"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's >markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) and
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) and
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked up by
— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked up by
— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations, or admit that the WCR simply lied.)A typo and a lie are two different things.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) and Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.Chuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked up
notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations, or admit that the WCR simply lied.)A typo and a lie are two different things.
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle had
To argue otherwise is to argue:photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) and Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.Chuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked up
notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations, or admit that the WCR simply lied.)A typo and a lie are two different things.
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle had
To argue otherwise is to argue:photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) and Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.Chuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked up
had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?But, apparently, the photography of the discovery shows no clip present.
Shouldn't you have an explanation for that to support your assertion?
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) and Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.Chuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked up
had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) and Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.Chuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked up
had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated. Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked
had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:08:37 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:50:31 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated. Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there. Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were
rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
What do the other frames show? The image you post shows the magazine at a right angle to the camera. Funny you would post an image that doesn’t allow a conclusion.How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
No, it shows no clip protruding from the rifle. That’s something entirely different. The normal position of the clip is within the magazine. The photograph doesn’t establish a missing clip, it is entirely consistent with a clip within the weapon.Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?But, apparently, the photography of the discovery shows no clip present.
I read a long time ago that the clip is supposed to eject when the last round is loaded but it isShouldn't you have an explanation for that to support your assertion?See above.
common for it not to do so. I can't cite a specific source because I don't remember where I had
read that.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:50:31 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated. Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked
had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
What do the other frames show? The image you post shows the magazine at a right angle to the camera. Funny you would post an image that doesn’t allow a conclusion.How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
No, it shows no clip protruding from the rifle. That’s something entirely different. The normal position of the clip is within the magazine. The photograph doesn’t establish a missing clip, it is entirely consistent with a clip within the weapon.Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?But, apparently, the photography of the discovery shows no clip present.
Shouldn't you have an explanation for that to support your assertion?See above.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated. Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were picked
had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Again, to answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle had
To argue otherwise is to argue:photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:16:13 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated. Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there. Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were
rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Again, to answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
other weapons in the world),How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?He’s reduced to arguing maybe this, maybe that. Anything to get Oswald off.
The evidence is the clip was in the Carcano when removed from the Depository. That’s fully consistent with the clip being in the Depository when the shots were fired.
When the evidence further indicates:
1. That three shots were fired from that Carcano (three shells at the snipers nest window, two large fragments found in the limo, and one nearly whole bullet found at Parkland Hospital — with all six linked to that Carcano to the exclusion of all
2. That the shots were fired in fewer than ten seconds,
3. You can’t fire three shots from that Carcano in ten seconds without a clip
Then the only reasonable conclusion is the clip was in the weapon when it was fired during the assassination. And hence, there’s no mystery nor problem here.
Feel free to reach for any unreasonable conclusion you wish.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated. Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there. Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were
rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you explain that?
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:28:15 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:16:13 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there. Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were
rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the
be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to
had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Again, to answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
other weapons in the world),How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?He’s reduced to arguing maybe this, maybe that. Anything to get Oswald off.
The evidence is the clip was in the Carcano when removed from the Depository. That’s fully consistent with the clip being in the Depository when the shots were fired.
When the evidence further indicates:
1. That three shots were fired from that Carcano (three shells at the snipers nest window, two large fragments found in the limo, and one nearly whole bullet found at Parkland Hospital — with all six linked to that Carcano to the exclusion of all
2. That the shots were fired in fewer than ten seconds,
3. You can’t fire three shots from that Carcano in ten seconds without a clip
Then the only reasonable conclusion is the clip was in the weapon when it was fired during the assassination. And hence, there’s no mystery nor problem here.
Feel free to reach for any unreasonable conclusion you wish.So, you have no explanation for the clip not being on the rifle when Lt. Day first examined it. Okay. Just asking.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:17:53 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there. Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were
rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the
be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to
hands about?How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words wringing mySince you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you explain that?
No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop out at somepoint, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.
What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:20:30 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
I read a long time ago that the clip is supposed to eject when the last round is loaded but it isIf that's what happened, then wouldn't "Oswald's" clip be by the window with the expended shells? But your explanation is probably good enough for Hank, so, well done!
common for it not to do so. I can't cite a specific source because I don't remember where I had
read that.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:37:03 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:17:53 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were
rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the
be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to
hands about?How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words wringing mySince you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you explain that?
some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop out at
What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?I'm not arguing for anything,
just asking you why the clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun.
But if you'd rather not talk about that, then fine. I certainly can see why you don't.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:55:09 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:37:03 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:17:53 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were
the rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from
to be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day
hands about?How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words wringing mySince you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you explain that?
some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop out at
Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle.You are arguing for the "clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun." But if true, how does it get in the gun to be photographed a short time later?What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?I'm not arguing for anything,
I offered the best explanation I could come up with.
You ignored it and have not offered one of your own.
just asking you why the clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun.Begged Question Logical Fallacy:
The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in question.
You're assuming in your point above the clip is not present in the weapon, when that's exactly what you have to prove.reasonable person to conclude the reasonable answer is the clip was in the weapon at the time of firing, at the time of discovery, and when removed from the building. Ergo, as I said before, there’s no mystery nor problem here.
You haven't established the clip was not present. You've assumed it. As I point out now for the third time:
-- Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?
-- Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.
But if you'd rather not talk about that, then fine. I certainly can see why you don't.Straw man argument. Where did I say I'd rather not talk about it?
I've pointed out the problems with your argument above in multiple posts, including that you offer no explanation for how the clip got into the weapon when photographed, if not in the weapon when fired. I've pointed out the evidence that leads a
If you want to pretend you still can't figure it out, fine. That works for me.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:55:09 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:37:03 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:17:53 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They were
the rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from
to be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day
hands about?How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words wringing mySince you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you explain that?
some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop out at
Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle.You are arguing for the "clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun." But if true, how does it get in the gun to be photographed a short time later?What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?I'm not arguing for anything,
I offered the best explanation I could come up with.
You ignored it and have not offered one of your own.
just asking you why the clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun.Begged Question Logical Fallacy:
The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in question.
You're assuming in your point above the clip is not present in the weapon, when that's exactly what you have to prove.reasonable person to conclude the reasonable answer is the clip was in the weapon at the time of firing, at the time of discovery, and when removed from the building. Ergo, as I said before, there’s no mystery nor problem here.
You haven't established the clip was not present. You've assumed it. As I point out now for the third time:
-- Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?
-- Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.
But if you'd rather not talk about that, then fine. I certainly can see why you don't.Straw man argument. Where did I say I'd rather not talk about it?
I've pointed out the problems with your argument above in multiple posts, including that you offer no explanation for how the clip got into the weapon when photographed, if not in the weapon when fired. I've pointed out the evidence that leads a
If you want to pretend you still can't figure it out, fine. That works for me.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:07:18 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:were picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 9:24:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:55:09 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:37:03 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:17:53 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They
from the rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed
Day to be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for
that?How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you explain
wringing my hands about?Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words
at some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop out
question. Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle.You are arguing for the "clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun."What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?I'm not arguing for anything,
But if true, how does it get in the gun to be photographed a short time later?
I offered the best explanation I could come up with.
You ignored it and have not offered one of your own.
just asking you why the clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun.Begged Question Logical Fallacy:
The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in
reasonable person to conclude the reasonable answer is the clip was in the weapon at the time of firing, at the time of discovery, and when removed from the building. Ergo, as I said before, there’s no mystery nor problem here.You're assuming in your point above the clip is not present in the weapon, when that's exactly what you have to prove.
You haven't established the clip was not present. You've assumed it. As I point out now for the third time:
-- Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?
-- Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.
But if you'd rather not talk about that, then fine. I certainly can see why you don't.Straw man argument. Where did I say I'd rather not talk about it?
I've pointed out the problems with your argument above in multiple posts, including that you offer no explanation for how the clip got into the weapon when photographed, if not in the weapon when fired. I've pointed out the evidence that leads a
notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').See the below. Don’t like my theory?If you want to pretend you still can't figure it out, fine. That works for me.What explanation did you offer?
Offer a better one.
I’ve asked for yours, you refuse to go there.
== quote ==
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle had
To argue otherwise is to argue:photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?
== unquote ==
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 9:24:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:were picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:55:09 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:37:03 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:17:53 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They
the rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from
Day to be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for
my hands about?How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words wringingSince you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you explain that?
at some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop out
Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle.You are arguing for the "clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun."What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?I'm not arguing for anything,
But if true, how does it get in the gun to be photographed a short time later?
I offered the best explanation I could come up with.
You ignored it and have not offered one of your own.
just asking you why the clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun.Begged Question Logical Fallacy:
The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in question.
reasonable person to conclude the reasonable answer is the clip was in the weapon at the time of firing, at the time of discovery, and when removed from the building. Ergo, as I said before, there’s no mystery nor problem here.You're assuming in your point above the clip is not present in the weapon, when that's exactly what you have to prove.
You haven't established the clip was not present. You've assumed it. As I point out now for the third time:
-- Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?
-- Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.
But if you'd rather not talk about that, then fine. I certainly can see why you don't.Straw man argument. Where did I say I'd rather not talk about it?
I've pointed out the problems with your argument above in multiple posts, including that you offer no explanation for how the clip got into the weapon when photographed, if not in the weapon when fired. I've pointed out the evidence that leads a
If you want to pretend you still can't figure it out, fine. That works for me.What explanation did you offer?
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 9:24:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:were picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:55:09 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:37:03 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:17:53 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window. They
the rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from
Day to be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for
my hands about?How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words wringingSince you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you explain that?
at some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop out
Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle.You are arguing for the "clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun."What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?I'm not arguing for anything,
But if true, how does it get in the gun to be photographed a short time later?
I offered the best explanation I could come up with.
You ignored it and have not offered one of your own.
just asking you why the clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun.Begged Question Logical Fallacy:
The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in question.
reasonable person to conclude the reasonable answer is the clip was in the weapon at the time of firing, at the time of discovery, and when removed from the building. Ergo, as I said before, there’s no mystery nor problem here.You're assuming in your point above the clip is not present in the weapon, when that's exactly what you have to prove.
You haven't established the clip was not present. You've assumed it. As I point out now for the third time:
-- Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?
-- Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.
But if you'd rather not talk about that, then fine. I certainly can see why you don't.Straw man argument. Where did I say I'd rather not talk about it?
I've pointed out the problems with your argument above in multiple posts, including that you offer no explanation for how the clip got into the weapon when photographed, if not in the weapon when fired. I've pointed out the evidence that leads a
If you want to pretend you still can't figure it out, fine. That works for me.Are you saying that the clip was there when this photograph was taken? https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:50:43 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:They were picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:07:18 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 9:24:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:55:09 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:37:03 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:17:53 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window.
from the rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed
for Day to be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time
that?How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you explain
wringing my hands about?Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words
out at some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop
question. Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle.You are arguing for the "clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun."What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?I'm not arguing for anything,
But if true, how does it get in the gun to be photographed a short time later?
I offered the best explanation I could come up with.
You ignored it and have not offered one of your own.
just asking you why the clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun.Begged Question Logical Fallacy:
The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in
reasonable person to conclude the reasonable answer is the clip was in the weapon at the time of firing, at the time of discovery, and when removed from the building. Ergo, as I said before, there’s no mystery nor problem here.You're assuming in your point above the clip is not present in the weapon, when that's exactly what you have to prove.
You haven't established the clip was not present. You've assumed it. As I point out now for the third time:
-- Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?
-- Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.
But if you'd rather not talk about that, then fine. I certainly can see why you don't.Straw man argument. Where did I say I'd rather not talk about it?
I've pointed out the problems with your argument above in multiple posts, including that you offer no explanation for how the clip got into the weapon when photographed, if not in the weapon when fired. I've pointed out the evidence that leads a
had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').See the below. Don’t like my theory?If you want to pretend you still can't figure it out, fine. That works for me.What explanation did you offer?
Offer a better one.
I’ve asked for yours, you refuse to go there.
== quote ==
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?You said you offered an explanation. What was it?
== unquote ==
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 11:10:22 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:me.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:50:43 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:07:18 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 9:24:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:55:09 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:37:03 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:17:53 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for
They were picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window.
from the rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed
for Day to be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time
that?How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you explain
wringing my hands about?Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words
out at some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop
question. Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle.You are arguing for the "clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun."What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?I'm not arguing for anything,
But if true, how does it get in the gun to be photographed a short time later?
I offered the best explanation I could come up with.
You ignored it and have not offered one of your own.
just asking you why the clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun.Begged Question Logical Fallacy:
The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in
a reasonable person to conclude the reasonable answer is the clip was in the weapon at the time of firing, at the time of discovery, and when removed from the building. Ergo, as I said before, there’s no mystery nor problem here.You're assuming in your point above the clip is not present in the weapon, when that's exactly what you have to prove.
You haven't established the clip was not present. You've assumed it. As I point out now for the third time:
-- Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?
-- Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.
But if you'd rather not talk about that, then fine. I certainly can see why you don't.Straw man argument. Where did I say I'd rather not talk about it?
I've pointed out the problems with your argument above in multiple posts, including that you offer no explanation for how the clip got into the weapon when photographed, if not in the weapon when fired. I've pointed out the evidence that leads
had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').See the below. Don’t like my theory?If you want to pretend you still can't figure it out, fine. That works for me.What explanation did you offer?
Offer a better one.
I’ve asked for yours, you refuse to go there.
== quote ==
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the rifle
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
building, purpose a better one.How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
It is above, starting with the words, “To argue otherwise is to argue…”. Third time explaining this. How many more times will you ask? If you don’t like my alternate explanation for the clip photographed within the Carcano when Day exits theDo you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?You said you offered an explanation. What was it?
== unquote ==
It’s either someone brought a clip to the building so they could frame Oswald or the clip was in the building (and hence, within the rifle) all along. A pity six decades of CTs dealing with the evidence couldn’t figure that out.is fired.”
Also, you started a separate thread on the same subject of the supposed missing clip here:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/WC7tk2tYuAE
And you apparently concede the point here: “Well, that's all Hank had to do. Pity he's not as clever as you. Yes, at least from that angle, the clip cannot be seen until it falls out. And it falls out when the last cartridge is chambered, before it
But of course, you wouldn’t be a CT if you didn’t still didn’t believe that Oswald did not shoot JFK from the Depository, so you immediately change the subject to the condition of the weapon and Oswald’s shooting ability (a red herring logicalfallacy) from the clip issue Ben initially raised:
“… So, if it was working properly, then it should have fallen out by the window. But the gun is an old piece of crap, so maybe it stayed put...until Day carried it out of the building and then it peaked out a bit. That must be Hank's explanation, Iimagine. Amazing such a shitty old gun in the hands of a mediocre marksman could accomplish what trained experts with the thing fixed up couldn't.“
And you don’t have to imagine that is my explanation. I told you that here:hands about?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/4-nD2oIxfg8/m/82GQmZaxAQAJ “Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words wringing my
No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop out at somepoint, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.
What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?”
On Wednesday, August 30, 2023 at 5:46:56 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:me.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 11:10:22 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:50:43 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:07:18 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 9:24:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:55:09 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:37:03 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:17:53 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type for
They were picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the window.
removed from the rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he
time for Day to be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in
explain that?How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you
wringing my hands about?Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words
drop out at some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to
question. Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle.You are arguing for the "clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun."What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?I'm not arguing for anything,
But if true, how does it get in the gun to be photographed a short time later?
I offered the best explanation I could come up with.
You ignored it and have not offered one of your own.
just asking you why the clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun.Begged Question Logical Fallacy:
The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in
leads a reasonable person to conclude the reasonable answer is the clip was in the weapon at the time of firing, at the time of discovery, and when removed from the building. Ergo, as I said before, there’s no mystery nor problem here.You're assuming in your point above the clip is not present in the weapon, when that's exactly what you have to prove.
You haven't established the clip was not present. You've assumed it. As I point out now for the third time:
-- Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?
-- Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.
But if you'd rather not talk about that, then fine. I certainly can see why you don't.Straw man argument. Where did I say I'd rather not talk about it?
I've pointed out the problems with your argument above in multiple posts, including that you offer no explanation for how the clip got into the weapon when photographed, if not in the weapon when fired. I've pointed out the evidence that
rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').See the below. Don’t like my theory?If you want to pretend you still can't figure it out, fine. That works for me.What explanation did you offer?
Offer a better one.
I’ve asked for yours, you refuse to go there.
== quote ==
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the
photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to be
building, purpose a better one.How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
It is above, starting with the words, “To argue otherwise is to argue…”. Third time explaining this. How many more times will you ask? If you don’t like my alternate explanation for the clip photographed within the Carcano when Day exits theDo you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?You said you offered an explanation. What was it?
== unquote ==
is fired.”It’s either someone brought a clip to the building so they could frame Oswald or the clip was in the building (and hence, within the rifle) all along. A pity six decades of CTs dealing with the evidence couldn’t figure that out.
Also, you started a separate thread on the same subject of the supposed missing clip here:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/WC7tk2tYuAE
And you apparently concede the point here: “Well, that's all Hank had to do. Pity he's not as clever as you. Yes, at least from that angle, the clip cannot be seen until it falls out. And it falls out when the last cartridge is chambered, before it
logical fallacy) from the clip issue Ben initially raised:But of course, you wouldn’t be a CT if you didn’t still didn’t believe that Oswald did not shoot JFK from the Depository, so you immediately change the subject to the condition of the weapon and Oswald’s shooting ability (a red herring
I imagine. Amazing such a shitty old gun in the hands of a mediocre marksman could accomplish what trained experts with the thing fixed up couldn't.““… So, if it was working properly, then it should have fallen out by the window. But the gun is an old piece of crap, so maybe it stayed put...until Day carried it out of the building and then it peaked out a bit. That must be Hank's explanation,
my hands about?And you don’t have to imagine that is my explanation. I told you that here:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/4-nD2oIxfg8/m/82GQmZaxAQAJ
“Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words wringing
some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop out at
me what you could not, that the clip is not normally visible until it ejects from the rifle. I don't think you ever said that. But you say so much, that maybe it got lost in all your bullshit. And now you're upset that Gil can easily explain stuff whichWhat exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?”I was not arguing for anything. You linked to a photo which showed the clip. I saw photos of Day first examining the rifle, and your clip was not visible. I pointed that out. I had no theory. It's just the evidence. And then Gil was able to explain to
On Wednesday, August 30, 2023 at 6:20:38 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:for me.
On Wednesday, August 30, 2023 at 5:46:56 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 11:10:22 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:50:43 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 10:07:18 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 9:24:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:55:09 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:37:03 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:17:53 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:12:53 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:06:08 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:35:48 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:45:32 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:35:33 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:06:55 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
"When the rifle was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building
it contained a clip which bore the letters "SMI" (the manufacturer's
markings) and the number "952" (possibly a part number or the
manufacturer's code number)." (WCR 555)
The statement references the testimony of Captain Fritz (4H 205) andChuckle. The correct citation for J.C.Day is 4H260. You pretend an error in citation is a lie.
Lt. Day (4H 258). In neither reference does the clip appear. The WC
has simply lied - using citations that do *not* support their claim.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/html/WC_Vol4_0134b.htm
Here’s what Day said about the clip:
— quote —
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; this is the record I made of the gun when I took it back office. Now, the gun did not leave my possession.
Mr. BELIN. From the time it was found at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I took the gun myself and retained possession, took it to the office where I dictated----
Mr. BELIN. Could you just read into the record what you dictated.
Mr. DAY. To my secretary. She wrote on the typewriter: "4 x 18, coated, Ordinance Optics, Inc., Hollywood, California, 010 Japan. OSC inside a cloverleaf design."
Mr. BELIN. What did that have reference to?
Mr. DAY. That was stamped on the scopic sight on top of the gun. On the gun itself, "6.5 caliber C-2766, 1940 made in Italy." That was what was on the gun. I dictated certain other stuff, other information, for her to type
window. They were picked up by Detective Sims and witnessed by Lieutenant Day and Studebaker. The clip is stamped 'SMI, 9 x 2.'Mr. BELIN. Well, you might just as well dictate the rest there.
Mr. DAY. "When bolt opened one live round was in the barrel. No prints are on the live round. Captain Fritz and Lieutenant Day opened the barrel. Captain Fritz has the live round. Three spent hulls were found under the
removed from the rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').— unquote—
There are many more problems with this alleged clip - but it would
take a separate post to detail. See Silvia Meagher's Accessories After
the Fact for one discussion of the problems of evidence for this clip.
There are no problems with the clip. Photos taken of J.C.Day taking the clip back to the crime lab show the clip in the rifle.
To answer your question, Yes. Any other answer is not consistent with the evidence.You can see one such photo here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htmBut is there a clip on the rifle when Day first finds it? https://postimg.cc/crYXJ4gX
(Watch folks, as not a *SINGLE* believer will produce these citations,A typo and a lie are two different things.
or admit that the WCR simply lied.)
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he
time for Day to be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in
explain that?How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?Do you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?This photo at the time of discovery seems to show an empty hole where your beloved clip is supposed to be.
https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz
Surely you feel the need to explain that. Right?
Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.But your own link shows the clip sticking out of the bottom of the gun. https://www.jfk-assassination.net/factoid6.htm
So, you yourself depend upon being able to see the clip in a photo when Day is walking out of the building, but that same clip is not present in the photography when Day discovers the weapon. https://postimg.cc/ZB3YG9jz How do you
wringing my hands about?Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words
drop out at some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to
question. Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle.You are arguing for the "clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun."What exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?I'm not arguing for anything,
But if true, how does it get in the gun to be photographed a short time later?
I offered the best explanation I could come up with.
You ignored it and have not offered one of your own.
just asking you why the clip is not present when Lt. Day examines the gun.Begged Question Logical Fallacy:
The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in
leads a reasonable person to conclude the reasonable answer is the clip was in the weapon at the time of firing, at the time of discovery, and when removed from the building. Ergo, as I said before, there’s no mystery nor problem here.You're assuming in your point above the clip is not present in the weapon, when that's exactly what you have to prove.
You haven't established the clip was not present. You've assumed it. As I point out now for the third time:
-- Have you established the clip should show within the rifle when inserted properly within the weapon?
-- Since you haven’t done that, your argument is based on your assumption, not any facts.
But if you'd rather not talk about that, then fine. I certainly can see why you don't.Straw man argument. Where did I say I'd rather not talk about it?
I've pointed out the problems with your argument above in multiple posts, including that you offer no explanation for how the clip got into the weapon when photographed, if not in the weapon when fired. I've pointed out the evidence that
rifle had notations on it that are consistent with the clip in the archives ('SMI, 9 x 2.').See the below. Don’t like my theory?If you want to pretend you still can't figure it out, fine. That works for me.What explanation did you offer?
Offer a better one.
I’ve asked for yours, you refuse to go there.
== quote ==
Photos establish there was a clip in the rifle removed by J. C. Day from the Texas School Book Depository. J. C. Day noted that the rifle he took from the Depository bore the serial number C2766, and that the clip removed he removed from the
be photographed with the clip in the Carcano when he left the building.To argue otherwise is to argue:
1. Someone planted Oswald’s Carcano but overlooked planting a clip in the rifle, thereby making three shots in eight seconds impossible, exposing the conspiracy, AND
2. Someone in the Depository, upon the discovery of Oswald’s Carcano sans clip, realized the problem and called up someone who just happened to have a spare Carcano clip laying around, and they rushed it to the Depository in time for Day to
the building, purpose a better one.How bizarre is that theory? Not bizarre enough for some people, apparently.
It is above, starting with the words, “To argue otherwise is to argue…”. Third time explaining this. How many more times will you ask? If you don’t like my alternate explanation for the clip photographed within the Carcano when Day exitsDo you really imagine *that* happened, rather than the more realistic scenario that the clip was in Oswald’s Carcano all along?You said you offered an explanation. What was it?
== unquote ==
it is fired.”It’s either someone brought a clip to the building so they could frame Oswald or the clip was in the building (and hence, within the rifle) all along. A pity six decades of CTs dealing with the evidence couldn’t figure that out.
Also, you started a separate thread on the same subject of the supposed missing clip here:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/WC7tk2tYuAE
And you apparently concede the point here: “Well, that's all Hank had to do. Pity he's not as clever as you. Yes, at least from that angle, the clip cannot be seen until it falls out. And it falls out when the last cartridge is chambered, before
logical fallacy) from the clip issue Ben initially raised:But of course, you wouldn’t be a CT if you didn’t still didn’t believe that Oswald did not shoot JFK from the Depository, so you immediately change the subject to the condition of the weapon and Oswald’s shooting ability (a red herring
explanation, I imagine. Amazing such a shitty old gun in the hands of a mediocre marksman could accomplish what trained experts with the thing fixed up couldn't.““… So, if it was working properly, then it should have fallen out by the window. But the gun is an old piece of crap, so maybe it stayed put...until Day carried it out of the building and then it peaked out a bit. That must be Hank's
my hands about?And you don’t have to imagine that is my explanation. I told you that here:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/4-nD2oIxfg8/m/82GQmZaxAQAJ
“Asked and answered dozens of times. My toaster is supposed to pop up the toast when done. And it works just fine when new. But if it doesn’t function properly after 20 years, is there a mystery worthy of thousands or millions of words wringing
some point, but was still partially stuck in the weapon when photographed.No. Ditto with the clip. It didn’t drop down and out at the sniper’s nest window because it was a 20-year-old war-surplus weapon with a 20-year-old war-surplus clip. The evidence indicates it was stuck in the weapon, and started to drop out at
to me what you could not, that the clip is not normally visible until it ejects from the rifle. I don't think you ever said that. But you say so much, that maybe it got lost in all your bullshit. And now you're upset that Gil can easily explain stuffWhat exactly are you arguing for? There was no clip, and someone brought one to the TSBD after the assassination, or what?”I was not arguing for anything. You linked to a photo which showed the clip. I saw photos of Day first examining the rifle, and your clip was not visible. I pointed that out. I had no theory. It's just the evidence. And then Gil was able to explain
You ask three times for the explanation, and three times you ignore it and fail to offer a better one. The evidence showed the clip was visible in the rifle when Day emerged from the building holding that rifle. Ergo, it was in the rifle when the riflewas in the building. Not exactly sure why it took six decades to resolve that issue, but I’m glad we finally buried one CT talking point.
Or did we? The Vegas Over/Under line is six weeks before some CT re-introduces this subject.
I’m taking the Under.
But, apparently, the photography of the discovery shows no clip present.
No, it shows no clip protruding from the rifle.
I read a long time ago that the clip is supposed to eject when the last round is loaded but it is
common for it not to do so. I can't cite a specific source because I don't remember where I had
read that.
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