Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "About the time
I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the dispatcher,
"We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill apparently got to
Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here, we found empty
rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the third floor.
And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed deputies started
down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three searchers,
then, must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned talking to Sawyer
soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:21:13 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "About the time

I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the dispatcher, "
We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill apparently got to

Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here, we found empty
rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the third floor.
And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed deputies started

down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three searchers, then,
must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned talking to Sawyer

soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:19:45 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:21:13 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "About the

time I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the
dispatcher, "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill apparently got to

Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here, we found empty
rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the third floor.
And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed deputies started

down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three searchers, then,
must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned talking to

Sawyer soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

That might be the first sensible thing I've seen you write. Who knows why people make obvious
mistakes like that.

Don is way overthinking this. Despite some confused statements to the contrary, the rifle, the
shells, the rifle bag, and the boxes with Oswald's prints on them were found on the 6th floor
where every witness who saw the gunman placed him.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 6:26:32 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:19:45 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:21:13 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "About the

time I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the
dispatcher, "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill apparently got

to Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here, we found empty
rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the third floor.
And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed deputies

started down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three searchers,
then, must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned talking to

Sawyer soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

That might be the first sensible thing I've seen you write. Who knows why people make obvious
mistakes like that.

Don is way overthinking this. Despite some confused statements to the contrary, the rifle, the
shells, the rifle bag, and the boxes with Oswald's prints on them were found on the 6th floor
where every witness who saw the gunman placed him.

Willis overthinks. Corbett underthinks.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 03:26:30 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett
<geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

Don is way overthinking this. Despite some confused statements to the contrary, the rifle, the
shells, the rifle bag, and the boxes with Oswald's prints on them were found on the 6th floor
where every witness who saw the gunman placed him.

Sadly, Corbutt refuses to cite this evidence... he want's lurkers to
just accept these as "facts," even thought they aren't.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:17:18 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

Willis overthinks. Corbett underthink

It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking to figure out Oswald was the assassin. It's blatantly
obvious based on the evidence. On the other hand, convincing yourself he wasn't a double
murderer requires a great deal of mental gymnastics, like the ones Don is engaging in here
and in numerous other threads. Of course, Don is not unique in that regard. Anyone who
wants to believe Oswald wasn't the assassin has to go through similar gyrations to deny the
obvious.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 07:28:00 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett
<geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:17:18?AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

Willis overthinks. Corbett underthink

It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking to figure out Oswald was the assassin.

Evidence is what you use, not "thinking."

And even "thinking" is PROVABLY false. You can't name a *SINGLE*
point of contention between you and the WCR.

That's so highly improbable that it's beyond belief.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 07:28:00 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett
<geowri...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:17:18?AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

Willis overthinks. Corbett underthink

It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking to figure out Oswald was the assassin.

Evidence is what you use, not "thinking."

And even "thinking" is PROVABLY false. You can't name a *SINGLE*
point of contention between you and the WCR.

That's so highly improbable that it's beyond belief.

Here, Corbett defends "underthinking" as only Corbett can.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:21:13 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "About the

time I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the
dispatcher, "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill apparently got to

Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here, we found empty
rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the third floor.
And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed deputies started

down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three searchers, then,
must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned talking to

Sawyer soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here. Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:52:05 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:21:13 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "About the

time I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the
dispatcher, "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill apparently got

to Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here, we found empty
rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the third floor.
And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed deputies

started down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three searchers,
then, must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned talking to

Sawyer soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here. Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

Do we know he really said that? That recording does not seem to be available.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:52:05 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here.

I'm glad somebody does. I would hate for you to have gone through all this work for nothing.

Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

If that's how you arrive at the answer you want.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:01:34 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:52:05 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:21:13 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "About

the time I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the
dispatcher, "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill apparently got

to Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here, we found empty
rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the third floor.
And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed deputies

started down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three searchers,
then, must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned talking to

Sawyer soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here. Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

Do we know he really said that? That recording does not seem to be available.

The Warner transcript and Sawyers WC testimony both say this was "5th floor." The McAdams says "3rd." Some transcripts don't have it at all.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:01:34 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:52:05 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:21:13 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "About

the time I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the
dispatcher, "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill apparently got

to Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here, we found empty
rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the third floor.
And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed deputies

started down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three searchers,
then, must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned talking to

Sawyer soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here. Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

Do we know he really said that? That recording does not seem to be available.

Trask cites an unspecified "audio tape", and the post-Sawyer Exhibit DPD transcription (by your 2nd-favorite DPD Sergeant, Bowles; after Hill) and the FBI transcription both say "3rd floor". Yeah, I know, though--I have the tapes of both channels 1 &
2, but one of them cuts off early. I trust them on this point, though--why would they want to make trouble for the DPD? Which they have...

dcw

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:32:21 AM UTC-7, John Corbett wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:52:05 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here.

I'm glad somebody does. I would hate for you to have gone through all this work for nothing.

I notice YOU don't have an idea, better or not. Just lame sarcasm.

Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

If that's how you arrive at the answer you want.

Still no ideas from John Robot...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 2:16:24 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 10:23:03 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:01:34 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:52:05 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:21:13 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "

About the time I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the
dispatcher, "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill apparently

got to Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here, we found
empty rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the third
floor. And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed deputies

started down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three searchers,
then, must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned talking

to Sawyer soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here. Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

Do we know he really said that? That recording does not seem to be available.

The Warner transcript and Sawyers WC testimony both say this was "5th floor." The McAdams says "3rd." Some transcripts don't have it at all.

Which one is the Warner transcript? Sawyer's testimony is handy--in a negative way. If he says it, it's probably not true. I used to take his word for it that officers at the scene told him "5th floor". Then, much later, I realized--his 12:46 "I dunno

why the hell anyone's talking about the depository. I never heard no stinkin' depository mentioned" (or words to that effect)--cancelled out those "officers". He only heard, finally, from the dispatcher, during that exchange, that someone might possibly
have been skulking about the building. Of course, that also eliminates him from the Brennan sweepstakes. As you yourself have reinforced with your researches into Sawyer.

dcw

SA Warner, probably FBI, made the first transcript, as I understand it, but he didn't understand much of it, so it was sent back to the DPD for transcription. https://postimg.cc/phqtZn4w

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 11:07:35 -0700 (PDT), donald willis
<dcwillis9@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:01:34?AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:52:05?AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45?AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote: >>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:21:13?AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "About the

time I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the
dispatcher, "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill apparently got

to Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here, we found empty
rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the third floor.
And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed deputies

started down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three searchers,
then, must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned talking to

Sawyer soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here. Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

Do we know he really said that? That recording does not seem to be available.

Trask cites an unspecified "audio tape", and the post-Sawyer
Exhibit DPD transcription (by your 2nd-favorite DPD Sergeant, Bowles;
after Hill) and the FBI transcription both say "3rd floor". Yeah, I
know, though--I have the tapes of both channels 1 & 2, but one of them
cuts off early. I trust them on this point, though--why would they
want to make trouble for the DPD? Which they have...

dcw

This is a common concept in Bible studies... to prefer the "difficult"
reading to the one that tries to smooth problems out.

And just as valid here.

Judge competing evidence by which is more "difficult"... such as
whether or not the original FBI report stated that the paper bag was
made of paper *NOT* identical to the paper in the TSBD... https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_Proof_the_FBI_Changed_Documents_and_Vincent_Bugliosi_Was_Wrong.html

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 10:23:03 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:01:34 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:52:05 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:21:13 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "About

the time I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the
dispatcher, "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill apparently

got to Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here, we found
empty rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the third
floor. And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed deputies

started down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three searchers,
then, must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned talking

to Sawyer soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here. Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

Do we know he really said that? That recording does not seem to be available.

The Warner transcript and Sawyers WC testimony both say this was "5th floor." The McAdams says "3rd." Some transcripts don't have it at all.

Which one is the Warner transcript? Sawyer's testimony is handy--in a negative way. If he says it, it's probably not true. I used to take his word for it that officers at the scene told him "5th floor". Then, much later, I realized--his 12:46 "I
dunno why the hell anyone's talking about the depository. I never heard no stinkin' depository mentioned" (or words to that effect)--cancelled out those "officers". He only heard, finally, from the dispatcher, during that exchange, that someone might
possibly have been skulking about the building. Of course, that also eliminates him from the Brennan sweepstakes. As you yourself have reinforced with your researches into Sawyer.

dcw

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 2:09:37 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:32:21 AM UTC-7, John Corbett wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:52:05 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here.

I'm glad somebody does. I would hate for you to have gone through all this work for nothing.

I notice YOU don't have an idea, better or not. Just lame sarcasm.

I don't bother searching for relevance in irrelevant facts. That's your game.

Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

If that's how you arrive at the answer you want.

Still no ideas from John Robot...

I have ideas, but you probably don't want to hear them.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 3:30:38 PM UTC-7, John Corbett wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 2:09:37 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 9:32:21 AM UTC-7, John Corbett wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:52:05 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here.

I'm glad somebody does. I would hate for you to have gone through all this work for nothing.

I notice YOU don't have an idea, better or not. Just lame sarcasm.

I don't bother searching for relevance in irrelevant facts. That's your game.

Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

If that's how you arrive at the answer you want.

Still no ideas from John Robot...

I have ideas, but you probably don't want to hear them.

Thus spake John Robot

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 2:36:29 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 2:16:24 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 10:23:03 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:01:34 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 11:52:05 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 12:19:45 AM UTC-7, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 12:21:13 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:

Sgt. Hill's 6th-floor tale of the shells, part 1: Why Sawyer said "third floor"

At an unspecified time, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill "yelled down to the street", just after seeing "three spent shells" lying on the floor in the depository. "Not getting any indication from the street that they heard me", Hill went out front. "

About the time I got to the street, Lt. Day from the DPD Crime Lab was arriving..." (v7pp46-47) Day noted the time of his arrival: "about 1:12". Hence, Hill yelled out about 1:10. In other words, about two minutes before DPD Insp. J.H. Sawyer radioed the
dispatcher, "We have found empty rifle hulls on the fifth floor..." (v6p322) Joy in Mudville. Joy because, from the outside, the sixth floor can easily be mistaken for the fifth floor.

In fact, after talking to Day, Hill "went over to... Sawyer, telling him what we found." (v7p47) Apparently, Sawyer *hadn't* heard him yell. Everybody was at the front of the depository at the same time--Hill, Day, Sawyer. And Hill

apparently got to Sawyer just before his 1:12 transmission. I say "before", first, because of an oddity in the DPD's 3/20/64 transcription of the latter. According to it, what Sawyer actually radioed was "On the 3rd floor of this book company down here,
we found empty rifle hulls..." (CE 705 p78 and CE 1974 page 176, the former the DPD's transcription, the latter, the FBI's 8/11/64 transcription) Researchers have always wondered why Sawyer said "third" since no sniper activity was ever suggested on the
third floor. And if Sawyer actually meant the fifth floor--or the third floor down from the top of the building--why didn't he say so? No other officer that day numbered floors from the top. Was this a personal quirk of Sawyer's?

As it happens, No. The answer to this puzzle lies in Hill's testimony. "So, we went into the building... We went up to the seventh floor... These two deputies and I [then] went down to the sixth." (v7pp45,46) So, Hill and the unnamed

deputies started down again after searching up to the top floor. Natural, then, for these three men to start counting *down* from the top floor. But Sawyer did not radio "second floor" or "second floor from the top". He radioed "third floor". The three
searchers, then, must have gotten back down to at least the fifth floor, or the "third floor from the top". Sawyer did not hear what Hill shouted from the upper floor, but he heard "third floor" from him directly. Or, perhaps, from one of the deputies.

In fact, Deputy Luke Mooney testified that "I went on up to the seventh floor... I says I am going back down on six.... So I went back down ahead of Officers Vickery and Webster." (v3p284) However, none of the three deputies mentioned

talking to Sawyer soon afterwards. Mooney, in fact, seems to rule himself out as Sawyer's informant. In his 11/23/63 statement, he ends, "We continued to search the building for a suspect." (v19p528)

Mudville in suspense...

Maybe Hill had heard Mooney's story and simply inserted himself into it in order to pretend that he had been there, so that he could have an alibi for the shooting on Tenth Street. And Sawyer, who the hell knows why he said 3rd floor?

Well, until someone comes up with a better idea, I like my own explanation here. Searchers coming down from the 7th floor *would* count the number of floors down they were on.

Do we know he really said that? That recording does not seem to be available.

The Warner transcript and Sawyers WC testimony both say this was "5th floor." The McAdams says "3rd." Some transcripts don't have it at all.

Which one is the Warner transcript? Sawyer's testimony is handy--in a negative way. If he says it, it's probably not true. I used to take his word for it that officers at the scene told him "5th floor". Then, much later, I realized--his 12:46 "I

dunno why the hell anyone's talking about the depository. I never heard no stinkin' depository mentioned" (or words to that effect)--cancelled out those "officers". He only heard, finally, from the dispatcher, during that exchange, that someone might
possibly have been skulking about the building. Of course, that also eliminates him from the Brennan sweepstakes. As you yourself have reinforced with your researches into Sawyer.

dcw

SA Warner, probably FBI, made the first transcript, as I understand it, but he didn't understand much of it, so it was sent back to the DPD for transcription. https://postimg.cc/phqtZn4w

I think Sawyer probably said "5th floor," which is possibly correct, and that somebody changed it to "3rd floor" which is an impossibility. Somebody was shooting on the 5th floor, so THEY would not want that to be known. Whereas, THEY wouldn't care if we
thought he said "3rd floor" because nobody was shooting from there; it doesn't matter if we think he said that. Though one might think that THEY would have changed it to "6th floor." Maybe THEY thought some added confusion would be nice.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 15:30:36 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett
<geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

I have ideas, but you probably don't want to hear them.

No - NO-ONE is interested in your "ideas." What holds our interest is
the EVIDENCE, and logical argument BASED on the evidence.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)