Of the three systems I use, the newest and fastest I use the least. I
don't turn it off, but when I'm done I put it to sleep. It always
amazes me on patch Tuesdays. I hit the keyboard to wake it up and
before anything, even the ability to log in, the screen immediately pops
up that windows is going to need to be restarted outside the usual
hours. OK, how in the hell did the damn thing download the updates and
begin installing them to the point of a restart when it was asleep?
I've not seen this on any other machine.

Nothing is broken, I just am interested in how in the hell it can do
this? Does this happen to any of you that have newer systems, too?
Maybe it's just magic?


--
Stand With Israel!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 8/13/2024 8:04 PM, sticks wrote:

Of the three systems I use, the newest and fastest I use the least.  I don't turn it off, but when I'm done I put it to sleep.  It always amazes me on patch Tuesdays.  I hit the keyboard to wake it up and before anything, even the ability to log in,

the screen immediately pops up that windows is going to need to be restarted outside the usual hours.  OK, how in the hell did the damn thing download the updates and begin installing them to the point of a restart when it was asleep? I've not seen this
on any other machine.

Nothing is broken, I just am interested in how in the hell it can do this?  Does this happen to any of you that have newer systems, too? Maybe it's just magic?

You have to watch your network light. Mine says it checked
seven hours ago, which is likely when it ingested materials.
I was out of the house, on a shopping trip.

I know it is waiting for me to try to shutdown, then it will
spring the details on me. I already have a new BIOS in the machine,
so the latest CVE is patched.

One sign it is installing stuff, is the installation steps
can affect running services and that can have side effects.
For example, one day, I had "dancing icons" in the Task Bar,
which is a sign I'd been "attacked by well meaning elves".
And that calls for a shutdown/reboot. I reported that on the
Feedback Hub, due to the novel presentation.

What the machine does when you reboot as requested, is on
the shutdown phase, it executes outstanding "PendMoves".
It puts some files into necessary places. "move here there"

When the machine restarts, in exceptional cases (happened more in
the past), it would create a "temporary profile" and do stuff.
Then it would do one more reboot, and remove the temporary profile
and use your real profile again. It would reboot itself, so
this isn't a discretionary second reboot.

This is why, even when you've done your reboot, it would not hurt
to do another reboot ("digestive reboot"), just to make sure it is happy
for your infinite-sleep strategy. Even with infinite-sleep, the machine
must do a real-reboot once every three months. Because Windows Update
ruins your sleep, and interrupts it around a month or a bit more later,
I don't think you can make it to three months, without Windows Update
causing a "fresh boot" to have happened. If the machine was disconnected
from the Internet for three months, you might find on one of your
shutdowns, it didn't sleep as requested.

If your machine had working ECC, it might not corrupt quite as easily
using infinite-sleep. ECC is not a very common feature, for home users
(said Intel). If I go on an ECC rant, the price is $1 :-)

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2024-08-14 02:04, sticks wrote:

Of the three systems I use, the newest and fastest I use the least.  I
don't turn it off, but when I'm done I put it to sleep.  It always
amazes me on patch Tuesdays.  I hit the keyboard to wake it up and
before anything, even the ability to log in, the screen immediately pops
up that windows is going to need to be restarted outside the usual
hours.  OK, how in the hell did the damn thing download the updates and begin installing them to the point of a restart when it was asleep? I've
not seen this on any other machine.

It was not actually sleep for some of the time. Some timer told it to
wake up and check for updates, then go to sleep again.

Nothing is broken, I just am interested in how in the hell it can do
this?  Does this happen to any of you that have newer systems, too?
Maybe it's just magic?

--
Cheers, Carlos.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

[Late response due to extended absence.]

On August 14, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

Of the three systems I use, the newest and fastest I use the least. I
don't turn it off, but when I'm done I put it to sleep. It always
amazes me on patch Tuesdays. I hit the keyboard to wake it up and
before anything, even the ability to log in, the screen immediately pops
up that windows is going to need to be restarted outside the usual
hours. OK, how in the hell did the damn thing download the updates and
begin installing them to the point of a restart when it was asleep?

Have you seen Carlos' response about wake timers? (AFAIK you didn't acknowledge that posting (or any others).)

I.e. the system can wake up, do something and go back to sleep without
your involvement or knowing.

See the 'Allow wake timers' options in the 'Sleep' settings of the
(Control Panel) 'Power Options' applet.

Also if you have a somewhat modern computer, it will probably use
'Modern Standby' instead of real sleep:

'Modern Standby vs S3' <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/modern-standby-vs-s3>

In any case, you may want to have a look at the 'Kernel-Power' entries
in the Event Viewer, to see if the system is really sleeping, when you
think it is:

Event Viewer -> (Local) -> Windows Logs -> 'System' event log

Hope this helps.

I've not seen this on any other machine.

Nothing is broken, I just am interested in how in the hell it can do
this? Does this happen to any of you that have newer systems, too?
Maybe it's just magic?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 9/13/2024 9:28 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[Late response due to extended absence.]

On August 14, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

Of the three systems I use, the newest and fastest I use the least. I
don't turn it off, but when I'm done I put it to sleep. It always
amazes me on patch Tuesdays. I hit the keyboard to wake it up and
before anything, even the ability to log in, the screen immediately pops
up that windows is going to need to be restarted outside the usual
hours. OK, how in the hell did the damn thing download the updates and
begin installing them to the point of a restart when it was asleep?

Have you seen Carlos' response about wake timers? (AFAIK you didn't acknowledge that posting (or any others).)

I.e. the system can wake up, do something and go back to sleep without your involvement or knowing.

See the 'Allow wake timers' options in the 'Sleep' settings of the (Control Panel) 'Power Options' applet.

Also if you have a somewhat modern computer, it will probably use
'Modern Standby' instead of real sleep:

'Modern Standby vs S3' <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/modern-standby-vs-s3>

In any case, you may want to have a look at the 'Kernel-Power' entries
in the Event Viewer, to see if the system is really sleeping, when you
think it is:

Event Viewer -> (Local) -> Windows Logs -> 'System' event log

Hope this helps.

I've not seen this on any other machine.

Nothing is broken, I just am interested in how in the hell it can do
this? Does this happen to any of you that have newer systems, too?
Maybe it's just magic?

I will have to check that machine tonight, but I'm fairly certain wake
timers are enabled as I use them for my weekly backups. It never
occurred to me windows would do updates using this method. Now that I'm thinking about it, I kind of like that it is already done, with the
exception of having to restart immediately. On that box it takes a
short time to do that. If this computer did the updates overnight it
would be quite a bit more of a nuisance. Though I now think I like the
idea and may want to see if I can get this slower one to do it too.
Restarting may take 4-5 minutes where waiting for the complete update to
finish and slowing this machine down to almost being unusable can take
far longer.

Thanks.


--
Stand With Israel!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

On 9/13/2024 9:28 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[...]

I will have to check that machine tonight, but I'm fairly certain wake
timers are enabled as I use them for my weekly backups. It never
occurred to me windows would do updates using this method. Now that I'm thinking about it, I kind of like that it is already done, with the
exception of having to restart immediately. On that box it takes a
short time to do that. If this computer did the updates overnight it
would be quite a bit more of a nuisance. Though I now think I like the
idea and may want to see if I can get this slower one to do it too. Restarting may take 4-5 minutes where waiting for the complete update to finish and slowing this machine down to almost being unusable can take
far longer.

Yes, that's the way I do it on our machines: Let Windows Update do the downloading and (partly) installing during the night (outside the
'Active hours') and let the system restart itself (also outside active
hours). So everything is automatic and I don't have to wait in the
morning (except for the (re-)login).

If for some reason I do want to do things by hand, I just use 'Pause updates' and 'Resume updates' when it suits me.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Yesterday, I wrote:

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

On 9/13/2024 9:28 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[...]

I will have to check that machine tonight, but I'm fairly certain wake timers are enabled as I use them for my weekly backups. It never
occurred to me windows would do updates using this method. Now that I'm thinking about it, I kind of like that it is already done, with the exception of having to restart immediately. On that box it takes a
short time to do that. If this computer did the updates overnight it
would be quite a bit more of a nuisance. Though I now think I like the idea and may want to see if I can get this slower one to do it too. Restarting may take 4-5 minutes where waiting for the complete update to finish and slowing this machine down to almost being unusable can take
far longer.

Yes, that's the way I do it on our machines: Let Windows Update do the downloading and (partly) installing during the night (outside the
'Active hours') and let the system restart itself (also outside active hours). So everything is automatic and I don't have to wait in the
morning (except for the (re-)login).

Apparently *I* was outside my active hours :-) when I wrote that,
because the downloading and (partly) installing will probably be done
*inside* the 'Active hours', only the restart (and the update part after
the restart) will be done outside the 'Active hours'.

If for some reason I do want to do things by hand, I just use 'Pause updates' and 'Resume updates' when it suits me.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)