• Is Hank Sienzant Historically Stupid For Arguing With Gil About Oswald

    From NoTrueFlags Here@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 21 23:24:04 2023
    What else can he do? He certainly cannot defend the Official Story. Plus, he has no burden to do that. His burden only is to argue about stupid stuff that doesn't matter, or even mean anything. Yes, Hank is Historically Stupid for spending the last few
    years of his life arguing about meaningless stupid stuff. Meanwhile, as Hank's wife said, JFK is still dead. Great job, Hank!

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  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to NoTrueFlags Here on Wed Nov 22 02:19:09 2023
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 2:24:06 AM UTC-5, NoTrueFlags Here wrote:
    What else can he do? He certainly cannot defend the Official Story. Plus, he has no burden to do that. His burden only is to argue about stupid stuff that doesn't matter, or even mean anything. Yes, Hank is Historically Stupid for spending the last few
    years of his life arguing about meaningless stupid stuff. Meanwhile, as Hank's wife said, JFK is still dead. Great job, Hank!

    Yes. There is is no such thing as "historically guilty."
    Because there are no different "types" of guilty.

    No one gets convicted of being "historically guilty", "catagorically guilty", "undoubtedly guilty", "partially guilty" or any other word you want to put in front of "guilty".
    There's only "guilty".

    There are only types of "not guilty", like "not guilty by reason of insanity" or mental illness or mental defect.
    But there are no different "types" of guilty.

    I asked Chuckles to post the link defining the phrase, "historically guilty" and he could not.
    He could not because "historically guilty" is a phrase he invented to label Oswald guilty without being convicted.
    It's nonsense coming from a pompous ass who speaks nothing but foolishness.
    I'm not surprised that there are other pompous asses who support him.

    History cannot determine a person's guilt or innocence.
    It can present a case, it can present evidence, it can even express an OPINION, but it cannot CONVICT.
    Not in America, only a judge or a jury can do that.

    And their argument that because Hitler was never convicted, then he never was responsible of the murder of 6 million Jews during WW II is stupid.
    Hitler's role in the Holocaust was revealed during the Nuremberg war TRIALS by witnesses who received orders directly from him.

    These assholes seem to think my argument for Oswald's innocence is based on the fact that he never went to trial.
    No, my argument is based on:

    1. The FACT that the Dallas Police were corrupt.
    2. The FACT that Hoover hated JFK and covered up his assassination.
    3. The way the authorities handled Oswald.
    4. The way the authorities handled the evidence.
    5. The way the authorities handled the witnesses.

    When you look at how the authorities handled this case, you can see that they weren't handling the case of a suspect who was guilty,
    but instead were handling it as if they were trying to frame Oswald for a crime he did not commit.

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  • From NoTrueFlags Here@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Wed Nov 22 02:55:55 2023
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 5:19:10 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 2:24:06 AM UTC-5, NoTrueFlags Here wrote:
    What else can he do? He certainly cannot defend the Official Story. Plus, he has no burden to do that. His burden only is to argue about stupid stuff that doesn't matter, or even mean anything. Yes, Hank is Historically Stupid for spending the last
    few years of his life arguing about meaningless stupid stuff. Meanwhile, as Hank's wife said, JFK is still dead. Great job, Hank!
    Yes. There is is no such thing as "historically guilty."
    Because there are no different "types" of guilty.

    No one gets convicted of being "historically guilty", "catagorically guilty", "undoubtedly guilty", "partially guilty" or any other word you want to put in front of "guilty".
    There's only "guilty".

    There are only types of "not guilty", like "not guilty by reason of insanity" or mental illness or mental defect.
    But there are no different "types" of guilty.

    I asked Chuckles to post the link defining the phrase, "historically guilty" and he could not.
    He could not because "historically guilty" is a phrase he invented to label Oswald guilty without being convicted.
    It's nonsense coming from a pompous ass who speaks nothing but foolishness. I'm not surprised that there are other pompous asses who support him.

    History cannot determine a person's guilt or innocence.
    It can present a case, it can present evidence, it can even express an OPINION, but it cannot CONVICT.
    Not in America, only a judge or a jury can do that.

    And their argument that because Hitler was never convicted, then he never was responsible of the murder of 6 million Jews during WW II is stupid.
    Hitler's role in the Holocaust was revealed during the Nuremberg war TRIALS by witnesses who received orders directly from him.

    These assholes seem to think my argument for Oswald's innocence is based on the fact that he never went to trial.
    No, my argument is based on:

    1. The FACT that the Dallas Police were corrupt.
    2. The FACT that Hoover hated JFK and covered up his assassination.
    3. The way the authorities handled Oswald.
    4. The way the authorities handled the evidence.
    5. The way the authorities handled the witnesses.

    When you look at how the authorities handled this case, you can see that they weren't handling the case of a suspect who was guilty,
    but instead were handling it as if they were trying to frame Oswald for a crime he did not commit.
    Well, of course! But if we are to be kind to the Retards, we can agree with them that historical consensus does develop around such issues, as around Oswald's guilt. But how does one define that consensus? Are the people, the citizens, involved at all in
    such a consensus? Or is it just professional money-making historians, the ones who are handsomely paid by the ruling class? Since the Retards have put forth the argument, the burden is upon them to provide the definition. The poor dears seem to be in
    over their heads here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to NoTrueFlags Here on Wed Nov 22 04:13:07 2023
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 5:55:57 AM UTC-5, NoTrueFlags Here wrote:
    Well, of course! But if we are to be kind to the Retards, we can agree with them that historical consensus does develop around such issues, as around Oswald's guilt. But how does one define that consensus? Are the people, the citizens, involved at all
    in such a consensus? Or is it just professional money-making historians, the ones who are handsomely paid by the ruling class? Since the Retards have put forth the argument, the burden is upon them to provide the definition. The poor dears seem to be in
    over their heads here.

    I agree.
    The credibility of a criminal case is directly connected to the credibility of the authorities making that case.

    Forget that we're talking about Oswald for a minute.

    Take a criminal case where:

    The police were corrupt
    Police continued to question the suspect after he had "lawyered up".
    The police lied during their testimony under oath ( perjury )
    There were no chain of custody forms made out for the evidence at the time of discovery
    There was no documentation proving the suspect was advised of his rights and waived those rights.
    Several items currently in evidence were not photographed as found
    The suspect was not allowed a phone call until 1:40 pm the following day
    The suspect's family was denied access to him until the next day
    Legal assistance ( ACLU ) was dissuaded by police from talking to the suspect The police lineups were unfair
    The DA was corrupt and only cared about convicting the person arrested
    The handling of the evidence by police allowed for the opportunity for tampering
    The witnesses could not identify the items in evidence as the evidence they found
    The witnesses were threatened and harassed
    Key witnesses were ignored
    FBI reports lied about what the witnesses said

    Who TF in their right mind could accept THAT case as an air-tight case of a suspect's guilt ?
    REALLY

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From JE Corbett@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Wed Nov 22 04:13:52 2023
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 5:19:10 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 2:24:06 AM UTC-5, NoTrueFlags Here wrote:
    What else can he do? He certainly cannot defend the Official Story. Plus, he has no burden to do that. His burden only is to argue about stupid stuff that doesn't matter, or even mean anything. Yes, Hank is Historically Stupid for spending the last
    few years of his life arguing about meaningless stupid stuff. Meanwhile, as Hank's wife said, JFK is still dead. Great job, Hank!
    Yes. There is is no such thing as "historically guilty."
    Because there are no different "types" of guilty.

    No one gets convicted of being "historically guilty", "catagorically guilty", "undoubtedly guilty", "partially guilty" or any other word you want to put in front of "guilty".
    There's only "guilty".

    Yet Gil continues to try to historically acquit Oswald.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Wed Nov 22 20:37:58 2023
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 4:19:10 AM UTC-6, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 2:24:06 AM UTC-5, NoTrueFlags Here wrote:
    What else can he do? He certainly cannot defend the Official Story. Plus, he has no burden to do that. His burden only is to argue about stupid stuff that doesn't matter, or even mean anything. Yes, Hank is Historically Stupid for spending the last
    few years of his life arguing about meaningless stupid stuff. Meanwhile, as Hank's wife said, JFK is still dead. Great job, Hank!


    Yes. There is is no such thing as "historically guilty."

    Sure there is. Oswald is historically guilty of killing JFK. Even the always entertaining Toilet/Flags thinks Oswald is historically guilty of at least SHOOTING at JFK's motorcade, so he's one level less stupid than you. Granted, it's a low bar, but
    Toilet clears it.

    Because there are no different "types" of guilty.

    Wrong per usual. Civil cases have a much lower standard of guilt. The plaintiff only needs to prove the defendant acted negligently with a fifty-one percent degree of certainty. Ask OJ Simpson, Johnny Cochrane Jesus.

    No one gets convicted of being "historically guilty", "catagorically guilty", "undoubtedly guilty", "partially guilty" or any other word you want to put in front of "guilty".
    There's only "guilty".

    There are only types of "not guilty", like "not guilty by reason of insanity" or mental illness or mental defect.
    But there are no different "types" of guilty.

    I asked Chuckles to post the link defining the phrase, "historically guilty" and he could not.

    You made up the phrase "historically guilty," not me, and then demanded I provide a definition for two words you insisted needed to be rolled into a conjoined term. I pointed out your logical fallacy was called Argumentum ad Dictionarium.

    He could not because "historically guilty" is a phrase he invented to label Oswald guilty without being convicted.

    You made up the term, moron. I was simply using two words with economy to describe the idea that history--broadly--has settled on the conclusion that your hero Oswald killed two people on 11/22/63. There is no other idea on the table to compare the
    Oswald Alone narrative to. Hell, you don't even know (or care) what happened that day.

    It's nonsense coming from a pompous ass who speaks nothing but foolishness. I'm not surprised that there are other pompous asses who support him.

    History cannot determine a person's guilt or innocence.

    Our official US history as gathered, collated, displayed, etc. by the National Archives disagrees. John F Kennedy's library disagrees.



    It can present a case, it can present evidence, it can even express an OPINION, but it cannot CONVICT.
    Not in America, only a judge or a jury can do that.

    The stupid runs deep with you. Oswald isn't CRIMINALLY GUILTY, Johnny Cochrane. He is HISTORICALLY GUILTY.

    And their argument that because Hitler was never convicted, then he never was responsible of the murder of 6 million Jews during WW II is stupid.
    Hitler's role in the Holocaust was revealed during the Nuremberg war TRIALS by witnesses who received orders directly from him.

    These assholes seem to think my argument for Oswald's innocence is based on the fact that he never went to trial.
    No, my argument is based on:

    1. The FACT that the Dallas Police were corrupt.

    On 11/22/63?

    2. The FACT that Hoover hated JFK and covered up his assassination.

    Begging the question.

    3. The way the authorities handled Oswald.

    By not just blowing him away in the Texas Theatre when he pulled on a cop? By reading him his rights?

    4. The way the authorities handled the evidence.

    Not up to your standards, eh Johnny Cochrane?

    5. The way the authorities handled the witnesses.

    Which ones?

    When you look at how the authorities handled this case, you can see that they weren't handling the case of a suspect who was guilty,
    but instead were handling it as if they were trying to frame Oswald for a crime he did not commit.

    Totally innocent that day? Toilet thinks he fired at the motorcade from the grassy knoll.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Wed Nov 22 21:02:51 2023
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 7:13:09 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 5:55:57 AM UTC-5, NoTrueFlags Here wrote:
    Well, of course! But if we are to be kind to the Retards, we can agree with them that historical consensus does develop around such issues, as around Oswald's guilt. But how does one define that consensus? Are the people, the citizens, involved at
    all in such a consensus? Or is it just professional money-making historians, the ones who are handsomely paid by the ruling class? Since the Retards have put forth the argument, the burden is upon them to provide the definition. The poor dears seem to be
    in over their heads here.
    I agree.
    The credibility of a criminal case is directly connected to the credibility of the authorities making that case.

    Forget that we're talking about Oswald for a minute.

    Take a criminal case where:

    The police were corrupt
    Police continued to question the suspect after he had "lawyered up".
    The police lied during their testimony under oath ( perjury )
    There were no chain of custody forms made out for the evidence at the time of discovery
    There was no documentation proving the suspect was advised of his rights and waived those rights.
    Several items currently in evidence were not photographed as found
    The suspect was not allowed a phone call until 1:40 pm the following day
    The suspect's family was denied access to him until the next day
    Legal assistance ( ACLU ) was dissuaded by police from talking to the suspect
    The police lineups were unfair
    The DA was corrupt and only cared about convicting the person arrested
    The handling of the evidence by police allowed for the opportunity for tampering
    The witnesses could not identify the items in evidence as the evidence they found
    The witnesses were threatened and harassed
    Key witnesses were ignored
    FBI reports lied about what the witnesses said

    Who TF in their right mind could accept THAT case as an air-tight case of a suspect's guilt ?
    REALLY

    Nobody.

    Now establish all the above applies to Oswald in the JFK assassination.

    Go ahead, we’ll wait.

    But I won’t hold my breath.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Wed Nov 22 21:11:09 2023
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 7:13:09 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 5:55:57 AM UTC-5, NoTrueFlags Here wrote:
    Well, of course! But if we are to be kind to the Retards, we can agree with them that historical consensus does develop around such issues, as around Oswald's guilt. But how does one define that consensus? Are the people, the citizens, involved at
    all in such a consensus? Or is it just professional money-making historians, the ones who are handsomely paid by the ruling class? Since the Retards have put forth the argument, the burden is upon them to provide the definition. The poor dears seem to be
    in over their heads here.
    I agree.
    The credibility of a criminal case is directly connected to the credibility of the authorities making that case.

    Forget that we're talking about Oswald for a minute.

    Take a criminal case where:

    The police were corrupt
    Police continued to question the suspect after he had "lawyered up".
    The police lied during their testimony under oath ( perjury )
    There were no chain of custody forms made out for the evidence at the time of discovery
    There was no documentation proving the suspect was advised of his rights and waived those rights.

    There is Johnston’s notes and his testimony. We already established this claim by you doesn’t apply to Oswald as recently as today

    I established that here: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/_V0xpyMjewQ/m/39xGLFLmAAAJ

    So more stuff you simply don’t understand.


    Several items currently in evidence were not photographed as found
    The suspect was not allowed a phone call until 1:40 pm the following day
    The suspect's family was denied access to him until the next day
    Legal assistance ( ACLU ) was dissuaded by police from talking to the suspect
    The police lineups were unfair
    The DA was corrupt and only cared about convicting the person arrested
    The handling of the evidence by police allowed for the opportunity for tampering
    The witnesses could not identify the items in evidence as the evidence they found
    The witnesses were threatened and harassed
    Key witnesses were ignored
    FBI reports lied about what the witnesses said

    Who TF in their right mind could accept THAT case as an air-tight case of a suspect's guilt ?
    REALLY

    When are you going to attempt to establish your Gish Gallop begged question list above?

    You haven’t shown any of the above applies to the case under discussion.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to gjjmail1202@gmail.com on Mon Nov 27 08:13:47 2023
    On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 02:19:09 -0800 (PST), Gil Jesus
    <gjjmail1202@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 2:24:06?AM UTC-5, NoTrueFlags Here wrote: >> What else can he do? He certainly cannot defend the Official Story. Plus, he has no burden to do that. His burden only is to argue about stupid stuff that doesn't matter, or even mean anything. Yes, Hank is Historically Stupid for spending the last
    few years of his life arguing about meaningless stupid stuff. Meanwhile, as Hank's wife said, JFK is still dead. Great job, Hank!

    Yes. There is is no such thing as "historically guilty."
    Because there are no different "types" of guilty.

    No one gets convicted of being "historically guilty", "catagorically guilty", "undoubtedly guilty", "partially guilty" or any other word you want to put in front of "guilty".
    There's only "guilty".

    There are only types of "not guilty", like "not guilty by reason of insanity" or mental illness or mental defect.
    But there are no different "types" of guilty.

    I asked Chuckles to post the link defining the phrase, "historically guilty" and he could not.
    He could not because "historically guilty" is a phrase he invented to label Oswald guilty without being convicted.
    It's nonsense coming from a pompous ass who speaks nothing but foolishness. >I'm not surprised that there are other pompous asses who support him.

    History cannot determine a person's guilt or innocence.
    It can present a case, it can present evidence, it can even express an OPINION, but it cannot CONVICT.
    Not in America, only a judge or a jury can do that.

    And their argument that because Hitler was never convicted, then he never was responsible of the murder of 6 million Jews during WW II is stupid.
    Hitler's role in the Holocaust was revealed during the Nuremberg war TRIALS by witnesses who received orders directly from him.

    These assholes seem to think my argument for Oswald's innocence is based on the fact that he never went to trial.
    No, my argument is based on:

    1. The FACT that the Dallas Police were corrupt.
    2. The FACT that Hoover hated JFK and covered up his assassination.
    3. The way the authorities handled Oswald.
    4. The way the authorities handled the evidence.
    5. The way the authorities handled the witnesses.

    When you look at how the authorities handled this case, you can see that they weren't handling the case of a suspect who was guilty,
    but instead were handling it as if they were trying to frame Oswald for a crime he did not commit.


    I could not have said it better... thanks Gil...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to jecorbett4@gmail.com on Mon Nov 27 08:22:23 2023
    On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 04:13:52 -0800 (PST), JE Corbett
    <jecorbett4@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 5:19:10?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 2:24:06?AM UTC-5, NoTrueFlags Here wrote: >>> What else can he do? He certainly cannot defend the Official Story. Plus, he has no burden to do that. His burden only is to argue about stupid stuff that doesn't matter, or even mean anything. Yes, Hank is Historically Stupid for spending the last
    few years of his life arguing about meaningless stupid stuff. Meanwhile, as Hank's wife said, JFK is still dead. Great job, Hank!
    Yes. There is is no such thing as "historically guilty."
    Because there are no different "types" of guilty.

    No one gets convicted of being "historically guilty", "catagorically guilty", "undoubtedly guilty", "partially guilty" or any other word you want to put in front of "guilty".
    There's only "guilty".

    Yet Gil continues to try to historically acquit Oswald.


    This is, of course, simply a blatant lie. Why do you think you can
    convince anyone with lies?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 29 10:21:48 2023
    On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 21:11:09 -0800 (PST), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

    You've claimed that the "A.B.C.D." in the Autopsy Report is the
    description of the *location* of the large head wound.

    Yet you refuse time and time again from QUOTING the preceding
    paragraph that describes what this ACTUALLY is. Why is that?

    You've also claimed that the prosectors dissected the throat wound.

    Why do you continue to refuse to cite any evidence for this?

    Why have you CONSISTENTLY run away each time I raise this issue?

    Now you've quite stupidly insisted that the bullet entered JFK's back,
    and exited the back of his head.

    More cowardice, more stupidity, more dishonesty.

    Are you proud of yourself?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to chuckschuyler123@gmail.com on Thu Nov 30 13:41:18 2023
    On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 20:37:58 -0800 (PST), Chuck Schuyler <chuckschuyler123@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 4:19:10?AM UTC-6, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 2:24:06?AM UTC-5, NoTrueFlags Here wrote: >>> What else can he do? He certainly cannot defend the Official Story. Plus, he has no burden to do that. His burden only is to argue about stupid stuff that doesn't matter, or even mean anything. Yes, Hank is Historically Stupid for spending the last
    few years of his life arguing about meaningless stupid stuff. Meanwhile, as Hank's wife said, JFK is still dead. Great job, Hank!


    Yes. There is is no such thing as "historically guilty."

    Sure there is.

    Then explain why you can't cite for this wacky claim of yours.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 4 16:28:30 2023
    On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 21:02:51 -0800 (PST), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

    You've claimed that the "A.B.C.D." in the Autopsy Report is the
    description of the *location* of the large head wound.

    Yet you refuse time and time again from QUOTING the preceding
    paragraph that describes what this ACTUALLY is. Why is that?

    You've also claimed that the prosectors dissected the throat wound.

    Why do you continue to refuse to cite any evidence for this?

    Why have you CONSISTENTLY run away each time I raise this issue?

    Now you've quite stupidly insisted that the bullet entered JFK's back,
    and exited the back of his head.

    More cowardice, more stupidity, more dishonesty.

    Are you proud of yourself?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)