• Questions for Gil about his questions

    From John Corbett@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 1 15:03:21 2023
    Do you think there is or should be a USPS record of the employee who handed Oswald the rifle when he picked it up?

    Do you think there is or should be a record of the REA employee who handed Oswald the revolver when he came to pick it up?

    If you answer yes to either question, where do you suppose such records
    should be stored?

    Why do you think it matters who handed Oswald the mail order weapons
    when he came to pick them up?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to John Corbett on Wed Nov 1 20:17:29 2023
    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 5:03:23 PM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote:
    Do you think there is or should be a USPS record of the employee who handed Oswald the rifle when he picked it up?

    Do you think there is or should be a record of the REA employee who handed Oswald the revolver when he came to pick it up?

    If you answer yes to either question, where do you suppose such records should be stored?

    Why do you think it matters who handed Oswald the mail order weapons
    when he came to pick them up?

    Fish Part Messiah isn't going to answer this, or at least answer it in any substantive way. Fish Part is once again guilty of something called presentism, which is the idea that the standards and practices of the past can be judged retrospectively on the
    standards and practices of today. It's possible that in today's world, there might be records for some of the questions Fish Part brings up, irrelevant as his concerns are, but not in 1963 America.

    Fish Part "Johnny Cochrane" Messiah is simply fantasizing jury summation lines from the non-existent trial Fish Part imagines he would be representing his hero Lee Oswald at. "And so ladies and gentlemen of the jury, if you can't show who handed Lee
    Oswald his shit, you must acquit!"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to Chuck Schuyler on Thu Nov 2 03:04:29 2023
    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 11:17:31 PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    Fish Part Messiah isn't going to answer this, or at least answer it in any substantive way. Fish Part is once again guilty of something called presentism, which is the idea that the standards and practices of the past can be judged retrospectively on
    the standards and practices of today. It's possible that in today's world, there might be records for some of the questions Fish Part brings up, irrelevant as his concerns are, but not in 1963 America.

    No, just like you, I'm sure there weren't any such things in 1963 as work schedules or records of assignments, like we have today.
    No, like you, I'm sure there were no records at the USPS or REA Express on who worked their counters that week between 3/20 and 3/27, like we have today.
    No, like you, I'm sure the same FBI that was willing to fingerprint every employee in the TSBD, didn't have the time to interview the employees of the USPS or REA, like they would today.

    When you're talking a chain of custody, it's important to know who had custody of the weapons.
    The tracking of the weapons must have been done by you, because it was done half-assed.

    And no employee of either establishment ever came forward to identify himself as the one who gave Oswald the weapons.
    Even after Oswald became world famous, and his face was plastered in every newspaper and all over every TV set in the world, you mean to say no one recognized him ?
    No one remembered his box # 2915 ?
    No one remembered him coming to the counter with a notice ?
    No one remembered a 40" package ?

    No one at REA Express remembered handing him a package that was noted as, "1 crtn pistol" ?

    Why wasn't anyone from REA Express ever called to give testimony, Chuckles ? Why was all the REA documentation autheticated by Heinz Michaelis, the manager at Seaport Traders,
    who wasn't even employed by them when the transaction occurred ?

    Why didn't the FBI interview the employees at the USPS branch where Box 2915 was located ?
    They interviewed all kinds of people who had no knowledge of the crime.
    They interviewed a woman who knew a woman who babysat Oswald when he was 2 1/2 years old.
    They interviewed Dean Rusk.
    They accepted as an exhibit the bite pattern of Jack Ruby's mother.

    They took 18 pages of testimony from the emcee at Jack Ruby's club.
    But the guy who brought two rifles into the building that the President was allegedly shot from only got two pages of testimony ?

    What do all these deficiencies have to do with standards between 1963 and today ? These weren't prehistoric times, this was 1963.
    Why did they waste their time and manpower on shit that had NOTHING to do with this crime, while at the same time neglecting to pursue leads and tie up loose ends ?
    Enlighten us, Chuckles.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Thu Nov 2 04:52:46 2023
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 6:04:31 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 11:17:31 PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    Fish Part Messiah isn't going to answer this, or at least answer it in any substantive way. Fish Part is once again guilty of something called presentism, which is the idea that the standards and practices of the past can be judged retrospectively on
    the standards and practices of today. It's possible that in today's world, there might be records for some of the questions Fish Part brings up, irrelevant as his concerns are, but not in 1963 America.
    No, just like you, I'm sure there weren't any such things in 1963 as work schedules or records of assignments, like we have today.
    No, like you, I'm sure there were no records at the USPS or REA Express on who worked their counters that week between 3/20 and 3/27, like we have today.

    Your question wasn't who was working at the Post Office or the REA on the day Oswald picked
    up his mail order weapons. Your question was who handed it to him when he came to pick them
    up. My question to you was what records would you expect there to be that would answer that
    question. So far, you have yet to answer. I'll give you another 24 hours before I grade you using
    your standards.

    No, like you, I'm sure the same FBI that was willing to fingerprint every employee in the TSBD, didn't have the time to interview the employees of the USPS or REA, like they would today.

    Why would they bother? What difference did it make who handed the packages to Oswald?
    They had a record of the weapons shipped to Oswald with serial number. They had photos
    of Oswald with the weapons. The rifle was found in the TSBD with Oswald's palm print on
    the barrel and fibers matching his shirt on the butt plate. Oswald had the revolver in his
    possession when arrested. Oswald having taken possession of these weapons from the
    USPS and REA is firmly established. I realize that requires you to connect the dots, all three
    of them, and that requires a bit of reasoning, which is a skill that is foreign to you, but those
    are the facts and those facts render your silly questions about which employee actually handed
    the weapons to Oswald moot.

    When you're talking a chain of custody, it's important to know who had custody of the weapons.

    The evidence that Oswald had taken possession of the weapons is firmly established by the
    evidence. That is all that is necessary.

    The tracking of the weapons must have been done by you, because it was done half-assed.

    No, Gil, it was very thorough. Using the serial numbers, they traced the weapons to the retailer
    and from the retailer to Oswald. Oswald having taken possession of these weapons is firmly
    established by the evidence I listed above. It doesn't matter which employee of the USPS or
    the REA handed Oswald his weapons when he came to pick them up. That's not something
    that would be required in any other murder case and it is ludicrous for you to demand such
    proof in this one. This is just another one of the silly games you are playing to try to invalidate
    the evidence that proves without a doubt that Oswald was the assassin.

    And no employee of either establishment ever came forward to identify himself as the one who gave Oswald the weapons.

    Why would you expect them to? Why would you expect them to remember handing a package
    to Oswald six months earlier?

    Even after Oswald became world famous, and his face was plastered in every newspaper and all over every TV set in the world, you mean to say no one recognized him ?

    Do you think employees who serve members of the public remember every face they come in
    contact with over the course of many months? My first job was working at McDonald's while I
    was in high school. I came to recognize a few of the regulars and even once served a local
    TV news anchor. Other than that, the rest of them were nameless, faceless people who I
    would never remember having served. For all I know, I might have served Sirhan Siirhan or
    James Earl Ray.

    No one remembered his box # 2915 ?

    And you expect that they would.

    No one remembered him coming to the counter with a notice ?

    And you expect that they would.

    No one remembered a 40" package ?

    And you expect that they would.

    No one at REA Express remembered handing him a package that was noted as, "1 crtn pistol"?

    And you expect that they would.

    At the time these packages were picked up, what would have been so special about them that
    you would think someone would remember them?

    Why wasn't anyone from REA Express ever called to give testimony, Chuckles ?

    What would they be expected to testify to?

    Why was all the REA documentation autheticated by Heinz Michaelis, the manager at Seaport Traders,
    who wasn't even employed by them when the transaction occurred ?

    Why do ask so many silly, irrelevant questions?

    Why didn't the FBI interview the employees at the USPS branch where Box 2915 was located ?

    What could they be expected to know that would add to the body of knowledge?

    They interviewed all kinds of people who had no knowledge of the crime.
    They interviewed a woman who knew a woman who babysat Oswald when he was 2 1/2 years old.
    They interviewed Dean Rusk.
    They accepted as an exhibit the bite pattern of Jack Ruby's mother.

    Gathering evidence is like panning for gold. You sift through a lot of worthless stuff to find the
    occasional nugget. The WC put all the worthless stuff they gathered into 26 volumes. They
    summarized the nuggets in the 888 page report. Had they not included the worthless stuff in
    the 26 volumes, you would be accusing them of destroying evidence.

    They took 18 pages of testimony from the emcee at Jack Ruby's club.

    Panning for gold.

    But the guy who brought two rifles into the building that the President was allegedly shot from only got two pages of testimony ?

    Tell us why you think there should be more.

    What do all these deficiencies have to do with standards between 1963 and today ? These weren't prehistoric times, this was 1963.

    The deficiencies are imaginary. The investigation was thorough. It gathered overwhelming
    evidence that Oswald was an assassin and a cop killer. Far more evidence than would be
    required in most any other murder case.

    Why did they waste their time and manpower on shit that had NOTHING to do with this crime,

    Panning for gold. You don't know what you'll find until you as.

    while at the same time neglecting to pursue leads and tie up loose ends ?

    The loose ends are in your head. So are a few loose screws.

    Enlighten us, Chuckles.

    First, take off the blindfold.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Thu Nov 2 07:28:10 2023
    On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 15:03:21 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett
    <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    Do you think there is or should be a USPS record of the employee who handed >Oswald the rifle when he picked it up?


    No - but there would be only a few possibilities. None of whom would
    forget delivering a rifle.


    Do you think there is or should be a record of the REA employee who handed >Oswald the revolver when he came to pick it up?


    No. However, this wasn't investigated.


    If you answer yes to either question, where do you suppose such records >should be stored?


    Same place all such records are stored.


    Why do you think it matters who handed Oswald the mail order weapons
    when he came to pick them up?


    Because it would be evidence that supports your theory. But you don't
    have it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to chuckschuyler123@gmail.com on Thu Nov 2 07:28:40 2023
    On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 20:17:29 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler <chuckschuyler123@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 5:03:23?PM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote:
    Do you think there is or should be a USPS record of the employee who handed >> Oswald the rifle when he picked it up?

    Do you think there is or should be a record of the REA employee who handed >> Oswald the revolver when he came to pick it up?

    If you answer yes to either question, where do you suppose such records
    should be stored?

    Why do you think it matters who handed Oswald the mail order weapons
    when he came to pick them up?

    Logical fallacies deleted.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to gjjmail1202@gmail.com on Thu Nov 2 07:30:13 2023
    On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 03:04:29 -0700 (PDT), Gil Jesus
    <gjjmail1202@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 11:17:31?PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    Fish Part Messiah isn't going to answer this, or at least answer it in any substantive way. Fish Part is once again guilty of something called presentism, which is the idea that the standards and practices of the past can be judged retrospectively on
    the standards and practices of today. It's possible that in today's world, there might be records for some of the questions Fish Part brings up, irrelevant as his concerns are, but not in 1963 America.

    No, just like you, I'm sure there weren't any such things in 1963 as work schedules or records of assignments, like we have today.
    No, like you, I'm sure there were no records at the USPS or REA Express on who worked their counters that week between 3/20 and 3/27, like we have today.
    No, like you, I'm sure the same FBI that was willing to fingerprint every employee in the TSBD, didn't have the time to interview the employees of the USPS or REA, like they would today.

    When you're talking a chain of custody, it's important to know who had custody of the weapons.
    The tracking of the weapons must have been done by you, because it was done half-assed.

    And no employee of either establishment ever came forward to identify himself as the one who gave Oswald the weapons.
    Even after Oswald became world famous, and his face was plastered in every newspaper and all over every TV set in the world, you mean to say no one recognized him ?
    No one remembered his box # 2915 ?
    No one remembered him coming to the counter with a notice ?
    No one remembered a 40" package ?

    No one at REA Express remembered handing him a package that was noted as, "1 crtn pistol" ?

    Why wasn't anyone from REA Express ever called to give testimony, Chuckles ? >Why was all the REA documentation autheticated by Heinz Michaelis, the manager at Seaport Traders,
    who wasn't even employed by them when the transaction occurred ?

    Why didn't the FBI interview the employees at the USPS branch where Box 2915 was located ?
    They interviewed all kinds of people who had no knowledge of the crime.
    They interviewed a woman who knew a woman who babysat Oswald when he was 2 1/2 years old.
    They interviewed Dean Rusk.
    They accepted as an exhibit the bite pattern of Jack Ruby's mother.

    They took 18 pages of testimony from the emcee at Jack Ruby's club.
    But the guy who brought two rifles into the building that the President was allegedly shot from only got two pages of testimony ?

    What do all these deficiencies have to do with standards between 1963 and today ? These weren't prehistoric times, this was 1963.
    Why did they waste their time and manpower on shit that had NOTHING to do with this crime, while at the same time neglecting to pursue leads and tie up loose ends ?
    Enlighten us, Chuckles.

    He won't. He can't.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Thu Nov 2 07:45:41 2023
    On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 04:52:46 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett
    <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 6:04:31?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 11:17:31?PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote: >> > Fish Part Messiah isn't going to answer this, or at least answer it in any substantive way. Fish Part is once again guilty of something called presentism, which is the idea that the standards and practices of the past can be judged retrospectively
    on the standards and practices of today. It's possible that in today's world, there might be records for some of the questions Fish Part brings up, irrelevant as his concerns are, but not in 1963 America.
    No, just like you, I'm sure there weren't any such things in 1963 as work schedules or records of assignments, like we have today.
    No, like you, I'm sure there were no records at the USPS or REA Express on who worked their counters that week between 3/20 and 3/27, like we have today.

    Your question...


    Hasn't changed.


    No, like you, I'm sure the same FBI that was willing to fingerprint every employee in the TSBD, didn't have the time to interview the employees of the USPS or REA, like they would today.

    Why would they bother?


    You just HATE the fact that you can't prove Oswald owned a rifle.


    When you're talking a chain of custody, it's important to know who had custody of the weapons.

    The evidence that Oswald had taken possession of the weapons is firmly established by the
    evidence. That is all that is necessary.


    You're lying again.


    The tracking of the weapons must have been done by you, because it was done half-assed.

    No, Gil, it was very thorough.


    Cite it.

    (But you won't...)


    And no employee of either establishment ever came forward to identify himself as the one who gave Oswald the weapons.

    Why would you expect them to? Why would you expect them to remember handing a package
    to Oswald six months earlier?


    Can you document your apparent belief that rifles went through the
    post office so commonly that no-one would remember?


    Even after Oswald became world famous, and his face was plastered in every newspaper and all over every TV set in the world, you mean to say no one recognized him ?

    No one remembered his box # 2915 ?

    No one remembered him coming to the counter with a notice ?

    No one remembered a 40" package ?

    No one at REA Express remembered handing him a package that was noted as, "1 crtn pistol"?

    Why wasn't anyone from REA Express ever called to give testimony, Chuckles ?


    Chuckles couldn't explain...


    Why was all the REA documentation autheticated by Heinz Michaelis, the manager at Seaport Traders,
    who wasn't even employed by them when the transaction occurred ?


    A devastating question that Chuckles needed to run from...


    Why didn't the FBI interview the employees at the USPS branch where Box 2915 was located ?

    What could they be expected to know that would add to the body of knowledge?


    Far more than Anne Boudreaux. Watch folks, as Chuckles runs from
    this...


    They interviewed all kinds of people who had no knowledge of the crime.
    They interviewed a woman who knew a woman who babysat Oswald when he was 2 1/2 years old.

    Anne Boudreaux

    They interviewed Dean Rusk.
    They accepted as an exhibit the bite pattern of Jack Ruby's mother.

    Gathering evidence is like panning for gold. You sift through a lot of worthless stuff to find the
    occasional nugget.


    This statement conflicts with your earlier statements. Proves you a
    liar, doesn't it?


    They took 18 pages of testimony from the emcee at Jack Ruby's club.

    But the guy who brought two rifles into the building that the President was allegedly shot from only got two pages of testimony ?

    What do all these deficiencies have to do with standards between 1963 and today ? These weren't prehistoric times, this was 1963.

    The deficiencies are imaginary. The investigation was thorough. It gathered overwhelming
    evidence that Oswald was an assassin and a cop killer. Far more evidence than would be
    required in most any other murder case.


    Your speculation isn't evidence.


    Why did they waste their time and manpower on shit that had NOTHING to do with this crime,

    while at the same time neglecting to pursue leads and tie up loose ends ?

    Enlighten us, Chuckles.


    He couldn't.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Thu Nov 2 21:07:25 2023
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 5:04:31 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 11:17:31 PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    Fish Part Messiah isn't going to answer this, or at least answer it in any substantive way. Fish Part is once again guilty of something called presentism, which is the idea that the standards and practices of the past can be judged retrospectively on
    the standards and practices of today. It's possible that in today's world, there might be records for some of the questions Fish Part brings up, irrelevant as his concerns are, but not in 1963 America.

    No, just like you, I'm sure there weren't any such things in 1963 as work schedules or records of assignments, like we have today.

    Strawman. The question Bigdog brought up concerned whether or not employees engaged in the day-to-day activities should remember a nobody like Oswald, or whether there should be records pinpointing who handed him packages, etc.

    No, like you, I'm sure there were no records at the USPS or REA Express on who worked their counters that week between 3/20 and 3/27, like we have today.

    We know there were records, but you seem to be claiming employees should remember this particular customer interaction.

    No, like you, I'm sure the same FBI that was willing to fingerprint every employee in the TSBD, didn't have the time to interview the employees of the USPS or REA, like they would today.


    When you're talking a chain of custody, it's important to know who had custody of the weapons.

    Was the rifle, for example, shipped differently to Oswald for this sale as opposed to how other rifles were shipped in 1963?

    The tracking of the weapons must have been done by you, because it was done half-assed.

    Yes, not up to your standards again. Who cares?

    And no employee of either establishment ever came forward to identify himself as the one who gave Oswald the weapons.

    Can you remember the waitress who freshened up your cup of coffee at some diner eight months ago?

    Even after Oswald became world famous, and his face was plastered in every newspaper and all over every TV set in the world, you mean to say no one recognized him ?

    Plenty recognized him, some with false memories seeking attention and notoriety, but few would have reason to remember him PRIOR to 11/22/63 in the ordinary transactions and activities that make up a day's routines.

    No one remembered his box # 2915 ?
    No one remembered him coming to the counter with a notice ?
    No one remembered a 40" package ?

    He was a nobody AT THE TIME. Why would ordinary interactions picking up packages, etc. burn an indelible memory in another ordinary person's mind whose own life is filled with day-to-day ordinary tasks and concerns? Do you remember the clerk who handed
    you back your credit card seven months ago when you bought a can of paint at some store?

    No one at REA Express remembered handing him a package that was noted as, "1 crtn pistol" ?

    The dull day-to-day of the ordinary. Do you remember the face of the guy who checked your ID a year ago when you were boarding an airplane to go somewhere?

    Why wasn't anyone from REA Express ever called to give testimony, Chuckles ?

    For what reason?

    Why was all the REA documentation autheticated by Heinz Michaelis, the manager at Seaport Traders,
    who wasn't even employed by them when the transaction occurred ?

    What has your research turned up?

    Why didn't the FBI interview the employees at the USPS branch where Box 2915 was located ?

    Was it required?

    They interviewed all kinds of people who had no knowledge of the crime.

    Yes, the investigation wasn't carried out to your high standards. We are aware of that.

    They interviewed a woman who knew a woman who babysat Oswald when he was 2 1/2 years old.
    They interviewed Dean Rusk.
    They accepted as an exhibit the bite pattern of Jack Ruby's mother.

    And this is proof of something evil going on, or the collection of perhaps peripheral background information that the report possibly could have done without? Or is it proof of something else? You tell us.

    They took 18 pages of testimony from the emcee at Jack Ruby's club.
    But the guy who brought two rifles into the building that the President was allegedly shot from only got two pages of testimony ?

    Life isn't fair.

    What do all these deficiencies have to do with standards between 1963 and today ? These weren't prehistoric times, this was 1963.

    Yet you expect documentation for things that just wasn't done in 1963. Nowadays, almost everything you purchase is tracked, and digital cameras--that nearly every store or building has--can go back a long way and capture visits to a store, etc. But not
    in 1963.

    Why did they waste their time and manpower on shit that had NOTHING to do with this crime, while at the same time neglecting to pursue leads and tie up loose ends ?
    Enlighten us, Chuckles.

    I'm not troubled by it. There is plenty of meat-on-the-bones in the report and in the investigation, and the exhibits and documents that were collected lead inexorably to the conclusion Oswald killed JFK, wounded JBC, and killed JDT. Why hasn't Team
    Oswald ran firing tests through limousine windshields and other locations with a realistic mock motorcade Dealey Plaza set-up using ballistic test figures to see if any of the crazy stuff you believe happened is even feasible?

    But why don't you answer your own question, El Senor Lazy Bones? It's not like I'm going to give you an answer that satisfies you, correct? Produce an outline of how you would've run the investigation and why. Outline the tests you would've conducted.
    Where possible, run your own tests to back up your hobby points. Share the tests and methodology. Invite your critics to look at your work.

    Or, you know, sit on your ass in your cluttered little home and bitch about the Warren Commission Report.

    Get busy, Lazy Bones.

    LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

    Decades spent sitting on your ass and bitching.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to Chuck Schuyler on Fri Nov 3 02:31:31 2023
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 12:07:26 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:

    Or, you know, sit on your ass in your cluttered little home and bitch about the Warren Commission Report.

    Get busy, Lazy Bones.

    LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

    Decades spent sitting on your ass and bitching.

    Talk about lazy, when was the last time you posted any evidence ?

    Once again, Charles Schuyler posts no evidence.

    No citations
    No documents
    No testimony
    No exhibits
    No witness videos
    No links

    What Charles Schuyler DOES post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults. Charles Schuyler acts like a 10 year old online.
    You can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from his posts.

    That's why we call Charles Schuyler, "Chuckles the Clown".
    Charles Schuyler is a troll.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Fri Nov 3 03:29:28 2023
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 6:04:31 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 11:17:31 PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    Fish Part Messiah isn't going to answer this, or at least answer it in any substantive way. Fish Part is once again guilty of something called presentism, which is the idea that the standards and practices of the past can be judged retrospectively on
    the standards and practices of today. It's possible that in today's world, there might be records for some of the questions Fish Part brings up, irrelevant as his concerns are, but not in 1963 America.
    No, just like you, I'm sure there weren't any such things in 1963 as work schedules or records of assignments, like we have today.
    No, like you, I'm sure there were no records at the USPS or REA Express on who worked their counters that week between 3/20 and 3/27, like we have today.
    No, like you, I'm sure the same FBI that was willing to fingerprint every employee in the TSBD, didn't have the time to interview the employees of the USPS or REA, like they would today.

    When you're talking a chain of custody, it's important to know who had custody of the weapons.

    Only the authorities after the commission of a crime, stupid.

    Do you think the need to track the Carcano Oswald killed Kennedy with back to the soldier who carried it in WWII?

    The tracking of the weapons must have been done by you, because it was done half-assed.

    And no employee of either establishment ever came forward to identify himself as the one who gave Oswald the weapons.
    Even after Oswald became world famous, and his face was plastered in every newspaper and all over every TV set in the world, you mean to say no one recognized him ?
    No one remembered his box # 2915 ?
    No one remembered him coming to the counter with a notice ?
    No one remembered a 40" package ?

    No one at REA Express remembered handing him a package that was noted as, "1 crtn pistol" ?

    Why wasn't anyone from REA Express ever called to give testimony, Chuckles ? Why was all the REA documentation autheticated by Heinz Michaelis, the manager at Seaport Traders,
    who wasn't even employed by them when the transaction occurred ?

    Why didn't the FBI interview the employees at the USPS branch where Box 2915 was located ?
    They interviewed all kinds of people who had no knowledge of the crime.
    They interviewed a woman who knew a woman who babysat Oswald when he was 2 1/2 years old.
    They interviewed Dean Rusk.
    They accepted as an exhibit the bite pattern of Jack Ruby's mother.

    They took 18 pages of testimony from the emcee at Jack Ruby's club.
    But the guy who brought two rifles into the building that the President was allegedly shot from only got two pages of testimony ?

    What do all these deficiencies have to do with standards between 1963 and today ? These weren't prehistoric times, this was 1963.
    Why did they waste their time and manpower on shit that had NOTHING to do with this crime, while at the same time neglecting to pursue leads and tie up loose ends ?
    Enlighten us, Chuckles.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to Bud on Fri Nov 3 04:25:51 2023
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 6:29:30 AM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    Only the authorities after the commission of a crime, stupid.

    Do you think the need to track the Carcano Oswald killed Kennedy with back to the soldier who carried it in WWII?

    You haven't proven Oswald received the rifle, stupid.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to chuckschuyler123@gmail.com on Fri Nov 3 06:10:03 2023
    On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 21:07:25 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler <chuckschuyler123@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 5:04:31?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 11:17:31?PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote: >> > Fish Part Messiah isn't going to answer this, or at least answer it in any substantive way. Fish Part is once again guilty of something called presentism, which is the idea that the standards and practices of the past can be judged retrospectively
    on the standards and practices of today. It's possible that in today's world, there might be records for some of the questions Fish Part brings up, irrelevant as his concerns are, but not in 1963 America.

    No, just like you, I'm sure there weren't any such things in 1963 as work schedules or records of assignments, like we have today.

    Strawman.


    Run coward... RUN!!


    No, like you, I'm sure there were no records at the USPS or REA Express on who worked their counters that week between 3/20 and 3/27, like we have today.

    We know there were records...


    Produce them. Cite for your claim.

    If you don't - we'll be quite certain that you simply lied ... again.


    No, like you, I'm sure the same FBI that was willing to fingerprint every employee in the TSBD, didn't have the time to interview the employees of the USPS or REA, like they would today.


    When you're talking a chain of custody, it's important to know who had custody of the weapons.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    The tracking of the weapons must have been done by you, because it was done half-assed.

    And no employee of either establishment ever came forward to identify himself as the one who gave Oswald the weapons.

    Even after Oswald became world famous, and his face was plastered in every newspaper and all over every TV set in the world, you mean to say no one recognized him ?

    No one remembered his box # 2915 ?
    No one remembered him coming to the counter with a notice ?
    No one remembered a 40" package ?

    No one at REA Express remembered handing him a package that was noted as, "1 crtn pistol" ?

    Why wasn't anyone from REA Express ever called to give testimony, Chuckles ?

    For what reason?


    ROTFLMAO!!! These morons can't admit the SLIGHTEST errror...


    Why was all the REA documentation autheticated by Heinz Michaelis, the manager at Seaport Traders,
    who wasn't even employed by them when the transaction occurred ?

    Why didn't the FBI interview the employees at the USPS branch where Box 2915 was located ?

    They interviewed all kinds of people who had no knowledge of the crime.

    They interviewed a woman who knew a woman who babysat Oswald when he was 2 1/2 years old.
    They interviewed Dean Rusk.
    They accepted as an exhibit the bite pattern of Jack Ruby's mother.

    They took 18 pages of testimony from the emcee at Jack Ruby's club.
    But the guy who brought two rifles into the building that the President was allegedly shot from only got two pages of testimony ?

    Life isn't fair.


    Yep... we have far too many liars and cowards to deal with...


    What do all these deficiencies have to do with standards between 1963 and today ? These weren't prehistoric times, this was 1963.

    Why did they waste their time and manpower on shit that had NOTHING to do with this crime, while at the same time neglecting to pursue leads and tie up loose ends ?
    Enlighten us, Chuckles.

    I'm not troubled by it.


    Of course not... you're not honest.

    End of story.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 3 06:11:12 2023
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 03:29:28 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirslick@fast.net>
    wrote:

    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't
    get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to gjjmail1202@gmail.com on Fri Nov 3 06:10:36 2023
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 02:31:31 -0700 (PDT), Gil Jesus
    <gjjmail1202@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 12:07:26?AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:

    Or, you know, sit on your ass in your cluttered little home and bitch about the Warren Commission Report.

    Get busy, Lazy Bones.

    LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

    Decades spent sitting on your ass and bitching.

    Talk about lazy, when was the last time you posted any evidence ?

    Once again, Charles Schuyler posts no evidence.

    No citations
    No documents
    No testimony
    No exhibits
    No witness videos
    No links

    What Charles Schuyler DOES post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults.
    Charles Schuyler acts like a 10 year old online.
    You can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from his posts.

    That's why we call Charles Schuyler, "Chuckles the Clown".
    Charles Schuyler is a troll.


    A dishonest one...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Fri Nov 3 07:57:16 2023
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 6:25:53 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 6:29:30 AM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    Only the authorities after the commission of a crime, stupid.

    Do you think the need to track the Carcano Oswald killed Kennedy with back to the soldier who carried it in WWII?

    You haven't proven Oswald received the rifle, stupid.

    I'll bet Mrs. Kennedy would've disagreed with that.

    Eyewitnesses, photos of Oswald with the rifle, shipping receipts, ballistic evidence, etc. all prove Oswald received the rifle and fired it, killing JFK and wounding JBC.

    It's called consilience in the evidence. Different types of evidence from different sources converging on an inescapable conclusion that your hero Oswald was the assassin, fanboy.

    That it hasn't been proven to YOUR particular standard is an entirely different matter.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BT George@21:1/5 to Chuck Schuyler on Fri Nov 3 08:31:13 2023
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 9:57:18 AM UTC-5, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 6:25:53 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 6:29:30 AM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    Only the authorities after the commission of a crime, stupid.

    Do you think the need to track the Carcano Oswald killed Kennedy with back to the soldier who carried it in WWII?

    You haven't proven Oswald received the rifle, stupid.
    I'll bet Mrs. Kennedy would've disagreed with that.

    Eyewitnesses, photos of Oswald with the rifle, shipping receipts, ballistic evidence, etc. all prove Oswald received the rifle and fired it, killing JFK and wounding JBC.

    It's called consilience in the evidence. Different types of evidence from different sources converging on an inescapable conclusion that your hero Oswald was the assassin, fanboy.

    That it hasn't been proven to YOUR particular standard is an entirely different matter.

    Something people often miss---simple as it is--- that something can be true quite apart from evidence that satisfies *them*. The problem may be the lack of evidence, or simply their own inability to correctly understand what evidence really is, and what
    it most readily suggests. ...Indeed the evidence question may be wholly inadequate to demonstrate all truth. There may be, in fact, little green men "out there somewhere" even if we don't have any real evidence of them. However, without solid evidence,
    it will be up to the individual how much--if any--stock to put in such a notion.

    What Gil fails to understand, is that in this case it is the *conspiracy* side that has the same available evidence we have of little green men, whereas our side has things such as you cite above and a whole lot more. I suggest that the failure here
    lies in the inability of the CT side to *correctly* parse the available evidence. Because as Bud says they are always "Looking at the wrong things, wrongly!"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Fri Nov 3 09:52:12 2023
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 6:04:31 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 11:17:31 PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    Fish Part Messiah isn't going to answer this, or at least answer it in any substantive way. Fish Part is once again guilty of something called presentism, which is the idea that the standards and practices of the past can be judged retrospectively on
    the standards and practices of today. It's possible that in today's world, there might be records for some of the questions Fish Part brings up, irrelevant as his concerns are, but not in 1963 America.
    No, just like you, I'm sure there weren't any such things in 1963 as work schedules or records of assignments, like we have today.
    No, like you, I'm sure there were no records at the USPS or REA Express on who worked their counters that week between 3/20 and 3/27, like we have today.
    No, like you, I'm sure the same FBI that was willing to fingerprint every employee in the TSBD, didn't have the time to interview the employees of the USPS or REA, like they would today.

    When you're talking a chain of custody, it's important to know who had custody of the weapons.

    Not in the postal service, no. That’s a falsehood by you.

    I urge you to familiarize yourself with the law. And the Federal Rules of Evidence, which you can find here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre

    It appears from here you are appallingly unfamiliar with the Federal Rules of Evidence.

    See ARTICLE IV. RELEVANCE AND ITS LIMITS, in particular 4.06: Habit; Routine Practice
    “Evidence of a person’s habit or an organization’s routine practice may be admitted to prove that on a particular occasion the person or organization acted in accordance with the habit or routine practice. The court may admit this evidence
    regardless of whether it is corroborated or whether there was an eyewitness.”

    The Warren Commission took just such testimony from Postal Inspector Harry Holmes, who testified as I quoted to you previously, about how postal workers, going about their regular duties, would have given Oswald his rifle. Your argument here is a canard.

    Let me quote for you again, since you seem less than knowledgeable on the pertinent law or Holmes testimony:
    == quote ==
    Mr. LIEBELER. So that the package would have come in addressed to Hidell at Post Office Box 2915, and a notice would have been put in the post office box without regard to who was authorized to receive mail from it?
    Mr. HOLMES. Actually, the window where you get the box is all the way around the corner and a different place from the box, and the people that box the mail, and in theory---I am surmising now, because nobody knows. I have questioned everybody, and they
    have no recollection. The man would take this card out. There is nothing on this card. There is no name on it, not even a box number on it. He comes around and says, "I got this out of my box." And he says, "What box?" "Box number so and so." They look
    in a bin where they have this by box numbers, and whatever the name on it, whatever they gave him, he just hands him the package, and that is all there is to it.
    Mr. LIEBELER. Ordinarily, they won't even request any identification because they would assume if he got the notice out of the box, he was entitled to it?
    Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir.
    Mr. LIEBELER. It is very possible that that in fact is what happened in case? Mr. HOLMES. That is in theory. I would assume that is what happened.
    Mr. LIEBELER. On the other hand, it is also possible that Oswald had actually authorized Hidell to receive mail through the box?
    Mr. HOLMES. Could have been. And on the other hand, he had this identification card of Hidell's in his billfold, which he could have produced and showed the window clerk. Either way, he got it.
    == unquote ==

    And we *know* he got it, because there are photos of him with that weapon, there are his fingerprints on the trigger guard, the rifle Marina told the police Oswald kept in the Paine garage was missing from its normal hiding place, and the weapon that was
    shipped by Klein’s to his PO box was found at his workplace, among much other evidence.

    Your arguments are meaningless against what the Federal Rules of Evidence say is acceptable to be presumed.


    The tracking of the weapons must have been done by you, because it was done half-assed.

    It was done correctly, whether you understand it or not.



    And no employee of either establishment ever came forward to identify himself as the one who gave Oswald the weapons.

    Would you? Would you want everyone to know you handed the assassin of the President of the United States his weapon?

    Do you know anything about human nature? Or history? Mary Surratt was hung as a co-conspirator for knowing John Wilkes Booth. Knowing anything of history, why would anyone take the blame for giving Oswald his rifle?



    Even after Oswald became world famous, and his face was plastered in every newspaper and all over every TV set in the world, you mean to say no one recognized him ?

    No one *admitted* to recognizing him.


    No one remembered his box # 2915 ?

    Or admitted to it.


    No one remembered him coming to the counter with a notice ?

    Or admitted to it.


    No one remembered a 40" package ?

    Or admitted to it.



    No one at REA Express remembered handing him a package that was noted as, "1 crtn pistol" ?

    Or admitted to it.




    Why wasn't anyone from REA Express ever called to give testimony, Chuckles ?

    Because it wasn’t necessary, per the Federal Rules of Evidence.


    Why was all the REA documentation autheticated by Heinz Michaelis, the manager at Seaport Traders,
    who wasn't even employed by them when the transaction occurred ?

    Because what he said was sufficient, according to the Federal Rules of Evidence.



    Why didn't the FBI interview the employees at the USPS branch where Box 2915 was located ?

    Wasn’t needed. Learn the law.


    They interviewed all kinds of people who had no knowledge of the crime.
    They interviewed a woman who knew a woman who babysat Oswald when he was 2 1/2 years old.
    They interviewed Dean Rusk.
    They accepted as an exhibit the bite pattern of Jack Ruby's mother.

    They took 18 pages of testimony from the emcee at Jack Ruby's club.
    But the guy who brought two rifles into the building that the President was allegedly shot from only got two pages of testimony ?

    He brought the rifles into building two days prior the crime, showing off his new weapons to others in the building. They were in TEXAS, right? He took them home the same day.



    What do all these deficiencies have to do with standards between 1963 and today ? These weren't prehistoric times, this was 1963.

    Prehistoric times, by documentation standards.


    Why did they waste their time and manpower on shit that had NOTHING to do with this crime, while at the same time neglecting to pursue leads and tie up loose ends ?

    What loose ends in particular? You haven’t brought up anything pertinent that the knowledgeable lawyers (and Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court wasn’t already extremely familiar with. They knew your arguments are plainly false. Now, so do you.


    Enlighten us, Chuckles.

    I just did. Somehow, I get the feeling you won’t be any more knowledgeable about the law, human nature, or history than you were prior to this missive. These same Federal Rules of Evidence also render most of the other arguments you advance here or on
    your website moot, as well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Fri Nov 3 10:11:33 2023
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 7:25:53 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 6:29:30 AM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    Only the authorities after the commission of a crime, stupid.

    Do you think the need to track the Carcano Oswald killed Kennedy with back to the soldier who carried it in WWII?
    You haven't proven Oswald received the rifle, stupid.

    No, it has been proven, just not to your satisfaction.

    Klein’s business records were produced for the Commission, and William Waldman, the Klein’s VP who designed their system, validated and explained those records. This is sufficient per the Federal Rules of Evidence to establish the rifle bearing the
    serial number C2766 was shipped to Oswald’s PO Box, and the testimony of Harry Holmes (and the Federal Rules of Evidence) is sufficient to establish Oswald took possession of the weapon.

    But we also have so much more, as I explained above. There are photos of him with that weapon, there are his fingerprints on the trigger guard, the rifle Marina told the police Oswald kept in the Paine garage was missing from its normal hiding place, and
    the weapon that was shipped by Klein’s to Oswald’s PO box was found at his workplace, among much other evidence.

    Your arguments are MOOT.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 3 10:10:39 2023
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 12:52:13 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    < a bunch of bullshit >

    From your link:

    "The Federal Rules of Evidence were adopted by order of the Supreme Court on Nov. 20, 1972, transmitted to Congress by the Chief Justice on Feb. 5, 1973, and to have become effective on July 1, 1973. .... provided that the proposed rules “shall have no
    force or effect except to the extent, and with such amendments, as they may be expressly approved by Act of Congress”.......enacted the Federal Rules of Evidence proposed by the Supreme Court, with amendments made by Congress, to take effect on July 1,
    1975."

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre

    Federal Rules of Evidence that took effect on July 1, 1975, were not in effect in 1963.

    Anything else, oh "more knowledgeable" One ?

    Idiot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to chuckschuyler123@gmail.com on Fri Nov 3 09:19:43 2023
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 07:57:16 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler <chuckschuyler123@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 6:25:53?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 6:29:30?AM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    Only the authorities after the commission of a crime, stupid.

    Do you think the need to track the Carcano Oswald killed Kennedy with back to the soldier who carried it in WWII?

    You haven't proven Oswald received the rifle, stupid.

    I'll bet Mrs. Kennedy would've disagreed with that.


    Are you honestly holding up Jackie as a witness to the ownership of a
    rifle she never saw???

    ROTFLMAO!!!!

    What a moron!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Fri Nov 3 10:37:30 2023
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 1:10:41 PM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 12:52:13 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    < a bunch of bullshit >

    From your link:

    "The Federal Rules of Evidence were adopted by order of the Supreme Court on Nov. 20, 1972, transmitted to Congress by the Chief Justice on Feb. 5, 1973, and to have become effective on July 1, 1973. .... provided that the proposed rules “shall have
    no force or effect except to the extent, and with such amendments, as they may be expressly approved by Act of Congress”.......enacted the Federal Rules of Evidence proposed by the Supreme Court, with amendments made by Congress, to take effect on July
    1, 1975."

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre

    Federal Rules of Evidence that took effect on July 1, 1975, were not in effect in 1963.

    Anything else, oh "more knowledgeable" One ?

    Idiot.

    You’re good at name calling. Reasoning? History? Not so much.

    It’s 2023, not 1963, Gil.

    Do you think the Federal Rules of Evidence were *MORE* rigorous in 1963, or less so? Do you understand that the 1975 Federal Rules of Evidence just formalized and standardized rules already in effect or do you think judges were just winging it in 1963?

    And do you *really* think you know more about what evidence was admissible in 1963 that those lawyers who graduated at or near the top of the class in law schools in the recent past (relative to 1963) or than the active Chief Justice of the United States,
    who had spent years as a prosecutor in California? I think you will need to establish that depth and breadth of knowledge of the law, something you have yet to do.

    https://www.forensisgroup.com/resources/expert-legal-witness-blog/federal-rules-of-evidence#

    And please remember, when Oswald was arrested, the Miranda decision (and many other decisions expanding the rights of the accused laid down by the Warren Court) were not yet in effect.

    Here’s the qualifications of a few of the Junior Counsel to the Commission:

    David W. Belin was born in Washington, D.C., on June 20, 1928. He is a graduate of the University of Michigan, where he earned three degrees with high distinction: A.B. (1951), M. Bus. Adm. (1953), and J.D. (1954). At the University of Michigan he was
    associate editor of the Michigan Law Review. He is a member of Phi Beta Kappa and the Order of the Coif. He is a member of the law firm of Herrick, Langdon, Sandblom & Belin, Des Moines, Iowa.

    Arlen Specter was born in Wichita, Kans., on February 12, 1930. He received his B.A. degree from the University of Pennsylvania in 1951, where he was a member of Phi Beta Kappa, and received his LL.B.. from Yale Law School in 1956. He was an editor of
    the Yale Law Journal. Mr. Specter was an associate of the law firm of Dechert, Price & Rhoads in Philadelphia from 1956 to 1959, and from 1959 to 1964 he was an assistant in the Philadelphia district attorney's office. Mr. Specter is a member of the firm
    of Specter & Katz, Philadelphia, Pa.

    Joseph A. Ball was born in Stuart, Iowa, on December 16, 1902. He received his B.A. degree from Creighton University in Omaha, Nebr., and his LL.B. degree from the University of Southern California in 1927. Mr. Ball teaches criminal law and procedure at
    the University of Southern California. ***He is a member of the U.S. Judicial Conference Advisory Committee on Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.*** Mr. Ball is a member of the firm of Ball, Hunt & Hart, Long Beach and Santa Ana, Calif.

    Now, please, share with us your background in the law. Where did you receive your law and history degrees, allowing you to talk knowledgeably about what the law was in 1963?

    Go ahead, we’ll wait. Right now, your arguments reduce to, “I don’t like this, and I can’t tell you why”.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Fri Nov 3 10:52:58 2023
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 7:25:53 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 6:29:30 AM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    Only the authorities after the commission of a crime, stupid.

    Do you think the need to track the Carcano Oswald killed Kennedy with back to the soldier who carried it in WWII?
    You haven't proven Oswald received the rifle, stupid.

    No, it has been proven, just not to your satisfaction.

    Klein’s business records were produced for the Commission, and William Waldman, the Klein’s VP who designed their system, validated and explained those records. This is sufficient per the Federal Rules of Evidence to establish the rifle bearing the
    serial number C2766 was shipped to Oswald’s PO Box, and the testimony of Harry Holmes (and the Federal Rules of Evidence) is sufficient to establish Oswald took possession of the weapon.

    But we also have so much more, as I explained above. There are photos of him with that weapon, there are his fingerprints on the trigger guard, the rifle Marina told the police Oswald kept in the Paine garage was missing from its normal hiding place, and
    the weapon that was shipped by Klein’s to Oswald’s PO box was found at his workplace, among much other evidence.

    I mean to quote Waldman’s testimony.
    == quote ==

    Mr. BELIN. Mr. Waldman, you have just put the microfilm which we call D-77 into your viewer which is marked a Microfilm Reader-Printer, and you have identified this as No. 270502, according to your records. Is this just a record number of yours on this
    particular shipment?
    Mr. WALDMAN. That's a number which we assign for identification purposes.
    Mr. BELIN. And on the microfilm record, would you please state who it shows this particular rifle was shipped
    Mr. WALDMAN. Shipped to a Mr. A.--last name H-i-d-e-l-l, Post Office Box 2915, Dallas, Tex.
    Mr. BELIN. And does it show arts' serial number or control number?
    Mr. WALDMAN. It shows shipment of a rifle bearing our control number VC-836 and serial number C-2766.
    Mr. BELIN. Is there a price shown for that?
    Mr. WALDMAN. Price is $19.95, plus $1.50 postage and handling, or a total of $21.45.
    Mr. BELIN. Now, I see another number off to the left. What is this number?
    Mr. WALDMAN. The number that you referred to, C20-T750 is a catalog number. Mr. BELIN. And after that, there appears some words of identification or description. Can you state what that is?
    Mr. WALDMAN. The number designates an item which we sell, namely, an Italian carbine, 6.5 caliber rifle with the 4X scope.
    Mr. BELIN. Is there a date of shipment which appears on this microfilm record? Mr. WALDMAN. Yes; the date of shipment was March 20, 1963.
    Mr. BELIN. Does it show by what means it was shipped?
    Mr. WALDMAN. It was shipped by parcel post as indicated by this circle around the letters "PP."
    Mr. BELIN. Does it show if any amount was enclosed with the order itself?
    Mr. WALDMAN. Yes; the amount that was enclosed with the order was $21.45, as designated on the right-hand side of this order blank here.
    Mr. BELIN. Opposite the words "total amount enclosed"?
    Mr. WALDMAN. Yes.
    Mr. BELIN. Is there anything which indicates in what form you received the money?
    Mr. WALDMAN. Yes; below the amount is shown the letters "MO" designating money order.
    Mr. BELIN. Now, I see the extreme top of this microfilm, the date, March 13, 1963; to what does that refer?
    Mr. WALDMAN. This is an imprint made by our cash register indicating that the remittance received from the customer was passed through our register on that date.
    Mr. BELIN. And to the right of that, I see $21.45. Is that correct?
    Mr. WALDMAN. That's correct.
    Mr. BELIN. Is there any other record that you have in connection with the shipment of this rifle other than the particular microfilm negative frame that we are looking at right now?
    Mr. WALDMAN. We have a--this microfilm record of a coupon clipped from a portion of one of our advertisements, which indicates by writing of the customer on the coupon that he ordered our catalog No. C20-T750; and he has shown the price of the item, $19.
    95, and gives as his name A. Hidell, and his address as Post Office Box 2915, in Dallas, Tex.
    Mr. BELIN. Anything else on that negative microfilm frame?
    Mr. WALDMAN. The coupon overlays the envelope in which the order was mailed and this shows in the upper left-hand corner .the return address of A. Hidell, Post Office Box 2915, in Dallas, Tex.
    There is a postmark of Dallas, Tex., and a postdate of March 12, 1963, indicating that the order was mailed by airmail.
    Mr. BELIN. Can you see the actual cancelled stamp in the upper right-hand corner?
    Mr. WALDMAN. Yes.
    Mr. BELIN. And the stamp itself says "United States Airmail"?
    Mr. WALDMAN. That's correct.
    Mr. BELIN. And underneath that, someone has written "airmail"; is that correct?
    Mr. WALDMAN. That's true.
    Mr. BELIN. And someone has written it addressed to you; is that correct?
    Mr. WALDMAN. That's right.
    Mr. BELIN. And is it possible on this machine to make prints of these negatives?
    (Whereupon, it was attempted to make copies of said documents.)
    Mr. BELIN. I think the record should show that all of this testimony has been taken upstairs with the court reporter present in front of the actual microfilm machine itself; is that correct?
    Mr. WALDMAN. That's correct.
    == unquote ==

    Your arguments are MOOT.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 3 11:19:03 2023
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 10:52:58 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

    You've claimed that the "A.B.C.D." in the Autopsy Report is the
    description of the *location* of the large head wound.

    Yet you refuse time and time again from QUOTING the preceding
    paragraph that describes what this ACTUALLY is. Why is that?

    You've also claimed that the prosectors dissected the throat wound.

    Why do you continue to refuse to cite any evidence for this?

    Why have you CONSISTENTLY run away each time I raise this issue?

    Now you've quite stupidly insisted that the bullet entered JFK's back,
    and exited the back of his head.

    More cowardice, more stupidity, more dishonesty.

    Are you proud of yourself?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 3 11:18:49 2023
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 10:11:33 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

    You've claimed that the "A.B.C.D." in the Autopsy Report is the
    description of the *location* of the large head wound.

    Yet you refuse time and time again from QUOTING the preceding
    paragraph that describes what this ACTUALLY is. Why is that?

    You've also claimed that the prosectors dissected the throat wound.

    Why do you continue to refuse to cite any evidence for this?

    Why have you CONSISTENTLY run away each time I raise this issue?

    Now you've quite stupidly insisted that the bullet entered JFK's back,
    and exited the back of his head.

    More cowardice, more stupidity, more dishonesty.

    Are you proud of yourself?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Fri Nov 3 12:51:00 2023
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 7:25:53 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 6:29:30 AM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    Only the authorities after the commission of a crime, stupid.

    Do you think the need to track the Carcano Oswald killed Kennedy with back to the soldier who carried it in WWII?
    You haven't proven Oswald received the rifle, stupid.

    To who?

    And there is a rifle is evidence. Your idea seems to be that that rifle needs to be traced back to every person who touched it since it left the foundry.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 3 14:07:08 2023
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 12:51:00 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirslick@fast.net>
    wrote:

    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't
    get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Fri Nov 3 16:54:02 2023
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 4:31:32 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 12:07:26 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:

    Or, you know, sit on your ass in your cluttered little home and bitch about the Warren Commission Report.

    Get busy, Lazy Bones.

    LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

    Decades spent sitting on your ass and bitching.
    Talk about lazy, when was the last time you posted any evidence ?

    Once again, Charles Schuyler posts no evidence.

    No citations
    No documents
    No testimony
    No exhibits
    No witness videos
    No links

    What would you accept? I see Hank just provided a long cite from the WCR. Did it help you understand this issue better?

    What Charles Schuyler DOES post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults.

    Welcome to alt.conspiracy.jfk, which is--as Ben would refer to it--an "uncensored" discussion board. Comments, speculation, opinion and insults are par for the course.

    Charles Schuyler acts like a 10 year old online.

    And sometimes offline.

    You can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from his posts.

    Yes, YOU can gain no knowledge from my posts. Or anybody else's posts. You are unreachable in the depths of your disease called conspiracism.

    That's why we call Charles Schuyler, "Chuckles the Clown".

    I've been called worse. But you don't insult people or act like a ten year old, right? You're a "serious" researcher.

    Charles Schuyler is a troll.

    The troll likes knocking down your JFK hobby playset and scattering it to the wind. Good times.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to chuckschuyler123@gmail.com on Mon Nov 6 07:04:19 2023
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 16:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler <chuckschuyler123@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 4:31:32?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 12:07:26?AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:

    Or, you know, sit on your ass in your cluttered little home and bitch about the Warren Commission Report.

    Get busy, Lazy Bones.

    LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

    Decades spent sitting on your ass and bitching.
    Talk about lazy, when was the last time you posted any evidence ?

    Once again, Charles Schuyler posts no evidence.

    No citations
    No documents
    No testimony
    No exhibits
    No witness videos
    No links

    What would you accept?


    This is what cowards ask in place of offering citations & evidence.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)