In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.hair.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off, by a
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:44suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.
Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
hair.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off, by a
suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:44
Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
I have no idea how you arrived at the last sentence based on everything you wrote above it.
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.hair.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off, by a
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:44suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.
Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
dcw
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
hair.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off, by a
Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:44
Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
dcw
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
hair.So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off, by a
Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:44
Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
dcw
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
a hair.Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off, by
suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:44
everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as did
Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paine’stestimony on that point:
— quote —police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I insisted.
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble with the
They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things whichbelonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.
Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had seen
Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?had stored in here.
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that he
Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised--
Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand?
Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26?PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:hair.
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare: >>
Age height weight
Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off, by a
suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:44
I have no idea how you arrived at the last sentence based on everything you wrote above it.
Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:37:54 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
Good of you to return Huckster...
Get busy, you have some posts to deal with... You know, the ones you
ran from last time...
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
by a hair.Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off,
44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:
everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as did
testimony on that point:Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paine’s
the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I— quote —
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble with
which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things
seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had
had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that he
building.Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised--
Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand?
Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside of the
So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:22:33 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
by a hair.Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off,
44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:
did everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as
s testimony on that point:Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paine’
the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I— quote —
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble with
which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things
seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had
he had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that
the building.Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised--
Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand?
Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside of
Begged question, you are assuming what you must prove. Why couldn't the witness have reported what he saw, a man with a rifle within the building? Show how Sawyer’s words lead exclusively to the conclusion that a witness reported a man with a rifleoutside the building.
So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!I think you are reading too much into Sawyer’s words and torturing them beyond all significance.
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:42:37?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:37:54 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
Good of you to return Huckster...
Get busy, you have some posts to deal with... You know, the ones you
ran from last time...
You just ran from everything I wrote!
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 2:35:50 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:22:33 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
off, by a hair.Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest
12:44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the
did everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as
s testimony on that point:Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paine
with the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I— quote —
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble
which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things
seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had
he had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that
the building.Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised--
Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand?
Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside of
outside the building.Begged question, you are assuming what you must prove. Why couldn't the witness have reported what he saw, a man with a rifle within the building? Show how Sawyer’s words lead exclusively to the conclusion that a witness reported a man with a rifle
This document speaks for itself. https://postimg.cc/18tHF6n6 If you disagree, then there is nothing to talk about.So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!I think you are reading too much into Sawyer’s words and torturing them beyond all significance.
On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 11:29:47 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:42:37?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:37:54 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
Good of you to return Huckster...
Get busy, you have some posts to deal with... You know, the ones you
ran from last time...
You just ran from everything I wrote!You just ran from everything I wrote above!!! WHAT A COWARD!!!
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 2:39:20?PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote: >> On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 2:35:50?PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:by a hair.
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:22:33?AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56?PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote: >>>>> On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26?PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26?PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote: >>>>>>> In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:And Officer Baker who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswalds age, height, and weight thusly:
Age height weight
Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
Baker: The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.
M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
Estimates may vary from measurements. Thats why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.
Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off,
44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:
did everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Officer Baker who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswalds age, height, and weight thusly:
Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm >>>>>
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as
testimony on that point:
Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paines
the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if Iquote
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble with
which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things
seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had
he had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that
the building.Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised--But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside of
Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand?
Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
unquote
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.
outside the building.Begged question, you are assuming what you must prove. Why couldn't the witness have reported what he saw, a man with a rifle within the building? Show how Sawyers words lead exclusively to the conclusion that a witness reported a man with a rifle
to FBI Gordon Shanklin (DAL) to FBI James Malley (WAS), who apparently created the document for Hoover to read.This document speaks for itself. https://postimg.cc/18tHF6n6 If you disagree, then there is nothing to talk about.So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!I think you are reading too much into Sawyers words and torturing them beyond all significance.
Ah, so a hearsay account of what Sawyer supposedly heard the witness say, with Sawyer not even sniffing a whiff of the document. The information should come from Sawyer. But instead, it started with DPD Charles Batchelor, goes to FBI Vincent Drain (DAL)
What did the dispatcher, who spoke to Sawyer directly, say?
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0438a.htm
Nothing about a man running from the Depository armed with a rifle.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0438b.htm
And Officer Porston (233), who is already at Elm and Houston, answers the question of another patrolman, What is he wanted for? with He is thought to be in this Texas School Book Depository
Nothing about a man running from the Depository armed with a rifle. Only about an armed individual in the building.
But you cling to that hearsay account multiple times removed.from the actual people involved or on the scene.
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 3:39:57?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 11:29:47 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:42:37?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:37:54 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
Good of you to return Huckster...
Get busy, you have some posts to deal with... You know, the ones you
ran from last time...
You just ran from everything I wrote!
You just ran from everything I wrote above!!! WHAT A COWARD!!!
And Ben...
On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 13:42:59 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 3:39:57?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 11:29:47 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:42:37?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote: >>>> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:37:54 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
Good of you to return Huckster...
Get busy, you have some posts to deal with... You know, the ones you >>>> ran from last time...
You just ran from everything I wrote!
You just ran from everything I wrote above!!! WHAT A COWARD!!!
And Ben...
Ponts out your hypocrisy. (and cowardice...)
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 5:06:51?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:by a hair.
On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 13:41:58 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 2:39:20?PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote: >>>> On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 2:35:50?PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote: >>>>> On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:22:33?AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56?PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote: >>>>>>> On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26?PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26?PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote: >>>>>>>>> In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:And Officer Baker who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswalds age, height, and weight thusly:
Age height weight
Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
Baker: The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.
M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
Estimates may vary from measurements. Thats why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.
Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off,
44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:
did everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Officer Baker who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswalds age, height, and weight thusly:
Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as
s testimony on that point:
Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paine
with the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if Iquote
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble
which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things
seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had
he had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that
the building.Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised-- >>>>>>> Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside of
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand? >>>>>>> Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
unquote
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.
outside the building.Begged question, you are assuming what you must prove. Why couldn't the witness have reported what he saw, a man with a rifle within the building? Show how Sawyers words lead exclusively to the conclusion that a witness reported a man with a rifle
DAL) to FBI Gordon Shanklin (DAL) to FBI James Malley (WAS), who apparently created the document for Hoover to read.This document speaks for itself. https://postimg.cc/18tHF6n6 If you disagree, then there is nothing to talk about.So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!I think you are reading too much into Sawyers words and torturing them beyond all significance.
Ah, so a hearsay account of what Sawyer supposedly heard the witness say, with Sawyer not even sniffing a whiff of the document. The information should come from Sawyer. But instead, it started with DPD Charles Batchelor, goes to FBI Vincent Drain (
I so enjoy watching believers arguing with other believers/trolls...
What did the dispatcher, who spoke to Sawyer directly, say?
Nothing about a man running from the Depository armed with a rifle.https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0438a.htm
And Officer Porston (233), who is already at Elm and Houston, answers the question of another patrolman, What is he wanted for? with He is thought to be in this Texas School Book Depositoryhttps://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0438b.htm
Nothing about a man running from the Depository armed with a rifle. Only about an armed individual in the building.
But you cling to that hearsay account multiple times removed.from the actual people involved or on the scene.
Always good for a laugh!
You were invited to participate in the discussion. You have thus far declined.
Lets discuss.
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
by a hair.Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off,
44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:
everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as did
testimony on that point:Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paine’s
the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I— quote —
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble with
which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things
seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had
had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that he
building. So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised--
Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand?
Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside of the
On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 13:41:58 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzantby a hair.
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 2:39:20?PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 2:35:50?PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote: >>> On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:22:33?AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56?PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote: >>>>> On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26?PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26?PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.
M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.
Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off,
44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:
did everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:
Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as
s testimony on that point:
Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paine
with the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I— quote —
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble
which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things
seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had
he had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that
the building.Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised--But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside of
Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand? >>>>> Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.
rifle outside the building.Begged question, you are assuming what you must prove. Why couldn't the witness have reported what he saw, a man with a rifle within the building? Show how Sawyer’s words lead exclusively to the conclusion that a witness reported a man with a
DAL) to FBI Gordon Shanklin (DAL) to FBI James Malley (WAS), who apparently created the document for Hoover to read.This document speaks for itself. https://postimg.cc/18tHF6n6 If you disagree, then there is nothing to talk about.So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!I think you are reading too much into Sawyer’s words and torturing them beyond all significance.
Ah, so a hearsay account of what Sawyer supposedly heard the witness say, with Sawyer not even sniffing a whiff of the document. The information should come from Sawyer. But instead, it started with DPD Charles Batchelor, goes to FBI Vincent Drain (
What did the dispatcher, who spoke to Sawyer directly, say?
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0438a.htm
Nothing about a man running from the Depository armed with a rifle.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0438b.htm
And Officer Porston (233), who is already at Elm and Houston, answers the question of another patrolman, “What is he wanted for?” with “He is thought to be in this Texas School Book Depository…”
Nothing about a man running from the Depository armed with a rifle. Only about an armed individual in the building.
But you cling to that hearsay account multiple times removed.from the actual people involved or on the scene.I so enjoy watching believers arguing with other believers/trolls...
Always good for a laugh!
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 5:07:37?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 13:42:59 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 3:39:57?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 11:29:47 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:42:37?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:37:54 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
Good of you to return Huckster...
Get busy, you have some posts to deal with... You know, the ones you >>>>>> ran from last time...
You just ran from everything I wrote!
You just ran from everything I wrote above!!! WHAT A COWARD!!!
And Ben...
Ponts out your hypocrisy. (and cowardice...)
More ad hominem.
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:22:33 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
by a hair.Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off,
44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:
did everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as
s testimony on that point:Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paine’
the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I— quote —
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble with
which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things
seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had
he had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that
the building. So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised--
Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand?
Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside of
1. Is it more important? You need to establish that. Begged Question - LOGICAL FALLACY #1.
2. Red Herring, AKA change of subject - LOGICAL FALLACY #2.
Is Willis making much ado about nothing?
Let’s discuss.
Then we can return to your hearsay account while you ignore what the person on the scene and the dispatcher who spoke with Sawyer said.
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:22:33 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
by a hair.Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest off,
44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the 12:
did everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as
s testimony on that point:Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paine’
the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I— quote —
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble with
which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things
seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had
he had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that
the building.Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised--
Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand?
Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside of
Begged question, you are assuming what you must prove. Why couldn't the witness have reported what he saw, a man with a rifle within the building?
So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!I think you are reading too much into Sawyer’s words and torturing them beyond all significance.
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:42:37 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:37:54 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
Good of you to return Huckster...
Get busy, you have some posts to deal with... You know, the ones youYou just ran from everything I wrote!
ran from last time...
We know why. You can’t explain the evidence in a way that makes sense.
Baker confronted Oswald within the TSBD, and this is affirmed by Baker, Roy Truly, and Oswald.
Willis attempts to argue that the person seen shooting couldn't be Oswald.
To do that, he substitutes his own estimate of Oswald’s weight, estimating 140
But he ignores that Baker estimated the same age and weight for Oswald as the other witnesses (he mentioned it, but fails to draw the reasonable conclusion here). Of course, to keep his theory alive, Willis then also must argue that Baker didn'tconfront Oswald, but someone else entirely.
But that means Truly was also lying
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 11:35:50 AM UTC-7, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:22:33 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
off, by a hair.Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest
12:44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the
did everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as
s testimony on that point:Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paine
with the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I— quote —
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble
which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things
seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had
he had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that
the building.Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised--
Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand?
Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside of
around "second" rifle or "second" man. Hank S, all boxed in & gift-wrapped, by himself!Begged question, you are assuming what you must prove. Why couldn't the witness have reported what he saw, a man with a rifle within the building?Fine. You accept that "he saw a man with a rifle within the building"--but what he said was, more exactly, that he saw a man with a rifle "run" from the building. So either Oswald had two rifles or there was a second man with a rifle. You can't get
dcw
Show how Sawyer’s words lead exclusively to the conclusion that a witness reported a man with a rifle outside the building.
So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!I think you are reading too much into Sawyer’s words and torturing them beyond all significance.
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 7:30:12 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 5:26:38 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:22:33 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
off, by a hair.Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest
the 12:44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for
as did everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald,
Paine’s testimony on that point:Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth
with the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I— quote —
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble
things which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other
had seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she
that he had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun
of the building. So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised-- Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand? Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside
Moellenhoff? Discuss. Shove up your ass. Rinse . Repeat.1. Is it more important? You need to establish that. Begged Question - LOGICAL FALLACY #1.
2. Red Herring, AKA change of subject - LOGICAL FALLACY #2.
Is Willis making much ado about nothing?
Let’s discuss.
Then we can return to your hearsay account while you ignore what the person on the scene and the dispatcher who spoke with Sawyer said.I don't need to establish anything. Produce your documents that support whatever the fuck you are saying. Then it can be properly ignored. Do you really think that Jack Tatum is a reliable witness? Do you really think that Dale Myers talked to Dr.
You just told me you would ignore the documents I would provide, so I won't waste my time.
You're welcome.
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 11:29:49 AM UTC-7, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:42:37 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:37:54 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
Good of you to return Huckster...
Get busy, you have some posts to deal with... You know, the ones youYou just ran from everything I wrote!
ran from last time...
We know why. You can’t explain the evidence in a way that makes sense.
Baker confronted Oswald within the TSBD, and this is affirmed by Baker, Roy Truly, and Oswald.
Willis attempts to argue that the person seen shooting couldn't be Oswald.Wrong, Hank. I do believe that the person seen shooting was probably Oswald.
for headlines... Now, even slandering the WR...To do that, he substitutes his own estimate of Oswald’s weight, estimating 140Someone is jumping to concussions. That wasn't MY estimate--that was what was recorded in... The Warren Report. In other words, Hank, you're saying that the WR is arguing that the person seen shooting couldn't have been Oswald. Boy, are YOU desperate
, and contrasts it with what the witnesses said. He contrasts Oswald’s age with the witnesses estimate of around 30.confront Oswald, but someone else entirely.
But he ignores that Baker estimated the same age and weight for Oswald as the other witnesses (he mentioned it, but fails to draw the reasonable conclusion here). Of course, to keep his theory alive, Willis then also must argue that Baker didn't
I don't know that I've EVER said that. What planet did you just come back from?
But that means Truly was also lyingBuilt on a false premise!
, and any LEO who mentioned the encounter was also lying. The conspiracy circle expands to encompass more and more people, it never contracts.
Wrong again, oh conclusion-jumper. My take on the "conspiracy circle" actually just contracted--as I just wrote elsewhere on acj, I have taken Insp. Sawyer off my Conspirators list! Never say "never"...
dcw
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 5:26:38 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:22:33 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
off, by a hair.Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the furthest
12:44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for the
did everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald, as
s testimony on that point:Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth Paine
with the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I— quote —
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble
which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other things
seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she had
he had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun that
the building. So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised--
Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand?
Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside of
Moellenhoff? Discuss. Shove up your ass. Rinse . Repeat.1. Is it more important? You need to establish that. Begged Question - LOGICAL FALLACY #1.
2. Red Herring, AKA change of subject - LOGICAL FALLACY #2.
Is Willis making much ado about nothing?
Let’s discuss.
Then we can return to your hearsay account while you ignore what the person on the scene and the dispatcher who spoke with Sawyer said.I don't need to establish anything. Produce your documents that support whatever the fuck you are saying. Then it can be properly ignored. Do you really think that Jack Tatum is a reliable witness? Do you really think that Dale Myers talked to Dr.
On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 3:20:55 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 7:30:12 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 5:26:38 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 1:22:33 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:37:56 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:10:26 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:04:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
In Dealey, there were at least 5 h/w/a estimates re the suspect. To compare:
Age height weight
And Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:Brennan early 30s 5'10" 165-175 lbs.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Baker: “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Sawyer's 30 5'10" 165 lbs
unidentified witness
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”12:44 suspect 30 5'10" 165
description
Yes, that was Oswald he saw. And he estimated the above, consistent with the other *estimates*.M. Baker 30 5'9" 165
“The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”Worrell late 20s/early 30s 5'7"-5'10" 155-165
furthest off, by a hair.Estimates may vary from measurements. That’s why reasonable people don't put the estimates ahead of the measurements, and don't use estimates to eliminate suspects. This is something conspiracy theorists do.Oswald's actual 24 5'9" 140 lbs.
So... unanimity on height, and all 5 correct. As for age--all 5 way off. And weight--all 5 way off. And all 5 off by adding pounds. And, overall, all 5 sources pretty much agree, with Worrell the closest, by a hair, and Brennan the
the 12:44 suspect description. The witness's words were transferred verbatim to Sawyer's transmission.Rose estimated Oswald`s weight to be 150 at the autopsy. The clothing Oswald was wearing might have made Oswald look heavier, or people don`t guess weight that well.. Receding hairline might have made Oswald look older. All in all, not bad.
What is most interesting to me is that the two sources in closest agreement to each other were... the 12:44 suspect description... and Sawyer's unidentified witness. A perfect match. Conclusion: Sawyer's unID'd witness was the source for
as did everyone else in Dallas at the time, apparently.Sawyer's unID'd witness was seen fleeing the depository.
Officer Baker — who saw Oswald briefly in the Depository (although, of course, some conspiracy theorists question even that) estimated Oswald’s age, height, and weight thusly:dcw
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm “The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.”
Oswald even admitted this interaction with a police officer (clearly Baker) in interrogation sessions. For example:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm
Of course James Bookhout must have been lying, and really didn't care if the police arrested the right man for the murder of Officer Tippit and for the assassination of the President of the United States. Bookhout only wanted to frame Oswald,
Paine’s testimony on that point:Even his wife tried to frame him, and admitted Oswald owned a rifle that he kept stored within a blanket in the Paine garage. She admitted this on the afternoon of the assassination, when police first arrived at the Paine home. Here is Ruth
with the police or in any way involved in the day's events. I asked them to come in. They said they wanted to search the house. I asked if they had a warrant. They said they didn't. They said they could get the sheriff out here right away with one if I— quote —
Mrs. PAINE - I said nothing. I think I just dropped my jaw. And the man in front said by way of explanation "We have Lee Oswald in custody. He is charged with shooting an officer." This is the first I had any idea that Lee might be in trouble
things which belonged to the Oswalds. Marina and I went with two or three of these police officers to the garage.They then did search the house. I directed them to the fact that most of the Oswald's things were in storage in my garage and showed where the garage was, and to the room where Marina and the baby had stayed where they would find the other
had seen a portion of it--had looked into--she indicated the blanket roll on the floor.Mr. JENNER - How many police officers were there?
Mrs. PAINE - There were six altogether, and they were busy in various parts of the house. The officer asked me in the garage did Lee Oswald have any weapons or guns. I said no, and translated the question to Marina, and she said yes; that she
that he had stored in here.Mr. JENNER - Was the blanket roll on the floor at that time?
Mrs. PAINE - She indicated the blanket roll on the floor very close to where I was standing. As she told me about it I stepped onto the blanket roll.
Mr. JENNER - This might be helpful. You had shaped that up yesterday and I will just put it on the floor.
Mrs. PAINE - And she indicated to me that she had peered into this roll and saw a portion of what she took to be a gun she knew her husband to have, a rifle. And I then translated this to the officers that she knew that her husband had a gun
of the building. So, JD Tippit, according to the Official Story, accosted Oswald on the basis of a description of a man outside of the building running away and carrying a rifle. Coincidentally, he looked just like Oswald!Mr. JENNER - Were you standing on the blanket when you advised-- Mrs. PAINE - When I translated. I then stepped off of it and the officer picked it up in the middle and it bent so.
Mr. JENNER - It hung limp just as it now hangs limp in your hand? Mrs. PAINE - And at this moment I felt this man was in very deep trouble and may have done--
— unquote —
Of course, since Oswald was innocent of all charges, it follows that Ruth Paine must be lying to frame Oswald as well.
Everybody must have been, since Oswald was innocent.
Q.E.D.But more importantly, it is a known fact that the description of the suspect given out on the radio came from Sawyer who was relaying what an "unknown" witness told him of a man with a rifle running from the building, a man with a rifle outside
Moellenhoff? Discuss. Shove up your ass. Rinse . Repeat.1. Is it more important? You need to establish that. Begged Question - LOGICAL FALLACY #1.
2. Red Herring, AKA change of subject - LOGICAL FALLACY #2.
Is Willis making much ado about nothing?
Let’s discuss.
Then we can return to your hearsay account while you ignore what the person on the scene and the dispatcher who spoke with Sawyer said.I don't need to establish anything. Produce your documents that support whatever the fuck you are saying. Then it can be properly ignored. Do you really think that Jack Tatum is a reliable witness? Do you really think that Dale Myers talked to Dr.
You just told me you would ignore the documents I would provide, so I won't waste my time.
You're welcome.Coward Sienzant runs away again. There's nothing new on that.
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