• "Evidence" that was never positively identified

    From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 11 04:45:15 2023
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the court
    to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Tue Jul 11 06:20:16 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the court
    to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    Gil continues to make asinine excuses for disregarding the evidence that proves conclusively
    Oswald assassinated JFK. He knows little about the rules of evidence and pretends to be an
    expert.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Tue Jul 11 07:21:49 2023
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 06:20:16 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    Gil continues to make asinine excuses for disregarding the evidence


    Corbutt continues to ignore and make asinine excuses to contradict
    American law.


    that proves conclusively Oswald assassinated JFK


    Most of America disagrees with your wacky assertion...


    He knows little about the rules of evidence ...


    Prove it. Give us a citation...

    But you won't ... you're a coward.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Tue Jul 11 07:39:18 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:45:17 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the court
    to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence and Oswald's "Johnny Cochrane" would've been allowed to attack it as he saw fit to do so. The jury would weigh what was presented and decide.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Tue Jul 11 07:41:03 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 9:21:54 AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 06:20:16 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett
    <geowri...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    Gil continues to make asinine excuses for disregarding the evidence
    Corbutt continues to ignore and make asinine excuses to contradict
    American law.
    that proves conclusively Oswald assassinated JFK

    Most of America disagrees with your wacky assertion...

    Most of America disagrees with your wacky assertion that JFK's body had a secret autopsy to alter the so-called bullets fired from other parts of Dealey Plaza and that LBJ was the mastermind behind the assassination.


    He knows little about the rules of evidence ...


    Prove it. Give us a citation...

    But you won't ... you're a coward.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to chuckschuyler123@gmail.com on Tue Jul 11 08:19:55 2023
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler <chuckschuyler123@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:45:17?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence...

    When did you get your law degree?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to John Corbett on Tue Jul 11 08:35:51 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 9:20:18 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.
    Gil continues to make asinine excuses for disregarding the evidence that proves conclusively
    Oswald assassinated JFK. He knows little about the rules of evidence and pretends to be an
    expert.

    As usual, you haven't refuted one single thing that I've listed.
    No citations
    No documents
    No testimony
    No exhibits
    No witness videos
    You do no research on your own, preferring to take the lazy way out and fall back on the conclusions of the Warren Report.
    What you DO post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults.
    A person can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from your posts.
    .johnny must be rolling over in his grave.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to Chuck Schuyler on Tue Jul 11 08:36:19 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:39:19 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:45:17 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence and Oswald's "Johnny Cochrane" would've been allowed to attack it as he saw fit to do so. The jury would weigh what was presented and decide.

    As usual, you haven't refuted one single thing that I've listed.
    No citations
    No documents
    No testimony
    No exhibits
    No witness videos
    You do no research on your own, preferring to take the lazy way out and fall back on the conclusions of the Warren Report.
    What you DO post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults.
    A person can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from your posts.
    .johnny must be rolling over in his grave.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Tue Jul 11 08:41:45 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:19:59 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence...

    When did you get your law degree?

    He got it at the Josef Stalin School of Law.

    This case would have never made it to trial by today's standards.

    NEVER.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Tue Jul 11 10:12:08 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case.

    You`re lying. It is the first person to collect the evidence, that is the person who is in control of the evidence, not the first person who came in contact with it.

    After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Show that it is the person who found it must be in the chain of custody.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Show that it is the person who found it must be in the chain of custody.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    How could he unless he marked it?

    In any case, it is the first official to take control of the evidence that is the first person in the chain of cutody.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Did he take possession of them?

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Civilians don`t do that. How could they?

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    Again, the chain of custody begins when law enforcement officials take possession. When they have control of the evidence, that is when the chain of custody begins.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    How do you make positive identifications of things?

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    Presumably the people handling the case would understand how chain of custody works.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Tue Jul 11 10:13:44 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:36:21 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:39:19 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:45:17 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence and Oswald's "Johnny Cochrane" would've been allowed to attack it as he saw fit to do so. The jury would weigh what was presented and decide.

    As usual, you haven't refuted one single thing that I've listed.

    ...to your satisfaction, an impossible hurdle to clear. You are shifting the burden. Provide statements from those who arrested Oswald, investigated the homicides, etc. who agree that all of the evidence you listed wouldn't be allowed into a criminal
    trial. Your claim, your burden to carry. Carry it.

    No citations

    Fringe reset. Stop acting like we need to constantly go back to 11/22/63. Ample citations have been provided but you accept nothing.

    No documents

    Fringe reset. Endlessly provided, but never to your satisfaction. Make a positive case and stop asking us to address your nit-picks.

    No testimony

    Fringe reset. Endlessly testimony has been linked to and sent your way. You don't like it or accept it.

    No exhibits

    Fringe reset. You are aware of all of the major exhibits and even gave exhibit numbers above that you don't accept. What exhibits would you accept?

    No witness videos

    Fringe reset. Plenty of witness videos, interviews, etc. have been provided over the years. You disagree with them.

    You do no research on your own, preferring to take the lazy way out and fall back on the conclusions of the Warren Report.

    You "research" on your own yet cannot tell us ANYTHING about who did it, how it happened, etc. You're as useful as tits on a bull.

    What you DO post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults.

    Welcome to Usenet. Send your research here:

    https://www.jfklibrary.org/

    A person can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from your posts.

    Says the guy who's been "researching" this for decades yet has no clue about what happened.

    .johnny must be rolling over in his grave.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck Schuyler@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Tue Jul 11 10:17:37 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:41:47 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:19:59 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence...

    When did you get your law degree?

    He got it at the Josef Stalin School of Law.

    Do you have a law degree, Gil?

    This case would have never made it to trial by today's standards.

    Because we still don't criminally prosecute an accused if they're dead, stupid. Same standards today as in 1963.

    NEVER.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From robert johnson@21:1/5 to Chuck Schuyler on Tue Jul 11 10:18:18 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:13:45 PM UTC+1, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:36:21 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:39:19 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:45:17 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence and Oswald's "Johnny Cochrane" would've been allowed to attack it as he saw fit to do so. The jury would weigh what was presented and decide.

    As usual, you haven't refuted one single thing that I've listed.
    ...to your satisfaction, an impossible hurdle to clear. You are shifting the burden. Provide statements from those who arrested Oswald, investigated the homicides, etc. who agree that all of the evidence you listed wouldn't be allowed into a criminal
    trial. Your claim, your burden to carry. Carry it.

    No citations

    Fringe reset. Stop acting like we need to constantly go back to 11/22/63. Ample citations have been provided but you accept nothing.

    No documents

    Fringe reset. Endlessly provided, but never to your satisfaction. Make a positive case and stop asking us to address your nit-picks.

    No testimony

    Fringe reset. Endlessly testimony has been linked to and sent your way. You don't like it or accept it.

    No exhibits

    Fringe reset. You are aware of all of the major exhibits and even gave exhibit numbers above that you don't accept. What exhibits would you accept?

    No witness videos

    Fringe reset. Plenty of witness videos, interviews, etc. have been provided over the years. You disagree with them.
    You do no research on your own, preferring to take the lazy way out and fall back on the conclusions of the Warren Report.
    You "research" on your own yet cannot tell us ANYTHING about who did it, how it happened, etc. You're as useful as tits on a bull.
    What you DO post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults.
    Welcome to Usenet. Send your research here:

    https://www.jfklibrary.org/
    A person can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from your posts.
    Says the guy who's been "researching" this for decades yet has no clue about what happened.
    .johnny must be rolling over in his grave.


    Says the guy who hasn't got a clue what case file evidence consists of.
    Says a guy who has zero common sense.
    I could go on.....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From robert johnson@21:1/5 to Chuck Schuyler on Tue Jul 11 10:16:56 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:13:45 PM UTC+1, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:36:21 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:39:19 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:45:17 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence and Oswald's "Johnny Cochrane" would've been allowed to attack it as he saw fit to do so. The jury would weigh what was presented and decide.

    As usual, you haven't refuted one single thing that I've listed.
    ...to your satisfaction, an impossible hurdle to clear. You are shifting the burden. Provide statements from those who arrested Oswald, investigated the homicides, etc. who agree that all of the evidence you listed wouldn't be allowed into a criminal
    trial. Your claim, your burden to carry. Carry it.

    No citations

    Fringe reset. Stop acting like we need to constantly go back to 11/22/63. Ample citations have been provided but you accept nothing.

    No documents

    Fringe reset. Endlessly provided, but never to your satisfaction. Make a positive case and stop asking us to address your nit-picks.

    No testimony

    Fringe reset. Endlessly testimony has been linked to and sent your way. You don't like it or accept it.

    No exhibits

    Fringe reset. You are aware of all of the major exhibits and even gave exhibit numbers above that you don't accept. What exhibits would you accept?

    No witness videos

    Fringe reset. Plenty of witness videos, interviews, etc. have been provided over the years. You disagree with them.
    You do no research on your own, preferring to take the lazy way out and fall back on the conclusions of the Warren Report.
    You "research" on your own yet cannot tell us ANYTHING about who did it, how it happened, etc. You're as useful as tits on a bull.
    What you DO post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults.
    Welcome to Usenet. Send your research here:

    https://www.jfklibrary.org/
    A person can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from your posts.
    Says the guy who's been "researching" this for decades yet has no clue about what happened.
    .johnny must be rolling over in his grave.


    Well Chuckie, you are quite a denial cunt yourself.
    All lone nutter scum must hang!!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Chuck Schuyler on Tue Jul 11 13:50:29 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:39:19 AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:45:17 AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.
    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence and Oswald's "Johnny Cochrane" would've been allowed to attack it as he saw fit to do so. The jury would weigh what was presented and decide.

    One of the country's best trial lawyers, Gerry Spence, was unable to convince a jury in a mock
    trial of Oswald's innocence. They voted to convict him. Does anyone believe Gil would have had
    better success.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Tue Jul 11 14:01:11 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:35:52 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 9:20:18 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.
    Gil continues to make asinine excuses for disregarding the evidence that proves conclusively
    Oswald assassinated JFK. He knows little about the rules of evidence and pretends to be an
    expert.
    As usual, you haven't refuted one single thing that I've listed.

    I have no obligation to refute your baseless assertions. You are the one claiming all of this
    damning evidence of Oswald's guilt wouldn't have been accepted into evidence. And on what
    do you base this assertion. Nothing but your own layman's opinion.

    No citations
    No documents
    No testimony
    No exhibits
    No witness videos
    You do no research on your own, preferring to take the lazy way out and fall back on the conclusions of the Warren Report.
    What you DO post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults.

    Says a person who has just presented us with his own comments, speculation, opinion and
    insults.

    A person can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from your posts.

    It isn't my mission to educate the abysmally ignorant.

    .johnny must be rolling over in his grave.

    Your OP claimed the forensic evidence would not have been allowed in court. In reality, what
    wouldn't have been allowed in court are your layman's opinions regarding the rules of evidence.
    Courts do not let just any Tom, Dick, or Gil testify as experts in any field including matters of
    law. Courts require that an expert witness present his/her credentials to be an expert witness
    before they are allowed to take the stand. Do you have any expertise in the field of the rules of
    evidence? If so, please present them. If not, than you need to cite a genuine legal expert who
    believes none of the evidence you spoke of would have been allowed in court. Can you cite such
    a legal expert?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Tue Jul 11 14:02:16 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:41:47 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:19:59 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence...

    When did you get your law degree?
    He got it at the Josef Stalin School of Law.

    This case would have never made it to trial by today's standards.

    NEVER.

    Gil thinks he's a modern day Clarence Darrow.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to John Corbett on Tue Jul 11 15:11:00 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 5:02:17 PM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:41:47 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:19:59 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence...

    When did you get your law degree?
    He got it at the Josef Stalin School of Law.

    This case would have never made it to trial by today's standards.

    NEVER.
    Gil thinks he's a modern day Clarence Darrow.

    He is an idiot with this nonsense. He wrote this...

    "Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case."

    This is wrong in just about every way it can be wrong.

    For starters, it is chain of custody, not chain of possession. "custody" in this case means law enforcement having control of the evidence. How the hell could they vouch for anything before they had possession and control of it? And it isn`t the first
    person to sets eyes on it, it is the officer who collects the evidence. That person will mark it in some way, or put the evidence in a evidence bag and mark that. This starts the chain of custody, not the first person who sees it or even touches it. It
    is the law enforcement agent who collects it as evidence, and that doesn`t have to be the first cop that touched it or saw it.

    In the JFK case it was Day who was the person who controlled and processed the evidence on the 6th floor. At 10th and Patton it was other cops.

    There are a lot of ways Gil`s ideas can be shown to be stupid, here`s a few. Benavides collected shells and 10th and Patton and gave them to cops at the scene. But the cops would never know how many people handled them before they got possession of them.
    If Benavides wandered off, never to be seen again then by Gil reasoning the evidence would have to be disregarded. The cops have to be able to vouch for chain of custody *after* they get control of the evidence, not before. He also seems to think that
    the first the first person to see evidence starts the chain of custody. That isn`t the case (imagine if 10 cops saw the evidence at the same time).

    One definition....

    The chain of custody is the most critical process of evidence documentation. It is a must to assure the court of law that the evidence is authentic, i.e., it is the same evidence seized at the crime scene. It was, at all times, in the custody of a
    person designated to handle it and for which it was never unaccounted. Although it is a lengthy process, it is required for evidence to be relevant in the court. The continuity of possession of evidence or custody of evidence and its movement and
    location from the point of discovery and recovery (at the scene of a crime or from a person), to its transport to the laboratory for examination and until the time it is allowed and admitted in the court, is known as the chain of custody or chain of
    evidence.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK551677/

    "at the scene of a crime or from a person".

    Also...

    "The chain of custody proves the integrity of a piece of evidence.[1] A paper trail is maintained so that the persons who had charge of the evidence at any given time can be known quickly and summoned to testify during the trial if required."

    It is the people who took control of the evidence and are in charge of it who are relevant. With the shells in the SN, Luke Mooney never took control of them so he is irrelevant to the chain of custody.

    Also...

    "The chain of custody needs to document every transmission from the moment the evidence is collected, from one person to another, to establish that nobody else could have accessed or possessed that evidence without authorization."

    Clearly they are talking about collection by law enforcement.

    Gil also seems to thing that the average person can make a positive identification of a hunk of lead they had previously. The police mark it, that is only way to be sure it is the same piece of lead.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Tue Jul 11 15:49:26 2023
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:02:16 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:41:47?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:19:59?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence...

    When did you get your law degree?
    He got it at the Josef Stalin School of Law.

    This case would have never made it to trial by today's standards.

    NEVER.

    Logical fallacy deleted.

    Corbutt failed again... as Gil already pointed out.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Bud on Tue Jul 11 15:38:25 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:11:02 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 5:02:17 PM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:41:47 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:19:59 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence...

    When did you get your law degree?
    He got it at the Josef Stalin School of Law.

    This case would have never made it to trial by today's standards.

    NEVER.
    Gil thinks he's a modern day Clarence Darrow.
    He is an idiot with this nonsense. He wrote this...
    "Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case."
    This is wrong in just about every way it can be wrong.

    For starters, it is chain of custody, not chain of possession. "custody" in this case means law enforcement having control of the evidence. How the hell could they vouch for anything before they had possession and control of it? And it isn`t the first
    person to sets eyes on it, it is the officer who collects the evidence. That person will mark it in some way, or put the evidence in a evidence bag and mark that. This starts the chain of custody, not the first person who sees it or even touches it. It
    is the law enforcement agent who collects it as evidence, and that doesn`t have to be the first cop that touched it or saw it.

    In the JFK case it was Day who was the person who controlled and processed the evidence on the 6th floor. At 10th and Patton it was other cops.

    There are a lot of ways Gil`s ideas can be shown to be stupid, here`s a few. Benavides collected shells and 10th and Patton and gave them to cops at the scene. But the cops would never know how many people handled them before they got possession of
    them. If Benavides wandered off, never to be seen again then by Gil reasoning the evidence would have to be disregarded. The cops have to be able to vouch for chain of custody *after* they get control of the evidence, not before. He also seems to think
    that the first the first person to see evidence starts the chain of custody. That isn`t the case (imagine if 10 cops saw the evidence at the same time).

    One definition....

    The chain of custody is the most critical process of evidence documentation. It is a must to assure the court of law that the evidence is authentic, i.e., it is the same evidence seized at the crime scene. It was, at all times, in the custody of a
    person designated to handle it and for which it was never unaccounted. Although it is a lengthy process, it is required for evidence to be relevant in the court. The continuity of possession of evidence or custody of evidence and its movement and
    location from the point of discovery and recovery (at the scene of a crime or from a person), to its transport to the laboratory for examination and until the time it is allowed and admitted in the court, is known as the chain of custody or chain of
    evidence.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK551677/

    "at the scene of a crime or from a person".

    Also...

    "The chain of custody proves the integrity of a piece of evidence.[1] A paper trail is maintained so that the persons who had charge of the evidence at any given time can be known quickly and summoned to testify during the trial if required."

    It is the people who took control of the evidence and are in charge of it who are relevant. With the shells in the SN, Luke Mooney never took control of them so he is irrelevant to the chain of custody.

    Also...

    "The chain of custody needs to document every transmission from the moment the evidence is collected, from one person to another, to establish that nobody else could have accessed or possessed that evidence without authorization."

    Clearly they are talking about collection by law enforcement.

    Gil also seems to thing that the average person can make a positive identification of a hunk of lead they had previously. The police mark it, that is only way to be sure it is the same piece of lead.

    Gil's feeble attempt to disqualify evidence indicates he has no interest in determining the truth.
    He seems to be trying to get Oswald off on a technicality. He has failed to do either.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to chuckschuyler123@gmail.com on Tue Jul 11 15:47:49 2023
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 10:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler <chuckschuyler123@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:41:47?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:19:59?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence...

    When did you get your law degree?

    He got it at the Josef Stalin School of Law.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    This case would have never made it to trial by today's standards.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    NEVER.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Tue Jul 11 15:45:25 2023
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:01:11 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:35:52?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 9:20:18?AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.
    Gil continues to make asinine excuses for disregarding the evidence that proves conclusively
    Oswald assassinated JFK. He knows little about the rules of evidence and pretends to be an
    expert.
    As usual, you haven't refuted one single thing that I've listed.

    I have no obligation to refute your baseless assertions.


    You're lying again, Corbutt.

    No wonder you're terrified of debate.

    You are the one claiming all of this
    damning evidence of Oswald's guilt wouldn't have been accepted into evidence. And on what
    do you base this assertion. Nothing but your own layman's opinion.


    No stupid, this is standard judicial procedure.

    The EXACT same procedures your lawyer would demand for you.


    No citations
    No documents
    No testimony
    No exhibits
    No witness videos
    You do no research on your own, preferring to take the lazy way out and fall back on the conclusions of the Warren Report.
    What you DO post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults.

    Says a person who has just...


    Accurately stated facts.


    A person can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from your posts.


    Logical fallacy deleted.


    .johnny must be rolling over in his grave.

    Your OP claimed the forensic evidence would not have been allowed in court.


    Yep... tis true.

    And you've cited *NOTHING* to refute this.


    I deleted the rest of your whining.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Tue Jul 11 15:56:09 2023
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 15:38:25 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:11:02?PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 5:02:17?PM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:41:47?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:19:59?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence...

    When did you get your law degree?
    He got it at the Josef Stalin School of Law.

    This case would have never made it to trial by today's standards.

    NEVER.
    Gil thinks he's a modern day Clarence Darrow.
    ...
    One definition....

    The chain of custody is the most critical process of evidence documentation. It is a must to assure the court of law that the evidence is authentic, i.e., it is the same evidence seized at the crime scene. It was, at all times, in the custody of a
    person designated to handle it and for which it was never unaccounted. Although it is a lengthy process, it is required for evidence to be relevant in the court. The continuity of possession of evidence or custody of evidence and its movement and
    location from the point of discovery and recovery (at the scene of a crime or from a person), to its transport to the laboratory for examination and until the time it is allowed and admitted in the court, is known as the chain of custody or chain of
    evidence.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK551677/
    ...
    Gil's feeble attempt ...

    Not "feeble" at all - Even Chickenshit cited in support of what Gil so
    clearly showed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to gjjmail1202@gmail.com on Tue Jul 11 15:58:45 2023
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 08:36:19 -0700 (PDT), Gil Jesus
    <gjjmail1202@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:39:19?AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:45:17?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence and Oswald's "Johnny Cochrane" would've been allowed to attack it as he saw fit to do so. The jury would weigh what was presented and decide.

    As usual, you haven't refuted one single thing that I've listed.
    No citations
    No documents
    No testimony
    No exhibits
    No witness videos
    You do no research on your own, preferring to take the lazy way out and fall back on the conclusions of the Warren Report.
    What you DO post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults.
    A person can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from your posts.
    .johnny must be rolling over in his grave.

    You must thank Chickenshit - he cited in support of your assertions...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Tue Jul 11 15:59:36 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:56:13 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 15:38:25 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett
    <geowri...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:11:02?PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 5:02:17?PM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:41:47?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:19:59?AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence...

    When did you get your law degree?
    He got it at the Josef Stalin School of Law.

    This case would have never made it to trial by today's standards.

    NEVER.
    Gil thinks he's a modern day Clarence Darrow.
    ...
    One definition....

    The chain of custody is the most critical process of evidence documentation. It is a must to assure the court of law that the evidence is authentic, i.e., it is the same evidence seized at the crime scene. It was, at all times, in the custody of a
    person designated to handle it and for which it was never unaccounted. Although it is a lengthy process, it is required for evidence to be relevant in the court. The continuity of possession of evidence or custody of evidence and its movement and
    location from the point of discovery and recovery (at the scene of a crime or from a person), to its transport to the laboratory for examination and until the time it is allowed and admitted in the court, is known as the chain of custody or chain of
    evidence.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK551677/
    ...
    Gil's feeble attempt ...

    Not "feeble" at all - Even Chickenshit cited in support of what Gil so clearly showed.

    How so?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to chuckschuyler123@gmail.com on Tue Jul 11 16:00:50 2023
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 10:13:44 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler <chuckschuyler123@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:36:21?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:39:19?AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:45:17?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence and Oswald's "Johnny Cochrane" would've been allowed to attack it as he saw fit to do so. The jury would weigh what was presented and decide.

    As usual, you haven't refuted one single thing that I've listed.

    ...to your satisfaction...

    Your own mother would agree with Gil.

    Unless, of course, your stupidity is genetic.

    You use this phrase INVARIABLY when nothing has been offered.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Tue Jul 11 16:01:53 2023
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 13:50:29 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:39:19?AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:45:17?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.
    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence and Oswald's "Johnny Cochrane" would've been allowed to attack it as he saw fit to do so. The jury would weigh what was presented and decide.

    One of the country's best trial lawyers, Gerry Spence, was unable to convince a jury...

    Sorry stupid, we don't try dead people.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to John Corbett on Wed Jul 12 02:16:58 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 4:50:30 PM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    One of the country's best trial lawyers, Gerry Spence, was unable to convince a jury in a mock
    trial of Oswald's innocence.

    You mean the Gary Spence who had a blowup of Oswald's picture in the defendant's chair ?
    THAT Gary Spence ?
    What a fucking joke his defense was.
    He had NO IDEA about the evidence in the case.

    Kinda like you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Wed Jul 12 02:30:01 2023
    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 5:16:59 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 4:50:30 PM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    One of the country's best trial lawyers, Gerry Spence, was unable to convince a jury in a mock
    trial of Oswald's innocence.
    You mean the Gary Spence who had a blowup of Oswald's picture in the defendant's chair ?
    THAT Gary Spence ?
    What a fucking joke his defense was.
    He had NO IDEA about the evidence in the case.

    Kinda like you.

    I'm sure you would have give Oswald a much better defense given your vast legal training.
    Just because Gerry Spence never lost a criminal case in his many years both as a prosecutor
    and defense attorney is no reason to believe he was competent.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gil Jesus@21:1/5 to Bud on Wed Jul 12 02:56:03 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:11:02 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    He is an idiot with this nonsense. He wrote this...
    "Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case."
    This is wrong in just about every way it can be wrong.

    For starters, it is chain of custody, not chain of possession.

    Does that mean all of the time I've been calling you an asshole, you're really an anus ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bud@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Wed Jul 12 03:01:11 2023
    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 5:56:04 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:11:02 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
    He is an idiot with this nonsense. He wrote this...
    "Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case."
    This is wrong in just about every way it can be wrong.

    For starters, it is chain of custody, not chain of possession.
    Does that mean all of the time I've been calling you an asshole, you're really an anus ?

    It means you pontificate about things you know nothing about.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to gjjmail1202@gmail.com on Wed Jul 12 08:09:30 2023
    On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 02:16:58 -0700 (PDT), Gil Jesus
    <gjjmail1202@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 4:50:30?PM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    One of the country's best trial lawyers, Gerry Spence, was unable to convince a jury in a mock
    trial of Oswald's innocence.

    You mean the Gary Spence who had a blowup of Oswald's picture in the defendant's chair ?
    THAT Gary Spence ?
    What a fucking joke his defense was.
    He had NO IDEA about the evidence in the case.

    Kinda like you.

    When all believers can offer is Gerry Spence, it simply shows you how
    terrified they are of the ACTUAL evidence.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Wed Jul 12 08:16:35 2023
    On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 02:30:01 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 5:16:59?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 4:50:30?PM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
    One of the country's best trial lawyers, Gerry Spence, was unable to convince a jury in a mock
    trial of Oswald's innocence.
    You mean the Gary Spence who had a blowup of Oswald's picture in the defendant's chair ?
    THAT Gary Spence ?
    What a fucking joke his defense was.
    He had NO IDEA about the evidence in the case.

    Kinda like you.

    I'm sure you would have give Oswald a much better defense given your vast legal training.


    Tell us about chain of custody...

    Cite for your answer...

    But you won't. You're a coward.


    Just because Gerry Spence never lost a criminal case in his many years both as a prosecutor
    and defense attorney is no reason to believe he was competent.


    Of course, the truth is quite a bit different from what Corbutt is
    claiming.

    And unlike Corbutt - I can cite:

    https://www.popehat.com/2010/07/29/gerry-spence-has-never-lost-a-jury-trial-it-depends-on-what-the-meaning-of-lose-is/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Gil Jesus on Wed Jul 12 19:00:49 2023
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the court
    to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    You are wrong. You don’t know the law. Allow me to educate you.
    See this link: https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1308&context=faculty_publications

    Please see page number two, in the section entitled “WITNESS UNCERTAINTY”.

    Please read it carefully, particularly these words: “… lack of certitude does not preclude admissibility.”

    The failure of a witness to positively identify an item does not render that item inadmissible - the item is admissible and the jury gets to decide how much weight to put on the item. For further on this issue, see page number, six, in the section
    entitled “FEDERAL RULES”.

    Please read the entire document. Familiarize yourself with it. There are plenty of trials where your claims are contrary to the rulings cited in the above link.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sky Throne 19efppp@21:1/5 to Hank Sienzant on Wed Jul 12 19:24:23 2023
    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 10:00:51 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.
    You are wrong. You don’t know the law. Allow me to educate you.
    See this link: https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1308&context=faculty_publications

    Please see page number two, in the section entitled “WITNESS UNCERTAINTY”.

    Please read it carefully, particularly these words: “… lack of certitude does not preclude admissibility.”

    The failure of a witness to positively identify an item does not render that item inadmissible - the item is admissible and the jury gets to decide how much weight to put on the item. For further on this issue, see page number, six, in the section
    entitled “FEDERAL RULES”.

    Please read the entire document. Familiarize yourself with it. There are plenty of trials where your claims are contrary to the rulings cited in the above link.

    Wonderfully hilarious how the Nutter Retards are now praising uncertain witnesses!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 13 07:50:47 2023
    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 10:24:24 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 10:00:51 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.
    You are wrong. You don’t know the law. Allow me to educate you.
    See this link: https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1308&context=faculty_publications

    Please see page number two, in the section entitled “WITNESS UNCERTAINTY”.

    Please read it carefully, particularly these words: “… lack of certitude does not preclude admissibility.”

    The failure of a witness to positively identify an item does not render that item inadmissible - the item is admissible and the jury gets to decide how much weight to put on the item. For further on this issue, see page number, six, in the section
    entitled “FEDERAL RULES”.

    Please read the entire document. Familiarize yourself with it. There are plenty of trials where your claims are contrary to the rulings cited in the above link.
    Wonderfully hilarious how the Nutter Retards are now praising uncertain witnesses!

    LNs have never relied on witnesses to establish facts. Witnesses are notoriously unreliable.
    That doesn't mean they are always right nor always wrong. It means when a witness tells us
    something, we need to corroborate their account through other evidence. In the case of the
    Tippit murder, the eyewitness testimony and the forensic evidence dovetail neatly. The only
    conclusion that can be drawn from that combination of evidence is that Oswald murdered
    Tippit. If there was another plausible explanation for that evidence, someone would have
    come up with one by now.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to hsienzant@aol.com on Thu Jul 13 08:43:19 2023
    On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 19:00:49 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    You are wrong.

    And you're a liar. Anyone believing a liar who claims someone is
    "wrong" would be a moron.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Thu Jul 13 08:46:09 2023
    On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 07:50:47 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    LNs have never relied on witnesses to establish facts. Witnesses are notoriously unreliable.


    They *CAN'T* rely on witnesses - there's not a *SINGLE* witness they
    believe in this case.


    That doesn't mean they are always right nor always wrong. It means when a witness tells us
    something, we need to corroborate their account through other evidence.


    But that doesn't matter either. You **PROVABLY* discount eyewitnesses
    who have been corroborated.


    In the case of the
    Tippit murder, the eyewitness testimony and the forensic evidence dovetail neatly.


    What "forensic evidence?" Cite it. Or, like the liar and coward you
    are, run away again...


    The only
    conclusion that can be drawn from that combination of evidence is that Oswald murdered
    Tippit. If there was another plausible explanation for that evidence, someone would have
    come up with one by now.

    You're lying again, moron!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 13 12:04:29 2023
    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 10:24:24 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 10:00:51 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.
    You are wrong. You don’t know the law. Allow me to educate you.
    See this link: https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1308&context=faculty_publications

    Please see page number two, in the section entitled “WITNESS UNCERTAINTY”.

    Please read it carefully, particularly these words: “… lack of certitude does not preclude admissibility.”

    The failure of a witness to positively identify an item does not render that item inadmissible - the item is admissible and the jury gets to decide how much weight to put on the item. For further on this issue, see page number, six, in the section
    entitled “FEDERAL RULES”.

    Please read the entire document. Familiarize yourself with it. There are plenty of trials where your claims are contrary to the rulings cited in the above link.
    Wonderfully hilarious how the Nutter Retards are now praising uncertain witnesses!

    Straw man argument. That’s not what I said. I attempted to educate Gil Jesus on the law concerning admissibility of evidence. He is apparently getting his “facts” directly from conspiracy books, rather than from law books. Conspiracy books
    typically overstate the requirements for admissibility and Gil echoed those overstatements here. As my link points out, even when there is questions about concerning Chain of Custody, the item(s) are admissible, and the jury gets to decide how much
    weight to give to the items.

    And of course, you ignored the point of my post entirely.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Sienzant@21:1/5 to Ben Holmes on Thu Jul 13 12:08:30 2023
    On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 11:43:22 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 19:00:49 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17?AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    You are wrong.
    And you're a liar. Anyone believing a liar who claims someone is
    "wrong" would be a moron.

    Funny. Ben deletes the citation and the points made, and then calls anyone who believes the link a moron for believing me, and the link I posted. And of course, simply calls me liar once more, hoping repetition will close the huge gap between the law and
    conspiracy theorists claims about admissibility of evidence.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sky Throne 19efppp@21:1/5 to Hank Sienzant on Thu Jul 13 12:15:03 2023
    On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 3:04:31 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 10:24:24 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 10:00:51 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.
    You are wrong. You don’t know the law. Allow me to educate you.
    See this link: https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1308&context=faculty_publications

    Please see page number two, in the section entitled “WITNESS UNCERTAINTY”.

    Please read it carefully, particularly these words: “… lack of certitude does not preclude admissibility.”

    The failure of a witness to positively identify an item does not render that item inadmissible - the item is admissible and the jury gets to decide how much weight to put on the item. For further on this issue, see page number, six, in the section
    entitled “FEDERAL RULES”.

    Please read the entire document. Familiarize yourself with it. There are plenty of trials where your claims are contrary to the rulings cited in the above link.
    Wonderfully hilarious how the Nutter Retards are now praising uncertain witnesses!
    Straw man argument. That’s not what I said. I attempted to educate Gil Jesus on the law concerning admissibility of evidence. He is apparently getting his “facts” directly from conspiracy books, rather than from law books. Conspiracy books
    typically overstate the requirements for admissibility and Gil echoed those overstatements here. As my link points out, even when there is questions about concerning Chain of Custody, the item(s) are admissible, and the jury gets to decide how much
    weight to give to the items.

    And of course, you ignored the point of my post entirely.

    Well, of course! If a witness is sure that a bag is tow feet, then he must be mistaken. But if he's not sure if he found that shell, then he must have found it. Hank credits witnesses who support his wacky theory, and nothing else matters. And he still
    won't tell us whether or not he believe Jack Tatum.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Corbett@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 13 12:43:28 2023
    On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 3:15:04 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 3:04:31 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 10:24:24 PM UTC-4, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 10:00:51 PM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:45:17 AM UTC-4, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask
    the court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.
    You are wrong. You don’t know the law. Allow me to educate you.
    See this link: https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1308&context=faculty_publications

    Please see page number two, in the section entitled “WITNESS UNCERTAINTY”.

    Please read it carefully, particularly these words: “… lack of certitude does not preclude admissibility.”

    The failure of a witness to positively identify an item does not render that item inadmissible - the item is admissible and the jury gets to decide how much weight to put on the item. For further on this issue, see page number, six, in the
    section entitled “FEDERAL RULES”.

    Please read the entire document. Familiarize yourself with it. There are plenty of trials where your claims are contrary to the rulings cited in the above link.
    Wonderfully hilarious how the Nutter Retards are now praising uncertain witnesses!
    Straw man argument. That’s not what I said. I attempted to educate Gil Jesus on the law concerning admissibility of evidence. He is apparently getting his “facts” directly from conspiracy books, rather than from law books. Conspiracy books
    typically overstate the requirements for admissibility and Gil echoed those overstatements here. As my link points out, even when there is questions about concerning Chain of Custody, the item(s) are admissible, and the jury gets to decide how much
    weight to give to the items.

    And of course, you ignored the point of my post entirely.
    Well, of course! If a witness is sure that a bag is tow feet, then he must be mistaken. But if he's not sure if he found that shell, then he must have found it. Hank credits witnesses who support his wacky theory, and nothing else matters. And he still
    won't tell us whether or not he believe Jack Tatum.

    In both cases, physical evidence helps us determine the credibility of a witness. The bag was
    found and measures at 38". The bag had Oswald's prints on it and no other similar bag was found of any length. The common sense conclusion is the witnesses estimated the bag to be
    shorter than it actually was. In the case of the shells, they were taken into custody by the cops
    on the scene and placed into evidence. In absence of evidence of tampering, the common
    sense conclusion is that the shells in evidence are the shells that were found by the witnesses.
    Common sense is not a useful skill to those who want to imagine much more sinister and
    convoluted theories about what happened on 11/22/1963.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to hsienzant@aol.com on Thu Jul 13 12:41:46 2023
    On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 12:04:29 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:


    Straw man argument. Thats not what I said. I attempted to educate
    Gil Jesus ...

    A liar can only find it easy to lie again...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to hsienzant@aol.com on Thu Jul 13 12:42:34 2023
    On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 12:08:30 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
    <hsienzant@aol.com> wrote:


    You are wrong.

    And you're a liar. Anyone believing a liar who claims someone is
    "wrong" would be a moron.

    Funny.

    What's funny about pointing out a liar?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to geowright1963@gmail.com on Thu Jul 13 13:15:33 2023
    On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 12:43:28 -0700 (PDT), John Corbett <geowright1963@gmail.com> wrote:

    In both cases, physical evidence helps us determine the credibility of a witness.


    No, it provably does *NOT*.

    The "physical evidence" at the autopsy clearly corroborated the dozens
    of medically trained eyewitneses who put the large head wound on the
    BACK of JFK's head.

    You deny this. So clearly, you're a proven liar.


    The bag was found...


    Begging the question.


    In the case of the shells, they were taken into custody by the cops
    on the scene and placed into evidence.


    Again, begging the question... you really like logical fallacies,
    don't you?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ben Holmes@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 19 07:03:38 2023
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 15:59:59 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirslick@fast.net>
    wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:58:49?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 08:36:19 -0700 (PDT), Gil Jesus
    <gjjma...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 10:39:19?AM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 6:45:17?AM UTC-5, Gil Jesus wrote:
    Another one for the LN trolls to cry about.

    In a normal criminal trial, the prosecution would be required to establish an item as evidence BEFORE a judge would allow it to be submitted as an exhibit.

    Before a chain of possession could be established, the item would have to be identified by the first witness who came in contact with it in order to establish its relevant to the case. After such identification, the prosecution would then ask the
    court to accept the evidence as an exhibit.

    But in this case, although the Warren Commission's agenda was to present the evidence in such a way that Oswald "would have convicted at trial", it did not follow normal judicial protocol.
    Instead, it accepted items as exhibits without so much as an identification from the person who found them. This could not have been an oversight, because they did this time and time again.

    Among those items which were accepted WITHOUT identification from the people who found them were:

    Commission Exhibit 139 - the C2766 rifle was never identified by the person who found it ( Dallas Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone ) as the rifle he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 162 - the "tannish grey" jacket found under a car in a parking lot a block from the Tippit murder scene was never identified by the person who reported it found ( Off. J.T. Griffin ) as the jacket he reported.

    Commission Exhibit 399 - was never identified by the person who found it ( Darrell Tomlinson ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibits 543, 544 and 545 - the three 6.5 rifle shells were never identified by the person who found them ( Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney ) as the shells he found on the sixth floor.

    Commission Exhibit 573 - the "Walker Bullet" was never identified by the person who found it ( B.G. Norvell ) as the bullet he found.

    Commission Exhibit 594 - the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene were never identified by the witnesses who found them ( Domingo Benavides and Barbara and Virginia Davis ) as the shells they found.

    All of these items were accepted by the Warren Commission as Exhibits without any established chain of possession or positive identifcation from the people who found them.

    Had this case gone to criminal trial, without the positive identifcation from the people who found them, none of these items would have been admitted as evidence.

    All of the items would've been allowed into evidence and Oswald's "Johnny Cochrane" would've been allowed to attack it as he saw fit to do so. The jury would weigh what was presented and decide.

    As usual, you haven't refuted one single thing that I've listed.
    No citations
    No documents
    No testimony
    No exhibits
    No witness videos
    You do no research on your own, preferring to take the lazy way out and fall back on the conclusions of the Warren Report.
    What you DO post are comments, speculation, opinion and insults.
    A person can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from your posts.
    .johnny must be rolling over in his grave.
    You must thank Chickenshit - he cited in support of your assertions...

    By ...

    Citing evidence supporting what he said.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)