• Provable Lies Of The Warren Commission - #4 - Just For Coward Corbutt

    From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 22 06:48:35 2023
    "The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his
    clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee,
    Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the
    northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from
    where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic
    edition--teacher's edition.
    Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the
    plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and
    I just noticed it laying over there.
    Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
    Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or
    6 inches, something like that.
    Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.
    Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's
    the stairs right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs
    this way going up and here's the and it was laying fight in here by
    the cards--there are about four or five cards, I guess, running in
    front of it--just laying between the part you go down and the part you
    go up.
    Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway
    down?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)

    BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the
    location of the three cartridges?
    Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes
    longer--after Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there,
    Captain Fritz picked up the cartridges, began to examine them, of
    course I left that particular area. By that time there was a number of
    officers up there. The floor was covered with officers. And we were
    searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. (3H 289)

    The WC simply lied again, when trying to disguise the fact that the
    many policemen that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement)
    couldn't find a clipboard that Kaiser clearly states was in plain
    sight, and not hidden at all. The clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an
    entire working week went by before it was "discovered". The Warren
    Commission is caught in an obvious lie here... is there any LNT'ers
    that will simply admit this?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Tue Aug 22 10:12:19 2023
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:48:38 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    "The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee,
    Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the
    northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from
    where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic
    edition--teacher's edition.
    Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the
    plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and
    I just noticed it laying over there.
    Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
    Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or
    6 inches, something like that.
    Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.
    Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's
    the stairs right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs
    this way going up and here's the and it was laying fight in here by
    the cards--there are about four or five cards, I guess, running in
    front of it--just laying between the part you go down and the part you
    go up.
    Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway
    down?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)

    BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the location of the three cartridges?
    Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes
    longer--after Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there,
    Captain Fritz picked up the cartridges, began to examine them, of
    course I left that particular area. By that time there was a number of officers up there. The floor was covered with officers. And we were searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. (3H 289)

    The WC simply lied again, when trying to disguise the fact that the
    many policemen that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) couldn't find a clipboard

    Only an idiot would think they were looking for a clipboard.

    Or a troll.

    that Kaiser clearly states was in plain
    sight, and not hidden at all. The clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an
    entire working week went by before it was "discovered". The Warren Commission is caught in an obvious lie here... is there any LNT'ers
    that will simply admit this?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 22 10:27:41 2023
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirslick@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't
    get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Tue Aug 22 11:23:38 2023
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 12:27:45 PM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    So according to you there's a small chance the super-secret hit squad sniper team gang wasn't aiming for JFK?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't
    get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to chuckschuyler123@gmail.com on Tue Aug 22 11:51:18 2023
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 11:23:38 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler <chuckschuyler123@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 12:27:45?PM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    So according to you...

    If you're going to molest your own grandmother, try to be discreet
    about it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to Admin@ConspiracyJFKForum.com on Wed Aug 23 08:59:15 2023
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 06:48:35 -0700, Ben Holmes
    <Admin@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

    "The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his >clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee,
    Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the
    northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from
    where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic
    edition--teacher's edition.
    Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the
    plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and
    I just noticed it laying over there.
    Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
    Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or
    6 inches, something like that.
    Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.
    Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's
    the stairs right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs
    this way going up and here's the and it was laying fight in here by
    the cards--there are about four or five cards, I guess, running in
    front of it--just laying between the part you go down and the part you
    go up.
    Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway
    down?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)

    BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the >location of the three cartridges?
    Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes
    longer--after Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there,
    Captain Fritz picked up the cartridges, began to examine them, of
    course I left that particular area. By that time there was a number of >officers up there. The floor was covered with officers. And we were >searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. (3H 289)

    The WC simply lied again, when trying to disguise the fact that the
    many policemen that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement)
    couldn't find a clipboard that Kaiser clearly states was in plain
    sight, and not hidden at all. The clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an
    entire working week went by before it was "discovered". The Warren
    Commission is caught in an obvious lie here... is there any LNT'ers
    that will simply admit this?


    Not a SINGLE believer was able to defend the WCR's lie proven here.

    And that tells the tale.

    Corbutt lost again...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Wed Aug 23 13:59:52 2023
    On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 11:59:22 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 06:48:35 -0700, Ben Holmes <Ad...@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

    "The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his >clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee,
    Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the
    northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from
    where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic
    edition--teacher's edition.
    Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the
    plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and
    I just noticed it laying over there.
    Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
    Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or
    6 inches, something like that.
    Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.
    Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's
    the stairs right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs >this way going up and here's the and it was laying fight in here by
    the cards--there are about four or five cards, I guess, running in
    front of it--just laying between the part you go down and the part you
    go up.
    Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway
    down?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)

    BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the >location of the three cartridges?
    Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes >longer--after Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there,
    Captain Fritz picked up the cartridges, began to examine them, of
    course I left that particular area. By that time there was a number of >officers up there. The floor was covered with officers. And we were >searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. (3H 289)

    The WC simply lied again, when trying to disguise the fact that the
    many policemen that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) >couldn't find a clipboard that Kaiser clearly states was in plain
    sight, and not hidden at all. The clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an >entire working week went by before it was "discovered". The Warren >Commission is caught in an obvious lie here... is there any LNT'ers
    that will simply admit this?
    Not a SINGLE believer was able to defend the WCR's lie proven here.

    You refuse to show one.

    And that tells the tale.

    Corbutt lost again...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 23 14:03:42 2023
    On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 13:59:52 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirslick@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't
    get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Fri Aug 25 04:44:32 2023
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:27:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't
    get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.

    Non sequitur. This has nothing to do With the subject you raised above. Just another logical fallacy by Ben.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Fri Aug 25 04:42:07 2023
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:48:38 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    "The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee,
    Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the
    northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from
    where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic
    edition--teacher's edition.
    Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the
    plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and
    I just noticed it laying over there.
    Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
    Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or
    6 inches, something like that.
    Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.
    Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's
    the stairs right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs
    this way going up and here's the and it was laying fight in here by
    the cards--there are about four or five cards, I guess, running in
    front of it--just laying between the part you go down and the part you
    go up.
    Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway
    down?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)

    BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the location of the three cartridges?
    Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes
    longer--after Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there,
    Captain Fritz picked up the cartridges, began to examine them, of
    course I left that particular area. By that time there was a number of officers up there. The floor was covered with officers. And we were searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. (3H 289)

    The WC simply lied again, when trying to disguise the fact that the
    many policemen that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) couldn't find a clipboard that Kaiser clearly states was in plain
    sight, and not hidden at all. The clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an
    entire working week went by before it was "discovered". The Warren Commission is caught in an obvious lie here... is there any LNT'ers
    that will simply admit this?

    Ben is up to his old tricks again, doing yet another Fringe Reset, where he simply ignores everything that was discussed previously and restarts the conversation from the beginning once more, apparently hoping for a different outcome.

    This was discussed here, more than two years ago: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/HOoo2vXZq5s/m/vMw8CHgpAgAJ

    Ben pretends that discussion never happened. We

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Fri Aug 25 04:46:33 2023
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 2:51:21 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 11:23:38 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler <chucksch...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 12:27:45?PM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    So according to you...

    If you're going to molest your own grandmother, try to be discreet
    about it.

    Ben deletes the response and issues an ad hominem attack on the poster. It’s also a non sequitur. This has nothing to do with the subject Ben raised above. Just another logical fallacy by Ben.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to Hank Sienzant on Fri Aug 25 05:06:17 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 7:54:39 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    You failed. Raising the same issue after it’s been debunked and pretending it’s still an open issue is the very definition of a Fringe Reset.

    ON OSWALD'S CLIPBOARD BEING HIDDEN:

    The Report concluded:
    "Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    But the evidence said:

    The clipboard was lying on the floor when found with no cartons around it. https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/WC_Vol6_343-kaiser-clipboard.gif

    That makes it a provable lie.

    GAME-SET-MATCH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Fri Aug 25 04:54:37 2023
    On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 11:59:22 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 06:48:35 -0700, Ben Holmes <Ad...@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

    "The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his >clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee,
    Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the
    northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from
    where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic
    edition--teacher's edition.
    Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the
    plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and
    I just noticed it laying over there.
    Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
    Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or
    6 inches, something like that.
    Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.
    Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's
    the stairs right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs >this way going up and here's the and it was laying fight in here by
    the cards--there are about four or five cards, I guess, running in
    front of it--just laying between the part you go down and the part you
    go up.
    Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway
    down?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)

    BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the >location of the three cartridges?
    Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes >longer--after Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there,
    Captain Fritz picked up the cartridges, began to examine them, of
    course I left that particular area. By that time there was a number of >officers up there. The floor was covered with officers. And we were >searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. (3H 289)

    The WC simply lied again, when trying to disguise the fact that the
    many policemen that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) >couldn't find a clipboard that Kaiser clearly states was in plain
    sight, and not hidden at all. The clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an >entire working week went by before it was "discovered". The Warren >Commission is caught in an obvious lie here... is there any LNT'ers
    that will simply admit this?
    Not a SINGLE believer was able to defend the WCR's lie proven here.

    That’s false. You’re still ignoring the discussion from over two years ago. You could post this every month, every week, every day, and as long as you pretend this was never discussed and insist on a Fringe Reset with every new thread, it will remain
    false.

    You are also begging the question that it was a “proven lie”. You’ve claimed it was, but you have not established that.

    See this thread: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/HOoo2vXZq5s/m/vMw8CHgpAgAJ




    And that tells the tale.

    Corbutt lost again...

    You failed. Raising the same issue after it’s been debunked and pretending it’s still an open issue is the very definition of a Fringe Reset.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to hsienzant@aol.com on Fri Aug 25 07:24:19 2023
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 04:46:33 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 2:51:21?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 11:23:38 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler
    <chucksch...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 12:27:45?PM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    So according to you...

    If you're going to molest your own grandmother, try to be discreet
    about it.

    Ben deletes the response...

    Sure.

    Perhaps *YOU* can help out poor Chickenshit.

    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't
    get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to gjjmail1202@gmail.com on Fri Aug 25 07:24:19 2023
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 05:06:17 -0700 (PDT), Gil Jesus
    <gjjmail1202@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 7:54:39?AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    You failed. Raising the same issue after its been debunked and pretending its still an open issue is the very definition of a Fringe Reset.

    ON OSWALD'S CLIPBOARD BEING HIDDEN:

    The Report concluded:
    "Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    But the evidence said:

    The clipboard was lying on the floor when found with no cartons around it. >https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/WC_Vol6_343-kaiser-clipboard.gif

    That makes it a provable lie.

    GAME-SET-MATCH

    You can't convince Huckster with the truth. Only a lie that supports
    his faith will work.

    And that fact tells the tale...

    Huckster disappears for weeks or months at a time, jumps in to
    respond to a post or a few posts, then runs away again.

    He'll be gone by Monday again...

    Such AMAZING cowardice on his part!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Fri Aug 25 10:18:23 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:24:27 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 04:44:32 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:27:45?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't
    get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.
    Logical fallacy deleted.

    No, you left your change of subject in. What you deleted was my pointing out your response was a non sequitur — a logical fallacy.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Fri Aug 25 10:16:27 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 8:06:18 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 7:54:39 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    You failed. Raising the same issue after it’s been debunked and pretending it’s still an open issue is the very definition of a Fringe Reset.
    ON OSWALD'S CLIPBOARD BEING HIDDEN:

    The Report concluded:
    "Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)
    But the evidence said:

    The clipboard was lying on the floor when found with no cartons around it. https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/WC_Vol6_343-kaiser-clipboard.gif

    That makes it a provable lie.

    GAME-SET-MATCH

    Only if you ignore the entirety of what Kaiser said and the photo indicating where the clipboard was located for the quotes out of context you provide.

    — quote —

    Mr. BALL. Now, here is a picture which is marked in a group of pictures as No. 36, but which I will mark as Exhibit A to your deposition.
    (Instrument marked by the reporter as Kaiser Exhibit A, for identification.) Mr. BALL. Does this show the place where the clipboard was found, or do you know?
    Mr. KAISER. It wasn't found there--it was found on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. Where on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Behind these cartons--between there and the wall.
    Mr. BALL. Behind which cartons?
    Mr. KAISER. Right in here (indicating).
    Mr. BALL. Which cartons--it was found behind--are the cartons in the picture--it wasn't found where it is circled there?
    Mr. KAISER. It wasn't found where it circled--there--it was found on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. Put a big "X" on the carton behind which it was found.
    Mr. KAISER. I'll put it on this one---it was found between that and the wall. (Witness placed "X" on the pictures requested by Counsel Ball.)
    Mr. BALL. You have marked an "X" on the carton--between that carton and the wall the clipboard was found.
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, between these row of cartons right over there.
    — unquote —

    See the “X” in the below photo. It is marked per the testimony above by Kaiser:
    https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/html/WH_Vol20_0177b.htm

    A. In a seldom-used alcove
    B. Placed well back behind boxes.
    C. Not visible from either stairwell.
    D. Not even visible if standing where the camera is located(behind that row of boxes denoted with the “X”.

    You have to be almost upon it to see it. You have to be Frankie Kaiser to understand it was Oswald’s clipboard, because it had Kaiser’s name on it and he recognized it as the one Oswald took from him:
    — quote —
    Mr. BALL. Now, Frankie, that clipboard you found describe it--what was it?
    Mr. KAISER. It was made out of paper and tape and a little piece of pasteboard.
    Mr. BALL. Who made it?
    Mr. KAISER. I did.
    Mr. BALL. When?
    Mr. KAISER. Well, right after I started there it had been a long time ago.
    Mr. BALL. And how was it you weren't using it on this day?
    Mr. KAISER. You see, when he first started there —
    Mr. BALL. Who is "he"?
    Mr. KAISER. Lee---when he first started to work there he got my clipboard and started using it.
    Mr. BALL. Did you give it to him to use?
    Mr. KAISER. No, he just picked it up and started using it and I just went and made me another one.
    Mr. BALL. You recognized that clipboard when you saw it?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, because my name was all over it.
    Mr. BALL. Your name was on it, too?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BALL. You put your name "Frankie Kaiser" on it?
    Mr. KAISER. You see, it don't do no good to get a clipboard around here everybody is always running off with it.
    — unquote —

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Fri Aug 25 10:26:16 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:24:27 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 05:06:17 -0700 (PDT), Gil Jesus
    <gjjma...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 7:54:39?AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    You failed. Raising the same issue after it’s been debunked and pretending it’s still an open issue is the very definition of a Fringe Reset.

    ON OSWALD'S CLIPBOARD BEING HIDDEN:

    The Report concluded:
    "Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    But the evidence said:

    The clipboard was lying on the floor when found with no cartons around it. >https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/WC_Vol6_343-kaiser-clipboard.gif

    That makes it a provable lie.

    GAME-SET-MATCH
    You can't convince Huckster with the truth. Only a lie that supports
    his faith will work.

    Begged question.



    And that fact tells the tale...

    Huckster disappears for weeks or months at a time, jumps in to
    respond to a post or a few posts, then runs away again.

    Running is begged.



    He'll be gone by Monday again...

    More than likely. I have a rather full calendar.



    Such AMAZING cowardice on his part!

    Another begged question logical fallacy, as well as ad hominem. Ben can’t respond to the points made, so he deletes them and calls me names instead.

    Yeah, I just got back from Italy. You see, I have a life, and don’t live for these boards. I trust you’ll be doing your Fringe Resets as long as you’re alive, so there’s really no need for me to point out every time you do another.

    People understand the concept — we point out how you’re wrong, and you wait a while, ignore the prior responses, and start the discussion anew. You do that a lot, with all your numbered series. That’s less than honest. That’s how you “debate,”
    by ignoring what others say and calling them names.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Fri Aug 25 10:28:16 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:24:29 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 04:54:37 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 11:59:22?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 06:48:35 -0700, Ben Holmes
    <Ad...@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

    "The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his >>>clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee, >>>Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the >>>northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from >>>where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic >>>edition--teacher's edition.
    Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the >>>plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and >>>I just noticed it laying over there.
    Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
    Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or >>>6 inches, something like that.
    Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard? >>>Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't. >>>Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's >>>the stairs right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs >>>this way going up and here's the and it was laying fight in here by >>>the cards--there are about four or five cards, I guess, running in >>>front of it--just laying between the part you go down and the part you >>>go up.
    Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway >>>down?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)

    BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the >>>location of the three cartridges?
    Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes >>>longer--after Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there, >>>Captain Fritz picked up the cartridges, began to examine them, of >>>course I left that particular area. By that time there was a number of >>>officers up there. The floor was covered with officers. And we were >>>searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. (3H 289)

    The WC simply lied again, when trying to disguise the fact that the >>>many policemen that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) >>>couldn't find a clipboard that Kaiser clearly states was in plain >>>sight, and not hidden at all. The clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an >>>entire working week went by before it was "discovered". The Warren >>>Commission is caught in an obvious lie here... is there any LNT'ers >>>that will simply admit this?
    Not a SINGLE believer was able to defend the WCR's lie proven here.

    That’s false.
    And you're a liar, so what?

    If you cannot produce the answer, then you're simply lying, aren't
    you?

    Ben deleted my response and called me a name.

    He didn’t try to rebut my response, he simply ignored it.

    Typical Ben response.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Hank Sienzant on Fri Aug 25 13:22:13 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 1:28:18 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:24:29 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 04:54:37 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 11:59:22?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 06:48:35 -0700, Ben Holmes
    <Ad...@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

    "The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his >>>clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee, >>>Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the >>>northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from >>>where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic >>>edition--teacher's edition.
    Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the >>>plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and >>>I just noticed it laying over there.
    Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
    Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or >>>6 inches, something like that.
    Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard? >>>Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't. >>>Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard? >>>Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's >>>the stairs right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs >>>this way going up and here's the and it was laying fight in here by >>>the cards--there are about four or five cards, I guess, running in >>>front of it--just laying between the part you go down and the part you >>>go up.
    Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway >>>down?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)

    BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the >>>location of the three cartridges?
    Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes >>>longer--after Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there, >>>Captain Fritz picked up the cartridges, began to examine them, of >>>course I left that particular area. By that time there was a number of >>>officers up there. The floor was covered with officers. And we were >>>searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. (3H 289)

    The WC simply lied again, when trying to disguise the fact that the >>>many policemen that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) >>>couldn't find a clipboard that Kaiser clearly states was in plain >>>sight, and not hidden at all. The clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an >>>entire working week went by before it was "discovered". The Warren >>>Commission is caught in an obvious lie here... is there any LNT'ers >>>that will simply admit this?
    Not a SINGLE believer was able to defend the WCR's lie proven here.

    That’s false.
    And you're a liar, so what?

    If you cannot produce the answer, then you're simply lying, aren't
    you?
    Ben deleted my response and called me a name.

    He didn’t try to rebut my response, he simply ignored it.

    Typical Ben response.

    I don't know why you guys bother to reply to him. All you are doing is feeding the troll. If we all
    ignored him, he might go away. Even if he didn't, I've found ignoring him is like getting a toothache
    extracted. Life is so much more pleasant without him.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to hsienzant@aol.com on Fri Aug 25 14:47:10 2023
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 10:26:16 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:24:27?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 05:06:17 -0700 (PDT), Gil Jesus
    <gjjma...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 7:54:39?AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    You failed. Raising the same issue after its been debunked and pretending its still an open issue is the very definition of a Fringe Reset.

    ON OSWALD'S CLIPBOARD BEING HIDDEN:

    The Report concluded:
    "Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    But the evidence said:

    The clipboard was lying on the floor when found with no cartons around it. >> >https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/WC_Vol6_343-kaiser-clipboard.gif

    That makes it a provable lie.

    GAME-SET-MATCH
    You can't convince Huckster with the truth. Only a lie that supports
    his faith will work.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    And that fact tells the tale...

    Huckster disappears for weeks or months at a time, jumps in to
    respond to a post or a few posts, then runs away again.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    He'll be gone by Monday again...

    Such AMAZING cowardice on his part!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to hsienzant@aol.com on Fri Aug 25 14:46:08 2023
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 10:18:23 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:24:27?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 04:44:32 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:27:45?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't
    get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.
    Logical fallacy deleted.

    No...

    Yes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to hsienzant@aol.com on Fri Aug 25 14:49:12 2023
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 10:28:16 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:24:29?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 04:54:37 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 11:59:22?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 06:48:35 -0700, Ben Holmes
    <Ad...@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

    "The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his >>>>>clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee, >>>>>Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the >>>>>northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from >>>>>where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic >>>>>edition--teacher's edition.
    Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
    Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the >>>>>plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and >>>>>I just noticed it laying over there.
    Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
    Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or >>>>>6 inches, something like that.
    Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard? >>>>>Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't. >>>>>Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard? >>>>>Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's >>>>>the stairs right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs >>>>>this way going up and here's the and it was laying fight in here by >>>>>the cards--there are about four or five cards, I guess, running in >>>>>front of it--just laying between the part you go down and the part you >>>>>go up.
    Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway >>>>>down?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)

    BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the >>>>>location of the three cartridges?
    Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes >>>>>longer--after Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there, >>>>>Captain Fritz picked up the cartridges, began to examine them, of >>>>>course I left that particular area. By that time there was a number of >>>>>officers up there. The floor was covered with officers. And we were >>>>>searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. (3H 289)

    The WC simply lied again, when trying to disguise the fact that the >>>>>many policemen that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) >>>>>couldn't find a clipboard that Kaiser clearly states was in plain >>>>>sight, and not hidden at all. The clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an >>>>>entire working week went by before it was "discovered". The Warren >>>>>Commission is caught in an obvious lie here... is there any LNT'ers >>>>>that will simply admit this?
    Not a SINGLE believer was able to defend the WCR's lie proven here.

    Thats false.
    And you're a liar, so what?

    If you cannot produce the answer, then you're simply lying, aren't
    you?

    Ben...

    Is the master here. As I utilize evidence rather than logical
    fallacies & speculation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Fri Aug 25 14:50:06 2023
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 13:22:13 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    I don't know why...

    Why bother to restrict what you don't know to "why?"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Sat Aug 26 08:32:05 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 5:46:12 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 10:18:23 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:24:27?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 04:44:32 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:27:45?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't >>>> get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.
    Logical fallacy deleted.

    No... (No, you left your change of subject in. What you deleted was my pointing out your response was a non sequitur — a logical fallacy.)

    Yes.

    Ben deletes my point and makes none of his own.

    Standard Ben responsiveness.

    Hank

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Sat Aug 26 08:34:16 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 5:47:14 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 10:26:16 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:24:27?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 05:06:17 -0700 (PDT), Gil Jesus
    <gjjma...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 7:54:39?AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    You failed. Raising the same issue after it’s been debunked and pretending it’s still an open issue is the very definition of a Fringe Reset.

    ON OSWALD'S CLIPBOARD BEING HIDDEN:

    The Report concluded:
    "Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    But the evidence said:

    The clipboard was lying on the floor when found with no cartons around it.
    https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/WC_Vol6_343-kaiser-clipboard.gif

    That makes it a provable lie.

    GAME-SET-MATCH
    You can't convince Huckster with the truth. Only a lie that supports
    his faith will work.
    Logical fallacy deleted.

    Ben deletes my point and makes none of his own.

    Standard Ben responsiveness.

    And that fact tells the tale...

    Huckster disappears for weeks or months at a time, jumps in to
    respond to a post or a few posts, then runs away again.
    Logical fallacy deleted.

    Ben deletes my point and makes none of his own.

    Standard Ben responsiveness.


    He'll be gone by Monday again...

    Such AMAZING cowardice on his part!

    Ben calls me names.

    Standard Ben responsiveness.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Sat Aug 26 08:37:34 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 5:48:00 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 10:16:27 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:

    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 8:06:18?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 7:54:39?AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    You failed. Raising the same issue after it’s been debunked and pretending it’s still an open issue is the very definition of a Fringe Reset.
    ON OSWALD'S CLIPBOARD BEING HIDDEN:

    The Report concluded:
    "Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)
    But the evidence said:

    The clipboard was lying on the floor when found with no cartons around it.
    https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/WC_Vol6_343-kaiser-clipboard.gif

    That makes it a provable lie.

    GAME-SET-MATCH

    Only if ...

    I read the evidence that the WCR lied about...

    This is what Ben had to delete because he has no response:

    Only if you ignore the entirety of what Kaiser said and the photo indicating where the clipboard was located for the quotes out of context you provide.

    — quote —
    Mr. BALL. Now, here is a picture which is marked in a group of pictures as No. 36, but which I will mark as Exhibit A to your deposition.
    (Instrument marked by the reporter as Kaiser Exhibit A, for identification.) Mr. BALL. Does this show the place where the clipboard was found, or do you know?
    Mr. KAISER. It wasn't found there--it was found on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. Where on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Behind these cartons--between there and the wall.
    Mr. BALL. Behind which cartons?
    Mr. KAISER. Right in here (indicating).
    Mr. BALL. Which cartons--it was found behind--are the cartons in the picture--it wasn't found where it is circled there?
    Mr. KAISER. It wasn't found where it circled--there--it was found on the floor. Mr. BALL. Put a big "X" on the carton behind which it was found.
    Mr. KAISER. I'll put it on this one---it was found between that and the wall. (Witness placed "X" on the pictures requested by Counsel Ball.)
    Mr. BALL. You have marked an "X" on the carton--between that carton and the wall the clipboard was found.
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, between these row of cartons right over there.
    — unquote —

    See the “X” in the below photo. It is marked per the testimony above by Kaiser:
    https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/html/WH_Vol20_0177b.htm

    A. In a seldom-used alcove
    B. Placed well back behind boxes.
    C. Not visible from either stairwell.
    D. Not even visible if standing where the camera is located(behind that row of boxes denoted with the “X”.

    You have to be almost upon it to see it. You have to be Frankie Kaiser to understand it was Oswald’s clipboard, because it had Kaiser’s name on it and he recognized it as the one Oswald took from him:
    — quote —
    Mr. BALL. Now, Frankie, that clipboard you found describe it--what was it?
    Mr. KAISER. It was made out of paper and tape and a little piece of pasteboard. Mr. BALL. Who made it?
    Mr. KAISER. I did.
    Mr. BALL. When?
    Mr. KAISER. Well, right after I started there it had been a long time ago.
    Mr. BALL. And how was it you weren't using it on this day?
    Mr. KAISER. You see, when he first started there —
    Mr. BALL. Who is "he"?
    Mr. KAISER. Lee---when he first started to work there he got my clipboard and started using it.
    Mr. BALL. Did you give it to him to use?
    Mr. KAISER. No, he just picked it up and started using it and I just went and made me another one.
    Mr. BALL. You recognized that clipboard when you saw it?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, because my name was all over it.
    Mr. BALL. Your name was on it, too?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BALL. You put your name "Frankie Kaiser" on it?
    Mr. KAISER. You see, it don't do no good to get a clipboard around here everybody is always running off with it.
    — unquote —

    Ben can't argue against any of that, so he deletes it and simply repeats his initial claim.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to hsienzant@aol.com on Wed Aug 30 07:54:43 2023
    On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 08:32:05 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 5:46:12?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 10:18:23 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:24:27?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 04:44:32 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:27:45?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
    wrote:


    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    Chickenshit is TERRIFIED of this simple honest question. He knows
    that Bugliosi was a moron if he truly thought this... yet you can't >>>>>> get Chickenshit to publicly acknowledge that Bugliosi said this.

    It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question, and Chickenshit cannot cite
    where he has EVER answered it. (Without immediately denying it.)

    So it's going to keep getting asked until Chickenshit answers it.
    Logical fallacy deleted.

    No... (No, you left your change of subject in. What you deleted was my pointing out your response was a non sequitur a logical fallacy.)

    Yes.

    Ben deletes ...

    Sure. No problem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Tue Sep 12 14:11:41 2023
    On Wednesday, August 30, 2023 at 10:56:30 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 08:34:16 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 5:47:14?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 10:26:16 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:24:27?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 05:06:17 -0700 (PDT), Gil Jesus
    <gjjma...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 7:54:39?AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote: >>>>>> You failed. Raising the same issue after it’s been debunked and pretending it’s still an open issue is the very definition of a Fringe Reset.

    ON OSWALD'S CLIPBOARD BEING HIDDEN:

    The Report concluded:
    "Frankie Kaiser, found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the sixth floor at the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)

    But the evidence said:

    The clipboard was lying on the floor when found with no cartons around it.
    https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/WC_Vol6_343-kaiser-clipboard.gif

    That makes it a provable lie.

    GAME-SET-MATCH
    You can't convince Huckster with the truth. Only a lie that supports >>>> his faith will work.
    Logical fallacy deleted.

    Ben deletes...

    Sure. No problem. Happy to oblige... Curiously, you posted no
    evidence. no citations, no documents, no testimony, no exhibits, no
    witness videos.

    I quoted testimony of Kaiser, which you deleted and ignored. Kaiser’s testimony is *evidence*. Your claim I posted no evidence and no testimony is FALSE.

    Here it is again:
    — quote —
    Mr. BALL. Now, here is a picture which is marked in a group of pictures as No. 36, but which I will mark as Exhibit A to your deposition.
    (Instrument marked by the reporter as Kaiser Exhibit A, for identification.) Mr. BALL. Does this show the place where the clipboard was found, or do you know?
    Mr. KAISER. It wasn't found there--it was found on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. Where on the floor?
    Mr. KAISER. Behind these cartons--between there and the wall.
    Mr. BALL. Behind which cartons?
    Mr. KAISER. Right in here (indicating).
    Mr. BALL. Which cartons--it was found behind--are the cartons in the picture--it wasn't found where it is circled there?
    Mr. KAISER. It wasn't found where it circled--there--it was found on the floor.
    Mr. BALL. Put a big "X" on the carton behind which it was found.
    Mr. KAISER. I'll put it on this one---it was found between that and the wall. (Witness placed "X" on the pictures requested by Counsel Ball.)
    Mr. BALL. You have marked an "X" on the carton--between that carton and the wall the clipboard was found.
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, between these row of cartons right over there.
    — unquote —

    See the “X” in the below photo. It is marked per the testimony above by Kaiser:
    https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/html/WH_Vol20_0177b.htm

    A. In a seldom-used alcove
    B. Placed well back behind boxes.
    C. Not visible from either stairwell.
    D. Not even visible if standing where the camera is located(behind that row of boxes denoted with the “X”.

    You have to be almost upon it to see it. You have to be Frankie Kaiser to understand it was Oswald’s clipboard, because it had Kaiser’s name on it and he recognized it as the one Oswald took from him:
    — quote —
    Mr. BALL. Now, Frankie, that clipboard you found describe it--what was it?
    Mr. KAISER. It was made out of paper and tape and a little piece of pasteboard.
    Mr. BALL. Who made it?
    Mr. KAISER. I did.
    Mr. BALL. When?
    Mr. KAISER. Well, right after I started there it had been a long time ago.
    Mr. BALL. And how was it you weren't using it on this day?
    Mr. KAISER. You see, when he first started there —
    Mr. BALL. Who is "he"?
    Mr. KAISER. Lee---when he first started to work there he got my clipboard and started using it.
    Mr. BALL. Did you give it to him to use?
    Mr. KAISER. No, he just picked it up and started using it and I just went and made me another one.
    Mr. BALL. You recognized that clipboard when you saw it?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, because my name was all over it.
    Mr. BALL. Your name was on it, too?
    Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BALL. You put your name "Frankie Kaiser" on it?
    Mr. KAISER. You see, it don't do no good to get a clipboard around here everybody is always running off with it.
    — unquote —

    You RUN from every response I make.


    Only comments. We gain nothing from the above.

    Which makes who exactly the fool?

    I know who the falsehood teller is… does that count for anything?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 12 15:29:17 2023
    On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 14:11:41 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:


    You've claimed that the "A.B.C.D." in the Autopsy Report is the
    description of the *location* of the large head wound.

    Yet you refuse time and time again from QUOTING the preceding
    paragraph that describes what this ACTUALLY is. Why is that?

    You've also claimed that the prosectors dissected the throat wound.

    Why do you continue to refuse to cite any evidence for this?

    Why have you CONSISTENTLY run away each time I raise this issue?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Wed Sep 13 14:34:00 2023
    On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 6:29:22 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 14:11:41 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:


    You've claimed that the "A.B.C.D." in the Autopsy Report is the
    description of the *location* of the large head wound.

    Yet you refuse time and time again from QUOTING the preceding
    paragraph that describes what this ACTUALLY is. Why is that?

    You've also claimed that the prosectors dissected the throat wound.

    Why do you continue to refuse to cite any evidence for this?

    Why have you CONSISTENTLY run away each time I raise this issue?

    So rather than retract his falsehood that I posted no evidence, Ben deletes what I wrote and attempts to change the subject from THE POINT HE RAISED ORIGINALLY concerning Oswald’s clipboard, and what conclusions we can reach concerning its found
    location.

    I would suggest that is running away.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 13 14:36:58 2023
    On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 14:34:00 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:


    You've claimed that the "A.B.C.D." in the Autopsy Report is the
    description of the *location* of the large head wound.

    Yet you refuse time and time again from QUOTING the preceding
    paragraph that describes what this ACTUALLY is. Why is that?

    You've also claimed that the prosectors dissected the throat wound.

    Why do you continue to refuse to cite any evidence for this?

    Why have you CONSISTENTLY run away each time I raise this issue?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)