• Vincent Bugliosi's 53 Reasons - #40 - Refuted

    From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 14 07:23:32 2023
    (40) The four cartridge shells found at the Tippit murder scene were
    fired from Oswald's revolver.

    Chain of custody issues raise their ugly head again. I'm quite sure
    that many people are aware that radio transmissions from the scene of
    the Tippit murder stated that the murderer was armed with an
    automatic. This is easily determined from the cartridges. Revolver
    cartridges have a rim that's larger than the case body - that stops
    the cartridge from moving too far into the cylinder chamber. Automatic cartridges, on the other hand, have a rim the *same size* as the case.

    Example of a revolver cartridge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:38_Special_-_FMJ_-_SB_-_2.jpg
    Example of an Automatic cartridge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:380_ACP_-_FMJ_-_SB_-_2.jpg

    The differences to an experienced police officer are obvious and can
    VERY QUICKLY be determined... but this caused a problem because Oswald
    didn't carry an automatic.

    Now, because "Bud" likes to spit on fellow believer B.T. George -
    here's what B.T. George so incompetently summarized:

    40. Four expended cartridge cases were found near the site of the
    Tippit killing. Firearms experts from the Warren Commission and the
    HSCA concluded that all four were fired in and ejected from Oswald's
    Smith & Wesson revolver to the exclusion of all other weapons.


    First, the HSCA had no way to independently examine these facts - so
    Bugliosi is pretending a depth of investigation that simply doesn't
    exist.

    Second, and I've pointed this out before... the WC had to go "expert
    hunting" to find an expert willing to contradict the FBI on this
    issue.

    That tells an intelligent person all you need to know about this
    "evidence."


    At the time of his arrest, then, Oswald owned and had in his possession
    the revolver used to kill Tippit.


    Begging the question...


    Also at the time of his arrest, he
    was carrying in one of his pockets five live .38 Special cartridges.


    Was he?


    So we know that not only was Oswald the owner and possessor of the
    rifle that killed Kennedy, but he was also the owner and possessor of
    the revolver that killed Tippit.


    Begging the question again and REPEATEDLY!


    In a city of more than 700,000 people, what is the probability of one
    of them being the owner and possessor of the weapons that murdered both Kennedy and Tippit, and yet still be innocent of both murders?


    Can anyone name this logical fallacy?


    Aren't we talking about DNA numbers here, like one out of several
    billion or trillion? Is there any mathematician in the house?


    Either Oswald owned the relevant weapons, or he did not. This isn't a
    question for mathmaticians... Bugliosi is committing another logical
    fallacy here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to donald willis on Fri Jul 14 12:56:49 2023
    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 3:53:40 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 7:23:36 AM UTC-7, Ben Holmes wrote:
    (40) The four cartridge shells found at the Tippit murder scene were
    fired from Oswald's revolver.

    Chain of custody issues raise their ugly head again. I'm quite sure
    that many people are aware that radio transmissions from the scene of
    the Tippit murder stated that the murderer was armed with an
    automatic. This is easily determined from the cartridges. Revolver cartridges have a rim that's larger than the case body - that stops
    the cartridge from moving too far into the cylinder chamber. Automatic cartridges, on the other hand, have a rim the *same size* as the case.

    Example of a revolver cartridge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:38_Special_-_FMJ_-_SB_-_2.jpg
    Example of an Automatic cartridge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:380_ACP_-_FMJ_-_SB_-_2.jpg

    The differences to an experienced police officer are obvious and can
    VERY QUICKLY be determined... but this caused a problem because Oswald didn't carry an automatic.
    Let's guess how LNs are going to respond: Sgt. Hill did not even look at the slugs in the cigarette pack. This cancels out info re the shape of the bullets. It also cancels out Dale Myers' info re what was stamped on the bullets. However, it does not
    cancel out Patrolman Summers' echoing transmission re an apparent automatic pistol seen by a witness.

    What evidential value does that have?

    dcw


    CUT . Bugliosi is committing another logical
    fallacy here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From donald willis@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Fri Jul 14 12:53:39 2023
    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 7:23:36 AM UTC-7, Ben Holmes wrote:
    (40) The four cartridge shells found at the Tippit murder scene were
    fired from Oswald's revolver.

    Chain of custody issues raise their ugly head again. I'm quite sure
    that many people are aware that radio transmissions from the scene of
    the Tippit murder stated that the murderer was armed with an
    automatic. This is easily determined from the cartridges. Revolver cartridges have a rim that's larger than the case body - that stops
    the cartridge from moving too far into the cylinder chamber. Automatic cartridges, on the other hand, have a rim the *same size* as the case.

    Example of a revolver cartridge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:38_Special_-_FMJ_-_SB_-_2.jpg
    Example of an Automatic cartridge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:380_ACP_-_FMJ_-_SB_-_2.jpg

    The differences to an experienced police officer are obvious and can
    VERY QUICKLY be determined... but this caused a problem because Oswald didn't carry an automatic.

    Let's guess how LNs are going to respond: Sgt. Hill did not even look at the slugs in the cigarette pack. This cancels out info re the shape of the bullets. It also cancels out Dale Myers' info re what was stamped on the bullets. However, it does
    not cancel out Patrolman Summers' echoing transmission re an apparent automatic pistol seen by a witness.

    dcw


    CUT . Bugliosi is committing another logical
    fallacy here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 19 07:03:38 2023
    On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 12:56:49 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirslick@fast.net>
    wrote:

    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 3:53:40?PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 7:23:36?AM UTC-7, Ben Holmes wrote:
    (40) The four cartridge shells found at the Tippit murder scene were
    fired from Oswald's revolver.

    Chain of custody issues raise their ugly head again. I'm quite sure
    that many people are aware that radio transmissions from the scene of
    the Tippit murder stated that the murderer was armed with an
    automatic. This is easily determined from the cartridges. Revolver
    cartridges have a rim that's larger than the case body - that stops
    the cartridge from moving too far into the cylinder chamber. Automatic
    cartridges, on the other hand, have a rim the *same size* as the case.

    Example of a revolver cartridge:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:38_Special_-_FMJ_-_SB_-_2.jpg
    Example of an Automatic cartridge:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:380_ACP_-_FMJ_-_SB_-_2.jpg

    The differences to an experienced police officer are obvious and can
    VERY QUICKLY be determined... but this caused a problem because Oswald
    didn't carry an automatic.

    Let's guess how LNs are going to respond: Sgt. Hill did not even
    look at the slugs in the cigarette pack. This cancels out info re the
    shape of the bullets. It also cancels out Dale Myers' info re what was
    stamped on the bullets. However, it does not cancel out Patrolman
    Summers' echoing transmission re an apparent automatic pistol seen
    by a witness.

    What evidential value does that have?


    Clearly enough to prevent you from defending Bugs...


    dcw


    CUT . Bugliosi is committing another logical
    fallacy here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)