On 2024-06-29 01:29:59 +0000, <bp@www.zefox.net> said:
For some time the iPhone6 I carry for emergencies has asked
for my apple ID. I always touch "not now" and go about my
business. So far, there hasn't been any repercussion and
the phone works when I need it.
Why is the phone asking, and will something bad happen, like the
phone not working, if I keep hitting "not now"?
Thanks for reading,
bob prohaska
Shouldn't be any problem, but there are many reasons why it might be
asking for it, so you may want to look into why it keeps asking. Apple
ID is required for things like iCloud features, updating of apps of
iOS, recent changes to your Touch ID or Face ID, etc., etc.
Do the non-Apple common consumer operating systems (android, linux, win10/win11) work WITHOUT logging into the mothership mainframe servers?
Do the non-Apple common consumer operating systems (android, linux, win10/win11) work WITHOUT logging into the mothership mainframe servers?Andrew,
My only question to the non-Apple newsgroups is whether or not it is a true statement of mine that no other common consumer operating system (not even Windows 11) requires a mothership tracking account for basic functionality (certainly I am well aware Android does not require it).
Is my statement correct for all the non-Apple common consumer systems?
Q: Does any non-Apple common OS require a mothership account for the
basic functionality of the operating system that people love about it?
That's all I ask to flesh out here, as I care only about the truth.
I will only respond to those who stick to the topic of whether the
non-Apple operating systems ALSO are set up on the dumb-terminal model
(with the inherent loss of privacy, particularly in meta-data collection).
Below is simply a note I wrote today, in response to a question on the
Apple iOS newsgroup about what happens if you DENY Apple's daily requests
to log into their mainframe servers in order to obtain basic iOS functionality (which I did on two iPads for two years and Apple bricked
them at the conclusion of those two years of refusing to log into Apple).
===< Please cut below for the content of the message I wrote for iOS >===
From: Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.mobile.ipad
Subject: Re: Ignoring requests for Apple ID
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2024 04:44:43 -0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <v5o3fr$148g$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
X-Newsreader: PiaoHong.Usenet.Client.Free:1.65
Your Name wrote on Sat, 29 Jun 2024 16:11:51 +1200 :
> On 2024-06-29 01:29:59 +0000, <bp@www.zefox.net> said:
>>
>> For some time the iPhone6 I carry for emergencies has asked
>> for my apple ID. I always touch "not now" and go about my
>> business. So far, there hasn't been any repercussion and
>> the phone works when I need it.
>>
>> Why is the phone asking, and will something bad happen, like the
>> phone not working, if I keep hitting "not now"?
>>
>> Thanks for reading,
>>
>> bob prohaska
>
> Shouldn't be any problem, but there are many reasons why it might be
> asking for it, so you may want to look into why it keeps asking. Apple
> ID is required for things like iCloud features, updating of apps of
> iOS, recent changes to your Touch ID or Face ID, etc., etc.
When you buy an Apple product - you buy into the dumb-terminal ecosystem.
Worse, you buy into Apple storing huge amounts of your metadata on the net!
*I asked Apple for all my data. Here's what was sent back*
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-request/>
These files "contain metadata, like when and who I messaged or called on FaceTime" which is a privacy flaw inherent in the dumb-terminal model.
For example, Apple unilaterally inserts, into every IPA you install, a *unique* code specific only to you so that Apple can track app activity.
For example, Apple keeps a copy of every app and song you have ever downloaded and every tune you've ever added to your iTunes music library.
Most users are completely unaware there is no common consumer operating system other than Apple's which require you to constantly log into their mothership servers for the basic functionality you know & love about iOS.
And Apple never advertises the huge amount of data it stores about you. ���*Apple took 8 days to give me the data it had collected on me. It was
eye opening* ���<https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2018/05/04/asked-apple-everything-had-me-heres-what-got/558362002/>
Apple uses some of this immense data to"sell targeted ads based on our interests in the News and App Store apps" (see that in the references cited since most of the Apple religious zealots hate all truths about Apple).
1. The walled garden does not work if you don't log into Apple servers.
2. There are *many* Apple servers you need to log into for it to work.
3. There's the iCloud & the Apple AppStore, Messages, Facetime, etc.
On two separate iPads, I have refused to log into those accounts, and what happens, naturally, is you are eventually unable to use the walled garden.
<https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg> Apple _forces_ a log in!
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg> Apple fails App Store test
<https://i.postimg.cc/TwN6P0QR/appleid08.jpg> Only Apple requires a login
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg> Apple tracks your activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg> Apps become non functional
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg> Apple _forces_ extra logins!
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y9kkj19v/appleid12.jpg> Apple tracking server login
But you can use "some" of the features of the walled garden; just not all.
<https://i.postimg.cc/9XtgRz0y/mothership01.jpg> Apple forces verification
<https://i.postimg.cc/q73jkvWh/mothership02.jpg> into mothership trackers
<https://i.postimg.cc/7hmNBGJc/mothership03.jpg> Safari & Chrome work fine
<https://i.postimg.cc/GhmK4QZ1/mothership04.jpg> So does Youtube work fine
<https://i.postimg.cc/vBv7BghB/mothership05.jpg> No problem with web pages
<https://i.postimg.cc/xjtyVmqp/mothership06.jpg> The walled garden fails
<https://i.postimg.cc/ht79m3sN/mothership07.jpg> iMessage garden fails
<https://i.postimg.cc/5tBL7YZ3/mothership08.jpg> FaceTime garden fails
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y09FCXjn/mothership09.jpg> App Store finds 1Blocker
<https://i.postimg.cc/tC869Nbk/mothership10.jpg> App Store installs apps
<https://i.postimg.cc/FKVkgtLC/mothership11.jpg> But it won't do iCloud
Which means, Apple designed iOS as a "dumb terminal" which gets much of its beloved functionality only by logging into Apple's mainframe servers for
most of the beloved walled-garden functionality - without which - the iOS device reverts to a dumb terminal that can't do what you love about iOS.
Paradoxically, while all the beloved walled-garden functionality eventually disappears after about two years (tested on two different iPads) of
refusing to log into the walled-garden Apple servers, the one functionality that remained was the capability of updating your operating system version.
<https://i.postimg.cc/hvhgB91S/update01.jpg> iPadOS 16.3.1 is available
<https://i.postimg.cc/Qtfsw654/update02.jpg> 16.3.1 Update Requested
<https://i.postimg.cc/vmLGL8md/update03.jpg> About 10 minutes remaining
<https://i.postimg.cc/d11gkJk6/update04.jpg> Preparing Update
<https://i.postimg.cc/rw1B7n21/update05.jpg> Downloaded
<https://i.postimg.cc/yN7MKm7w/update06.jpg> Finish Setting Up iPad
<https://i.postimg.cc/13DSsRwN/update07.jpg> More for your iPad
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xv80B22j/update08.jpg> Update Apple ID Settings
<https://i.postimg.cc/TYLGNJP0/update09.jpg> iPadOS Version 16.3.1
<https://i.postimg.cc/L509Yy8Y/update10.jpg> Sign in to iCloud
<https://i.postimg.cc/zvfDfm8Y/update11.jpg> Finished Setting up iPad
<https://i.postimg.cc/Z5Nbnxtn/update12.jpg> Verifying update...
In summary, of all common consumer operating systems (including Windows
11), only the Apple operating systems are designed essentially as dumb terminals which don't do what you love about them without logging into the mainframe servers, of which you are logged into them 24/7/365 while
enjoying Apple products.
Clearly Apple never advertises that most of the genius of the walled garden is simply that the user is making use of these Internet services, all of which are tracked in detail and every one of which contains privacy
metadata which can be detrimental to your privacy & which is saved by
Apple.
When you buy an Apple product - you buy into the dumb-terminal ecosystem.
Here's a snippet of the information Apple maintains due to the inherently flawed nature (from a privacy standpoint) of the dumb-terminal iOS model.
AccountDetails.xlsx contains basic information about the account holder, including name, address, phone number, and Apple ID information. It also includes when an account was created and IP address of the Apple server
used to open the account.
iCloudLogs.xlsx keeps a note on every time one of your devices downloads
data from iCloud, including your photo library, contacts, and Safari
browsing history -- but doesn't contain the actual data.
MailLogs.xlsx also keeps a record of each time something from your Apple device interacts with your iCloud email account, but no email content is stored here.
Two more files relate to Apple's flagship end-to-end encrypted messaging apps, FaceTime and iMessage. Because even Apple can't access the content of encrypted video calls and text messages, Apple can't turn over the data,
but it can provide information on all the calls and messages that are
routed through its servers.
In both the FaceTime and IDS (iMessage) logs, notes read that the logs only indicate if there was an attempt to place a FaceTime call or to send an iMessage, because both requests are sent through Apple's servers. But
neither log whether the call was made or message was sent, let alone if it was successful.
In a separate folder, another batch of Excel documents contained
information mostly pertaining to with my interactions with Apple, like downloads and support requests.
AOS Orders contains an entire history of devices and accessories I've
bought from Apple dating back to my first purchase. It also includes the
five separate occasions I bought new earphones roughly once per year
because my cat had chewed through them.
CRM Installed Product is a list of every Apple device ever bought,
including highly detailed information -- like serial numbers, a note on if
a device is unlocked, unique networking MAC addresses for Bluetooth,
Ethernet and Wi-Fi connections, and any other identifying information on a device.
Read also: What would Steve Jobs think of today's Apple?
CRM AppleCare Case Contact contains basic contact information on the
account holder, such as name, address, and phone number -- and if the user opts into marketing emails and phone calls.
CRM AppleCare Case Header included every interaction I've had with customer support. Every time you call, a company representatives make notes about
the customer's problem, and also describes the next steps or the outcome of the call.
CRM Warranty includes all the information on a device owner's warranty,
what AppleCare coverage they have -- if any, and when warranties expire.
DS Signons is a long list of every time you logged in to iTunes and from which specific device, and contains peripheral information like if the
login failed.
Game Center predictably contains information on all the gaming sessions a user has played or interacted with -- which in my case, as you'd expect, is limited to almost zero.
iForgot keeps a log of every time you visited your Apple ID page on the
web, or reset your password.
iTunes Match Uploads retains a record of every song you've ever uploaded to iTunes Match service, which matches your music with higher quality and downloads that copy instead. The list also includes your user agent information, which can identify your device.
iTunes Match Downloads similarly keeps a list of all matched music that's later downloaded from iTunes Match.
iTunes Downloads contains a user's entire download history since the account's creation -- from apps, songs, albums, videos, and movies -- from the iTunes Store. It also includes information on which device the item was downloaded and its IP address.
Repair Transaction Details recounts every time you put in a repair request with Apple, and includes information on what the issue is, any notes made
by Apple staff, and any information that identifies the device, such as a phone's IMEI number.
Marketing Contact includes the information that Apple uses to contact you
for marketing reasons, and the reason why -- such as if the user has a developer account.
In summary, the advantage of Apple's dumb-terminal design of iOS is most of the magic you love about the walled garden is handled by Internet servers (which is why all that is reproduced in Android, only with the addition of all platform compatibility - not just Apple platforms - if you're willing
to log into an Internet server to perform those walled-garden tasks).
The disadvantage of every app you use being tracked by Apple and every
action being tracked by your Internet login into the mainframe servers,
is Apple tracks a hellova lot of meta data about you that impacts privacy.
===< Please cut above for the content of the message I wrote for iOS >===
Do the non-Apple common consumer operating systems (android, linux, win10/win11) work WITHOUT logging into the mothership mainframe servers?
My only question to the non-Apple newsgroups is whether or not it is a true statement of mine that no other common consumer operating system (not even Windows 11) requires a mothership tracking account for basic functionality (certainly I am well aware Android does not require it).
Is my statement correct for all the non-Apple common consumer systems?
Q: Does any non-Apple common OS require a mothership account for the
basic functionality of the operating system that people love about it?
Do the non-Apple common consumer operating systems (android, linux, win10/win11) work WITHOUT logging into the mothership mainframe servers?
My only question to the non-Apple newsgroups is whether or not it is a true statement of mine that no other common consumer operating system (not even Windows 11) requires a mothership tracking account for basic functionality (certainly I am well aware Android does not require it).
As far as I have seen, Linux does not require any hooks into any Windows, Google, Apple, Mac
connections.
As you or something in your article said, adding account logins just enhances the experience.
I myself use the google calendar events that show on my Android phone and now show on my Linux calendar.
You can ask ecosystem questions, of Copilot.
*******
Question for CoPilot:
Of all the Apple hardware products, which products require a
cloud login to function day-to-day ?
Answer:
Apple's hardware products are designed to work seamlessly with their ecosystem of services. While most Apple devices can function independently without a constant cloud connection, some features and services do rely
on cloud integration.
Here are the key products and scenarios where cloud login is relevant:
1. **iPhone and iPad**:
- **iCloud**: iPhones and iPads heavily rely on iCloud for features
like device backup, photo synchronization, Find My iPhone,
and seamless app data sharing across devices.
- **App Store**: To download apps from the App Store, users need an
Apple ID (which is tied to iCloud).
2. **MacBooks and iMacs**:
- **iCloud**: Similar to iOS devices, Macs use iCloud for data synchronization, Keychain, and Find My Mac.
- **App Store**: To download apps from the Mac App Store, users need an Apple ID.
3. **Apple Watch**:
- **iCloud**: Apple Watches sync health data, watch faces, and settings through iCloud.
- **Activation Lock**: If the watch is lost or stolen, Activation Lock prevents unauthorized use.
4. **Apple TV**:
- **Apple ID**: Users need an Apple ID to access the App Store, stream content from
Apple TV+, and use features like HomeKit.
5. **HomePod and HomePod mini**:
- **Apple ID**: HomePods require an Apple ID for setup and access to
Apple Music, HomeKit, and personalized features.
6. **AirPods and AirPods Pro**:
- While AirPods themselves don't require cloud login, features like
automatic switching between devices and Find My AirPods rely on iCloud.
7. **Apple Services**:
- **Apple Music**: Requires an Apple Music subscription and iCloud Music Library
for seamless music streaming across devices.
- **Apple TV+**: Subscribers need an Apple ID to access Apple's streaming service.
- **iMessage and FaceTime**: These messaging services work across devices using iCloud.
8. **HomeKit-Compatible Devices**:
- Devices like smart lights, thermostats, and security cameras integrated with
HomeKit require an Apple ID for setup and remote control via iCloud.
Remember that while cloud login enhances the user experience by enabling synchronization
and seamless transitions between devices, it's not strictly necessary for basic functionality.
Users can choose to use local accounts for some features and services.
Source: Conversation with Copilot, 6/29/2024
(1) Introduction to Apple platform security - Apple Support.
https://support.apple.com/guide/security/intro-to-apple-platform-security-seccd5016d31/web
(2) Apple at Work - Platform Security.
https://www.apple.com/business/docs/site/AAW_Platform_Security.pdf
(3) How to use Apple's advanced iCloud security tools.
https://www.computerworld.com/article/1618339/how-to-use-apples-advanced-icloud-security-tools.html
*******
Question: When using ChromeOS, do I need a cloud login to make it work ?
**ChromeOS**, the operating system developed by Google, is designed to
work seamlessly with cloud-based services. Here are some key points regarding ChromeOS and cloud login:
1. **Cloud-Centric Approach**:
- **ChromeOS** is inherently cloud-centric. It relies heavily on cloud services for
storage, synchronization, and application functionality.
- When you sign in to a Chromebook or ChromeOS device, you typically use your
**Google Account** credentials. This account serves as your gateway to
the cloud-based ecosystem.
2. **Google Account Sign-In**:
- **Users must enter their Google Account username and password each time they
sign in to their device**.
- If your organization uses **SAML single sign-on (SSO)** for devices, users
are directed to the SAML identity provider (IdP) page without manually
entering their email address².
3. **ChromeOS Flex**:
- Google offers **ChromeOS Flex**, a secure, cloud-based OS for PCs and Macs.
It brings the benefits of ChromeOS to existing devices.
- With **ChromeOS Flex**, you can make your existing PCs and Macs faster and
more secure. It offers features like 6-second boot-up times and automatic background updates.
- Set-up is straightforward: create a bootable ChromeOS Flex USB drive, install
it on your PC or Mac to replace the existing operating system, and upgrade
other legacy devices via USB or network deployment¹.
4. **Offline Capabilities**:
- While ChromeOS is cloud-centric, it does have **offline capabilities**.
You can work offline with certain apps and files.
- However, the full power of ChromeOS is realized when connected to the internet,
as it leverages cloud services for data storage, synchronization, and collaboration⁵.
In summary, while ChromeOS doesn't strictly require a cloud login, its
design philosophy revolves around cloud integration. Whether you're using
a Chromebook or ChromeOS on other devices, having a Google Account enhances the experience by enabling seamless access to cloud-based services.
Source: Conversation with Copilot, 6/29/2024
(1) Set ChromeOS device policies - Chrome Enterprise and Education Help.
https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/1375678?hl=en
(2) Upgrade Your PC: Faster and More Secure with ChromeOS Flex.
https://chromeos.google/products/chromeos-flex/
(3) Chrome OS offline: Can you really use a Chromebook without the cloud ....
https://www.computerworld.com/article/1485641/chrome-os-offline-can-you-really-use-a-chromebook-without-the-cloud.html
(4) Google: We don't need Chrome OS, we want cloud login for PCs.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-we-dont-need-chrome-os-we-want-cloud-login-for-pcs/ <==== Year 2011
(5) Get started with Chrome & ChromeOS device management.
https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/13781354?hl=en
Article number (4) there, highlights the financial importance of
associating an account with an advertising profile you have for sale.
Paul wrote on Sat, 29 Jun 2024 03:47:18 -0400 :
You can ask ecosystem questions, of Copilot.
Hi Paul,
I studied AI in the late 1970's in grad school, and it bored me even then
(at that time it was all about probabilities and correcting them
endlessly), so I haven't kept up with the capabilities of AI lately.
Googling...
1. Copilot (Microsoft, previously BingChat, included in Windows 11,
apparently Copilot is on Windows 10 but in some limited fashion)
<https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-use-microsoft-copilot-ai-what-to-try>
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/welcome-to-copilot-on-windows-675708af-8c16-4675-afeb-85a5a476ccb0>
2. Gemini (Google, requires account, privacy implications)
<https://dorik.com/blog/how-to-use-gemini-ai>
3. ChatGPT (apparently it does not require a login to work via text only)
<https://chatgpt.com/auth/login>
<https://www.howtogeek.com/how-to-run-chatgpt-as-a-windows-app/>
4. Apple AI (doesn't actually work in the real world, only iPhone 15 Pro,
& doesn't work in Europe, etc., so it's mostly mere marketing fluff)
<https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/introducing-apple-intelligence-for-iphone-ipad-and-mac/>
5. Others?
The trick, of course, at least for free, is to get one of these to work via voice alone (STT and then TTS), which I do not think exists yet. Does it?
*******
Question for CoPilot:
Of all the Apple hardware products, which products require a
cloud login to function day-to-day ?
Answer:
Apple's hardware products are designed to work seamlessly with their
ecosystem of services. While most Apple devices can function independently >> without a constant cloud connection, some features and services do rely
on cloud integration.
Here are the key products and scenarios where cloud login is relevant:
1. **iPhone and iPad**:
- **iCloud**: iPhones and iPads heavily rely on iCloud for features
like device backup, photo synchronization, Find My iPhone, >> and seamless app data sharing across devices.
- **App Store**: To download apps from the App Store, users need an
Apple ID (which is tied to iCloud).
2. **MacBooks and iMacs**:
- **iCloud**: Similar to iOS devices, Macs use iCloud for data synchronization, Keychain, and Find My Mac.
- **App Store**: To download apps from the Mac App Store, users need an Apple ID.
3. **Apple Watch**:
- **iCloud**: Apple Watches sync health data, watch faces, and settings through iCloud.
- **Activation Lock**: If the watch is lost or stolen, Activation Lock prevents unauthorized use.
4. **Apple TV**:
- **Apple ID**: Users need an Apple ID to access the App Store, stream content from
Apple TV+, and use features like HomeKit.
5. **HomePod and HomePod mini**:
- **Apple ID**: HomePods require an Apple ID for setup and access to
Apple Music, HomeKit, and personalized features.
6. **AirPods and AirPods Pro**:
- While AirPods themselves don't require cloud login, features like
automatic switching between devices and Find My AirPods rely on iCloud.
7. **Apple Services**:
- **Apple Music**: Requires an Apple Music subscription and iCloud Music Library
for seamless music streaming across devices.
- **Apple TV+**: Subscribers need an Apple ID to access Apple's streaming service.
- **iMessage and FaceTime**: These messaging services work across devices using iCloud.
8. **HomeKit-Compatible Devices**:
- Devices like smart lights, thermostats, and security cameras integrated with
HomeKit require an Apple ID for setup and remote control via iCloud.
This is a good summary Paul. Very good. Thanks. AI is useful I guess.
Notice that the users' App Store login is required ONLY on Apple devices;
it is not required on Android or Linux or Windows (AFAIAA).
I haven't had any Google (or Samsung) account on my Galaxy for years, and I can easily download off the Google Play Store repository without it.
Having said that, I do realize most people log into their Google Account to download apps from the Google Play Store; but it turns out that there are FOSS Google Play Store clients (such as Aurora) that negate that need.
<https://aurorastore.org/> & <https://auroraoss.com/>
Same with YouTube, where there are FOSS YouTube clients which negate the
need to create an account on your phone & still get full functionality.
<https://newpipe.net/>
Same with the MUA, where there are plenty of privacy-aware MUAs on Android.
<https://email.faircode.eu/>
I don't know all that it's missing but I know it's missing the fact that
the messaging app, the way 99.99% of Apple users use it anyway, requires logging into the Apple Messaging servers. Which is a horrible privacy hole.
The Apple users "think" they have privacy; but it's only because Apple cleverly advertises that - but in reality - Apple knows EVERY message they make (due to the extensive metadata that Apple gets from the login action).
Note: The iOS messages app can work with SMS/MMS *without logging into* Apple's servers, but only 0.01% of Apple users would even know that, and
even fewer would do that because they then lose the walled-garden niceties that the dumb-terminal design of the iPhone/iPad provide those users.
Bear in mind, the dumb-terminal design has merits even in non Apple worlds.
If Linux/Android/Windows users felt like logging into an Internet server, they too would have all that walled-garden magic - plus compatibility.
<https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
Speaking of all the nice things that happen when you log into Internet servers, I'm sure WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, and many others using the dumb-terminal concept also get those niceties - but since they're not required to use messaging on Android, Linux and Windows, they're extras.
Remember that while cloud login enhances the user experience by enabling synchronization
and seamless transitions between devices, it's not strictly necessary for basic functionality.
Users can choose to use local accounts for some features and services.
The cloud itself isn't required for "basic functionality", but you can't do all the messaging things Apple owners crow about (like saving all your messages) without the dumb-terminal logging into the mainframe server - as most of those magical things (like the end-to-end encryption) require the metadata-saving account on the server.
Source: Conversation with Copilot, 6/29/2024
(1) Introduction to Apple platform security - Apple Support.
https://support.apple.com/guide/security/intro-to-apple-platform-security-seccd5016d31/web
(2) Apple at Work - Platform Security.
https://www.apple.com/business/docs/site/AAW_Platform_Security.pdf
(3) How to use Apple's advanced iCloud security tools.
https://www.computerworld.com/article/1618339/how-to-use-apples-advanced-icloud-security-tools.html
*******
Question: When using ChromeOS, do I need a cloud login to make it work ?
**ChromeOS**, the operating system developed by Google, is designed to
work seamlessly with cloud-based services. Here are some key points regarding ChromeOS and cloud login:
1. **Cloud-Centric Approach**:
- **ChromeOS** is inherently cloud-centric. It relies heavily on cloud services for
storage, synchronization, and application functionality.
- When you sign in to a Chromebook or ChromeOS device, you typically use your
**Google Account** credentials. This account serves as your gateway to >> the cloud-based ecosystem.
2. **Google Account Sign-In**:
- **Users must enter their Google Account username and password each time they
sign in to their device**.
- If your organization uses **SAML single sign-on (SSO)** for devices, users
are directed to the SAML identity provider (IdP) page without manually >> entering their email address².
3. **ChromeOS Flex**:
- Google offers **ChromeOS Flex**, a secure, cloud-based OS for PCs and Macs.
It brings the benefits of ChromeOS to existing devices.
- With **ChromeOS Flex**, you can make your existing PCs and Macs faster and
more secure. It offers features like 6-second boot-up times and automatic background updates.
- Set-up is straightforward: create a bootable ChromeOS Flex USB drive, install
it on your PC or Mac to replace the existing operating system, and upgrade
other legacy devices via USB or network deployment¹.
4. **Offline Capabilities**:
- While ChromeOS is cloud-centric, it does have **offline capabilities**.
You can work offline with certain apps and files.
- However, the full power of ChromeOS is realized when connected to the internet,
as it leverages cloud services for data storage, synchronization, and collaboration⁵.
In summary, while ChromeOS doesn't strictly require a cloud login, its
design philosophy revolves around cloud integration. Whether you're using
a Chromebook or ChromeOS on other devices, having a Google Account enhances >> the experience by enabling seamless access to cloud-based services.
Thank you for bringing up ChromeOS, which has a dumb-terminal use model
much like Apple does, so it's relevant even as I didn't even think of it.
Come to think of it, like ChromeOS, the Windows S also seems to be designed like Apple products are as dumb terminals logging into mainframe servers
for most of the functionality - even if much of that is simply cloud
storage (and in the case of Windows S, it's also the Microsoft App Store).
Delving deeper, we have to remember that even the HP Stream devices when converted from Windows S to Windows 10 Home or Windows 11 Home are more of
a dumb-terminal logging-into-a-mainframe-server concept in that they have
so small of a C:\ drive that you're pretty much "almost" forced into using cloud storage (as you can't even pin an app icon onto the Windows task bar
if you've installed it onto an sdcard in the D:\ drive on HP Stream PCs.
Source: Conversation with Copilot, 6/29/2024
(1) Set ChromeOS device policies - Chrome Enterprise and Education Help.
https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/1375678?hl=en
(2) Upgrade Your PC: Faster and More Secure with ChromeOS Flex.
https://chromeos.google/products/chromeos-flex/
(3) Chrome OS offline: Can you really use a Chromebook without the cloud ....
https://www.computerworld.com/article/1485641/chrome-os-offline-can-you-really-use-a-chromebook-without-the-cloud.html
(4) Google: We don't need Chrome OS, we want cloud login for PCs.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-we-dont-need-chrome-os-we-want-cloud-login-for-pcs/ <==== Year 2011
(5) Get started with Chrome & ChromeOS device management.
https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/13781354?hl=en
Article number (4) there, highlights the financial importance of
associating an account with an advertising profile you have for sale.
In short, it seems that ChromeOS and Apple's iOS are both designed, from
the start, as dumb terminals which are basically non functional if you're
not constantly logging into the mainframe servers.
The problem with that use model is that without the Internet, almost
nothing works - and worse - even with the Internet - that one account knows every single thing you are doing in terms of metadata collection & storage.
Remember, no other operating system but iOS puts a unique code unique to
your Apple ID into every IPA app you install - even Google doesn't do that.
Certainly Linux & Windows don't insert a unique ID unique to you for every app you've installed.... do they?
How many years has it been since apple first started shitting on you?
Andrew,
You must be out of your mind to concern yourself
with this kind of thing.
You must be out of your mind to concern yourself
with this kind of thing.
Bill, you must be out of your mind to quote all 245 lines of
Andrew's article to just add your 2 cents.
Do the non-Apple common consumer operating systems (android, linux, >>win10/win11) work WITHOUT logging into the mothership mainframe servers?
I saw a complaint from a Windows 11 user to the effect that it would
not allow him to save stuff locally.
I tried to find out more about it for him and it appears that it
offers a chic, but his machine was set to log in to the MS server, and
he didn't know how to change it.
Someone else told me that Windows 11 does save files locally, but it
is so many levels deep that you have to be a hacker to find them.
Do the non-Apple common consumer operating systems (android, linux, >win10/win11) work WITHOUT logging into the mothership mainframe servers?
On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 04:54:02 -0000 (UTC), Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
wrote:
Do the non-Apple common consumer operating systems (android, linux,
win10/win11) work WITHOUT logging into the mothership mainframe servers?
I saw a complaint from a Windows 11 user to the effect that it would
not allow him to save stuff locally.
I tried to find out more about it for him and it appears that it
offers a chic, but his machine was set to log in to the MS server, and
he didn't know how to change it.
Someone else told me that Windows 11 does save files locally, but it
is so many levels deep that you have to be a hacker to find them.
W Sun, 30 Jun 2024 18:43:42 +0200, Steve Hayes napisal:
Do the non-Apple common consumer operating systems (android, linux, >>>win10/win11) work WITHOUT logging into the mothership mainframe servers?
I saw a complaint from a Windows 11 user to the effect that it would
not allow him to save stuff locally.
I tried to find out more about it for him and it appears that it
offers a chic, but his machine was set to log in to the MS server, and
he didn't know how to change it.
Someone else told me that Windows 11 does save files locally, but it
is so many levels deep that you have to be a hacker to find them.
I think Windows 11 wants you to create and continually log into a Microsoft mainframe server account so that they can start to market products to you
and so they can sell your meta data, but I don't think that Microsoft login account on the net is required for the essential operation of the device.
Right now, the hardware-test machine, has a new unlicensed W11 on it,
and there is no MSA on it. I'm waiting for that machine to crash.
Someone else told me that Windows 11 does save files locally, but it
is so many levels deep that you have to be a hacker to find them.
I think Windows 11 wants you to create and continually log into a Microsoft >> mainframe server account so that they can start to market products to you
and so they can sell your meta data, but I don't think that Microsoft login >> account on the net is required for the essential operation of the device.
I'm sure they'll try and find some excuse tho.
Also, if I don't set up the Windows 11 MSA for-profit account, what bad
things happen to me?
I had to do this multiple times, and eventually it worked.
I was doing this on a Win10 the other day, and it wasn't nearly as pestilent:
hit Shift + F10 and type OOBE/BYPASSNRO, which will let you create a local account
What happens if you do not create that MSA account on Windows 11?
On Mon, 1 Jul 2024 03:29:46 -0400, Paul wrote:
Right now, the hardware-test machine, has a new unlicensed W11 on it,
and there is no MSA on it. I'm waiting for that machine to crash.
My desktop can't upgrade to Windows 11 but I'd like to ask if I ever do upgrade to Windows 11, in simple terms, what are the basic steps NOT to do
in order to NOT have it set up the Windows 11 Microsoft Account on the net?
Also, if I don't set up the Windows 11 MSA for-profit account, what bad things happen to me?
What happens if you do not create that MSA account on Windows 11?
What happens if you do not create that MSA account on Windows 11?
To me, on this Win11 Home laptop ... nothing.
I think it asked me once to "finish off installing" or some such phrase.
W Mon, 1 Jul 2024 19:22:37 +0100, Andy Burns napisal:
What happens if you do not create that MSA account on Windows 11?
To me, on this Win11 Home laptop ... nothing.
I think it asked me once to "finish off installing" or some such phrase.
What is confusing is how nonchalant everyone is /today/ about the ability
to simply not create a Windows 11 MSA - but when Windows 11 first came
out
- it seemed everyone was saying that you must create an online MSA
account.
What changed?
W Mon, 1 Jul 2024 19:22:37 +0100, Andy Burns napisal:
What happens if you do not create that MSA account on Windows 11?
To me, on this Win11 Home laptop ... nothing.
I think it asked me once to "finish off installing" or some such phrase.
What is confusing is how nonchalant everyone is /today/ about the ability
to simply not create a Windows 11 MSA - but when Windows 11 first came out
- it seemed everyone was saying that you must create an online MSA account.
What changed?
W Mon, 1 Jul 2024 14:10:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 napisal:
I'm sure they'll try and find some excuse tho.Someone else told me that Windows 11 does save files locally, but it
is so many levels deep that you have to be a hacker to find them.
I think Windows 11 wants you to create and continually log into a Microsoft >>> mainframe server account so that they can start to market products to you >>> and so they can sell your meta data, but I don't think that Microsoft login >>> account on the net is required for the essential operation of the device. >>
What happens if you do not create that MSA account on Windows 11?
My desktop can't upgrade to Windows 11 but I'd like to ask if I ever do >upgrade to Windows 11, in simple terms, what are the basic steps NOT to do
in order to NOT have it set up the Windows 11 Microsoft Account on the net?
Also, if I don't set up the Windows 11 MSA for-profit account, what bad >things happen to me?
On 6/30/2024 8:49 AM, Kees Nuyt wrote:
You must be out of your mind to concern yourself
with this kind of thing.
Bill, you must be out of your mind to quote all 245 lines of
Andrew's article to just add your 2 cents.
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating systems
are designed to require logging into the maker's servers for most of the >vital essential services that comprise the core of the operating system.
On Sun, 30 Jun 2024 12:31:18 -0400, Larry Wolff
<larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
On 6/30/2024 8:49 AM, Kees Nuyt wrote:
You must be out of your mind to concern yourself
with this kind of thing.
Bill, you must be out of your mind to quote all 245 lines of
Andrew's article to just add your 2 cents.
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating systems
are designed to require logging into the maker's servers for most of the
vital essential services that comprise the core of the operating system.
It's not just a privacy concern.
The point about laptop computers is that they are *portable*. You can
take them to meetings at remote locations where there is no internet
access. You can take them to libraries and archives to do research.
You can use them (for a while) if the mains electricity goes off.
Being tethered to the mothership means that portable computers cease
to be portable and are forced to be, well, tethered.
On Mon, 1 Jul 2024 17:42:38 +0200, "Jan K." <janicekoziol@nie.ma.spamu.prosze.com> wrote:
W Mon, 1 Jul 2024 14:10:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 napisal:
Someone else told me that Windows 11 does save files locally,
but it is so many levels deep that you have to be a hacker to
find them.
I think Windows 11 wants you to create and continually log into
a Microsoft mainframe server account so that they can start to
market products to you and so they can sell your meta data, but
I don't think that Microsoft login account on the net is
required for the essential operation of the device.
I'm sure they'll try and find some excuse tho.
What happens if you do not create that MSA account on Windows 11?
It works.
It does on my wife's computer.
On 2024-07-01 20:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2024 12:31:18 -0400, Larry Wolff
<larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
On 6/30/2024 8:49 AM, Kees Nuyt wrote:
You must be out of your mind to concern yourself with this
kind of thing.
Bill, you must be out of your mind to quote all 245 lines of
Andrew's article to just add your 2 cents.
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating
systems are designed to require logging into the maker's servers
for most of the vital essential services that comprise the core
of the operating system.
It's not just a privacy concern.
The point about laptop computers is that they are *portable*. You
can take them to meetings at remote locations where there is no
internet access. You can take them to libraries and archives to do
research. You can use them (for a while) if the mains electricity
goes off.
Being tethered to the mothership means that portable computers
cease to be portable and are forced to be, well, tethered.
Ummmm...
I've had Mac laptops for more than 30 years.
I've never been tethered.
Steve Hayes wrote on 2/7/24 1:41 pm:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2024 17:42:38 +0200, "Jan K." <janicekoziol@nie.ma.spamu.prosze.com> wrote:
W Mon, 1 Jul 2024 14:10:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 napisal:
Someone else told me that Windows 11 does save files locally,
but it is so many levels deep that you have to be a hacker to
find them.
I think Windows 11 wants you to create and continually log into
a Microsoft mainframe server account so that they can start to
market products to you and so they can sell your meta data, but
I don't think that Microsoft login account on the net is
required for the essential operation of the device.
I'm sure they'll try and find some excuse tho.
What happens if you do not create that MSA account on Windows 11?
It works.
It does on my wife's computer.
Do you still get all the OS updates?? Or does MS think if you will not play nicely with them, they will not play nicely with you??
HMM! Is it part of the initial purchase agreement of the OS that MS MUST provide the purchaser with any relevant updates??
Do you still get all the OS updates?? Or does MS think if you will not
play nicely with them, they will not play nicely with you??
Daniel70 wrote:
Do you still get all the OS updates?? Or does MS think if you will not
play nicely with them, they will not play nicely with you??
What have updates got to do with an MSA?
Microsoft have been more and more insistent on creating an MSA at
install time, though there are still ways around it; even if they close
all the loopholes, you can install with an MSA, create a local admin
account then delete the MSA ... just make sure you have copies of any bitlocker keys elsewhere.
Andy Burns wrote:
Microsoft have been more and more insistent on creating an MSA at
install time, though there are still ways around it; even if they close
all the loopholes, you can install with an MSA, create a local admin
account then delete the MSA ... just make sure you have copies of any
bitlocker keys elsewhere.
I wouldn't be surprised if they would still send telemetry about that
account even after deletion..
Jan K. wrote:
AJL wrote:
What happens if you do not create that MSA account on Windows 11?
Can't speak for W11 but I'm posting with a cheapie 10" laptop
that I bought a few months ago (from Amazon, where else?) that
came with a W10 Pro local account (no MS sign up requested). I've
not had any problems for my use yet. YMMV of course...
Do you still get all the OS updates?? Or does MS think if you will
not play nicely with them, they will not play nicely with you??
HMM! Is it part of the initial purchase agreement of the OS that MS
MUST provide the purchaser with any relevant updates??
candycanearter07 wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Microsoft have been more and more insistent on creating an MSA at
install time, though there are still ways around it; even if they close >>> all the loopholes, you can install with an MSA, create a local admin
account then delete the MSA ... just make sure you have copies of any
bitlocker keys elsewhere.
I wouldn't be surprised if they would still send telemetry about that
account even after deletion..
I'm sure they send telemetry whatever you do, but there won't be much to
send about an account that's been deleted, and therefore can't login
Do you still get all the OS updates?? Or does MS think if you will
not play nicely with them, they will not play nicely with you??
I'm still getting updates on this Windows 10 Pro laptop (described
above) that has NEVER HAD an MS account. One update is waiting to
install now. However I read that the updates will stop in another year
unless I upgrade to Windows 11. And since there have been no offers I
suspect this cheapie laptop is not capable of using Windows 11.
HMM! Is it part of the initial purchase agreement of the OS that MS
MUST provide the purchaser with any relevant updates??
Dunno about agreements, but every new gadget I have had came with a
period of updates including my Chromebooks and Android toys...
(I never understood why people set a password on a home computer.)
Here in the big city home burglaries happen. My neighbor lost all his electronics in one. A home computer's passwords (pins in my case) are
all that stand between my data and the perp. Granted most stolen
electronics are likely wiped before resale but still one never knows...
(I never understood why people set a password on a home computer.)
AJL wrote on Tue, 2 Jul 2024 09:24:41 -0700 :
Even if your computer or phone is stolen, all they get is the device.(I never understood why people set a password on a home computer.)Here in the big city home burglaries happen. My neighbor lost all his
electronics in one. A home computer's passwords (pins in my case) are
all that stand between my data and the perp. Granted most stolen
electronics are likely wiped before resale but still one never knows...
Nobody who knows computers has sensitive data stored in the clear on them.
Besides... MARKETING is who is telling people they need to lock it all up. (There are reasons for why MARKETING wants this - but that's a long story.)
It's a standing joke that people who put biometric gimmicks on their phones
& computers must live in the slums - but it's not supposed to be literal.
AJL wrote on Tue, 2 Jul 2024 09:24:41 -0700 :
Here in the big city home burglaries happen. My neighbor lost all
his electronics in one. A home computer's passwords (pins in my
case) are all that stand between my data and the perp. Granted
most stolen electronics are likely wiped before resale but still
one never knows...
Even if your computer or phone is stolen, all they get is the
device.
Nobody who knows computers has sensitive data stored in the clear on
them.
It's a standing joke that people who put biometric gimmicks on their
phones
& computers must live in the slums - but it's not supposed to be
literal.
Putting locks like that on a *personal* home desktop computer or
phone is like welding bars across your windows & blocking the doors
with furniture.
If people can't trust their own spouse and children around their
personal desktop computers, then I feel sorry for them. I really do.
It's sad.
"I feel sorry for those who can't trust anyone"
Even if your computer or phone is stolen, all they get is the
device.
The only thing that stands between most folks Android phone's unlocked
Google data is the lock screen.
Nobody who knows computers has sensitive data stored in the clear on
them.
Agreed. My sensitive data requires 2 passwords/pins. One for the lock
screen and one for the sensitive app.
It's a standing joke that people who put biometric gimmicks on their
phones
I never could get my lock screen fingerprint to work the first time. I
found that I could more easily enter a pin in a few seconds.
& computers must live in the slums - but it's not supposed to be
literal.
Burglaries happen everywhere. In both good and bad parts of town.
Putting locks like that on a *personal* home desktop computer or
phone is like welding bars across your windows & blocking the doors
with furniture.
As I said I get a 2 second lock screen entry. Not all that terrible...
If people can't trust their own spouse and children around their
personal desktop computers, then I feel sorry for them. I really do.
It's sad.
My wife knows my pins/passwords in case I croak.
"I feel sorry for those who can't trust anyone"
I do trust some folks. But I still lock my house, car, and electronics...
I feel sorry for anyone who puts a lock on a phone or computer.
It's sad that they live in such intense fear of everyone around
them.
While Android can lock specific apps with an additional PIN, I'm not
aware Windows or Linux can lock specific apps with an addition PIN.
Can they?
I agree with you that, if locks are necessary, the PIN is very
reliable. Biometrics are a marketing gimmick
No other common consumer operating system (other than ChromeOS)
requires logging into mothership mainframe servers every moment of
your life.
if you set up your device intelligently - when it's stolen - you lose
no sensitive data.
They never get your sensitive data if you are intelligent about
setup.
Do the non-Apple common consumer operating systems (android, linux, win10/win11) work WITHOUT logging into the mothership mainframe servers?
My only question to the non-Apple newsgroups is whether or not it is a true statement of mine that no other common consumer operating system (not even Windows 11) requires a mothership tracking account for basic functionality (certainly I am well aware Android does not require it).
Is my statement correct for all the non-Apple common consumer systems?
Q: Does any non-Apple common OS require a mothership account for the
basic functionality of the operating system that people love about it?
That's all I ask to flesh out here, as I care only about the truth.
I will only respond to those who stick to the topic of whether the
non-Apple operating systems ALSO are set up on the dumb-terminal model
(with the inherent loss of privacy, particularly in meta-data collection).
Below is simply a note I wrote today,in response to a question on the
Apple iOS newsgroup
My Windows 10 Pro desktop has been getting updates from Microsoft for something like almost 15 years, given the free Windows OS upgrades.Windows 10 updates for 15 years! You must be the genius one to make
On 2024-07-01 20:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2024 12:31:18 -0400, Larry Wolff
<larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
On 6/30/2024 8:49 AM, Kees Nuyt wrote:
You must be out of your mind to concern yourself
with this kind of thing.
Bill, you must be out of your mind to quote all 245 lines of
Andrew's article to just add your 2 cents.
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating systems >>> are designed to require logging into the maker's servers for most of the >>> vital essential services that comprise the core of the operating system.
It's not just a privacy concern.
The point about laptop computers is that they are *portable*. You can
take them to meetings at remote locations where there is no internet
access. You can take them to libraries and archives to do research.
You can use them (for a while) if the mains electricity goes off.
Being tethered to the mothership means that portable computers cease
to be portable and are forced to be, well, tethered.
Ummmm...
I've had Mac laptops for more than 30 years.
On 02/07/2024 15:54, Andrew wrote:
My Windows 10 Pro desktop has been getting updates from Microsoft forWindows 10 updates for 15 years! You must be the genius one to make
something like almost 15 years, given the free Windows OS upgrades.
things up on these newsgroups.
On Mon, 1 Jul 2024 22:00:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-07-01 20:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2024 12:31:18 -0400, Larry Wolff
<larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
On 6/30/2024 8:49 AM, Kees Nuyt wrote:It's not just a privacy concern.
You must be out of your mind to concern yourself
with this kind of thing.
Bill, you must be out of your mind to quote all 245 lines of
Andrew's article to just add your 2 cents.
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating systems >>>> are designed to require logging into the maker's servers for most of the >>>> vital essential services that comprise the core of the operating system. >>>
The point about laptop computers is that they are *portable*. You can
take them to meetings at remote locations where there is no internet
access. You can take them to libraries and archives to do research.
You can use them (for a while) if the mains electricity goes off.
Being tethered to the mothership means that portable computers cease
to be portable and are forced to be, well, tethered.
Ummmm...
I've had Mac laptops for more than 30 years.
And they were all non-Apple?
Alan wrote on 2/7/24 3:00 pm:
On 2024-07-01 20:36, Steve Hayes wrote:.... except by the Wi-Fi or USB Dongle that you use to get your signal
On Sun, 30 Jun 2024 12:31:18 -0400, Larry Wolff
<larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
On 6/30/2024 8:49 AM, Kees Nuyt wrote:
You must be out of your mind to concern yourself with this
kind of thing.
Bill, you must be out of your mind to quote all 245 lines of
Andrew's article to just add your 2 cents.
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating
systems are designed to require logging into the maker's servers
for most of the vital essential services that comprise the core
of the operating system.
It's not just a privacy concern.
The point about laptop computers is that they are *portable*. You
can take them to meetings at remote locations where there is no
internet access. You can take them to libraries and archives to do
research. You can use them (for a while) if the mains electricity
goes off.
Being tethered to the mothership means that portable computers
cease to be portable and are forced to be, well, tethered.
Ummmm...
I've had Mac laptops for more than 30 years.
I've never been tethered.
out of your Mac laptops to where ever they are distend.
Otherwise the signal would NEVER have left your Mac laptop.
Alan wrote:
Ummmm...The first Mac laptop(the MacBook) was released in 2006(28 yrs ago)
I've had Mac laptops for more than 30 years.
I've never been tethered.
Prior to 2006, Apple's laptops were Apple Powerbooks and iBooks, but not
Mac laptops.
On 6/30/2024 8:49 AM, Kees Nuyt wrote:
You must be out of your mind to concern yourself
with this kind of thing.
Bill, you must be out of your mind to quote all 245 lines of
Andrew's article to just add your 2 cents.
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating systems
are designed to require logging into the maker's servers for most of the vital essential services that comprise the core of the operating system.
On 6/29/24 12:54 AM, Andrew wrote:
Do the non-Apple common consumer operating systems (android, linux,
win10/win11) work WITHOUT logging into the mothership mainframe servers?
My only question to the non-Apple newsgroups is whether or not it is a
true
statement of mine that no other common consumer operating system (not
even
Windows 11) requires a mothership tracking account for basic
functionality
(certainly I am well aware Android does not require it).
As far as I have seen, Linux does not require any hooks into any
Windows, Google, Apple, Mac connections.
As you or something in your article said, adding account logins just
enhances the experience. I myself use the google calendar events that
show on my Android phone and now show on my Linux calendar.
On 2024-06-30 09:31, Larry Wolff wrote:
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating systems
are designed to require logging into the maker's servers for most of the
vital essential services that comprise the core of the operating system.
What "vital essential services" would those be?
On 2024-07-02 01:45, Daniel70 wrote:
Alan wrote on 2/7/24 3:00 pm:
On 2024-07-01 20:36, Steve Hayes wrote:.... except by the Wi-Fi or USB Dongle that you use to get your signal
On Sun, 30 Jun 2024 12:31:18 -0400, Larry Wolff
<larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
On 6/30/2024 8:49 AM, Kees Nuyt wrote:
You must be out of your mind to concern yourself with this
kind of thing.
Bill, you must be out of your mind to quote all 245 lines of
Andrew's article to just add your 2 cents.
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating
systems are designed to require logging into the maker's servers
for most of the vital essential services that comprise the core
of the operating system.
It's not just a privacy concern.
The point about laptop computers is that they are *portable*. You
can take them to meetings at remote locations where there is no
internet access. You can take them to libraries and archives to do
research. You can use them (for a while) if the mains electricity
goes off.
Being tethered to the mothership means that portable computers
cease to be portable and are forced to be, well, tethered.
Ummmm...
I've had Mac laptops for more than 30 years.
I've never been tethered.
out of your Mac laptops to where ever they are distend.
Otherwise the signal would NEVER have left your Mac laptop.
But that is no more and no less "tethered" than any other personal
computer using any operating system.
On Mon, 8 Jul 2024 10:54:12 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-06-30 09:31, Larry Wolff wrote:
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating systems >>> are designed to require logging into the maker's servers for most of the >>> vital essential services that comprise the core of the operating system.
What "vital essential services" would those be?
My concerns are not so much "privacy" as working.
"Vital essential services" would be things like saving your work,
accessing your data on a laptop when away from home or in any other circumstances where an internet connection is not available.
Alan wrote on 9/7/24 3:50 am:
On 2024-07-02 01:45, Daniel70 wrote:
Alan wrote on 2/7/24 3:00 pm:
On 2024-07-01 20:36, Steve Hayes wrote:.... except by the Wi-Fi or USB Dongle that you use to get your
On Sun, 30 Jun 2024 12:31:18 -0400, Larry Wolff
<larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
On 6/30/2024 8:49 AM, Kees Nuyt wrote:
You must be out of your mind to concern yourself with this
kind of thing.
Bill, you must be out of your mind to quote all 245 lines of
Andrew's article to just add your 2 cents.
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating
systems are designed to require logging into the maker's servers
for most of the vital essential services that comprise the core
of the operating system.
It's not just a privacy concern.
The point about laptop computers is that they are *portable*. You
can take them to meetings at remote locations where there is no
internet access. You can take them to libraries and archives to do
research. You can use them (for a while) if the mains electricity
goes off.
Being tethered to the mothership means that portable computers
cease to be portable and are forced to be, well, tethered.
Ummmm...
I've had Mac laptops for more than 30 years.
I've never been tethered.
signal out of your Mac laptops to where ever they are distend.
Otherwise the signal would NEVER have left your Mac laptop.
But that is no more and no less "tethered" than any other personal
computer using any operating system.
Sorry! Are we talking at different things??
Currently, this Laptop uses its Wi-Fi to connect to a Box at the end of
my Landline Phone-line. If I were to take the Laptop to a Coffee-Bar,
the Wi-Fi would not work .... unless the Coffee-Bar offered Public Wi-Fi
.... but I'd have to obtain the Coffee-Bar Wi-Fi Password first.
Previously, I had a Dongle that I'd plug into a USB socket on this same Laptop and, as long as I was with-in 'sight' of a Telco Antenna, I could
talk to the world.
In either case, I considered that I WAS Tethered! Maybe not by a
physical wire, but Tethered none the less.
Are we talking at different things??
What "vital essential services" would those be?
My concerns are not so much "privacy" as working.
"Vital essential services" would be things like saving your work,
accessing your data on a laptop when away from home or in any other circumstances where an internet connection is not available.
On Tue, 09 Jul 2024 04:17:19 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:
What "vital essential services" would those be?
My concerns are not so much "privacy" as working.
"Vital essential services" would be things like saving your work,
accessing your data on a laptop when away from home or in any other
circumstances where an internet connection is not available.
The problem with the design of the entire Apple ecosystem (which is
different from Windows & Linux & Android) is that you stop logging into the Apple servers, the entire ecosystem stops working the way it's designed.
Very few companies other than Apple can convince dumb users that their devices stop working when you're no longer on the Internet is a good thing.
Alan wrote:
On 2024-07-02 23:48, ...winston wrote:
Alan wrote:
Ummmm...The first Mac laptop(the MacBook) was released in 2006(28 yrs ago)
I've had Mac laptops for more than 30 years.
I've never been tethered.
Prior to 2006, Apple's laptops were Apple Powerbooks and iBooks, but
not Mac laptops.
They were laptop Macintosh computers.
Ergo, colloquially, "Mac laptops".
But maybe you should tell these guys about it:
<https://everymac.com>
I only noted that Mac laptop were first released in 2006.
Whatever anyone was using 30 yrs ago wasn't a 'Mac **laptop**'
Previously, I had a Dongle that I'd plug into a USB socket on this same Laptop and, as long as I was with-in 'sight' of a Telco Antenna, I could
talk to the world.
In either case, I considered that I WAS Tethered! Maybe not by a
physical wire, but Tethered none the less.
Are we talking at different things??
Alan wrote on 9/7/24 3:50 am:
On 2024-07-02 01:45, Daniel70 wrote:
But that is no more and no less "tethered" than any other personal
computer using any operating system.
Sorry! Are we talking at different things??
Currently, this Laptop uses its Wi-Fi to connect to a Box at the end of
my Landline Phone-line. If I were to take the Laptop to a Coffee-Bar,
the Wi-Fi would not work .... unless the Coffee-Bar offered Public Wi-Fi
.... but I'd have to obtain the Coffee-Bar Wi-Fi Password first.
Previously, I had a Dongle that I'd plug into a USB socket on this same >Laptop and, as long as I was with-in 'sight' of a Telco Antenna, I could
talk to the world.
In either case, I considered that I WAS Tethered! Maybe not by a
physical wire, but Tethered none the less.
Are we talking at different things??
On 2024-07-08 19:17, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2024 10:54:12 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-06-30 09:31, Larry Wolff wrote:
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating systems >>>> are designed to require logging into the maker's servers for most of the >>>> vital essential services that comprise the core of the operating system. >>>What "vital essential services" would those be?
My concerns are not so much "privacy" as working.
"Vital essential services" would be things like saving your work,
Which works fine saving to the local drive.
accessing your data on a laptop when away from home or in any other
circumstances where an internet connection is not available.
Which works fine as previously stated.
You CAN make use of cloud services on a Mac if you choose to do so.
Off the top of my head:
On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 20:05:20 +1000, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
Alan wrote on 9/7/24 3:50 am:
On 2024-07-02 01:45, Daniel70 wrote:
But that is no more and no less "tethered" than any other personal
computer using any operating system.
Sorry! Are we talking at different things??
Currently, this Laptop uses its Wi-Fi to connect to a Box at the end of
my Landline Phone-line. If I were to take the Laptop to a Coffee-Bar,
the Wi-Fi would not work .... unless the Coffee-Bar offered Public Wi-Fi
.... but I'd have to obtain the Coffee-Bar Wi-Fi Password first.
Previously, I had a Dongle that I'd plug into a USB socket on this same
Laptop and, as long as I was with-in 'sight' of a Telco Antenna, I could
talk to the world.
In either case, I considered that I WAS Tethered! Maybe not by a
physical wire, but Tethered none the less.
Are we talking at different things??
Yes, we are talking about different things.
We are talking about computers that are no longer computers, but are
being turned into dumb terminals because they will not perform
functions that a stand-alone computer normall performs, like saving a document, without being tethered, not merely to the Internet, but to a particular site on the internet owned by the vendor of the computer's operating system - like asn Apple computer not working unless it is
linked to the Apple company's web site, or a Microsoft computer not
working unless it is linked to the Microsoft company's web site.
On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 09:23:37 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-07-08 19:17, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2024 10:54:12 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-06-30 09:31, Larry Wolff wrote:
It's a worthwhile privacy concern to think about which operating systems >>>>> are designed to require logging into the maker's servers for most of the >>>>> vital essential services that comprise the core of the operating system. >>>>What "vital essential services" would those be?
My concerns are not so much "privacy" as working.
"Vital essential services" would be things like saving your work,
Which works fine saving to the local drive.
accessing your data on a laptop when away from home or in any other
circumstances where an internet connection is not available.
Which works fine as previously stated.
You CAN make use of cloud services on a Mac if you choose to do so.
Off the top of my head:
But you have just yourself pointed out that a system with a Mac OS is
an Apple system.
If it is an Apple system, then in my understabnding of logic, it
cannot be non-Apple system. Check the subject line -- we are talking
here about *non-Apple* systems.
If it is an Apple system, then in my understabnding of logic, it
cannot be non-Apple system. Check the subject line -- we are talking
here about *non-Apple* systems.
Because the OP implies that Apple systems won't work well without
logging into Apple's servers...
...and that's bullshit.
On 2024-07-09 20:15, Steve Hayes wrote:
We are talking about computers that are no longer computers, but are
being turned into dumb terminals because they will not perform
functions that a stand-alone computer normall performs, like saving a
document, without being tethered, not merely to the Internet, but to a
particular site on the internet owned by the vendor of the computer's
operating system - like asn Apple computer not working unless it is
linked to the Apple company's web site, or a Microsoft computer not
working unless it is linked to the Microsoft company's web site.
There is no Apple computer or device made today that has that problem.
Are we talking at different things??
Yes, we are talking about different things.
We are talking about computers that are no longer computers, but are
being turned into dumb terminals because they will not perform
functions that a stand-alone computer normall performs, like saving a document, without being tethered, not merely to the Internet, but to a particular site on the internet owned by the vendor of the computer's operating system - like asn Apple computer not working unless it is
linked to the Apple company's web site, or a Microsoft computer not
working unless it is linked to the Microsoft company's web site.
On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 20:36:55 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-07-09 20:15, Steve Hayes wrote:
We are talking about computers that are no longer computers, but are
being turned into dumb terminals because they will not perform
functions that a stand-alone computer normall performs, like saving a
document, without being tethered, not merely to the Internet, but to a
particular site on the internet owned by the vendor of the computer's
operating system - like asn Apple computer not working unless it is
linked to the Apple company's web site, or a Microsoft computer not
working unless it is linked to the Microsoft company's web site.
There is no Apple computer or device made today that has that problem.
There is no Apple computer or device made today that has a non-Apple
common computer operating system.
Oh, I forgot Schrodinger's Apple OS.
Steve Hayes wrote on Wed, 10 Jul 2024 05:15:19 +0200 :
Are we talking at different things??
Yes, we are talking about different things.
We are talking about computers that are no longer computers, but are
being turned into dumb terminals because they will not perform
functions that a stand-alone computer normall performs, like saving a
document, without being tethered, not merely to the Internet, but to a
particular site on the internet owned by the vendor of the computer's
operating system - like asn Apple computer not working unless it is
linked to the Apple company's web site, or a Microsoft computer not
working unless it is linked to the Microsoft company's web site.
While this thread is specifically NOT about the dumb-terminal design of
Apple systems, it's well known to everyone that if you don't log into the Apple servers every moment of every day of the rest of your life, all the "walled-garden" stuff Apple users crow about, suddenly stops working.
Ask me how I know this (see images in the original post proving it).
It needs to be stated that this Alan Baker guy is what most of us would
refer to as a strange Apple religious fundamentalist zealot, who feels his only value in life is to defend Apple to the death, no matter what.
He doesn't even realize he had to log into Apple servers on the Internet
just to create the AppleID which is an Internet requirement that is found
on no other common consumer operating system.
Once he has that Apple ID on the Internet, he doesn't realize all his apps are tied specifically to that unique Apple ID such that no app installer
can be copied to another device (that doesn't have his unique Apple ID).
Again, that every app (even free apps) are locked to his specific ID is a requirement that is found on no other common consumer operating system.
Once he installs that app, which is locked to his Apple ID, if that app is
a key component of the infamous walled garden (such as Messages or
Facetime), then again he has to log into *another* Apple server on the Internet to use all the features of the walled garden he crows about.
It's well known that I have many Apple products where I specifically
decided to NOT log into the Apple Internet servers, where Apple
unilaterally bricks your login after about two years (twice!), and then,
On 7/9/2024 11:37 PM, Alan wrote:
If it is an Apple system, then in my understabnding of logic, it
cannot be non-Apple system. Check the subject line -- we are talking
here about *non-Apple* systems.
Because the OP implies that Apple systems won't work well without
logging into Apple's servers...
...and that's bullshit.
How do iPhone owners install apps without logging into Apple servers?
How do they even set up the iPhone without creating an iCloud account?
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 361 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 123:18:43 |
| Calls: | 7,716 |
| Files: | 12,861 |
| Messages: | 5,727,955 |
