• Vincent Bugliosi's SBT - #2 - Refuted

    From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 9 07:19:49 2023
    Bugliosi provides his arguments for the Single Bullet Theory: (With my responses...)

    "2. A second powerful reason to believe in the validity of the
    single-bullet theory without any reference to the Zapruder film is the
    lack of any physical evidence supporting a second gunman. As has
    already been established, *three* shell casings ejected from Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle were found on the sixth floor of the Book
    Depository Building beneath the southeasternmost window. If, indeed, a
    fourth shot had been fired that day (and hence, there was a second
    assassin), how is it possible that not one person, out of an estimated
    crowd of four to five hundred spectators in Dealey Plaza, saw a second gunman? (e.g., a shell casing, a fourth bullet, a second rifle, etc.)?
    Are we to believe, then, that the second gunman simply vanished into
    thin air? Or is that nonsense? Again the lack of any physical evidence
    of a second gunman, all by itself, is extremely powerful evidence
    supporting the single-bullet theory." Pg 462-463

    Bugliosi doesn't address the known problems with CE543, (the lack of a 'chamber-mark'), nor the fact that the *earliest* evidence shows only
    *two* shells, not three.

    Bugliosi argues that if a second gunman was not seen by anyone, then
    he doesn't exist. A rather silly argument, as he himself must
    certainly know.

    I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to deal with the Z-film, since
    it shows the strongest evidence that the SBT never happened.

    Indeed, the sum total of *THIS* argument is simply one long logical
    fallacy... the fallacy of personal incredulity. He can't find it
    possible that assassins could fire - yet remain hidden.

    Bugliosi's final sentence is simply the logical fallacy of the absence
    of evidence. But he's careful to claim only an absence of PHYSICAL
    evidence, because he's well aware of how many eyewitnesses (including
    those on the steps of the TSBD!) pointed to the Grassy Knoll.

    Logical fallacies are hardly "powerful reasons" except to those who
    have a belief they don't want to disturb.

    Bugliosi has failed with #2.

    (Cue Chickenshit to whimper, and Corbutt to respond to Chickenshit,
    despite his claim not to read my posts... watch for it!)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to Admin@ConspiracyJFKForum.com on Wed Aug 9 16:34:20 2023
    On Wed, 09 Aug 2023 07:19:49 -0700, Ben Holmes
    <Admin@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

    Bugliosi provides his arguments for the Single Bullet Theory: (With my >responses...)

    "2. A second powerful reason to believe in the validity of the
    single-bullet theory without any reference to the Zapruder film is the
    lack of any physical evidence supporting a second gunman. As has
    already been established, *three* shell casings ejected from Oswald's
    Mannlicher-Carcano rifle were found on the sixth floor of the Book
    Depository Building beneath the southeasternmost window. If, indeed, a
    fourth shot had been fired that day (and hence, there was a second
    assassin), how is it possible that not one person, out of an estimated
    crowd of four to five hundred spectators in Dealey Plaza, saw a second
    gunman? (e.g., a shell casing, a fourth bullet, a second rifle, etc.)?
    Are we to believe, then, that the second gunman simply vanished into
    thin air? Or is that nonsense? Again the lack of any physical evidence
    of a second gunman, all by itself, is extremely powerful evidence
    supporting the single-bullet theory." Pg 462-463

    Bugliosi doesn't address the known problems with CE543, (the lack of a >'chamber-mark'), nor the fact that the *earliest* evidence shows only
    *two* shells, not three.

    Bugliosi argues that if a second gunman was not seen by anyone, then
    he doesn't exist. A rather silly argument, as he himself must
    certainly know.

    I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to deal with the Z-film, since
    it shows the strongest evidence that the SBT never happened.

    Indeed, the sum total of *THIS* argument is simply one long logical >fallacy... the fallacy of personal incredulity. He can't find it
    possible that assassins could fire - yet remain hidden.

    Bugliosi's final sentence is simply the logical fallacy of the absence
    of evidence. But he's careful to claim only an absence of PHYSICAL
    evidence, because he's well aware of how many eyewitnesses (including
    those on the steps of the TSBD!) pointed to the Grassy Knoll.

    Logical fallacies are hardly "powerful reasons" except to those who
    have a belief they don't want to disturb.

    Bugliosi has failed with #2.

    (Cue Chickenshit to whimper, and Corbutt to respond to Chickenshit,
    despite his claim not to read my posts... watch for it!)


    Looks like I was wrong. Chickenshit refused to try to defend
    Bugliosi, even though he read it, and Corbutt couldn't respond if
    no-one else did. (But avidly read this post anyway...)

    The cowardice in this forum is ASTRONOMICAL!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Wed Aug 9 16:52:11 2023
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 10:19:52 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    Bugliosi provides his arguments for the Single Bullet Theory: (With my responses...)

    "2. A second powerful reason to believe in the validity of the single-bullet theory without any reference to the Zapruder film is the lack of any physical evidence supporting a second gunman. As has
    already been established, *three* shell casings ejected from Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle were found on the sixth floor of the Book Depository Building beneath the southeasternmost window. If, indeed, a fourth shot had been fired that day (and hence, there was a second assassin), how is it possible that not one person, out of an estimated crowd of four to five hundred spectators in Dealey Plaza, saw a second gunman? (e.g., a shell casing, a fourth bullet, a second rifle, etc.)?
    Are we to believe, then, that the second gunman simply vanished into
    thin air? Or is that nonsense? Again the lack of any physical evidence
    of a second gunman, all by itself, is extremely powerful evidence supporting the single-bullet theory." Pg 462-463

    Bugliosi doesn't address the known problems with CE543, (the lack of a 'chamber-mark'),

    You refuse to show the significance of whatever it is you think should exist.

    nor the fact that the *earliest* evidence shows only
    *two* shells, not three.

    Support that.

    Bugliosi argues that if a second gunman was not seen by anyone, then
    he doesn't exist.

    It certainly speaks against the existence of a second shooter.

    And if you check inside the parenthesis you`ll see he also mentions the lack of physical evidence.

    A rather silly argument, as he himself must
    certainly know.

    I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to deal with the Z-film, since
    it shows the strongest evidence that the SBT never happened.

    An easily exposed lie...

    https://giphy.com/gifs/john-fitzgerald-Xyf3minuoxuBq

    Indeed, the sum total of *THIS* argument is simply one long logical fallacy... the fallacy of personal incredulity. He can't find it
    possible that assassins could fire - yet remain hidden.

    Bugliosi's final sentence is simply the logical fallacy of the absence
    of evidence. But he's careful to claim only an absence of PHYSICAL
    evidence, because he's well aware of how many eyewitnesses (including
    those on the steps of the TSBD!) pointed to the Grassy Knoll.

    What did they witness on the knoll with their eyes?

    Logical fallacies are hardly "powerful reasons" except to those who
    have a belief they don't want to disturb.

    Bugliosi has failed with #2.

    Men make real arguments. Little boys cry about what the men say without putting a shooting scenario of their own on the table for consideration.

    (Cue Chickenshit to whimper, and Corbutt to respond to Chickenshit,
    despite his claim not to read my posts... watch for it!)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Wed Aug 9 16:40:12 2023
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 7:34:25 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Wed, 09 Aug 2023 07:19:49 -0700, Ben Holmes <Ad...@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

    Bugliosi provides his arguments for the Single Bullet Theory: (With my >responses...)

    "2. A second powerful reason to believe in the validity of the
    single-bullet theory without any reference to the Zapruder film is the
    lack of any physical evidence supporting a second gunman. As has
    already been established, *three* shell casings ejected from Oswald's
    Mannlicher-Carcano rifle were found on the sixth floor of the Book
    Depository Building beneath the southeasternmost window. If, indeed, a
    fourth shot had been fired that day (and hence, there was a second
    assassin), how is it possible that not one person, out of an estimated
    crowd of four to five hundred spectators in Dealey Plaza, saw a second
    gunman? (e.g., a shell casing, a fourth bullet, a second rifle, etc.)?
    Are we to believe, then, that the second gunman simply vanished into
    thin air? Or is that nonsense? Again the lack of any physical evidence
    of a second gunman, all by itself, is extremely powerful evidence
    supporting the single-bullet theory." Pg 462-463

    Bugliosi doesn't address the known problems with CE543, (the lack of a >'chamber-mark'), nor the fact that the *earliest* evidence shows only >*two* shells, not three.

    Bugliosi argues that if a second gunman was not seen by anyone, then
    he doesn't exist. A rather silly argument, as he himself must
    certainly know.

    I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to deal with the Z-film, since
    it shows the strongest evidence that the SBT never happened.

    Indeed, the sum total of *THIS* argument is simply one long logical >fallacy... the fallacy of personal incredulity. He can't find it
    possible that assassins could fire - yet remain hidden.

    Bugliosi's final sentence is simply the logical fallacy of the absence
    of evidence. But he's careful to claim only an absence of PHYSICAL >evidence, because he's well aware of how many eyewitnesses (including >those on the steps of the TSBD!) pointed to the Grassy Knoll.

    Logical fallacies are hardly "powerful reasons" except to those who
    have a belief they don't want to disturb.

    Bugliosi has failed with #2.

    (Cue Chickenshit to whimper, and Corbutt to respond to Chickenshit, >despite his claim not to read my posts... watch for it!)
    Looks like I was wrong. Chickenshit refused to try to defend
    Bugliosi, even though he read it,

    I just now read it, and don`t see anything that needs defending, you refuse to make valid arguments.

    But since I am bored and you crave my attention, I`ll play...

    and Corbutt couldn't respond if
    no-one else did. (But avidly read this post anyway...)

    The cowardice in this forum is ASTRONOMICAL!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 11 14:22:36 2023
    On Wed, 9 Aug 2023 16:52:11 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirslick@fast.net>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 10:19:52?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    Bugliosi provides his arguments for the Single Bullet Theory: (With my
    responses...)

    "2. A second powerful reason to believe in the validity of the
    single-bullet theory without any reference to the Zapruder film is the
    lack of any physical evidence supporting a second gunman. As has
    already been established, *three* shell casings ejected from Oswald's
    Mannlicher-Carcano rifle were found on the sixth floor of the Book
    Depository Building beneath the southeasternmost window. If, indeed, a
    fourth shot had been fired that day (and hence, there was a second
    assassin), how is it possible that not one person, out of an estimated
    crowd of four to five hundred spectators in Dealey Plaza, saw a second
    gunman? (e.g., a shell casing, a fourth bullet, a second rifle, etc.)?
    Are we to believe, then, that the second gunman simply vanished into
    thin air? Or is that nonsense? Again the lack of any physical evidence
    of a second gunman, all by itself, is extremely powerful evidence
    supporting the single-bullet theory." Pg 462-463

    Bugliosi doesn't address the known problems with CE543, (the lack of a
    'chamber-mark'),

    You refuse to show the significance of whatever it is you think should exist.


    Not a refutation. Indeed, you failed to address it completely.


    nor the fact that the *earliest* evidence shows only
    *two* shells, not three.

    Support that.


    No. If you're willing to lie, there's nothing I can do to stop you.

    And, as there's literally *NO* evidence you would accept, it would be
    simply a waste of time. It's already been done in this forum.


    Bugliosi argues that if a second gunman was not seen by anyone, then
    he doesn't exist.

    It certainly speaks against the existence of a second shooter.


    It also speaks against **MOST** murderers...


    And if you check inside the parenthesis you`ll see he also mentions the lack of physical evidence.


    Dealt with below. Clearly, you don't bother to read what you respond
    to.


    A rather silly argument, as he himself must
    certainly know.

    I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to deal with the Z-film, since
    it shows the strongest evidence that the SBT never happened.

    An easily exposed lie...


    You're lying again, Chickenshit.


    https://giphy.com/gifs/john-fitzgerald-Xyf3minuoxuBq


    Notice folks, that *MY* explanation for why Bugs wanted to disregard
    the Z-film is credible, but Chickenshit has **NO** explanation.


    Indeed, the sum total of *THIS* argument is simply one long logical
    fallacy... the fallacy of personal incredulity. He can't find it
    possible that assassins could fire - yet remain hidden.

    Bugliosi's final sentence is simply the logical fallacy of the absence
    of evidence. But he's careful to claim only an absence of PHYSICAL
    evidence, because he's well aware of how many eyewitnesses (including
    those on the steps of the TSBD!) pointed to the Grassy Knoll.

    What did they witness on the knoll with their eyes?


    Tut tut tut ... stop trying to change the topic, and address the
    logical fallacy I just pointed out.


    Logical fallacies are hardly "powerful reasons" except to those who
    have a belief they don't want to disturb.

    Bugliosi has failed with #2.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    (Cue Chickenshit to whimper, and Corbutt to respond to Chickenshit,
    despite his claim not to read my posts... watch for it!)


    And Chickenshit fails yet again to tell us what he thinks happened on
    11/22/63 - like the coward he clearly is.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Fri Aug 11 14:27:30 2023
    On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:23:01 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Wed, 9 Aug 2023 16:40:12 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
    wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 7:34:25?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Wed, 09 Aug 2023 07:19:49 -0700, Ben Holmes
    <Ad...@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

    Bugliosi provides his arguments for the Single Bullet Theory: (With my >>>responses...)

    "2. A second powerful reason to believe in the validity of the
    single-bullet theory without any reference to the Zapruder film is the >>>> lack of any physical evidence supporting a second gunman. As has
    already been established, *three* shell casings ejected from Oswald's >>>> Mannlicher-Carcano rifle were found on the sixth floor of the Book
    Depository Building beneath the southeasternmost window. If, indeed, a >>>> fourth shot had been fired that day (and hence, there was a second
    assassin), how is it possible that not one person, out of an estimated >>>> crowd of four to five hundred spectators in Dealey Plaza, saw a second >>>> gunman? (e.g., a shell casing, a fourth bullet, a second rifle, etc.)? >>>> Are we to believe, then, that the second gunman simply vanished into >>>> thin air? Or is that nonsense? Again the lack of any physical evidence >>>> of a second gunman, all by itself, is extremely powerful evidence
    supporting the single-bullet theory." Pg 462-463

    Bugliosi doesn't address the known problems with CE543, (the lack of a >>>'chamber-mark'), nor the fact that the *earliest* evidence shows only >>>*two* shells, not three.

    Bugliosi argues that if a second gunman was not seen by anyone, then >>>he doesn't exist. A rather silly argument, as he himself must >>>certainly know.

    I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to deal with the Z-film, since >>>it shows the strongest evidence that the SBT never happened.

    Indeed, the sum total of *THIS* argument is simply one long logical >>>fallacy... the fallacy of personal incredulity. He can't find it >>>possible that assassins could fire - yet remain hidden.

    Bugliosi's final sentence is simply the logical fallacy of the absence >>>of evidence. But he's careful to claim only an absence of PHYSICAL >>>evidence, because he's well aware of how many eyewitnesses (including >>>those on the steps of the TSBD!) pointed to the Grassy Knoll.

    Logical fallacies are hardly "powerful reasons" except to those who >>>have a belief they don't want to disturb.

    Bugliosi has failed with #2.

    (Cue Chickenshit to whimper, and Corbutt to respond to Chickenshit, >>>despite his claim not to read my posts... watch for it!)
    Looks like I was wrong. Chickenshit refused to try to defend
    Bugliosi, even though he read it,

    I just now read it, and don`t see anything that needs defending, you refuse to make valid arguments.
    Empty unsupported and uncited claims are lies.

    According to *YOU*.
    But since I am bored and you crave my attention, I`ll play...
    A revealing statement...

    It's morons like this that play games with the death of our President.

    It`s your post, stupid.

    and Corbutt couldn't respond if
    no-one else did. (But avidly read this post anyway...)

    The cowardice in this forum is ASTRONOMICAL!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Fri Aug 11 14:42:04 2023
    On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:23:02 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Wed, 9 Aug 2023 16:52:11 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
    wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 10:19:52?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    Bugliosi provides his arguments for the Single Bullet Theory: (With my
    responses...)

    "2. A second powerful reason to believe in the validity of the
    single-bullet theory without any reference to the Zapruder film is the >>> lack of any physical evidence supporting a second gunman. As has
    already been established, *three* shell casings ejected from Oswald's >>> Mannlicher-Carcano rifle were found on the sixth floor of the Book
    Depository Building beneath the southeasternmost window. If, indeed, a >>> fourth shot had been fired that day (and hence, there was a second
    assassin), how is it possible that not one person, out of an estimated >>> crowd of four to five hundred spectators in Dealey Plaza, saw a second >>> gunman? (e.g., a shell casing, a fourth bullet, a second rifle, etc.)? >>> Are we to believe, then, that the second gunman simply vanished into
    thin air? Or is that nonsense? Again the lack of any physical evidence >>> of a second gunman, all by itself, is extremely powerful evidence
    supporting the single-bullet theory." Pg 462-463

    Bugliosi doesn't address the known problems with CE543, (the lack of a
    'chamber-mark'),

    You refuse to show the significance of whatever it is you think should exist.
    Not a refutation.

    You didn`t show anything that needs refuting, you only blew hot air.

    Indeed, you failed to address it completely.

    Your empty claims are not the default that need to be refuted.

    nor the fact that the *earliest* evidence shows only
    *two* shells, not three.

    Support that.
    No.

    Of course not. How you expect to refute Bugliosi with hot air empty claims?

    If you're willing to lie, there's nothing I can do to stop you.

    And, as there's literally *NO* evidence you would accept, it would be
    simply a waste of time. It's already been done in this forum.

    What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

    Bugliosi argues that if a second gunman was not seen by anyone, then
    he doesn't exist.

    It certainly speaks against the existence of a second shooter.
    It also speaks against **MOST** murderers...

    More hot air you won`t support.

    And if you check inside the parenthesis you`ll see he also mentions the lack of physical evidence.
    Dealt with below.

    Lied about above.

    Clearly, you don't bother to read what you respond
    to.
    A rather silly argument, as he himself must
    certainly know.

    I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to deal with the Z-film, since
    it shows the strongest evidence that the SBT never happened.

    An easily exposed lie...
    You're lying again, Chickenshit.


    https://giphy.com/gifs/john-fitzgerald-Xyf3minuoxuBq


    Notice folks, that *MY* explanation for why Bugs wanted to disregard
    the Z-film is credible, but Chickenshit has **NO** explanation.

    You lied when you said the Z-film is evidence the SBT never happened. What I linked to exposes your lie.

    Indeed, the sum total of *THIS* argument is simply one long logical
    fallacy... the fallacy of personal incredulity. He can't find it
    possible that assassins could fire - yet remain hidden.

    Bugliosi's final sentence is simply the logical fallacy of the absence
    of evidence. But he's careful to claim only an absence of PHYSICAL
    evidence, because he's well aware of how many eyewitnesses (including
    those on the steps of the TSBD!) pointed to the Grassy Knoll.

    What did they witness on the knoll with their eyes?
    Tut tut tut ... stop trying to change the topic,

    You said "eyewitness". Definition of an eyewitness is...

    "An eyewitness is a person who has firsthand knowledge of an event from seeing the event. These people are often called into a court of law to give testimony about what they have seen."

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/eyewitness#:~:text=An%20eyewitness%20is%20a%20person,about%20what%20they%20have%20seen.

    So what did they see?

    and address the
    logical fallacy I just pointed out.
    Logical fallacies are hardly "powerful reasons" except to those who
    have a belief they don't want to disturb.

    Bugliosi has failed with #2.

    As if your vaguely alluding to things you refuse to back up did any harm to the things Bugliosi laid out.

    Logical fallacy deleted.
    (Cue Chickenshit to whimper, and Corbutt to respond to Chickenshit,
    despite his claim not to read my posts... watch for it!)

    Why does Ben refuse to ask me questions?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 11 14:42:56 2023
    On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:40:31 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:

    Ben continues to refuse to ask me questions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 11 14:40:27 2023
    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 11 18:47:41 2023
    On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:50:21 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:

    Selective quoting removed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 14 08:25:30 2023
    On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 18:47:47 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirslick@fast.net>
    wrote:

    On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:50:42?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:

    Selective quoting removed.

    So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
    "virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)