• OT; Reflections on "computer"

    From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 11 10:41:10 2024
    I think we've got way past "computers". We've got into "devices".

    Smart phones. I phone for a taxi, and get a text saying "taxi dispatched
    to ..."; then as it arrives I get a call ringing.
    Or I catch a bus; but before going to the bus stop I've checked in with
    an app to see if one is on the way. At the bus stop I can also see where they're at on the route.

    Tablets. I have lots of ebooks. Preferable because you can enlarge the
    pages, check words, translate, give me previous mentions of a certain
    name, save the page without a card. In addition to email and normal
    browsing.

    A plethora of devices. Webcams, doorcams, watches, etc.

    The word "computer" has become as generic as "nail". Some teenager might
    well ask me "Do you mean laptop?"
    I wonder who invented the wheel? Some unrecorded genius in our
    pre-history. But quite soon it must have become mundane under "cart" and "carriage". People stopped gazing in wonder at the wheels and shifted
    their attention to the devices wheeled.

    Ed

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Big Al@21:1/5 to Ed Cryer on Tue Jun 11 07:57:20 2024
    On 6/11/24 05:41 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    I think we've got way past "computers". We've got into "devices".

    Smart phones. I phone for a taxi, and get a text saying "taxi dispatched to ..."; then as it arrives
    I get a call ringing.
    Or I catch a bus; but before going to the bus stop I've checked in with an app to see if one is on
    the way. At the bus stop I can also see where they're at on the route.

    Tablets. I have lots of ebooks. Preferable because you can enlarge the pages, check words,
    translate, give me previous mentions of a certain name, save the page without a card. In addition to
    email and normal browsing.

    A plethora of devices. Webcams, doorcams, watches, etc.

    The word "computer" has become as generic as "nail". Some teenager might well ask me "Do you mean
    laptop?"
    I wonder who invented the wheel? Some unrecorded genius in our pre-history. But quite soon it must
    have become mundane under "cart" and "carriage". People stopped gazing in wonder at the wheels and
    shifted their attention to the devices wheeled.

    Ed
    We shouldn't run this topic, we all know the 'Kleenex' and 'Xerox' story, however those we do know
    the origins. It rubs me, a bit, as a decade long hardware person, to hear 'I have a computer in my
    toaster too' type of comments as I think of them as more of a well designed logic chip. A smart
    refrigerator that can order groceries and make reminders and has internet abilities, yes.
    --
    Linux Mint 21.3, Cinnamon 6.0.4, Kernel 5.15.0-112-generic
    Al

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to Ed Cryer on Tue Jun 11 08:58:45 2024
    On 6/11/2024 5:41 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    I think we've got way past "computers". We've got into "devices".

    Smart phones. I phone for a taxi, and get a text saying "taxi dispatched
    to ..."; then as it arrives I get a call ringing.
    Or I catch a bus; but before going to the bus stop I've checked in with
    an app to see if one is on the way. At the bus stop I can also see where they're at on the route.

    Tablets. I have lots of ebooks. Preferable because you can enlarge the
    pages, check words, translate, give me previous mentions of a certain
    name, save the page without a card. In addition to email and normal
    browsing.

    A plethora of devices. Webcams, doorcams, watches, etc.

    The word "computer" has become as generic as "nail". Some teenager might
    well ask me "Do you mean laptop?"
    I wonder who invented the wheel? Some unrecorded genius in our
    pre-history. But quite soon it must have become mundane under "cart" and "carriage". People stopped gazing in wonder at the wheels and shifted
    their attention to the devices wheeled.

    I guess it depends on perspective. Computers are at
    the heart of modern technology, even when they shouldn't
    be. (Our new clothes washer wants to "communicate" instead
    of just giving me sensible dials to choose load size, temp, etc.)
    But even the most sophisticated computer is still just a fancy
    abacus. AI is just a complicated algorythm that simulates
    intelligence.

    I have a Texas Instruments solar calculator that cost me $10
    in 1985, at a drugstore. It still works perfectly. It's a computer.
    An abacus is a computer. It's all abstractions of numeric
    calculations. The enlarging pixels in your ebook are a math
    calculation, adjusting how many pixels (which are also abstracted
    numbers, usually representing RGB values,) should make up "A".
    There's nothing in computing that's more complicated than 1s
    and 0s. It all abstracts from there. Just as a lighted road sign can
    wish you "Happy Holidays", but the words are made up of only
    a number of small lightbulbs.

    Despite the sophistication of tech, none of it essentially changes
    human life. The myth of modernity is that our lives will *essentially*
    change with the next amazing invention. We invent medicines, easy
    chairs and vibrating dildoes, but those are all used with basic human
    motives. *There's nothing new under the sun.* That always holds
    true. Technology's glitter helps us to forget that, but at our peril.

    To my mind, the notable changes have been mixed blessings,
    as they usually are. We beat death, but that also helps us to
    deny death, and we now think that preserved specimens like
    Madonna or Dolly Parton are "taking care of themselves". We imagine
    that tech can save us from existential panic. Ray Kurzweil, the
    father of OCR at MIT, is taking handfuls of anti-oxidants in hopes
    of surviving until such time as he's able to download his "self"
    to a computer chip. Yet he's apparently never considered his
    own assumptions about what his "self" is and whether such a
    doubtful entity should or could be stored in binary data.

    You can call an Uber, yet Uber has been instrumental in destroying
    unions, work relationships, and even employer/employee
    relationships.

    Some like to see that as the liberation of the
    worker. But where's the liberation in barely paying rent with
    60 hours work per week? Where's the humanity in a taxi service
    that changes prices dramatically based on how many people
    need a ride? Is it an improvement that you can read an ebook
    but can't actually own your copy? Is it an improvement that
    you can order Pad Thai delivered to your door, but the restaurant
    can't afford to survive because they're busy paying delivery fees
    to DoorDash, and can't afford not to subscribe to DoorDash?

    A darker, more basic development, is the gradual corporatizing
    and "appification" of modern computing. The Internet was billed
    as a front door to the world, available to all. What we increasingly
    have restrictions. Spyware service apps running on kiosk devices,
    operated by corporations, and increasingly required for anything
    from driving directions to theater tickets. There are now middleman
    companies that handle something as simple as paying for a drink in
    a convenience store. Young people are even beginning to regard
    raw reality -- things like cash and other people -- as "unsafe".
    They prefer the comfort of apps.

    Yesterday I went to the dentist. Last week I had received an
    email asking me to confirm the appt. Not from my dentist. From
    Nexhealth.com. My dentist (who's fairly young) can't manage his
    computing needs, like scheduling. He pays Nexhealth to handle it.
    I clicked the Nexhealth link and arrived at a blank webpage. NoScript
    told me that at least 8 unrelated companies were trying to run
    script in my browser! Nexhealth only needed to process the unique
    ID in the URL parameter. But they had called in all their sleazy
    friends for a datamining party. Is that transcendent technology?

    I emailed the dentist's office and told them
    the webpage doesn't work but that I intended to keep the appt.
    When I got home there was another email from Nexhealth: "Please
    rate your dentist visit."

    Computers are merely tools. What we do with them is what
    matters. If we have a stick we can make a spear, fashion a dildo,
    use it as a fork, or make a fire. It's still just a stick.

    If we look to computers merely for convenience and
    futuristic titillation then it's no different from a baby transfixed
    by a mobile. In the end, we all die, even though our bodies may
    be packed with artifical organs, and butt or cheekbone implants,
    by the time we go. There's a Tibetan saying that you never know
    which will come first: The next day or the next life. Even if someone
    has an iPhone 27 that lives their life for them, at death's door,
    they can't take it with them.

    That reminds me of a great Gahan Wilson cartoon. Two women,
    dressed in black, are sitting on the front porch of a modest house.
    The screen door is open. Through it are rushing objects that
    are flying up into the sky. A dog, a piano, etc. The caption:
    "Oh, Harold's taking it with him."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AJL@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 11 08:13:21 2024
    On 6/11/2024 5:58 AM, Newyana2 wrote:

    Some like to see that as the liberation of the worker.

    Yup. We also pretty much liberated the buggy whip maker some years back. Terrible.

    But where's the liberation in barely paying rent with 60 hours work
    per week? Where's the humanity in a taxi service that changes prices dramatically based on how many people need a ride?

    All taxi drivers will be going the way of the buggy whip soon with AI.
    Same with fighter pilots. Terrible.

    Is it an improvement that you can read an ebook but can't actually
    own your copy?

    My ebooks are with me for life and can be passed on. Big improvement
    over my paperback days IMO...

    Is it an improvement that you can order Pad Thai delivered to your
    door, but the restaurant can't afford to survive because they're
    busy paying delivery fees to DoorDash, and can't afford not to
    subscribe to DoorDash?

    It is for the consumer. Competition brings down prices. And there are
    still plenty of restaurants in my area. YMMV...

    (Written with a W10 OS so on topic?)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 11 19:07:22 2024
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to AJL on Tue Jun 11 17:15:30 2024
    On 6/11/2024 11:13 AM, AJL wrote:

    Is it an improvement that you can order Pad Thai delivered to your
    door, but the restaurant can't afford to survive because they're
    busy paying delivery fees to DoorDash, and can't afford not to
    subscribe to DoorDash?

    It is for the consumer. Competition brings down prices. And there are
    still plenty of restaurants in my area. YMMV...


    So you don't mind if lots of them go out of business,
    so long as you get bargains? What I'm talking about is not
    technology eliminating jobs. I'm talking about exploitive
    corporations who cheat others using technology. The
    restaurants end up with no choice but to sign up, but
    then end up paying fees they can't afford. DoorDash
    Ends up in the middle, exploiting both restaurants and
    drivers. They even advertise restaurants that won't sign
    up with them.

    There was a funny story about that:

    https://www.readmargins.com/p/doordash-and-pizza-arbitrage

    A pizza restaurant owner wanted nothing to do with DD.
    His aim was a quality eat-in restaurant. Then he started to
    get complaints about his deliveries and realized DD was advertising
    his pizza without permission. The man figured out that DD was
    mistakenly charging $16 for his $24 pizza. So he had his friend
    order 10 pizzas and pay $160. The DD driver then showed up
    and paid $240 for those pizzas and delivered them to his friend's
    house. Then he realized that since these pizzas were going
    to his friend, he didn't need to put pizzas in the boxes. So his
    friend ordered another 10 pizzas, they put some dough in the boxes,
    and made another $80 plus the money saved on the pizza content.
    Crazy stuff. But for most restaurants it's not so funny.

    I always get a kick out of people who think the way you do,
    thinking that you're the smartest guy in the room because
    you're a bargain hunter who doesn't care about anyone else.
    Restaurants are businesses, run by people with families and
    bills to pay. If they can't afford good food, they'll cut corners.
    There are already no restaurants worth visiting where I live.
    (The pad thai is mostly just noodles. It used to be packed
    with shrimp, peanuts and egg.)

    I worked in a lot of restaurants when I was young.
    My very first job (after a paper route) was McDonalds.
    Periodically someone would come in who thought they
    were being clever. They'd order something like a burger with
    only ketchup, so that it would have to be made fresh.
    Then we window clerks would gather around to watch the
    cook ceremoniously clear his throat and spit on that burger,
    because cooking it interrupted his routine of 24-burger
    batches.

    Sending food back for minor reasons, out of vanity, is
    another dumb trick done by vain fools who never imagine
    that the waiter or waitress might abuse their food before
    bringing it back.

    I'm guessing you've eaten a fair amount of other peoples'
    mucus and dead flies in your time. On the bright side, I'm
    sure you got it for 15% off and got another 3% kickback from
    your charge card. Now THAT's a smart shopper. :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AJL@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 11 16:10:32 2024
    On 6/11/2024 2:15 PM, Newyana2 wrote:

    So you don't mind if lots of them [restaurants] go out of business,
    so long as you get bargains?

    If they can't survive the competition yes they should fail.

    I'm talking about exploitative corporations who cheat others using technology.

    Technology does help with efficiency. (The buggy whip example.)

    The restaurants end up with no choice but to sign up [home delivery
    service].

    Course they have a choice.

    you're a bargain hunter who doesn't care about anyone else.

    My bill for 2 at Texas Roadhouse + tip last week was $100 US. Yup I'm a
    real bargain hunter...

    Restaurants are businesses, run by people with families and bills to
    pay.

    My Texas Roadhouse has always been packed when I'm there.

    There are already no restaurants worth visiting where I live.

    YMMV...

    I worked in a lot of restaurants when I was young.

    Me too. 50 cents an hour (1950s)

    I'm guessing you've eaten a fair amount of other peoples' mucus and
    dead flies in your time.

    Probably. Hopefully good protein...

    On the bright side, I'm sure you got it for 15% off and got another
    3% kickback from your charge card. Now THAT's a smart shopper. :)

    Guilty. I do have a cash back card.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)