XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 5/31/24 04:59 PM, Jack wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All
the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11LTSC>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11>

The release date is October (tentative).

I read these things (me personally) and whoosh, over the head. It's like reading the doctors lab
report on your x-ray. You sit there with a dictionary looking up 60% of the words as you go along
and at the end you know less than when you started.
... I had an older sister who worked the emergency room for quite a few years, and found myself just
bringing the report to her to read.

I tried reading down the TPM information and clicking a link and it was like Alice and the rabbit
hole. Gotta love the internet, it's a lot easier and faster to get lost now. 😀
--
Linux Mint 21.3, Cinnamon 6.0.4, Kernel 5.15.0-107-generic
Al

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All
the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11LTSC>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11>

The release date is October (tentative).

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 5/31/2024 4:59 PM, Jack wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All
the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11LTSC>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11>

The release date is October (tentative).

What does IoT mean, Jack ?

Where do I download this ?

Paul

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 31/05/2024 23:52, Paul wrote:

On 5/31/2024 4:59 PM, Jack wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All
the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11LTSC>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11>

The release date is October (tentative).

What does IoT mean, Jack ?

Internet of Things.

Where do I download this ? >?

<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/download-windows-11-iot-enterprise-ltsc>

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 5/31/24 06:52 PM, Paul wrote:

On 5/31/2024 4:59 PM, Jack wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All
the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11LTSC>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11>

The release date is October (tentative).

What does IoT mean, Jack ?

Where do I download this ?

Paul

There is a download link lower in the left side list of things. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/downloads
--
Linux Mint 21.3, Cinnamon 6.0.4, Kernel 5.15.0-107-generic
Al

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 5/31/2024 7:27 PM, Big Al wrote:

On 5/31/24 06:52 PM, Paul wrote:

On 5/31/2024 4:59 PM, Jack wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All >>> the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11LTSC>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11>

The release date is October (tentative).

What does IoT mean, Jack ?

Where do I download this ?

    Paul

There is a download link lower in the left side list of things. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/downloads

"You can download Windows IoT Enterprise using your Visual Studio Subscription."

It has the word Enterprise in it. Normally, with the exception of applying
for a trial version (giving full ID to Microsoft), they don't hand out media
to just anyone. Only Home/Pro or similar SKUs have openly available downloads. Enterprise comes from a "drug dealer" :-) It's that place down the street
with the big motorcycles parked, and a steel door on the entrance.

"Register for your free trial today"

Complete the form below.

*First name

*Last name

*Shoe size

...

IoT used to have no motion graphics on the HDMI, just a fixed
background for your IoT device, but that has probably changed by now.

"Windows 10 IoT (Internet of Things) Core Demo"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdiMrynNHuI

Paul

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 5/31/24 16:40, Paul wrote:

"Register for your free trial today"

Complete the form below.

*First name

*Last name

*Shoe size

You forget "blood type"

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 5/31/24 19:32, ...winston wrote:

Paul wrote:

What does IoT mean, Jack ?

Where do I download this ?

"Windows 10 IoT (Internet of Things) Core Demo"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdiMrynNHuI

   Paul

:)
Asking questions when you know the answer?

For those reading along the behind-the-steel-door charade game

Windows IOT
 - Different subfamilies of o/s
 - e.g. For Embedded devices
  => small footprints(OEM including other 3rd party sources pre-built)
     Other third party small footprints with embedded are in use in a variety of industries(some of the unique uses are suppliers in aerospace/defense for land/underwater military application and suppliers
to oil and transportation industries)
  => POS(point of sale devices) - stand-alone in business in Kiosk type all-in-in one systems.

i.e. 24H2 for old computers with lower minimum specs is more a bridge
before the old devices reach obsolescence and until new hardware with
those lower specs no longer is avaiable.

For this group's users 24H2 on old computers has little benefit or value..i.e. an absurd pretense of something perceived to be useful.

For older computer, you should consider Mint or Fedora Mate
or Fedora Xfce. Mint is insanely easy to use. Fedora
is better supported and better security. Mate and Mint are
really close in ease of use. Xfce is a bit more complicate
and better for power users.

I primarily use Fedora Xfce but also have Fedora Mate installed.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Jack wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All
the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11LTSC>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11>

The release date is October (tentative).

IoT. Isn't that an acronym for "Internet of Things", as in
refrigerators, doorbells, TVs, etc.?

--
John C.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Op 1-6-2024 om 0:52 schreef Paul:

On 5/31/2024 4:59 PM, Jack wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All
the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11LTSC>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11>

The release date is October (tentative).

What does IoT mean, Jack ?

Where do I download this ?

Paul

My first thought is: Internet of Things.

Rink

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All
the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11LTSC>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11>

The release date is October (tentative).

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/overview
"However, when it comes to licensing and distribution, the desktop
version and IoT versions differ as the Windows IoT Enterprise product
line is intended for fixed purpose devices."

Don't remember seeing any users here that are designers or manufacturers
of IoT devices where this edition of Windows is applicable. The IoT
edition of Windows is for embedded systems: users don't use the OS, they
use the device.

"Windows IoT Enterprise LTSC is designed for fixed purpose devices and
use cases where functionality and features remain constant for the life
of the device."

Users here run programs and apps under an OS. They aren't involved in
how the embedded OS in a smartwatch works, or how to add apps to their
home thermostat, or changing how the in-built computer in their
refrigerator works. Cashiers don't alter the suite of programs in the register.

Is there a newsgroup that discusses embedded operating systems?

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 01/06/2024 16:56, VanguardLH wrote:

J

Don't remember seeing any users here that are designers or manufacturers
of IoT devices where this edition of Windows is applicable. The IoT
edition of Windows is for embedded systems: users don't use the OS, they
use the device.

You don't have to be a designer or manufacturer to use this system. The
OS is a complete version without needing Microsoft Account or the TPM or
UEFI and other requirements that people don't like about Windows 11. I
suggest watch this video before jumping to uninformed opinion.

<https://youtu.be/8FvxUSjmHeQ?si=k3xqFx-Jqb56ov8A>

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Don't remember seeing any users here that are designers or
manufacturers of IoT devices where this edition of Windows is
applicable. The IoT edition of Windows is for embedded systems:
users don't use the OS, they use the device.

You don't have to be a designer or manufacturer to use this system.
The OS is a complete version without needing Microsoft Account or the
TPM or UEFI and other requirements that people don't like about
Windows 11. I suggest watch this video before jumping to uninformed
opinion.

<https://youtu.be/8FvxUSjmHeQ?si=k3xqFx-Jqb56ov8A>

Everyone is ignorant of something. I don't pretend to be God. Debate
and asking is how one learns. Presumably your response means I could
use the Windows IoT (10 or 11 versions) on a desktop PC. Correct?

As for the video, it supports the precent that the IoT version is for
fixed devices having a lifespan of more than 10 years. Again, users use
the device, not the OS. From what I have read, the IoT version has less bloatware. That means it is not a binary duplicate of the non-IoT
version. Know of any comparison tables that list what features are
missing in the IoT version compared to the desktop version?

An upgrade from my Win10 setup of my desktop to Win11 IoT (if I wanted
to eliminate the bloat) costs money. I'd have to buy an IoT license.
An upgrade from Win10 to Win11 is free. If I needed the absence of TPM
and UEFI support, I'd have to build an older setup, but I supposed lots
of folks still running Win7, or earlier, would still have those old
builds.

IoT version is streamlined meaning the lack of bloat features. After
all, it is designed of use of devices, not for use by users of the OS.
I keep seeing "streamlined" mentioned for IoT, just like before when
looking at Windows Embedded. So, there must be something missing from
IoT compared to the desktop version. How could an embedded or IoT
version be streamlined or debloated without removing something? Knowing
what got pulled out of the IoT version would help in determining if it
is still suitable for an end-user general purpose OS.

Apparently IoT versions only get quality updates aka cummulative updates
aka Patch Tuesday. Those would include security updates. Never a new
build version, because IoT users don't get feature updates, but that's
the point of the IoT version.

What happens to Windows 11 IoT (and Windows 10 IoT) when Microsoft
releases Windows 12 around October of this year (2024)? Will there be a Windows 12 IoT? While a lot of changes are unimportant between the
major versions, often there are core changes that are desirable, or even required by apps/programs.

Pricing for IoT is based on performance level: entry, mid, and high
level CPU. Non-IoT versions have fixed prices regardless of which CPU
or BIOS you have. Rather than find Windows online to find a price, you
have to contact an MS partner or distributor to get a price quote for a license. Well, even you know when you have to get a quote that the
price will be a lot higher, and depends on the depth of your pockets,
number of seats, etc. Apparently you can get a Core version of IoT
designed for POC (Proof Of Concept) development, but where is the
download for that? What is missing in the Core IoT version from the
full IoT version?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/download-windows-11-iot-enterprise-ltsc

The IoT evaluation download is a 90-day trial. So much for the 10-year lifecycle. Not sure anyone here wants to use a de-bloated IoT version
that lasts for only 3 months, or wants to pay the high price to get a
quote for a license to keep using for that 10-year lifecycle.

The IoT LTSC version gets 10 years of support. Okay, but is it free?
Do you even get a limited number of support tickets with the much more expensive license? That a product is supported doesn't mean the support
is free. Might you end up having to buy a bunch of support tickets from Microsoft to actually get support during that 10 year lifecycle? With
the higher cost for the IoT license, is support free for the entire term
of the license?

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 02/06/2024 02:22, VanguardLH wrote:

Everyone is ignorant of something. I don't pretend to be God. Debate
and asking is how one learns. Presumably your response means I could
use the Windows IoT (10 or 11 versions) on a desktop PC. Correct?

Yes IMO. But we are all different and our requirements are different.

As for the video, it supports the precent that the IoT version is for
fixed devices having a lifespan of more than 10 years. Again, users use
the device, not the OS. From what I have read, the IoT version has less bloatware. That means it is not a binary duplicate of the non-IoT
version. Know of any comparison tables that list what features are
missing in the IoT version compared to the desktop version?

No official list anywhere. Users have to install the evaluation version
to see for themselves.

An upgrade from my Win10 setup of my desktop to Win11 IoT (if I wanted
to eliminate the bloat) costs money.

Yes it costs money. It's a different product of Windows 11 (or Windows
10) family. It's like somebody upgrading a Home version to Professional
version but it costs money. Even to "downgrade" from Professional to
Home requires a new license. That's how Licenses work.

I'd have to buy an IoT license.
An upgrade from Win10 to Win11 is free.

It was free for a limited time. It's no longer free. People already
using the free version retains the digital license on that device but re-installation on another machine requires a new license. Even Retail
licenses of Windows 10 don't get free upgrade to Windows 11 because this
was a limited Microsoft give-away. Not any more.

If I needed the absence of TPM
and UEFI support, I'd have to build an older setup, but I supposed lots
of folks still running Win7, or earlier, would still have those old
builds.

If you build a new machine in 2024, the chances are it will meet the
Windows 11 requirements of TPM because most Mobos are compliant. I'm
talking about latest Mobos, not some old inventory that stores are
trying to get rid of. Always get the latest version for long term use
and OS compliant.

IoT version is streamlined meaning the lack of bloat features. After
all, it is designed of use of devices, not for use by users of the OS.

You seem to misunderstand. Your computer is a device. It uses the OS to
do something. Windows is an OS. People don't use OS for anything else
because it can't do anything without applications to run on it. This
LTSC version is a streamlined OS but users can download different
applications to run on it. The one I am using is running Firefox, VS
Code, 7-zip and Thunderbird. I had to download these and install them.
Notepad is already installed by default as is Edge. Other Apps can be downloaded from the store or from the appropriate websites. You can
install LibreOffice or Microsoft Office if this is what you want. I have
not installed LibreOffice because I am running this evaluation version
in Virtual Box.

I keep seeing "streamlined" mentioned for IoT, just like before when
looking at Windows Embedded. So, there must be something missing from
IoT compared to the desktop version.

Yes all the bloat is missing. Paint for example or Games such as
Solitaire or xBox, OneDrive etc etc. CoPilot is included but it is part
of Edge these days. The video needs to be updated in the next few days.

How could an embedded or IoT
version be streamlined or debloated without removing something? Knowing
what got pulled out of the IoT version would help in determining if it
is still suitable for an end-user general purpose OS.

Removed does not mean it can't be installed. Things have been removed
because businesses don't use them. LTSC versions are mainly for
corporates not for home users. Without knowing what the end-user uses
the computer for, it's is almost impossible to suggest or recommend
anything.

Apparently IoT versions only get quality updates aka cummulative updates
aka Patch Tuesday. Those would include security updates. Never a new
build version, because IoT users don't get feature updates, but that's
the point of the IoT version.

Microsoft's Patch Tuesday updates includes new features. There are no
"Service Packs" these days. You only get monthly updates and sometimes
these also includes new features. Are people actually interested new
features? If so then June updates will have these as new features?

*

*/New!/ * This update adds a feature that stops you from
accidentally closing the Windows share window. Clicking outside of
the window will no longer close it. To close it, select the close
button at the upper-right corner.

*

*/*New!/ * You can now use your mouse to drag files between
breadcrumbs in the File Explorer address bar. A breadcrumb shows
the path to your current file location in the address bar. For
example, there are three breadcrumbs in the path *This PC* >
*Windows (C:)* > *Program Files*.

*

*/*New!/ * This update adds a page to *Settings* > *Accounts
*called Linked devices. On it, you can manage your PCs and Xbox
consoles. This page only shows on Home and Pro editions when you
sign in to Windows using your Microsoft account (MSA).

*

*/*New!/ * This update starts the rollout of the new account
manager on the Start menu. When you use a Microsoft account to
sign in to Windows, you will get a glance at your account
benefits. This feature also makes it easy to manage your account
settings.

*

*/*New!/ * You can now create quick response (QR) codes for
webpage URLs and cloud files from the Windows share window. Select
the share button in the Microsoft Edge toolbar and choose “Windows
share options.” Then, you can share the URLs and files across your
devices.

*

*/*New!/ * Windows will now back up many of your sound settings
(this includes your sound scheme). This only occurs if you turn on
*Remember my preferences* and select the checkboxes for
*Personalization* and *Other Windows settings*.To find these, go
to *Settings *>*Accounts *>*Windows backup*. Then, you can use the
Windows Backup app to restore those settings on a new device.

*

*/*New/ * Starting with this update, you can sign in to your
Microsoft account in the Windows Backup app. This app saves
backups to your account.

*

*/*New!/ * You can now send email to yourself from the Windows
share window. You will receive the email at the email address that
is in your Microsoft account.

*

*/*New!/ * This update starts the rollout of a the “Add now”
button to *Settings *>*Account*. When you select it, you can add a
recovery email address if you have not added one for your
Microsoft account yet. The button only shows if you sign in to
your Microsoft account.

Are you really interested in these new features? Let us know!!

What happens to Windows 11 IoT (and Windows 10 IoT) when Microsoft
releases Windows 12 around October of this year (2024)? Will there be a Windows 12 IoT?

Yes. There was Windows 10 LTSC, Windows 11 LTSC and so there will be
Windows 12 LTSC. However, this is just my conjecture. Microsoft might
change its mind if the demand is not enough to justify spending time and
money on something new.

While a lot of changes are unimportant between the
major versions, often there are core changes that are desirable, or even required by apps/programs.

Pricing for IoT is based on performance level: entry, mid, and high
level CPU. Non-IoT versions have fixed prices regardless of which CPU
or BIOS you have. Rather than find Windows online to find a price, you
have to contact an MS partner or distributor to get a price quote for a license. Well, even you know when you have to get a quote that the
price will be a lot higher, and depends on the depth of your pockets,
number of seats, etc. Apparently you can get a Core version of IoT
designed for POC (Proof Of Concept) development, but where is the
download for that? What is missing in the Core IoT version from the
full IoT version?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/download-windows-11-iot-enterprise-ltsc

The IoT evaluation download is a 90-day trial. So much for the 10-year lifecycle.

Trial versions have always been time-limited. It has nothing to do with
whether it is for 10 year life-cycle or not. They are trials versions
for people to try them and if they like it, they can buy the full
license. That's how software licenses have always worked. This 90 day
trial is still a beta version. It is not the final version that will be released in October or November this year.

Not sure anyone here wants to use a de-bloated IoT version
that lasts for only 3 months,

This is for testing purposes for IT professionals in Corporate
environment. Microsoft has another product called Windows 11 Enterprise
and this also is for Corporates <https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-11-enterprise>.

Nobody is saying that all users should buy these products. For most
people Home editions are sufficient for everyday tasks. Home Editions
can be upgraded to Professional but a new license is required.
Professional versions can be upgraded to Enterprise but a new license is required. There is nothing free from Microsoft. Everything has to be
paid for.

or wants to pay the high price to get a
quote for a license to keep using for that 10-year lifecycle.

The IoT LTSC version gets 10 years of support. Okay, but is it free?

No it's is not free. It's a different product!! but part of Windows 10
or Windows 11 family of products.

Do you even get a limited number of support tickets with the much more expensive license? That a product is supported doesn't mean the support
is free. Might you end up having to buy a bunch of support tickets from Microsoft to actually get support during that 10 year lifecycle? With
the higher cost for the IoT license, is support free for the entire term
of the license?

You seem to be quite new to Windows. Microsoft Support means you get
monthly security updates. Telephone support is limited to first 30 days
of purchase. After that it costs an arm and a leg to get additional
support. I don't think people spend time phoning Microsoft. I have never
phoned Microsoft for anything. The last time I ever phoned Microsoft was
during the XP days when Activation was introduced. I had to re-install
the OS because I screwed something and machine became very slow and
repair was impossible. It was easy to reinstall and start again. These
days the machine just activates. No need to phone Microsoft.

Finally. let me make one thing quite clear. This product is not for
casual home users. For them Home edition or Professional Edition will do
just fine. Windows is very stable these days but some people will always dislike Windows for whatever reasons because it is Microsoft product.
They need to complain about something even if it makes no sense at all. Microsoft and Google are the most hated corporations but people still
keep using their products. There are no alternatives otherwise they will
be using them rather than Windows. Linux and MacOS has a long way to go.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Fri, 31 May 2024 20:59:00 +0000, Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All
the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

I'm still waiting for a version that will run old software on new
computers.

I just have to hope that my old computer will not die before I do, as
it would make most of my data inaccessible, as it is irreplaceable.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

On Fri, 31 May 2024 20:59:00 +0000, Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All
the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

I'm still waiting for a version that will run old software on new
computers.

I just have to hope that my old computer will not die before I do, as
it would make most of my data inaccessible, as it is irreplaceable.

I wish you hadn’t snipped the link :(

Anyway, what I did to solve this problem is using virtual box to run a
couple of old operating systems. It takes a little effort but only once.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Steve Hayes wrote:

I'm still waiting for a version that will run old software on new
computers.

I just have to hope that my old computer will not die before I do, as
it would make most of my data inaccessible, as it is irreplaceable.

Running old hardware, virtualised, on new hardware should break the
dependence on irreplaceable hardware. Then just make sure you keep
sufficient backups of your operating system, apps and data.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 1 Jun 2024 15:09:49 +0200, Rink wrote:

My first thought is: Internet of Things.

Mine was: UTFS. <g>

--
s|b

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 6/2/24 20:59, Jack wrote:

There are no alternatives otherwise they will
be using them rather than Windows. Linux and MacOS has a long way to go.

That statement was valid about 10 years ago, but no longer.

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On 03 Jun 2024 07:08:35 GMT, Hank Rogers <invalid@nospam.com> wrote:

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

On Fri, 31 May 2024 20:59:00 +0000, Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All >>> the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

I'm still waiting for a version that will run old software on new
computers.

I just have to hope that my old computer will not die before I do, as
it would make most of my data inaccessible, as it is irreplaceable.

I wish you hadn’t snipped the link :(

Anyway, what I did to solve this problem is using virtual box to run a
couple of old operating systems. It takes a little effort but only once.

And I have seen several articles saying that virtual box is extremely
insecure.

One such article noted that just having such a computer connected to
the internet, without any attempt to *do* anything on the Internet,
led to the installation of malware on that computer within a few
minutes.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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Using <news:v3je9o$3oj8m$1@paganini.bofh.team>, Jack wrote:

People already
using the free version retains the digital license on that device but re-installation on another machine requires a new license. Even Retail licenses of Windows 10 don't get free upgrade to Windows 11 because this
was a limited Microsoft give-away. Not any more.

Can you clarify that, since we've enjoyed the free upgrade for years.

My wife's laptop came with Windows S, which I converted easily to Windows
10 Home which she upgraded (by mistake) to Windows 11 Home, and it works.

My (much older) desktop came with Windows "something" (as I don't remember) which was eventually upgraded to Windows 10 Pro which is what it has now.

Can I upgrade my Windows 10 Pro desktop to Windows 11 with this software
even as Windows 11 requirements, up until now, were too stringent to do it?

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Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

On 03 Jun 2024 07:08:35 GMT, Hank Rogers <invalid@nospam.com> wrote:

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

On Fri, 31 May 2024 20:59:00 +0000, Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All >>>> the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read >>>> all about it here:

I'm still waiting for a version that will run old software on new
computers.

I just have to hope that my old computer will not die before I do, as
it would make most of my data inaccessible, as it is irreplaceable.

I wish you hadn’t snipped the link :(

Anyway, what I did to solve this problem is using virtual box to run a
couple of old operating systems. It takes a little effort but only once.

And I have seen several articles saying that virtual box is extremely insecure.

One such article noted that just having such a computer connected to
the internet, without any attempt to *do* anything on the Internet,
led to the installation of malware on that computer within a few
minutes.

Sounds bad. I’d like to read those articles if you could please post the links.

Thanks!

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Using <news:v3e18s$2jmiu$1@dont-email.me>, ...winston wrote:

For this group's users 24H2 on old computers has little benefit or value..i.e. an absurd pretense of something perceived to be useful.

I have a circa 2010 desktop which is going strong on Windows 10, but the
one thing Windows 11 will provide to it would be the bugfix support.

It can dual boot to Centos or Ubuntu (both of which I'm familiar with); but
I am invested in a ton of software already that I'd have to find
replacements for which is more work than I feel like doing.

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Using <news:v3f608$2plhb$1@dont-email.me>, John C. wrote:

IoT. Isn't that an acronym for "Internet of Things", as in
refrigerators, doorbells, TVs, etc.?

Paul knows what IoT means in terms of abbreviations.
He was asking what Microsoft means by it.

Which usually means there's a catch.

Which is why Paul mentioned the Enterprise catches.
Marketing is clever. Paul is more clever.

The IoT buzzword, used by Microsoft, probably means something that none of
us would think it means - as it means whatever Microsoft marketing wanted
it to mean. And that's the question Paul asked.

What does IoT mean, to Microsoft?

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On 6/4/2024 12:14 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:

On 03 Jun 2024 07:08:35 GMT, Hank Rogers <invalid@nospam.com> wrote:

Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

On Fri, 31 May 2024 20:59:00 +0000, Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All >>>> the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read >>>> all about it here:

I'm still waiting for a version that will run old software on new
computers.

I just have to hope that my old computer will not die before I do, as
it would make most of my data inaccessible, as it is irreplaceable.

I wish you hadn’t snipped the link :(

Anyway, what I did to solve this problem is using virtual box to run a
couple of old operating systems. It takes a little effort but only once.

And I have seen several articles saying that virtual box is extremely insecure.

One such article noted that just having such a computer connected to
the internet, without any attempt to *do* anything on the Internet,
led to the installation of malware on that computer within a few
minutes.

Note, that the description you just gave, is for connecting a computer *directly* to a broadband modem, without an IPV4 NAT Router. If you have
a $39.95 router stuffed into the path, that should not happen with the
same gusto you describe (pawned in 20 seconds).

If you want to be owned, set up a WinXP computer and connect it directly
to a broadband modem (like an old Alcatel ADSL1 modem which has no router).
The OS will do the necessary PPPOE or PPPOA, and then you will be
connected directly to the Internet. And when that happens, things like
some of the old worms or file sharing hacks can be applied to you.

A good ISP, has pretty heavy filtering to prevent these sorts of attacks,
but not every ISP is a "quality operation". I used to get the shit
scanned out of me at one time, but the ISP put a stop to that
eventually. My current ISP, even has working DNS. Such modern convenience.

*******

Routers are not bullet-proof now. We used to rely on them at one time,
but there could be a hundred different models of routers right now,
that need firmware updates. In some cases, the newer firmware is
slower, and it tends to "ruin" the router. It can be minor issues,
like someone on the Internet being able to log into the router
with a service account (with a password everyone on the Internet knows).
And then they can configure the router from their side.

So while the $39.95 router used to be our "fortress", that's no longer
the case. Instead of taking 20 seconds to break into your PC,
now it might take five minutes (to knock out the router first).

But in any case, connecting a PC directly to the broadband modem, that's bad. Putting hurdles in front of the PC, improves things a bit :-)

Internet ----- Broadband modem ---- WinXP "Bad"

Internet ----- Broadband modem ----- Router ---- PC#1 "Better" Win7+, and an AV
---- PC#2
---- PC#3
---- PC#4

If my ISP was filtering off "Sasser packets", maybe I would not get Sasser on WinXP.
A typical situation, would be we connected the PC, with no OS, inserted the WinXP CD, and started the OS install. When the OS is finally installed,
as it boots up, it tips over when the Sasser packet hits it. What we learn from this, is to install some number of patches *before* connecting the network.
If you have a WsusOffline USB stick, that's how you patch up the OS manually.
I have a WinXP one and a Win7 one. You "build" your USB stick, using a
second PC which is operational and heavily armed. It collects the patches
from the server, and you apply them later. WsusOffline has install scripts
that cause 150 patches to be applied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasser_%28computer_worm%29

Paul

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On 6/4/2024 1:04 AM, david wrote:

Using <news:v3f608$2plhb$1@dont-email.me>, John C. wrote:

IoT. Isn't that an acronym for "Internet of Things", as in
refrigerators, doorbells, TVs, etc.?

Paul knows what IoT means in terms of abbreviations.
He was asking what Microsoft means by it.

Which usually means there's a catch.

Which is why Paul mentioned the Enterprise catches.
Marketing is clever. Paul is more clever.

The IoT buzzword, used by Microsoft, probably means something that none of
us would think it means - as it means whatever Microsoft marketing wanted
it to mean. And that's the question Paul asked.

What does IoT mean, to Microsoft?

It's for operating equipment. Like a dedicated IoT hardware device.

Originally, the graphics on the HDMI connector were "static". It
could have details about what hardware it was, what OS version
was running and so on. Maybe an icon identifying the manufacturer.
This would just be a JPEG being sent continuously over HDMI. The idea
is, IoT devices ("motes") don't have screens.

An example might be the price-checker tablet at Walmart. At one time,
it used to display "network not available". One day, it showed it was
doing some sort of update and got stuck. That's a kiosk or appliance
situation. Today, it actually works. Only took two or three years
to work out the kinks. Now it scans a price, and prints out the dollar
amount on the screen. It no longer entertains by complaining
about network connections (even though it is using a network connection
for the lookup). Some Windows product is inside it now, but there
is no external indication what might be running it.

The available video for the Enterprise IoT, shows it has graphics now.
It is termed an "image". This means it could be using a .wim file
with the OS in it, it could have an overlay filesystem (if changes
to the fixed image are expected). It's not exactly like an
ordinary desktop OS. Subsystems could be missing. Maybe there is
no provision for backup software to run (since you bring the image
over from some other computer to use it, and you would be backing
up the image on that other computer).

This is hardly a tool for lazy users. It's a nerd project.

Now the thing "T" was referring to in the Win11 group, that's a practical example
of a stripped down OS. But, it has normal support intervals,
as far as Windows Update is concerned.

(HowardKnight seems to be broken) <v3ludl$3vr3i$7@dont-email.me> Mon, 3 Jun 2024 19:33:25 -0700

Paul

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Paul wrote:

(HowardKnight seems to be broken)<v3ludl$3vr3i$7@dont-email.me> Mon, 3 Jun 2024 19:33:25 -0700

Not broken, just extremely slow looking up by msgid, faster to retrieve
once bookmarked

<http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=171748342400>

Maybe it's suffering since googlegroups spat their dummy?

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On 6/4/2024 2:45 AM, Andy Burns wrote:

Paul wrote:

(HowardKnight seems to be broken)<v3ludl$3vr3i$7@dont-email.me>    Mon, 3 Jun 2024 19:33:25 -0700

Not broken, just extremely slow looking up by msgid, faster to retrieve once bookmarked

<http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=171748342400>

Maybe it's suffering since googlegroups spat their dummy?

Yes, it's working now. That is what I was thinking too, that it was
broken for good, because sooner or later, the assist howardknight
gets from Google is going to break.

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cv3ludl%243vr3i%247%40dont-email.me%3E

https://archive.org/download/tiny11-2311

Even archive.org may not exist forever, as it does now.
It's apparently going to get its day in court (books? and music?).
Lawyers gotta eat (I guess).

Once you go down the tiny11 road, you'll stay on that road.
You'll need to use incontrol, so no Upgrade attempts happen
while you're not looking. It will become your own private stream
in a sense. Just as using Rufus.ie to remove the TPM requirement,
takes you down your own, Rufus-only, road.

And if the archive.org folder disappears, there will be a
torrent.

But you're always an install away from something. It's a short
trip and a long journey.

Paul

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On Fri, 31 May 2024 20:59:00 +0000, Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> wrote:

Windows 11 24H2 for old computers is coming near you from Microsoft. All
the requirements have become optional. For both LTSC and Non-LTSC. Read
all about it here:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11LTSC>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/System_Requirements?tabs=Windows11>

The release date is October (tentative).

Well, other than proving that 11 will run without the stupid
requirements, this is for embedded systems (IoT). So you're going to get
a crappy experience on that "old computer."

Best to just use Rufus. It works. I wonder if it will work with 12 too?

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

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On 6/4/2024 1:04 AM, david wrote:

Using <news:v3je9o$3oj8m$1@paganini.bofh.team>, Jack wrote:

People already using the free version retains the digital license on that device but re-installation on another machine requires a new license. Even Retail licenses of Windows 10 don't get free upgrade to Windows 11 because this was a limited

Microsoft give-away. Not any more.

Can you clarify that, since we've enjoyed the free upgrade for years.

My wife's laptop came with Windows S, which I converted easily to Windows
10 Home which she upgraded (by mistake) to Windows 11 Home, and it works.

My (much older) desktop came with Windows "something" (as I don't remember) which was eventually upgraded to Windows 10 Pro which is what it has now.

Can I upgrade my Windows 10 Pro desktop to Windows 11 with this software
even as Windows 11 requirements, up until now, were too stringent to do it?

The IoT has various processor requirements.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/Hardware/processor_requirements

The consumer W10 to W11, still appears to be ready to go.

https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/upgrade-to-windows-11-or-take-the-risk-microsoft-warns-about-windows-10s-end-of-life-date-once-again

You could back up your storage in the device in question, attempt to install W11,
restore from backup if you don't like it. When 24H2 comes out, the machine could
face some additional dilemma.

If you use Rufus.ie to prepare an installer stick, and run Setup.exe off it, that
may advance you to Windows 11 without some of the requirements. But then, you'd be
using Rufus.ie converter for every subsequent W11 Upgrade. Today, you would make
a Rufus W11 23H2 stick, and run Setup.exe off it while Windows 10 is running. When W11 24H2 comes out, you'd make a Rufus w11 24H2 stick (and assuming the hack still works in it), run Setup.exe off it while W11 23H2 is running. if it rolls back, you're off to Linux :-)

You can use this to lock the version, until your Rufus stick is ready with
the next version. Running setup.exe off the stick while the previous OS version is running, allows a Repair/Upgrade install to be done, preserving user data and installed programs.

https://www.grc.com/incontrol.htm

This is why every path is "a short trip and a long journey". Once you cast your lot on the sea, you have to deal with the consequences, one way or another. The graphics
on W11 don't look quite the same.

/ Place bet on your pony ----- Kaboom!
/
|/
---- W10 ----|------ Place bet on your pony ----- Kaboom!
|\
\
\ Place bet on your pony ----- Kaboom!

One of the reasons for Microsoft to be injecting "drop dead" HW requirements
at this time, is to make nice clean "Kaboom!" sounds at the appropriate moment. We can't have customers half-limping around the playing field, holding a Rufus.ie stick with a bloody stump. Then you'll install Google ChromeOS and
do your social networking from there (as apparently, high power desktop PCs
are for social networking). The ChromeOS uses a Google Account to access
their store or whatever. When I installed my Neverware version, I used
a Google email address for the account. It lasted for about two days, before
it went back into the sea. Google now makes their own ChromeOS installer stick.

Meanwhile, the geniuses at Intel are busy making processors with stacked
DRAM right inside the CPU (for a laptop), meaning if you're not careful, you'll receive
a "gimped item", that when Microsoft demands a higher minimum RAM for
some purpose, you won't be able to comply. And I thought Gelsinger was clever. More dumpster-ware. Just what we need. Here, take this 1Ghz quad core tablet I bought
and immediately threw in the dumpster. Dumpster days are here again.

Who knows, maybe it is a scheme, to put everyone on iPhones...
The story is just... so... loopy.

Old unusable PCs, are going to be sitting on the roof of Philo's house :-)

Paul

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On 6/3/24 20:50, ...winston wrote:

Linux    1.4% (all distros)

oops. Except for Ubooboo, the rest of
the distros can not be tracked. I would
posit that Linux Desktop is around 4%
and growing.

And since Android is Linux, if you include
that, Linux is the major operating system with
the majority of market share.

When folk get a load of W11 becoming major spyware
(coPilot/Recall), interest in Linux will increase.
I already had had some customer ask about it.

Now if we could only get a QuickBooks port to Linux.

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On 6/3/24 22:04, david wrote:

Using <news:v3e18s$2jmiu$1@dont-email.me>, ...winston wrote:

For this group's users 24H2 on old computers has little benefit or
value..i.e. an absurd pretense of something perceived to be useful.

I have a circa 2010 desktop which is going strong on Windows 10, but the
one thing Windows 11 will provide to it would be the bugfix support.

It can dual boot to Centos or Ubuntu (both of which I'm familiar with); but
I am invested in a ton of software already that I'd have to find
replacements for which is more work than I feel like doing.

Difficult replacements are

Quickbooks
UPS World Ship
Fedex Ship
Family Tree Maker.

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On 6/4/24 13:27, Paul wrote:

If you use Rufus.ie to prepare an installer stick, and run Setup.exe off it, that
may advance you to Windows 11 without some of the requirements

I have been wondering about that and Tiny 11. Would
M$ trash it with an upgrade?

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On 6/5/2024 3:10 AM, T wrote:

On 6/3/24 20:50, ...winston wrote:

Linux    1.4% (all distros)

oops.  Except for Ubooboo, the rest of
the distros can not be tracked.  I would
posit that Linux Desktop is around 4%
and growing.

And since Android is Linux, if you include
that, Linux is the major operating system with
the majority of market share.

When folk get a load of W11 becoming major spyware
(coPilot/Recall), interest in Linux will increase.
I already had had some customer ask about it.

Now if we could only get a QuickBooks port to Linux.

Ars had an article today on Recall.

https://arstechnica.com/ai/2024/06/windows-recall-demands-an-extraordinary-level-of-trust-that-microsoft-hasnt-earned/

Comes as a screen capture and an sqlite database of OCR'ed text.

Paul

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On 6/5/2024 3:12 AM, T wrote:

On 6/4/24 13:27, Paul wrote:

If you use Rufus.ie to prepare an installer stick, and run Setup.exe off it, that
may advance you to Windows 11 without some of the requirements

I have been wondering about that and Tiny 11.  Would
M$ trash it with an upgrade?

I suspect a roll-back would be a likely outcome.

The concern would be mainly the time wasted, waiting for your PC to recover.

I don't know where I was reading, but someone today was describing
a problem on their "Win10" PC, and they said their release number
was 22621 :-) "Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas any more."
Upgrades happen, apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_11_version_history

Who said we don't already have self-driving stuff.

Paul

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In alt.comp.os.windows-10 T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 6/3/24 22:04, david wrote:

Using <news:v3e18s$2jmiu$1@dont-email.me>, ...winston wrote:

For this group's users 24H2 on old computers has little benefit or
value..i.e. an absurd pretense of something perceived to be useful.

I have a circa 2010 desktop which is going strong on Windows 10, but the one thing Windows 11 will provide to it would be the bugfix support.

It can dual boot to Centos or Ubuntu (both of which I'm familiar with); but I am invested in a ton of software already that I'd have to find replacements for which is more work than I feel like doing.

Difficult replacements are

Quickbooks
UPS World Ship
Fedex Ship
Family Tree Maker.

Why not use them in virtual machines (VMs) like Windows Sandbox, VMware Workstation, VirtualBox, etc. in your Windows host?
--
"If we have been united with [Christ] like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection." --Romans 6:5. Acolyte premiere was OK. Quiet again.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

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Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 6/5/2024 3:10 AM, T wrote:

On 6/3/24 20:50, ...winston wrote:

Linux��� 1.4% (all distros)

oops.� Except for Ubooboo, the rest of
the distros can not be tracked.� I would
posit that Linux Desktop is around 4%
and growing.

And since Android is Linux, if you include
that, Linux is the major operating system with
the majority of market share.

When folk get a load of W11 becoming major spyware
(coPilot/Recall), interest in Linux will increase.
I already had had some customer ask about it.

Now if we could only get a QuickBooks port to Linux.

Ars had an article today on Recall.

https://arstechnica.com/ai/2024/06/windows-recall-demands-an-extraordinary-level-of-trust-that-microsoft-hasnt-earned/

Comes as a screen capture and an sqlite database of OCR'ed text.

Since the article mentions enabling Recall, there must be a way to
disable it. Or maybe disable CoPilot eliminates Recall, too.

After I do a fresh install of Windows, and get the updates, it takes
several days to do all the tweaks to disable the crap I don't want and
the crap I'll never need. Well, that and the time to research what crap
is in Windows that I want gone. I remember in Win10 where Cortana was
probably the first "feature" I disabled.

I don't use computers to have them handhold me in using them. If I
don't know how to use something, that's what Dummies books are for, and
web articles, and gaining experience through error.

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winston <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:

Market Share
Windows 29.7%
Linux 1.4% (all distros)
MacOs 5.6% (all 6 Mac OsX versions)

Other choices, though, are available with higher usage than Linuz or MacOsX
- Android 43.9%
- iOs 17.9% (all 7 iOS versions - Tablet and Mobile)

Is Android so vastly different from the Linux distro set that Android
which is based on Linux is not considered a Linux platform? Seems
Android is Linux with other open-source software. Well, every Linux
distro is different than another; else, they'd be the same distro. I
realize every phone maker customizes their implementation of Android to
brand it to their phones, and AOSP (Android Open Source Project) doesn't include the proprietary drivers needed for the device, but I don't think
that makes Android not Linux.

Once you aggregate all Linux distros, including Android, Linux (45.3%)
beats Windows (20.7%). I've always viewed Android as just another but differently named distro of Linux.

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On 6/5/2024 2:39 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 6/5/2024 3:10 AM, T wrote:

On 6/3/24 20:50, ...winston wrote:

Linux    1.4% (all distros)

oops.  Except for Ubooboo, the rest of
the distros can not be tracked.  I would
posit that Linux Desktop is around 4%
and growing.

And since Android is Linux, if you include
that, Linux is the major operating system with
the majority of market share.

When folk get a load of W11 becoming major spyware
(coPilot/Recall), interest in Linux will increase.
I already had had some customer ask about it.

Now if we could only get a QuickBooks port to Linux.

Ars had an article today on Recall.

https://arstechnica.com/ai/2024/06/windows-recall-demands-an-extraordinary-level-of-trust-that-microsoft-hasnt-earned/

Comes as a screen capture and an sqlite database of OCR'ed text.

Since the article mentions enabling Recall, there must be a way to
disable it. Or maybe disable CoPilot eliminates Recall, too.

After I do a fresh install of Windows, and get the updates, it takes
several days to do all the tweaks to disable the crap I don't want and
the crap I'll never need. Well, that and the time to research what crap
is in Windows that I want gone. I remember in Win10 where Cortana was probably the first "feature" I disabled.

I don't use computers to have them handhold me in using them. If I
don't know how to use something, that's what Dummies books are for, and
web articles, and gaining experience through error.

At the current time, the ingredients don't exist for general deployment,
but it lurks in the shadows.

A similar thing, was providing BitLocker capability. It sat in the corner
and behaved itself. Initially, we thought we knew that no disk could
be encrypted by accident, because it would take an effort to do that.

Then some OEM machines arrived that may have been running Windows Home,
and they had Full Disk Encryption (hardware supported) enabled. The
key for recovery was stored in a Microsoft account. But, nobody told
the user this. It was just done behind their back. If they closed their Microsoft account (the say certain people do), where would the
recovery key be then ?

The ARM Surface with NPU, could arrive with the ingredients on it for "Recall". There is a claim "it would have to be enabled" (like BitLocker required Opt-In). But based on Microsofts "trust quotient", we have no guarantee
any policy lasts longer than a week. I don't see a reason an OEM computer could not arrive with some feature like this turned on.

It's just an unnecessary attack surface, for all and sundry.

*******

OK, go to Pictures\Screenshots on your C: drive.

How many image files are there ?

Did you know they were there ?

This is a location I have to keep cleaning out.
The SnippingTool keeps putting them there, but I use Save As
and have another location I use for their storage. It's a location
I can reach from other PCs. My Test Machine, if I use SnippingTool
there, the Save there picks the file share on this machine as
the destination. And my consolidated storage of screenshots as a result,
is not in Pictures\Screenshots.

That's an example of another function I did not ask for -- the
saving of SnippingTool pictures in two places, when I wanted
them put only in *one* specific place. But this is "designer-knows-best"
in action. If the source was available, we could remove the storage
option we did not want.

What good are features that only require additional write-ups to warn
people about them ? Nobody is stupid enough, to need a "Recall" feature.
I can't think of a scenario where random screenshots would help me
in any way. And OCR processing them, is only for Microsofts benefit,
as a scraping exercise.

At one time, computers had "accounting". Even Windows is likely to
have had this as an option at one time. It would record the runtime
of a program, and make a notation in a log of the activity. In the
same way as the mainframe at university, used to log accounting info
for external users of the mainframe (they sold computer time to outsiders). Now, we should ask around "how many of you have accounting logging turned on?". I think I know what the answer is. Zero.

The Windows machines have Location determination running. It arrived
when "News and Interests" arrived (an interest in knowing your location
with high accuracy). Turning off "News and Interests",
does not actually stop what is going on under the hood. And the Privacy settings do not absolutely turn off location determination either. That
was only for "third party Apps". But, you can always trust Microsoft
to do the right thing. Right? That's why there is no control, and no
way of knowing whether something on your machine has hacked that.

Paul

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Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> writes:

------<snip>---------

A similar thing, was providing BitLocker capability. It sat in the corner
and behaved itself. Initially, we thought we knew that no disk could
be encrypted by accident, because it would take an effort to do that.

Then some OEM machines arrived that may have been running Windows Home,
and they had Full Disk Encryption (hardware supported) enabled. The
key for recovery was stored in a Microsoft account. But, nobody told
the user this. It was just done behind their back. If they closed their Microsoft account (the say certain people do), where would the
recovery key be then ?

------<snip>---------

This is exactly what happened to me. I ordered a Dell XPS 13 with
Windows 11 Home. When it arrived, the SSD drive was encrypted with Bitlocker, but if there was any mention of this in the accompanying literature, I completely missed it. I proceeded to install Fedora as a dual boot on
the machine, which involved changing the partitioning to make room for
Linux. When I attempted to boot the machine back into Windows, Bitlocker
said something about the configuration being changed and wanted my
encryption key, which I had no knowledge of. After some panicked online searching I found that the key was stored in the Microsoft account I
used when activating Windows 11.

I had not asked for Bitlocker, and there was no mention in the ordering
process that the machine would come with it turned on. It is now turned
off, and I can happily dual-boot W11 and Fedora.

- Don-

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On 6/5/2024 3:08 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

winston <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:

Market Share
Windows 29.7%
Linux 1.4% (all distros)
MacOs 5.6% (all 6 Mac OsX versions)

Other choices, though, are available with higher usage than Linuz or MacOsX >> - Android 43.9%
- iOs 17.9% (all 7 iOS versions - Tablet and Mobile)

Is Android so vastly different from the Linux distro set that Android
which is based on Linux is not considered a Linux platform? Seems
Android is Linux with other open-source software. Well, every Linux
distro is different than another; else, they'd be the same distro. I
realize every phone maker customizes their implementation of Android to
brand it to their phones, and AOSP (Android Open Source Project) doesn't include the proprietary drivers needed for the device, but I don't think
that makes Android not Linux.

Once you aggregate all Linux distros, including Android, Linux (45.3%)
beats Windows (20.7%). I've always viewed Android as just another but differently named distro of Linux.

We would probably need to see a stacked diagram of the layers in Android
and compare them to a Linux diagram, to see what degree of match there is.

This article repeats itself a bit too much,

https://www.scaler.com/topics/is-android-linux-based/

but the only thing that stood out, was the Android Run Time is different
than the ELF that Linux uses. Linux can be re-compiled for different hardware platforms,
and an ARM version is no problem (but the executable is likely an ELF).
I used to run the PowerPC version (LiveDVD) for doing maintenance on my Mac G4. It's possible there was a Linux for a mainframe.

There are lots of diagrams missing, for computer topics now. I found two diagrams for Wayland (the sort-of replacement for X11), and the simpler
diagram does not do the topic justice. Unless we can count on someone
to draw those diagrams, and do a good job, we'll end up with articles
like that scaler.com example.

I'm still looking for a virtualization and rings diagram for Windows 11.
Like, I was embarrassed the other day, in my ignorance on the topic of
WSL1 versus WSL2. I thought both of them used containers for their files.
When in fact, WSL1 was more of a sandbox-like environment (raw files
in the C: drive in a tree), whereas WSL2 has a .vhdx container and
there is also supposed to be a Linux kernel running. It's easy to imagine
this is just a virtual machine with Terminal Services in the graphics
stack, but it sure would be nice to see this in a diagram. It almost
suggests you could run a WSL1 instance and a WSL2 instance at the same time.

Paul

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On Wed, 5 Jun 2024 17:13:34 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

A similar thing, was providing BitLocker capability. It sat in the corner
and behaved itself. Initially, we thought we knew that no disk could
be encrypted by accident, because it would take an effort to do that.

Then some OEM machines arrived that may have been running Windows Home,
and they had Full Disk Encryption (hardware supported) enabled. The
key for recovery was stored in a Microsoft account. But, nobody told
the user this. It was just done behind their back. If they closed their >Microsoft account (the say certain people do), where would the
recovery key be then ?

There are some interesting Youtube videos that suggest that, under perhaps limited circumstances, a lost Bitlocker key is little more than an annoyance. One guy explains that if a system has a physical TPM chip, you may be in luck because what the TPM does internally as it hashes the PC's configuration is encrypted, but if everything computes properly, the Bitlocker decryption key is sent from the TPM to the CPU *in the clear*. Since the bus that connects the TPM
to the CPU carries unencrypted data, this guy just stuck a probe on that bus and
in less than a minute, (43 secs), he had the Bitlocker key. There's a little more to it than that, but not much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTl4vEednkQ

The article that led me to that YT video <https://www.techradar.com/pro/security/bad-news-for-bitlocker-users-its-encryption-can-be-cracked-remarkable-easily>

Systems with fTPM don't use that same bus, so this approach won't work there, but there are different methods to acquire the Bitlocker key in those situations.

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