1. Forum
  2. Usenet
  3. ALT.CONSPIRACY.JFK

  • What the polling tells us about the JFK assassination

    From John Corbett@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 16 04:25:55 2023
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the
    average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who
    think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent. The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so
    small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if they think the earth is flat.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sky Throne 19efppp@21:1/5 to John Corbett on Sun Jul 16 06:24:37 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who
    think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so
    small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if they think the earth is flat.

    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 16 07:07:37 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so
    small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."

    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 16 07:24:37 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:16:14 AM UTC-5, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:07:38 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.

    I don't argue for Oswald's innocence.

    What do you argue in favor of?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sky Throne 19efppp@21:1/5 to John Corbett on Sun Jul 16 07:16:12 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:07:38 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help. It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.

    I don't argue for Oswald's innocence.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sky Throne 19efppp@21:1/5 to Chuck Schuyler on Sun Jul 16 07:28:45 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:24:39 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:16:14 AM UTC-5, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:07:38 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the
    average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who
    think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.

    I don't argue for Oswald's innocence.
    What do you argue in favor of?

    Conspiracy, with a guilty Oswald.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to John Corbett on Sun Jul 16 07:23:59 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:07:38 AM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help. It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.

    I'm going to make a little prediction.

    We're coming up on the 60th anniversary of the assassination, and for the 50th anniversary, some polling indicated that belief in a JFK conspiracy had gone down from previous years' polling.

    My prediction for upcoming polling ahead of the 60th anniversary, is that we will see an increase in people who believe JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy. I base this on the belief that many people feel the 2020 election was "thrown" to Biden,
    the revelations that COVID was in all probability engineered in a Chinese lab and not natural, and prominent media personalities like Tucker Carlson questioning the JFK assassination, as well as the emergence of RFK Jr. as a Presidential candidate who of
    course believes his uncle (and father) were both assassinated by a conspiracy of some sort.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Chuck Schuyler on Sun Jul 16 07:34:34 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:24:01 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:07:38 AM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.
    I'm going to make a little prediction.

    We're coming up on the 60th anniversary of the assassination, and for the 50th anniversary, some polling indicated that belief in a JFK conspiracy had gone down from previous years' polling.

    My prediction for upcoming polling ahead of the 60th anniversary, is that we will see an increase in people who believe JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy. I base this on the belief that many people feel the 2020 election was "thrown" to Biden,
    the revelations that COVID was in all probability engineered in a Chinese lab and not natural, and prominent media personalities like Tucker Carlson questioning the JFK assassination, as well as the emergence of RFK Jr. as a Presidential candidate who of
    course believes his uncle (and father) were both assassinated by a conspiracy of some sort.

    I don`t know. Like bigdog pointed out, the phrasing of the questions make it difficult to figure out what people think regarding the event. The polls will often give the choices like "One man" or "others involved". Is the "one man" Oswald? Are the "
    others involved" including Oswald?

    I would say the number of people who have sufficient information to have an informed opinion is dwindling by the minute.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 16 07:35:06 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:28:47 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:24:39 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:16:14 AM UTC-5, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:07:38 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the
    average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who
    think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so
    small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.

    I don't argue for Oswald's innocence.
    What do you argue in favor of?
    Conspiracy, with a guilty Oswald.

    Conspiring with who?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sky Throne 19efppp@21:1/5 to Bud on Sun Jul 16 07:42:09 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:35:07 AM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:28:47 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:24:39 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:16:14 AM UTC-5, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:07:38 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the
    average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who
    think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so
    small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.

    I don't argue for Oswald's innocence.
    What do you argue in favor of?
    Conspiracy, with a guilty Oswald.
    Conspiring with who?

    You're too stupid to talk about that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Chuck Schuyler on Sun Jul 16 08:08:18 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:24:01 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:07:38 AM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.
    I'm going to make a little prediction.

    We're coming up on the 60th anniversary of the assassination, and for the 50th anniversary, some polling indicated that belief in a JFK conspiracy had gone down from previous years' polling.

    My prediction for upcoming polling ahead of the 60th anniversary, is that we will see an increase in people who believe JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy. I base this on the belief that many people feel the 2020 election was "thrown" to Biden,
    the revelations that COVID was in all probability engineered in a Chinese lab and not natural, and prominent media personalities like Tucker Carlson questioning the JFK assassination, as well as the emergence of RFK Jr. as a Presidential candidate who of
    course believes his uncle (and father) were both assassinated by a conspiracy of some sort.

    Maybe I'm naive but I think there is a disconnect between people's beliefs regarding the JFK
    assassination and their overall political views. Leading up to the 2013 polling, the number of
    people who believed there had been a conspiracy had dropped over 20 points to 61% of the
    population. If the question is polled again in 2023, and I suspect it will be, I expect the number
    of conspiracy believers will fall below 60%. I don't ever expect to see the day the LN position
    will be the majority view but we are moving in that direction. Once all those who were
    alive when JFK was assassinated have passed on, the public will look at the question more
    objectively. At that point I think it will be the majority view that Oswald acted alone.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Bud on Sun Jul 16 08:17:37 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:34:35 AM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:24:01 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:07:38 AM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the
    average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who
    think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.
    I'm going to make a little prediction.

    We're coming up on the 60th anniversary of the assassination, and for the 50th anniversary, some polling indicated that belief in a JFK conspiracy had gone down from previous years' polling.

    My prediction for upcoming polling ahead of the 60th anniversary, is that we will see an increase in people who believe JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy. I base this on the belief that many people feel the 2020 election was "thrown" to
    Biden, the revelations that COVID was in all probability engineered in a Chinese lab and not natural, and prominent media personalities like Tucker Carlson questioning the JFK assassination, as well as the emergence of RFK Jr. as a Presidential candidate
    who of course believes his uncle (and father) were both assassinated by a conspiracy of some sort.
    I don`t know. Like bigdog pointed out, the phrasing of the questions make it difficult to figure out what people think regarding the event. The polls will often give the choices like "One man" or "others involved". Is the "one man" Oswald? Are the "
    others involved" including Oswald?

    I would say the number of people who have sufficient information to have an informed opinion is dwindling by the minute.

    I see four possible answers.

    1. Oswald alone.

    2. Oswald as part of a conspiracy.

    3. Conspiracy with Oswald innocent.

    4. A lone assassin who was not Oswald.

    In all my years, I have never heard anyone argue for #4 but maybe there is somebody out
    there who holds that view. The next least popular view has to be #3. Outside of the hardcore
    CTs on these discussion boards, I've never heard anybody who holds to that position. Clearly
    the most popular view is #2 but the gap between #2 and #1 had been shrinking up until the
    last time I saw the question polled. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the next time the
    question is posed, the gap between those two viewpoints will be 20 points or less.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to Bud on Sun Jul 16 16:02:56 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:34:35 AM UTC-5, Bud wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:24:01 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:07:38 AM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the
    average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who
    think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.
    I'm going to make a little prediction.

    We're coming up on the 60th anniversary of the assassination, and for the 50th anniversary, some polling indicated that belief in a JFK conspiracy had gone down from previous years' polling.

    My prediction for upcoming polling ahead of the 60th anniversary, is that we will see an increase in people who believe JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy. I base this on the belief that many people feel the 2020 election was "thrown" to
    Biden, the revelations that COVID was in all probability engineered in a Chinese lab and not natural, and prominent media personalities like Tucker Carlson questioning the JFK assassination, as well as the emergence of RFK Jr. as a Presidential candidate
    who of course believes his uncle (and father) were both assassinated by a conspiracy of some sort.
    I don`t know. Like bigdog pointed out, the phrasing of the questions make it difficult to figure out what people think regarding the event. The polls will often give the choices like "One man" or "others involved". Is the "one man" Oswald? Are the "
    others involved" including Oswald?

    Yes, the article here says the question asked something to the effect, "Do you believe one man was responsible for the assassination of John F Kennedy," which I guess could mean--the way the poll question seems to be phrased--that some people believe one
    man not named Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK, so perhaps no conspiracy with an unknown lone gunman forever at large. The story then cites the Gallup poll as saying 30% of Americans (this poll was in 2013) believe Oswald was the lone gunman. The poll
    question (or perhaps the news story about the poll) could've been clearer.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/165893/majority-believe-jfk-killed-conspiracy.aspx

    I would say the number of people who have sufficient information to have an informed opinion is dwindling by the minute.

    True.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Chuck Schuyler on Sun Jul 16 16:37:10 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:02:58 PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:34:35 AM UTC-5, Bud wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:24:01 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:07:38 AM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the
    average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who
    think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so
    small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.
    I'm going to make a little prediction.

    We're coming up on the 60th anniversary of the assassination, and for the 50th anniversary, some polling indicated that belief in a JFK conspiracy had gone down from previous years' polling.

    My prediction for upcoming polling ahead of the 60th anniversary, is that we will see an increase in people who believe JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy. I base this on the belief that many people feel the 2020 election was "thrown" to
    Biden, the revelations that COVID was in all probability engineered in a Chinese lab and not natural, and prominent media personalities like Tucker Carlson questioning the JFK assassination, as well as the emergence of RFK Jr. as a Presidential candidate
    who of course believes his uncle (and father) were both assassinated by a conspiracy of some sort.
    I don`t know. Like bigdog pointed out, the phrasing of the questions make it difficult to figure out what people think regarding the event. The polls will often give the choices like "One man" or "others involved". Is the "one man" Oswald? Are the "
    others involved" including Oswald?
    Yes, the article here says the question asked something to the effect, "Do you believe one man was responsible for the assassination of John F Kennedy," which I guess could mean--the way the poll question seems to be phrased--that some people believe
    one man not named Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK, so perhaps no conspiracy with an unknown lone gunman forever at large. The story then cites the Gallup poll as saying 30% of Americans (this poll was in 2013) believe Oswald was the lone gunman. The poll
    question (or perhaps the news story about the poll) could've been clearer.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/165893/majority-believe-jfk-killed-conspiracy.aspx

    I always end up with more question than answers when it comes to polls (and the articles written that include them). Like this one you linked to, it says...

    "In a poll conducted Nov. 22-27, 1963, Gallup found that 29% of Americans believed one man was responsible for the shooting and 52% believed others were involved in a conspiracy."

    But it seems to me that the conspiracy belief early on was the Russians and/or the Cubans putting Oswald up to killing Kennedy. Dallas police were speculating openly about this, and this is what the Katzenbach memo was really about, throwing water on
    this dangerous idea that could get us into WWIII. Somewhere along the way conspiracy belief morphed into everybody but the commies.

    The next line is even more confusing....

    "A majority of Americans have maintained that "others were involved" in the shooting each time Gallup has asked this question over the past 50 years, except December 1966, when exactly half of Americans said someone in addition to Oswald was
    responsible."

    If 50% of the people think Oswald did it alone and the other half believe he conspired with others than 100% of the people believe Oswald was involved. That seems dubious.



    I would say the number of people who have sufficient information to have an informed opinion is dwindling by the minute.
    True.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Bud on Sun Jul 16 16:59:04 2023
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:37:12 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:02:58 PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:34:35 AM UTC-5, Bud wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 10:24:01 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:07:38 AM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:24:39 AM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 7:25:57 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a
    result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the
    average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who
    think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling
    had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so
    small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if
    they think the earth is flat.
    Well, maybe what the American people think, and not what the court historians think, really is the "history."
    Except for a small fringe group of kooks, pretty much everyone believes Oswald was an
    assassin, whether they believe he acted alone or as part of a conspiracy. There is no reasonable
    argument to be made for his innocence.
    I'm going to make a little prediction.

    We're coming up on the 60th anniversary of the assassination, and for the 50th anniversary, some polling indicated that belief in a JFK conspiracy had gone down from previous years' polling.

    My prediction for upcoming polling ahead of the 60th anniversary, is that we will see an increase in people who believe JFK was killed as a result of a conspiracy. I base this on the belief that many people feel the 2020 election was "thrown" to
    Biden, the revelations that COVID was in all probability engineered in a Chinese lab and not natural, and prominent media personalities like Tucker Carlson questioning the JFK assassination, as well as the emergence of RFK Jr. as a Presidential candidate
    who of course believes his uncle (and father) were both assassinated by a conspiracy of some sort.
    I don`t know. Like bigdog pointed out, the phrasing of the questions make it difficult to figure out what people think regarding the event. The polls will often give the choices like "One man" or "others involved". Is the "one man" Oswald? Are the "
    others involved" including Oswald?
    Yes, the article here says the question asked something to the effect, "Do you believe one man was responsible for the assassination of John F Kennedy," which I guess could mean--the way the poll question seems to be phrased--that some people believe
    one man not named Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK, so perhaps no conspiracy with an unknown lone gunman forever at large. The story then cites the Gallup poll as saying 30% of Americans (this poll was in 2013) believe Oswald was the lone gunman. The poll
    question (or perhaps the news story about the poll) could've been clearer.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/165893/majority-believe-jfk-killed-conspiracy.aspx
    I always end up with more question than answers when it comes to polls (and the articles written that include them). Like this one you linked to, it says...

    "In a poll conducted Nov. 22-27, 1963, Gallup found that 29% of Americans believed one man was responsible for the shooting and 52% believed others were involved in a conspiracy."

    But it seems to me that the conspiracy belief early on was the Russians and/or the Cubans putting Oswald up to killing Kennedy. Dallas police were speculating openly about this, and this is what the Katzenbach memo was really about, throwing water on
    this dangerous idea that could get us into WWIII. Somewhere along the way conspiracy belief morphed into everybody but the commies.

    The next line is even more confusing....

    "A majority of Americans have maintained that "others were involved" in the shooting each time Gallup has asked this question over the past 50 years, except December 1966, when exactly half of Americans said someone in addition to Oswald was
    responsible."

    If 50% of the people think Oswald did it alone and the other half believe he conspired with others than 100% of the people believe Oswald was involved. That seems dubious.

    Most of the polls I've seen take it as a given that Oswald was involved and the pollsters seem
    to only be interested in one of two possibilities, Oswald alone or Oswald with others. While it
    is understandable that they would believe that given the overwhelming evidence of Oswald's
    guilt, a truly unbiased poll would at least offer Oswald innocent as an option. I can remember
    a few polls from earlier that did offer that option and I am pretty sure that polled in the single
    digits, maybe even low single digits. Most conspiracy hobbyists, no matter what flavor of
    conspiracy they believe in, accept Oswald's guilt.

    I know of two polls taken in 2013, Gallup and 538. I've seen none since but that doesn't mean
    no one has polled the question. Both Gallup and 538 gave very similar results. 61% still
    believed in conspiracy while 29 or 30% believed Oswald alone. That means 9-10% either were
    undecided or had no opinion.

    We may or may not see more polling as the 60th anniversary nears. I think pollsters recognize
    that most of the public has completely lost interest in the subject. Recently Glenn Beck came
    out as a CT and in a recent episode of Gutfeld, he seemed to indicate he believed it was more
    than just Oswald. I suspect both these men are about as well informed about the facts of the
    case as most Americans which is to say they are pretty poorly informed. There simply is no
    compelling evidence that anybody other than Oswald was involved.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Wed Jul 19 07:03:38 2023
    On Sun, 16 Jul 2023 04:25:55 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    Poll after poll reveal that a majority of Americans believe JFK died as a >result of a conspiracy. The number fluctuates, but over the years, the >average result indicates that conspiracy believers outnumber those who
    think Oswald acted alone by about a 2-1 margin. What is revealing is that
    it is hard to find any poll that asks people if they think Oswald was innocent.
    The question is almost always about whether people believe he had help.
    It is accepted as fact that he murdered JFK and J.D. Tippit. Prior polling >had indicated the number of people who think Oswald was framed is so
    small as to not even worth bothering with. It would be like asking people if >they think the earth is flat.

    I find it funny that you're trying to use the very polls you don't
    believe...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to chuckschuyler123@gmail.com on Wed Jul 19 07:03:38 2023
    On Sun, 16 Jul 2023 07:24:37 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler <chuckschuyler123@gmail.com> wrote:


    What do you argue in favor of?

    A question *YOU* are incapable of answering.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)