiography that no one cares about >
You say Z frame 226 shows Kennedy and Connally reacting to having been hit by the same bullet and that shot was the second shot.
You claim that the first shot was the one that missed.
At what Z frame was the first shot fired ?
If the Z-film had sound, we would be able to discern that for certain.
Since it didn't, the best we can do is make educated
guesses as to when the missed shot was fired. Based on the camera jiggle and the observable reactions of Connally and
Rosemary Willis, my educated guess is about Z151. Some have guessed earlier. Some have guessed later. What we know
for sure is that all the guesses can't be right.
Now, tell us why it is important to pinpoint when that first shot was fired.
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 5:31:09?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
On Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 6:04:51?PM UTC-5, JE Corbett wrote:I posted that to show how I arrived at my current beliefs.
< a big long autobiography that no one cares about >
Unlike you, when I encounter evidence that conflicts with my
beliefs, I don't assume it is the evidence that is wrong and make excuses as to why the evidence should not be believed.
Instead I modify my beliefs to conform to the evidence.
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 10:46:59?AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 04:18:10 -0800 (PST), JE Corbett
<jecor...@gmail.com> wrote:
It is enough to establish that the shot was fired before the observable reaction by Connally which
began at Z164 when he suddenly turned to look over his right shoulder, a move he described in his testimony and
which is corroborated by the Z-film.
You have a vivid imagination.
He said he made that turn because he heard a loud noise which he immediately >>>recognized as a rifle shot and sounded like it came from over his right shoulder. You just made a big deal about
the statements by witnesses I believe were wrong. Are you now going to dismiss Connally's statement which can
be verified by what we see him do in the Z-film?
His statements, and many other people's statements, CANNOT be found in
the extant Z-film.
And you have already shown that you don't believe Connally.
Don't you know Ben ? Connally knew the shot came from behind and to the right but he didn't know which shot hit him.
Neither did Nellie, who saw both men and said her husband was hit by the second shot.
Everybody's wrong.
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:09:52?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:06:31?AM UTC-5, JE Corbett wrote:
JBC was mostly right except for his belief that JFK was hit by the first shot. But that's something he was told by others. He couldn't have witnessed that for himself.Really ? This is the first I'm hearing of this.
John Connally was told by other people that JFK was hit by the first shot ? >>
Source ?
It's called process of elimination.
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 10:52:42?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 10:46:59?AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 04:18:10 -0800 (PST), JE CorbettDon't you know Ben ? Connally knew the shot came from behind and to the right but he didn't know which shot hit him.
<jecor...@gmail.com> wrote:
It is enough to establish that the shot was fired before the observable reaction by Connally which
began at Z164 when he suddenly turned to look over his right shoulder, a move he described in his testimony and
which is corroborated by the Z-film.
You have a vivid imagination.
He said he made that turn because he heard a loud noise which he immediatelyHis statements, and many other people's statements, CANNOT be found in
recognized as a rifle shot and sounded like it came from over his right shoulder. You just made a big deal about
the statements by witnesses I believe were wrong. Are you now going to dismiss Connally's statement which can
be verified by what we see him do in the Z-film?
the extant Z-film.
And you have already shown that you don't believe Connally.
Yes, he did. He knew the second shot hit him. He was right about that. What he didn't know is the second shot had also hit
JFK. How could he have known that when by his own testimony, he didn't see the President when he looked over his shoulder.
Neither did Nellie, who saw both men and said her husband was hit by the second shot.
She also said he clutched his throat. That didn't happen. Not the most reliable witness to determine the facts.
Everybody's wrong.
Not everybody.
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:30:48?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:22:26?AM UTC-5, JE Corbett wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:09:52?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:Earth to Corbett: process of elimination is not evidence.
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:06:31?AM UTC-5, JE Corbett wrote: >>>>> JBC was mostly right except for his belief that JFK was hit by the first shot. But that's something he was told by others. He couldn't have witnessed that for himself.It's called process of elimination. It requires the ability to reason which is a process you have rejected. There are only two
Really ? This is the first I'm hearing of this.
John Connally was told by other people that JFK was hit by the first shot ?
Source ?
ways Connally could have known which shot hit JFK. Either he saw it for himself or somebody told him. Since he told us
he hadn't seen it for himself, that kind of narrows it down.
It is the correct way to look at evidence.
I knew you were full of shit.
You think so...
Connally was a hunter who knew that a rifle bullet travelled faster than the speed of sound.
He knew that he would have been hit before he heard the shot.
He knew that if he had heard the shot and he wasn't hit, then that shot didn't hit him.
THAT'S how he knew.
Explain...
Nobody told him.
Another one of your lies.
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 12:53:34?PM UTC-5, JE Corbett wrote:
You still have no explanation for how Connally could have known which shot hit him.
I worded this badly. I intended to say Gil has no explanation ...
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:57:21?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:45:31?AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 08:22:23 -0800 (PST), JE CorbettIn my neighborhood it's called bullshit.
<jecor...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:09:52?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote: >>>>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:06:31?AM UTC-5, JE Corbett wrote: >>>>>> JBC was mostly right except for his belief that JFK was hit by the first shot. But that's something he was told by others. He couldn't have witnessed that for himself.It's called speculation.
Really ? This is the first I'm hearing of this.
John Connally was told by other people that JFK was hit by the first shot ?
Source ?
It's called process of elimination.
Here's Connally explaining why he KNEW the first shot hadn't hit him.
https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/connally-wasnt-hit-by-first-shot.mp4
Here's Connally saying the first shot hit JFK.
https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/connally-nightline-sbt.mp4
Now all that's missing ..
Here's Hoover telling LBJ that the first shot hit Kennedy and the second hit Connally.
https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/hoover-to-lbj-3-shots-3-hits.mp4
Hoover was wrong...
Forget all this evidence from the witness who was present and the FBI Director.You still have no explanation ...
It's all trumped by John Corbett's "applying reasoning to available evidence to draw logical conclusions."
That's Gil's SOP when confronted with arguments or questions for which he has no answer, which is pretty much most
arguments and questions.
On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:15:50?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:JFK had been hit by the "first" shot. And we can see that Connally was hit shortly thereafter.
On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 12:30:28?AM UTC-5, NoTrueFlags Here wrote: >> > Here Hank relies upon the witness, and witnesses are notoriously unreliable. We can see in the Zapruder film that Connally looks directly at JFK after he has been shot in the throat. Obviously, Connally did look at JFK and that's why he knew that
Hank is full of shit as usual.
Connally looks back at JFK after he's been shot.
Z-frame 278:
https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Z278-connally-looking-at-JFK.png
Connally knew Kennedy had been shot. He looked right at him.
That's right, Gil. Connally turned around far enough to see JFK after they had BOTH been shot.
You continue to dance around...
Straw man argument.
On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:10:12?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 10:44:50?PM UTC-5, Hank Sienzant wrote: >>> What Corbett said, and you’re ignoring, is this:
Who told Connally JFK was hit, Hank ?
“JBC was mostly right except for his belief that JFK was hit by the first shot. But that's something he was told by others. He couldn't have witnessed that for himself.”
You’re leaving JFK out of the rebuttal entirely, but that’s who Corbett was talking about: How Connally came to believe when JFK was hit.
You don’t talk to his point whatsoever.
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 10:44:50?PM UTC-5, Hank Sienzant wrote:
What Corbett said, and you’re ignoring, is this:
“JBC was mostly right except for his belief that JFK was hit by the first shot. But that's something he was told by others. He couldn't have witnessed that for himself.”
You’re leaving JFK out of the rebuttal entirely, but that’s who Corbett was talking about: How Connally came to believe when JFK was hit.
You don’t talk to his point whatsoever.
Who told Connally JFK was hit, Hank ?
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 11:14:23?PM UTC-5, Hank Sienzant wrote:
The FBI director and the witness are both sources of hearsay. You like hearsay, apparently, because you sure rely on it a lot.
So did the Warren Commission. What's your point ?
Ben to insist critics follow the evidence.
I wonder if Connally knew the rate of fire for most automatic weapons is 600 rounds per minute and up.
It is difficult to say with certainty what Connally saw...
Asked and answered...
Show me where the Commission relied on hearsay...
On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 6:42:27?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:11:25?PM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
When you start with ad hominem we know it won't go well for you -Corbett's highjacking of Von Pein's theory of a first shot miss at or before Z-164 is ridiculous.
Huckster Sienzant.
It is neither my theory nor DVP's. The WC presented this theory in their original report.
I'll bet Von Pein got that from Posner, although he doesn't give him credit.
Posner didn't create the theory either.
Posner got it from some college student and put it in his book and never gave him credit either.
Here's where...
These Lone Nutters all steal info from each other and never give their sources credit.
We take into account all available information and weigh it for credibility.
Even here, these idiots don't give it a second thought to copy and paste someone else's work without giving the author credit.
I just cited the WCR...
The trajectory of a missed shot at or prior to Z-164 is incompatable with the bullet strike on the south curb of Main St that nicked Jim Tague.
https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/trajectory-of-missed-shot-at-Z-164.jpg
You assume ...
Now prove me wrong, assholes.
It's your burden...
My own guesstimate is the first shot was fired about Z151 with head shot fired at Z311. That's 160 frames which works out
to 8.7 seconds. I believe it was Max Holland who theorized the first shot was fired before Zapruder resumed filming. That
works out to in excess of 178 frames. I'm going on memory but I think he put the time of the first shot at a theoretical Z305,
206 frames before the headshot was fired. That works out to 11.2 seconds. Since nobody was running a stopwatch when
the shooting began, we are left with educated guesses as to how long the shooting took.
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