• Re: "The facts will show that Ruby never planned to shoot Oswald but di

    From gggg gggg@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 25 22:48:15 2023
    On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 10:47:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
    https://www.tallahassee.com/story/life/2021/02/27/who-shot-jfk-final-report-rubys-dog-ask-judge-smith/6834592002/

    Did Ruby usually carry a gun with him?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From NoTrueFlags Here@21:1/5 to gggg gggg on Mon Sep 25 23:10:12 2023
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:48:16 AM UTC-4, gggg gggg wrote:
    On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 10:47:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
    https://www.tallahassee.com/story/life/2021/02/27/who-shot-jfk-final-report-rubys-dog-ask-judge-smith/6834592002/

    Did Ruby usually carry a gun with him?

    The cop, Joe Cody, who bought the gun for Ruby, told the FBI that he had "heard" that Ruby carried a gun, so it probably is true. https://postimg.cc/xcGTw1sS

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to gggg gggg on Tue Sep 26 02:12:25 2023
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:48:16 AM UTC-4, gggg gggg wrote:
    On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 10:47:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
    https://www.tallahassee.com/story/life/2021/02/27/who-shot-jfk-final-report-rubys-dog-ask-judge-smith/6834592002/

    Did Ruby usually carry a gun with him?

    Yes and the cops knew he carried. https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/WH_Vol20_55-cops-knew-he-carried.gif

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Tue Sep 26 04:39:01 2023
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 5:12:27 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:48:16 AM UTC-4, gggg gggg wrote:
    On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 10:47:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
    https://www.tallahassee.com/story/life/2021/02/27/who-shot-jfk-final-report-rubys-dog-ask-judge-smith/6834592002/

    Did Ruby usually carry a gun with him?
    Yes and the cops knew he carried. https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/WH_Vol20_55-cops-knew-he-carried.gif

    Some cops knew he carried which doesn't mean all cops knew he carried. Ruby showed up in
    the parking garage at the last minute and there is no reason to believe anyone would have
    noticed his presence among all the reporters down there or known he had a gun.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to John Corbett on Tue Sep 26 05:08:53 2023
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 7:39:02 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Ruby showed up in the parking garage at the last minute

    That's bullshit. The cops waited for him to get into position before they brought Oswald down.

    And the man who was the "lookout" for Ruby was Lt., Woodrow Wiggins.

    Wiggins “had known Jack Ruby for years”, ( 12 H 393 ) and would have been able to tell them when Ruby was in the basement.

    Sunday, November 24th was his first day back to work after his own two days off and placed him in the jail office covering for that supervisor’s day off. ( 12 H 389 )

    Not only did his assignment in the jail office allow Wiggins to know where Oswald was in the building, it put Wiggins in the perfect position of checking the adjacent basement to see if Ruby was there.
    That's why they transferred Oswald on Sunday.

    In his testimony, Wiggins admitted that although he had no role in the transfer and did not take part in securing it, he “was in and out of the basement looking it over.” ( 12 H 390 )

    Looking it over for what ? Or should I say, for whom ?
    He was never asked.

    Wiggins testified that he received a call from upstairs saying they were bringing Oswald down and as soon as he hung up, he noticed the indicator lights on the elevator showing it was on its way. ( 12 H 391 ) This would imply that Fritz et al were
    already on their way down when the call was made.

    But the report of Lt. T.L. Baker said that prior to leaving the office, Fritz told a Detective named Baker to call the jail office. During that conversation, Wiggins “said all was clear” and Baker told him they were “leaving with Oswald and to have
    the cars ready.” ( Dallas Police Box 5, pg. 307 )

    This report indicates that Wiggins told them, “all was clear” BEFORE they left Fritz’s office and well enough in advance to move the cars into position. It blows away Wiggins’ account of the call being made as they were on their way.

    BTW, neither Lt. Baker nor Detective Baker were called to testify.

    Wiggins also testified that once they got off the elevator, Fritz asked him again, “are they ready ?” at which time he stepped out of the door and into the corridor first. He said that although he “could not remember whether or not he answered
    Fritz”, he was sure if he did answer him, he told them that they were ready. ( 12 H 392 )

    I suggest that Wiggins went out the door and into the basement, saw Ruby and told Fritz “they” were ready.

    But they weren’t ready, as the cars were not yet in position. So the "ready" signal could not have been meant for the transfer.

    Wiggins didn’t have the cars ready, as evident in the video of Oswald’s murder. Sgt. James Leavelle testified that, “we were given to understand that the car would be across the passageway”. He added that Capt. Fritz said, “Everything is all
    set”, but he ( Leavelle ) was, “surprised when I walked to the door and the car was not in the spot it should have been.” ( 13 H 17 )

    In spite of the car not being in position for the transfer, Fritz, instead of delaying Oswald’s advance into the basement until the car was in position, came into the basement, looked to his left ( in Jack Ruby’s direction ) and turned back and
    nodded for his detectives to bring Oswald into the basement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mRn-nipHQg

    More:
    https://gil-jesus.com/the-framing-and-murder-of-lee-harvey-oswald/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Tue Sep 26 08:07:07 2023
    On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 04:39:01 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 5:12:27?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:48:16?AM UTC-4, gggg gggg wrote:
    On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 10:47:18?PM UTC-7, wrote:
    https://www.tallahassee.com/story/life/2021/02/27/who-shot-jfk-final-report-rubys-dog-ask-judge-smith/6834592002/

    Did Ruby usually carry a gun with him?
    Yes and the cops knew he carried.
    https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/WH_Vol20_55-cops-knew-he-carried.gif

    Some cops knew he carried which doesn't mean all cops knew he carried.

    You're clearly a moron who can't read - as Gil said nothing about "all
    cops knew he carried"

    But this is what you morons **NEED** to do - intentionally
    misrepresent what critics state - because you cannot refute what we
    actually say.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Tue Sep 26 10:28:20 2023
    On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 10:19:23 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 8:08:55?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 7:39:02?AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote: >>>Ruby showed up in the parking garage at the last minute
    That's bullshit. The cops waited for him to get into position before they brought Oswald down.

    This is where Gil resorts to speculation since there is no evidence of that.


    When you have to lie to make a point, the only point you've made is
    that you're a liar.


    And the man who was the "lookout" for Ruby was Lt., Woodrow Wiggins.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    Wiggins had known Jack Ruby for years, ( 12 H 393 ) and would have been able to tell them when Ruby was in the basement.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    Sunday, November 24th was his first day back to work after his own two days off and placed him in the jail office covering for that supervisors day off. ( 12 H 389 )


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    Not only did his assignment in the jail office allow Wiggins to know where Oswald was in the building, it put Wiggins in the perfect position of checking the adjacent basement to see if Ruby was there.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    That's why they transferred Oswald on Sunday.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    In his testimony, Wiggins admitted that although he had no role in the transfer and did not take part in securing it, he was in and out of the basement looking it over. ( 12 H 390 )


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    Looking it over for what ? Or should I say, for whom ?
    He was never asked.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    Wiggins testified that he received a call from upstairs saying they were bringing Oswald down and as soon as he hung up, he noticed the indicator lights on the elevator showing it was on its way. ( 12 H 391 ) This would imply that Fritz et al were
    already on their way down when the call was made.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    But the report of Lt. T.L. Baker said that prior to leaving the office, Fritz told a Detective named Baker to call the jail office. During that conversation, Wiggins said all was clear and Baker told him they were leaving with Oswald and to have
    the cars ready. ( Dallas Police Box 5, pg. 307 )

    This report indicates that Wiggins told them, all was clear BEFORE they left Fritzs office and well enough in advance to move the cars into position. It blows away Wiggins account of the call being made as they were on their way.

    BTW, neither Lt. Baker nor Detective Baker were called to testify.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    Wiggins also testified that once they got off the elevator, Fritz asked him again, are they ready ? at which time he stepped out of the door and into the corridor first. He said that although he could not remember whether or not he answered Fritz,
    he was sure if he did answer him, he told them that they were ready. ( 12 H 392 )

    I suggest that Wiggins went out the door and into the basement, saw Ruby and told Fritz they were ready.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    But they werent ready, as the cars were not yet in position. So the "ready" signal could not have been meant for the transfer.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    Wiggins didnt have the cars ready, as evident in the video of Oswalds murder. Sgt. James Leavelle testified that, we were given to understand that the car would be across the passageway. He added that Capt. Fritz said, Everything is all set, but
    he ( Leavelle ) was, surprised when I walked to the door and the car was not in the spot it should have been. ( 13 H 17 )


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    In spite of the car not being in position for the transfer, Fritz, instead of delaying Oswalds advance into the basement until the car was in position, came into the basement, looked to his left ( in Jack Rubys direction ) and turned back and nodded
    for his detectives to bring Oswald into the basement.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mRn-nipHQg

    More:
    https://gil-jesus.com/the-framing-and-murder-of-lee-harvey-oswald/


    Logical fallacy deleted.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Tue Sep 26 10:19:23 2023
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 8:08:55 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 7:39:02 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote: >Ruby showed up in the parking garage at the last minute
    That's bullshit. The cops waited for him to get into position before they brought Oswald down.

    This is where Gil resorts to speculation since there is no evidence of that.

    And the man who was the "lookout" for Ruby was Lt., Woodrow Wiggins.

    As I was saying...

    Isn't it funny how Gil rejects all the rock solid evidence that Oswald was a double murderer, then
    accuses the DPD in conspiring with Jack Ruby to murder Oswald without a scrap of evidence
    to support such an allegation.

    Wiggins “had known Jack Ruby for years”, ( 12 H 393 ) and would have been able to tell them when Ruby was in the basement.

    Is that your idea of evidence the DPD conspired to kill Oswald?

    Sunday, November 24th was his first day back to work after his own two days off and placed him in the jail office covering for that supervisor’s day off. ( 12 H 389 )

    This is what Gil thinks is evidence. <chuckle>

    Not only did his assignment in the jail office allow Wiggins to know where Oswald was in the building, it put Wiggins in the perfect position of checking the adjacent basement to see if Ruby was there.

    Pure speculation.

    That's why they transferred Oswald on Sunday.

    Do you really think you have provided any evidence the DPD was complicit in Oswald's murder?

    In his testimony, Wiggins admitted that although he had no role in the transfer and did not take part in securing it, he “was in and out of the basement looking it over.” ( 12 H 390 )

    So he was in and out of the basement. How is that evidence he conspired to murder Oswald?

    Looking it over for what ? Or should I say, for whom ?
    He was never asked.

    Why would he be? It's only morons like you who see conspiracies where none exist.


    Wiggins testified that he received a call from upstairs saying they were bringing Oswald down and as soon as he hung up, he noticed the indicator lights on the elevator showing it was on its way. ( 12 H 391 ) This would imply that Fritz et al were
    already on their way down when the call was made.

    Gil thinks this is the smoking gun.

    But the report of Lt. T.L. Baker said that prior to leaving the office, Fritz told a Detective named Baker to call the jail office. During that conversation, Wiggins “said all was clear” and Baker told him they were “leaving with Oswald and to
    have the cars ready.” ( Dallas Police Box 5, pg. 307 )

    This report indicates that Wiggins told them, “all was clear” BEFORE they left Fritz’s office and well enough in advance to move the cars into position. It blows away Wiggins’ account of the call being made as they were on their way.

    BTW, neither Lt. Baker nor Detective Baker were called to testify.

    Again, why would there be? You have offered nothing but speculation that anyone in the DPD
    was complicit in the murder of Oswald, just as you have never offered any evidence that anybody
    other than Oswald was complicit in the murders of JFK and Tippit.


    Wiggins also testified that once they got off the elevator, Fritz asked him again, “are they ready ?” at which time he stepped out of the door and into the corridor first. He said that although he “could not remember whether or not he answered
    Fritz”, he was sure if he did answer him, he told them that they were ready. ( 12 H 392 )

    I suggest that Wiggins went out the door and into the basement, saw Ruby and told Fritz “they” were ready.

    You suggest all sorts of things for which you have provided zero evidence.

    But they weren’t ready, as the cars were not yet in position. So the "ready" signal could not have been meant for the transfer.

    Tell us what evidence you have of that allegation.

    Wiggins didn’t have the cars ready, as evident in the video of Oswald’s murder. Sgt. James Leavelle testified that, “we were given to understand that the car would be across the passageway”. He added that Capt. Fritz said, “Everything is all
    set”, but he ( Leavelle ) was, “surprised when I walked to the door and the car was not in the spot it should have been.” ( 13 H 17 )

    You have provided evidence of miscommunication among those involved in the transfer. You
    have provided no evidence they were conspiring to kill Oswald.

    In spite of the car not being in position for the transfer, Fritz, instead of delaying Oswald’s advance into the basement until the car was in position, came into the basement, looked to his left ( in Jack Ruby’s direction ) and turned back and
    nodded for his detectives to bring Oswald into the basement.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mRn-nipHQg

    More:
    https://gil-jesus.com/the-framing-and-murder-of-lee-harvey-oswald/

    Not one thing in your entire diatribe is evidence anyone in the DPD was conspiring with Jack
    Ruby to kill Oswald. It is 100% speculation by you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Tue Sep 26 12:19:07 2023
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 11:07:12 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 04:39:01 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett
    <geowri...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 5:12:27?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:48:16?AM UTC-4, gggg gggg wrote:
    On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 10:47:18?PM UTC-7, wrote:
    https://www.tallahassee.com/story/life/2021/02/27/who-shot-jfk-final-report-rubys-dog-ask-judge-smith/6834592002/

    Did Ruby usually carry a gun with him?
    Yes and the cops knew he carried.
    https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/WH_Vol20_55-cops-knew-he-carried.gif

    Some cops knew he carried which doesn't mean all cops knew he carried. You're clearly a moron who can't read - as Gil said nothing about "all
    cops knew he carried"

    Which cops are excluded when he says "the cops", stupid?

    But this is what you morons **NEED** to do - intentionally
    misrepresent what critics state - because you cannot refute what we
    actually say.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Tue Sep 26 12:17:00 2023
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:28:28 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 10:19:23 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett
    <geowri...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 8:08:55?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 7:39:02?AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote: >>>Ruby showed up in the parking garage at the last minute
    That's bullshit. The cops waited for him to get into position before they brought Oswald down.

    This is where Gil resorts to speculation since there is no evidence of that. When you have to lie to make a point, the only point you've made is
    that you're a liar.

    If you are going to remove every point made, the only point you`ve made is that you are a coward.

    And the man who was the "lookout" for Ruby was Lt., Woodrow Wiggins. Logical fallacy deleted.
    Wiggins “had known Jack Ruby for years”, ( 12 H 393 ) and would have been able to tell them when Ruby was in the basement.
    Logical fallacy deleted.
    Sunday, November 24th was his first day back to work after his own two days off and placed him in the jail office covering for that supervisor’s day off. ( 12 H 389 )
    Logical fallacy deleted.
    Not only did his assignment in the jail office allow Wiggins to know where Oswald was in the building, it put Wiggins in the perfect position of checking the adjacent basement to see if Ruby was there.
    Logical fallacy deleted.
    That's why they transferred Oswald on Sunday.
    Logical fallacy deleted.
    In his testimony, Wiggins admitted that although he had no role in the transfer and did not take part in securing it, he “was in and out of the basement looking it over.” ( 12 H 390 )
    Logical fallacy deleted.
    Looking it over for what ? Or should I say, for whom ?
    He was never asked.
    Logical fallacy deleted.
    Wiggins testified that he received a call from upstairs saying they were bringing Oswald down and as soon as he hung up, he noticed the indicator lights on the elevator showing it was on its way. ( 12 H 391 ) This would imply that Fritz et al were
    already on their way down when the call was made.
    Logical fallacy deleted.
    But the report of Lt. T.L. Baker said that prior to leaving the office, Fritz told a Detective named Baker to call the jail office. During that conversation, Wiggins “said all was clear” and Baker told him they were “leaving with Oswald and to
    have the cars ready.” ( Dallas Police Box 5, pg. 307 )

    This report indicates that Wiggins told them, “all was clear” BEFORE they left Fritz’s office and well enough in advance to move the cars into position. It blows away Wiggins’ account of the call being made as they were on their way.

    BTW, neither Lt. Baker nor Detective Baker were called to testify.
    Logical fallacy deleted.
    Wiggins also testified that once they got off the elevator, Fritz asked him again, “are they ready ?” at which time he stepped out of the door and into the corridor first. He said that although he “could not remember whether or not he answered
    Fritz”, he was sure if he did answer him, he told them that they were ready. ( 12 H 392 )

    I suggest that Wiggins went out the door and into the basement, saw Ruby and told Fritz “they” were ready.
    Logical fallacy deleted.
    But they weren’t ready, as the cars were not yet in position. So the "ready" signal could not have been meant for the transfer.
    Logical fallacy deleted.
    Wiggins didn’t have the cars ready, as evident in the video of Oswald’s murder. Sgt. James Leavelle testified that, “we were given to understand that the car would be across the passageway”. He added that Capt. Fritz said, “Everything is
    all set”, but he ( Leavelle ) was, “surprised when I walked to the door and the car was not in the spot it should have been.” ( 13 H 17 )
    Logical fallacy deleted.
    In spite of the car not being in position for the transfer, Fritz, instead of delaying Oswald’s advance into the basement until the car was in position, came into the basement, looked to his left ( in Jack Ruby’s direction ) and turned back and
    nodded for his detectives to bring Oswald into the basement.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mRn-nipHQg

    More:
    https://gil-jesus.com/the-framing-and-murder-of-lee-harvey-oswald/
    Logical fallacy deleted.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 26 13:08:48 2023
    On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:17:00 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirslick@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't
    get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 26 13:09:01 2023
    On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:19:07 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirslick@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't
    get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)