As for the scanner, if I can't find a way to make it work again, then
that's it for Windows 10. I won't tolerate this kind of bullshit.
As for the scanner, if I can't find a way to make it work again, then
that's it for Windows 10. I won't tolerate this kind of bullshit.
I have been attempting to get used to Windows 10, but now it had
developed a problem that, if it ever happens again, will force me to
either go back to Windows 7 *OR* finally make the move to Linux.
What is happening is that I'm seeing programs which I was able to use
without issue in Windows 7 and which I have installed in Windows 10
suddenly, and completely, disappear.
Here's an example:
I installed WizMouse (https://antibody-software.com/wizmouse) and
configured it to work as it usually does. The program "allows you to
scroll the window under the mouse with your mouse wheel even if the that window doesn't have input focus.
Windows 10 already has this functionality built in so WizMouse is most
useful if you're using earlier versions of Windows (Windows 2000, XP,
Vista, 7, 8)."
Yesterday, I noticed that the program completely disappeared. In other
words, it was uninstalled without me doing anything.
However, perhaps the most frustrating thing is that I was able to
install the drivers for my beloved Canon Canoscan 8400F scanner and it
was working perfectly. In fact, it was working better than it ever has before. The drivers were for Windows 7, but they installed in Windows 10 without any issues and the scanner has been working for a couple of
weeks now.
Then this morning, when I attempted to use the scanner, the twain driver
was no longer available in Adobe Photoshop Elements or any other
graphics editing program I have installed, all of which used to list the twain driver. The scanner is still listed in the Device Manager and it
says "This device is working properly."
I noticed that there was a new system notification, so I checked it out
and it said something to the effect that "Finish installing software for
a device." When I attempted to get more information about the
notification, it simply disappeared!
when I go into the Device Manager with the scanner turned on,
right-click on the listing, select "Properties" and click on the
"Events" tab, I see the following "events" listed: __________________________________________________________________________ Events
Timestamp Description
2024-03-25 8:46:23 PM Device con?gured (null)
evice USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2c2ab93d&0&5 was configured.
Driver Name: null
Class Guid: {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
Driver Date:
Driver Version:
Driver Provider:
Driver Section:
Driver Rank: 0x0
Matching Device Id:
Outranked Drivers:
Device Updated: false
Parent Device: USB\ROOT_HUB20\4&33ca6639&0
2024-04-10 7:48:47 AM Device deleted
Device USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2C2AB93D&0&5 was deleted.
Class Guid: {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
2024-04-10 7:55:03 AM Device install requested
Device USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2c2ab93d&0&5 requires further installation.
2024-04-10 7:55:04 AM Driver sen/ice added (usbscan)
Driver Management has concluded the process to add Service usbscan for
Device Instance ID USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2C2AB93D&0&5 with the
following status: 0. __________________________________________________________________________
I *KNOW* that the drivers I installed will work with Windows 10 because
they were doing so. To me, it simply appears that the OS deliberately
fucked things up so that they wouldn't work. I have read various places
on the internet that other people who owned the same model scanner were
able to make it work when W10 first came out, but that after one of the
W10 updates it suddenly quit working.
This smacks of collusion between Microsoft and Canon in order to get
people to purchase new scanners from Canon.
As for software randomly disappearing from Windows 10 without any
notice, I am far from the only person to see this kind of thing happening:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=windows+10+programs+get+randomly+uninstalled&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=lang_en&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&as_filetype=&tbs=
Especially this discussion:
https://www.tenforums.com/software-apps/201227-windows-deletes-software-automatically.html
Has anybody else experienced this problem (programs being uninstalled
without permission) and if so, have any of you found a solution or at
least a reason why it's happening? This is completely unacceptable.
As for the scanner, if I can't find a way to make it work again, then
that's it for Windows 10. I won't tolerate this kind of bullshit.
How do you *know* the program was "removed" (uninstalled)? Was it
listed in Control Panel (-> Programs -> Programs and Features) and is it
no longer listed there?
That the program does not work anymore, doesn't mean is was removed.
Has anybody else experienced this problem (programs being uninstalled
without permission)
I installed WizMouse (https://antibody-software.com/wizmouse) and
configured it to work as it usually does. The program "allows you to
scroll the window under the mouse with your mouse wheel even if the
that window doesn't have input focus. Windows 10 already has this functionality built in so WizMouse is most useful if you're using
earlier versions of Windows (Windows 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8).
Yesterday, I noticed that the program completely disappeared. In other
words, it was uninstalled without me doing anything.
However, perhaps the most frustrating thing is that I was able to
install the drivers for my beloved Canon Canoscan 8400F scanner and
it was working perfectly. In fact, it was working better than it ever
has before. The drivers were for Windows 7, but they installed in
Windows 10 without any issues and the scanner has been working for a
couple of weeks now.
Then this morning, when I attempted to use the scanner, the twain
driver was no longer available in Adobe Photoshop Elements or any
other graphics editing program I have installed, all of which used to
list the twain driver. The scanner is still listed in the Device
Manager and it says "This device is working properly."
__________________________________________________________________________ Events
Timestamp Description
2024-03-25 8:46:23 PM Device configured (null)
evice USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2c2ab93d&0&5 was configured.
Driver Name: null
Class Guid: {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
Driver Date:
Driver Version:
Driver Provider:
Driver Section:
Driver Rank: 0x0
Matching Device Id:
Outranked Drivers:
Device Updated: false
Parent Device: USB\ROOT_HUB20\4&33ca6639&0
2024-04-10 7:48:47 AM Device deleted
Device USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2C2AB93D&0&5 was deleted.
Class Guid: {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
2024-04-10 7:55:03 AM Device install requested
Device USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2c2ab93d&0&5 requires further installation.
2024-04-10 7:55:04 AM Driver sen/ice added (usbscan)
Driver Management has concluded the process to add Service usbscan for
Device Instance ID USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2C2AB93D&0&5 with the
following status: 0. __________________________________________________________________________
April 10 is the Wednesday after the last 'patch Tuesday' (second
Tuesday of the month), so it looks that Windows Update downloaded and installed new drivers which it thought (FSVSVO 'think') were newer/
better than the 'old'/installed ones.
For Windows 10 (I mainly use Windows 11) there's still a setting which
you can set to prevent this from happening (again). (For Windows 11 it's
less easy, but still possible (with third-party software).)
I don't have the Windows 10 setting handy, but others/Paul can point
you to it.
Frank Slootweg wrote:
How do you *know* the program was "removed" (uninstalled)? Was it
listed in Control Panel (-> Programs -> Programs and Features) and
is it no longer listed there?
That the program does not work anymore, doesn't mean is was removed.
Another possibility: Windows Security (formerly Windows Defender) or
the Malicious Software Removal Tool might have decided those programs
were dangerous and quarantined them.
To check that in Windows Security, open Settings; select
Update & Security
Windows Security
Virus & Threat Protection
Protection History
If there are any "This app has been blocked" notations, click on each
one in turn.
The MSRT runs as a Windows update, and I don't know how to check its
logs.
This smacks of collusion between Microsoft and Canon in order to get
people to purchase new scanners from Canon.
Some comment about stupidity versus malice?
I installed WizMouse (https://antibody-software.com/wizmouse) and
configured it to work as it usually does. The program "allows you to
scroll the window under the mouse with your mouse wheel even if the that >window doesn't have input focus.
Windows 10 already has this functionality built in so WizMouse is most
useful if you're using earlier versions of Windows (Windows 2000, XP,
Vista, 7, 8)."
Yesterday, I noticed that the program completely disappeared. In other
words, it was uninstalled without me doing anything.
John C. wrote:
As for the scanner, if I can't find a way to make it work again, then
that's it for Windows 10. I won't tolerate this kind of bullshit.
It's a long time since I had to install a TWAIN driver for a scanner,
though I see if I look at the import options for PaintShop Pro it
lists the TWAIN drivers that it can use. What printer is it?
Does it have an app
for running the scanner? Usually, in my experience,
installing the scanner app
installs the drivers. If you have one, try
reinstalling the scanner app. Sounds an odd scenario that you
describe.
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
How do you *know* the program was "removed" (uninstalled)? Was it
listed in Control Panel (-> Programs -> Programs and Features) and
is it no longer listed there?
That the program does not work anymore, doesn't mean is was removed.
Another possibility: Windows Security (formerly Windows Defender) or
the Malicious Software Removal Tool might have decided those programs
were dangerous and quarantined them.
To check that in Windows Security, open Settings; select
Update & Security »
Windows Security »
Virus & Threat Protection »
Protection History
If there are any "This app has been blocked" notations, click on each
one in turn.
The MSRT runs as a Windows update, and I don't know how to check its
logs.
I downloaded the portable version of WizMouse (so I could see the files instead of the installer executable). I submitted wizmouse.exe and wizmouse.dll to VirusTotal. The .exe had a couple hits on obscure AVs,
but those are insignificant. The .dll had no hits. I don't think
Defender saw wizmouse as malware, but only looking it its logs might
show it decided it was a PUP (Probably Unwanted Program) or PUA
(Potentially Unwanted Application).
Not sure why the OP still wants to use WizMouse under Windows 10 where
the program seems superfluous. WizMouse isn't even listed at the
author's home page (https://antibody-software.com/). The .exe and .dll haven't been updated since Sept 2013. It's ancient. It's long dead.
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 25 Apr 2024 14:30:57 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
This smacks of collusion between Microsoft and Canon in order to get
people to purchase new scanners from Canon.
Some comment about stupidity versus malice?
Not even stupidity. It's awfully hard to test updates with every device
out there to make sure it's still compatible. That's why Apple doesn't
let every Tom, Dick and Harry write software, etc for their products,
but it's also why there are far fewer programs to run.
Earlier today, I wrote:
[...]
April 10 is the Wednesday after the last 'patch Tuesday' (second
Tuesday of the month), so it looks that Windows Update downloaded and
installed new drivers which it thought (FSVSVO 'think') were newer/
better than the 'old'/installed ones.
For Windows 10 (I mainly use Windows 11) there's still a setting which
you can set to prevent this from happening (again). (For Windows 11 it's
less easy, but still possible (with third-party software).)
I don't have the Windows 10 setting handy, but others/Paul can point
you to it.
I checked my notes and found my notes on how to stop automatic driver updates.
It's apparently the same setting for Windows 10 and 11. Credits go to
Paul [1] for mentioning the basic method (method 1. in the article) and
for pointing to the MakeUseOf article:
'How to Stop Automatic Driver Updates on Windows' <https://www.makeuseof.com/windows-stop-automatic-driver-updates>
FWIW, I checked with method 3. (Registry Editor) on my Windows 11
system and the SearchOrderConfig key is indeed set to the default value
1 (Automatic Driver Updates are enabled).
Hope this helps.
[...]
[1] Paul's post:
From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Windows 10 updating drivers
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 18:09:02 -0500
Message-ID: <tod9if$3dbha$1@dont-email.me>
In message <v0dcu6$2v9ts$1@dont-email.me>, John C. <r9jmg0@yahoo.com>
writes
<big snip>
Has anybody else experienced this problem (programs being uninstalled
without permission)
I've been using 10 for about five years and, to the best of my
knowledge, have never had that happen. Could your anti-virus have
quarantined the program as suspicious without your being aware of it? It might be worth checking.
John C. <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:
I installed WizMouse (https://antibody-software.com/wizmouse) and
configured it to work as it usually does. The program "allows you to
scroll the window under the mouse with your mouse wheel even if the
that window doesn't have input focus. Windows 10 already has this
functionality built in so WizMouse is most useful if you're using
earlier versions of Windows (Windows 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8).
Yesterday, I noticed that the program completely disappeared. In other
words, it was uninstalled without me doing anything.
Did you check the install folder to see if it still existed, and, if so,
if the program's files are still there?
However, perhaps the most frustrating thing is that I was able to
install the drivers for my beloved Canon Canoscan 8400F scanner and
it was working perfectly. In fact, it was working better than it ever
has before. The drivers were for Windows 7, but they installed in
Windows 10 without any issues and the scanner has been working for a
couple of weeks now.
Then this morning, when I attempted to use the scanner, the twain
driver was no longer available in Adobe Photoshop Elements or any
other graphics editing program I have installed, all of which used to
list the twain driver. The scanner is still listed in the Device
Manager and it says "This device is working properly."
__________________________________________________________________________ >> Events
Timestamp Description
2024-03-25 8:46:23 PM Device configured (null)
evice USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2c2ab93d&0&5 was configured.
Driver Name: null
Class Guid: {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
Driver Date:
Driver Version:
Driver Provider:
Driver Section:
Driver Rank: 0x0
Matching Device Id:
Outranked Drivers:
Device Updated: false
Parent Device: USB\ROOT_HUB20\4&33ca6639&0
2024-04-10 7:48:47 AM Device deleted
Device USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2C2AB93D&0&5 was deleted.
Class Guid: {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
2024-04-10 7:55:03 AM Device install requested
Device USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2c2ab93d&0&5 requires further installation. >>
2024-04-10 7:55:04 AM Driver sen/ice added (usbscan)
Driver Management has concluded the process to add Service usbscan for
Device Instance ID USB\VID_04A9&PID_221E\5&2C2AB93D&0&5 with the
following status: 0.
__________________________________________________________________________
Since the scanner is still listed in Device Manager, that device was NOT uninstalled. Didn't the scanner come bundled with some software either
with the scanner, or you were given a URL of where to download it?
Not many drivers are dynamic (can be loaded after Windows has loaded,
and loaded by the user). Many require they load while Windows is
loading. That means you have to reboot when you install a new driver.
Did you yet restart Windows?
Also, do NOT let Microsoft update drivers. It does an unreliable job.
A device in a family line all under the same model number may have
different versions, and that versioning could be due to changes in
hardware, and you need to get the driver that matches on the hardware.
The same model number doesn't mean the same hardware. However,
Microsoft can only detect the product and model, not when version
numbering reflects a major change in the hardware. So, the WU client
picks a driver for a model, but for the wrong version of the hardware.
*YOU* should be the only one doing driver updates.
John C. wrote:
I installed WizMouse (https://antibody-software.com/wizmouse) and
configured it to work as it usually does. The program "allows you to
scroll the window under the mouse with your mouse wheel even if the that
window doesn't have input focus.
Windows 10 already has this functionality built in so WizMouse is most
useful if you're using earlier versions of Windows (Windows 2000, XP,
Vista, 7, 8)."
Yesterday, I noticed that the program completely disappeared. In other
words, it was uninstalled without me doing anything.
Why not just install it again? I see two possibilities. It only got uninstalled because something related got installed on the 2nd Tuesday update, OR a check is made every 2nd Tuesday and it will get uninstalled
in a month , every month. I think it's the first and you won't have
more problems for years, but I'm guessing. Others here might know how
that actually works.
micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 25 Apr 2024 14:30:57 GMT, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
This smacks of collusion between Microsoft and Canon in order to get
people to purchase new scanners from Canon.
Some comment about stupidity versus malice?
Not even stupidity. It's awfully hard to test updates with every device
out there to make sure it's still compatible. That's why Apple doesn't
let every Tom, Dick and Harry write software, etc for their products,
but it's also why there are far fewer programs to run.
The scanner not only worked for me for a while in Windows 10, but many
other Canoscan 8400F users experienced the same thing for a few years
before a Microsoft updated rendered their scanners non-functional as well.
Am I supposed to be happy about this kind of thing? My scanner still
works physically and if I were to set up one of my older computers
(something I don't have the room for in my house), I could easily attach
the scanner to it and prove that it works.
Would YOU be happy about being forced to purchase a new scanner? The
only scanners being made these days that combine negative and slide
scanning capability are very, very expensive. >80(>
I'm not running my scanner from a "smart" phone, I'm running it from my desktop computer. The software it uses is referred to correctly as an "application".
John Hall wrote:
John C. <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> WROTE:
Has anybody else experienced this problem (programs being uninstalled
without permission)
I've been using 10 for about five years and, to the best of my
knowledge, have never had that happen. Could your anti-virus have
quarantined the program as suspicious without your being aware of it? It
might be worth checking.
That was about the first thing I checked. Nope, the program just
disappeared.
VanguardLH wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
How do you *know* the program was "removed" (uninstalled)? Was it
listed in Control Panel (-> Programs -> Programs and Features) and
is it no longer listed there?
I know because I just installed the program. It runs in the background
with an icon on the Tray. I noticed when I started up the system a
couple of days ago that the icon was missing. When I tried to find the program in my Start Menu, it wasn't there. When I looked in "Programs
and Features", it was no longer listed as an installed program.
I did NOT uninstall the program myself. Period.
Another possibility: Windows Security (formerly Windows Defender) or
the Malicious Software Removal Tool might have decided those programs
were dangerous and quarantined them.
There was no notification and not mention of it being uninstalled that
I was able to find anywhere.
To check that in Windows Security, open Settings; select
Update & Security
Windows Security
Virus & Threat Protection
Protection History
If there are any "This app has been blocked" notations, click on each
one in turn.
I downloaded the portable version of WizMouse (so I could see the files
instead of the installer executable). I submitted wizmouse.exe and
wizmouse.dll to VirusTotal. The .exe had a couple hits on obscure AVs,
but those are insignificant. The .dll had no hits. I don't think
Defender saw wizmouse as malware, but only looking it its logs might
show it decided it was a PUP (Probably Unwanted Program) or PUA
(Potentially Unwanted Application).
I was going to explore whether or not MS's implementation of the
feature did things like automatically move the background window to
the foreground when I scrolled it. I do not want this to happen.
However, before I was able to determine if this was the case or not,
the program disappeared.
John C. <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm not running my scanner from a "smart" phone, I'm running it from my
desktop computer. The software it uses is referred to correctly as an
"application".
Microsoft confused and conflated the terminology. Programs and
applications meant the same thing (Win32 programs), so application was
often abbreviated to "app". Then Microsoft came out with UWP (Universal >Windows Platform) apps. They didn't call them applications, or UWPs, or >newapps, but just apps. This confused the new UWP apps with the old
Win32 apps. So, now "app" means a UWP application, and application or >program means a Win32 application. Which terminology you lean towards >depends on how long you've been using PCs.
In my understanding and usage "app" is short for
"application program" and is distingushed from other
programs by what it is used for. There are programs like
"utilities" that are for maintaining the computer's
running, or system programs that are not apps.
You are correct. I find `app' exceedingly vulgar, and
prefer the normal terms `program' and `application'.
In my understanding and usage "app" is short for
"application program" and is distingushed from other
programs by what it is used for. There are programs like
"utilities" that are for maintaining the computer's
running, or system programs that are not apps.
In my understanding and usage "app" is short for "application program"
and is distingushed from other programs by what it is used for. There
are programs like "utilities" that are for maintaining the computer's
running, or system programs that are not apps.
It is anything with the extension .app
On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 13:58:55 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
John C. <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm not running my scanner from a "smart" phone, I'm running it from my
desktop computer. The software it uses is referred to correctly as an
"application".
Microsoft confused and conflated the terminology. Programs and >applications meant the same thing (Win32 programs), so application was >often abbreviated to "app". Then Microsoft came out with UWP (Universal >Windows Platform) apps. They didn't call them applications, or UWPs, or >newapps, but just apps. This confused the new UWP apps with the old
Win32 apps. So, now "app" means a UWP application, and application or >program means a Win32 application. Which terminology you lean towards >depends on how long you've been using PCs.
In my understanding and usage "app" is short for "application program"
and is distingushed from other programs by what it is used for. There
are programs like "utilities" that are for maintaining the computer's running, or system programs that are not apps.
John C. wrote:
I'm not running my scanner from a "smart" phone, I'm running it from my
desktop computer. The software it uses is referred to correctly as an
"application".
Microsoft confused and conflated the terminology. Programs and
applications meant the same thing (Win32 programs), so application was
often abbreviated to "app". Then Microsoft came out with UWP (Universal Windows Platform) apps. They didn't call them applications, or UWPs, or newapps, but just apps. This confused the new UWP apps with the old
Win32 apps. So, now "app" means a UWP application, and application or program means a Win32 application. Which terminology you lean towards depends on how long you've been using PCs.
In my understanding and usage "app" is short for "application program"
and is distingushed from other programs by what it is used for. There
are programs like "utilities" that are for maintaining the computer's running, or system programs that are not apps.
John C. wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:
Stan Brown wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
How do you *know* the program was "removed" (uninstalled)? Was it
listed in Control Panel (-> Programs -> Programs and Features) and
is it no longer listed there?
I know because I just installed the program. It runs in the background
with an icon on the Tray. I noticed when I started up the system a
couple of days ago that the icon was missing. When I tried to find the
program in my Start Menu, it wasn't there. When I looked in "Programs
and Features", it was no longer listed as an installed program.
I did NOT uninstall the program myself. Period.
There are installable and portable versions of WizMouse. The installer likely adds the Start menu and desktop shortcuts, and probably defaults
to showing a systray icon. For the portable version, you merely copy
the files (no shortcuts unless you create them). Could be there is an
option of whether or not to show a systray icon, especially for the
portable version (but then it really isn't portable if it gets added as
a startup program since affects the registry for startup proggies).
Seems you moved from Windows 7 to 10. Was that an upgrade from 7 to 10?
Or did you do a fresh install of Win10, and then install (not copy the portable version of) WizMouse?
Do you run any cleanup tools (e.g., CCleaner, Bleachbit, etc)?
Where was the install folder for WizMouse?
Is that folder, or its parent, a target for a cleanup tool?
Another possibility: Windows Security (formerly Windows Defender) or
the Malicious Software Removal Tool might have decided those programs
were dangerous and quarantined them.
There was no notification and no mention of it being uninstalled that
I was able to find anywhere.
To check that in Windows Security, open Settings; select
Update & Security
Windows Security
Virus & Threat Protection
Protection History
If there are any "This app has been blocked" notations, click on each
one in turn.
To verify, did you check where Slootweg mentioned in Defender's history?
I downloaded the portable version of WizMouse (so I could see the files
instead of the installer executable). I submitted wizmouse.exe and
wizmouse.dll to VirusTotal. The .exe had a couple hits on obscure AVs,
but those are insignificant. The .dll had no hits. I don't think
Defender saw wizmouse as malware, but only looking it its logs might
show it decided it was a PUP (Probably Unwanted Program) or PUA
(Potentially Unwanted Application).
I was going to explore whether or not MS's implementation of the
feature did things like automatically move the background window to
the foreground when I scrolled it. I do not want this to happen.
However, before I was able to determine if this was the case or not,
the program disappeared.
In Win10 settings, go to Mouse, and check if the option "Scroll inactive windows when I hover over them" is enabled. Scrolling the inactive
window does not change focus (the inactive window does rise to the top).
For what you do not want for now (make the scrolled inactive window rise
to the top), another option might look at is to make a window rise to
the top just by hovering the mouse over it. This is called the X-mouse function. See:
https://winaero.com/enable-xmouse-window-tracking-windows-10/
Scrolling an inactive window means part of that window could be
partially obliterated by another window. The x-mouse function lets you
pop the target window to the top that you could then scroll. Hover the
mouse over the prior window to have it get focus again. However, if I
need the scrolled window to be completely visible, I just click on it.
John C. wrote:
John Hall wrote:
John C. wrote:
Has anybody else experienced this problem (programs being uninstalled
without permission)
I've been using 10 for about five years and, to the best of my
knowledge, have never had that happen. Could your anti-virus have
quarantined the program as suspicious without your being aware of it? It >>> might be worth checking.
That was about the first thing I checked. Nope, the program just
disappeared.
With mention of anti-virus comes to mind possible other-actor malicious action whether deliberate or accidental.
Have you enabled RDP to allow remote access to your computer? Is Remote Assistance disabled? See:
https://winaero.com/disable-remote-assistance-windows-10/
I disabled that long ago. Don't need it, won't allow it, and disabled
it should there be any vulnerabilities.
Running any other remoting software (e.g., VNC, TeamViewer)? I have
used both in the past, but never left them running (as a server to
accept new outside connects).
What you described I've not seen happen: suddenly installed programs disappearing. So, I'd make sure no one can remote into your computer to perform accidental or malicious actions.
There is one condition where I've seen programs disappear: a corrupted Windows profile. There are online articles on how to mend, but I
usually don't bother, create a new Windows profile, and start again. In fact, you can backup your Windows profile: run sysdm.cpl, Advanced tab,
User Profiles, Copy To.
However, I resort to using an image backup to restore the drives back to
the exact state as before. The backups are scheduled. Relying on the
user to perform a backup means unreliable backups. Do you have image
backups to which you could restore your computer to when you saw the now missing programs? You could try using System Restore, but that does not revert the drive(s) back to their exact state as before. Restoring from image backups does. If you don't do backups then nothing on your
computer is important.
If you already did a restore from backup, could be the backup from which
you restored was created before you installed the software or drivers.
Steve Hayes wrote:
In my understanding and usage "app" is short for "application program"
and is distingushed from other programs by what it is used for. There
are programs like "utilities" that are for maintaining the computer's
running, or system programs that are not apps.
Whether we like it or not, I think V's explanation is entirely
accurate. App started with Steve Jobs and became a word
that meant cellphone applet. It was typical of Apple, creating
a cutesy, child-like environment that would placate and
entertain people afraid of tech, with icons that look like
they're designed by a 12 year old girl who dots her i's with
little hearts.
On Windows it's always been "programs". Only some
programmers say "application". (It could be worse. For
awhile people were talking about their programming
projects as "solutions".)
Having established that app means cellphone applet, MS
have made things more clear. They've gone from Metro to
RT to UWP to name essentially the same crippled, interpreted
applet software. Who knows those terms? No one outside of
Windows programming. With the Start Menu separating Programs
from Apps it becomes still more clear. These Metro applets are,
and are meant to be, more like cellphone applets than Windows
software. They're a completely different animal, closer to
dyanmic webpages than to complied executables. (Though,
frankly, I've never found a clear explanation of exactly how
they work. I've seen lists of restricted APIs. I've seen lists
of all the ways one can write a Metro applet -- from HTML to
C++. But I've never seen a technical explanation of exactly how
they operate and get interpreted.)
I often call them Metro apps because that's the first name
MS came up with and it's the only name with flavor. RT and UWP
are terms only geeks can like. Metro carries a connotation of
urban fashion. As though Bill Gates had decided to buy an iPhone,
get a haircut that costs more than $10, and invite some intelligentsia
over for winetasting. MS probably hoped that the flat, ugly,
borderless monotone of Metro apps, with the Apple-style slide
controls, would seem hip and artfully sparse.
That's an interesting pattern with fashions. For example, with
the use of color, rare and intense colors were prized for millennia.
Then we came up with "day-glo" fluorescent colors. All colors were
possible and cheap. So what were gourmands to do? Subtle variations
of beige became all the rage. Computers have been similar. We had
3-D. We had walnut burl windows. We had boombox windows. With
Win7 we had clever translucency and grass growing on window
frames. Garish and complicated had reached their limit. Where was
there to go? Hues of beige. That's basically what the Metro theme is.
The fashion sophisticate now goes for minimalist, ever since excess
became effortless. Though I'm not sure how much of the computing
public gets that particular joke.
I have been attempting to get used to Windows 10, but now it had
developed a problem that, if it ever happens again, will force me to
either go back to Windows 7 *OR* finally make the move to Linux.
What is happening is that I'm seeing programs which I was able to use
without issue in Windows 7 and which I have installed in Windows 10
suddenly, and completely, disappear.
In Win10 settings, go to Mouse, and check if the option "Scroll inactive windows when I hover over them" is enabled. Scrolling the inactivenot ___/
window does not change focus (the inactive window does rise to the top).
Newyana2 wrote:
Steve Hayes wrote:
In my understanding and usage "app" is short for "application program"
and is distingushed from other programs by what it is used for. There
are programs like "utilities" that are for maintaining the computer's
running, or system programs that are not apps.
Whether we like it or not, I think V's explanation is entirely
accurate. App started with Steve Jobs and became a word
that meant cellphone applet. It was typical of Apple, creating
a cutesy, child-like environment that would placate and
entertain people afraid of tech, with icons that look like
they're designed by a 12 year old girl who dots her i's with
little hearts.
On Windows it's always been "programs". Only some
programmers say "application". (It could be worse. For
awhile people were talking about their programming
projects as "solutions".)
Yes, that wouldn't have been a good thing.
Having established that app means cellphone applet, MS
have made things more clear. They've gone from Metro to
RT to UWP to name essentially the same crippled, interpreted
applet software. Who knows those terms? No one outside of
Windows programming. With the Start Menu separating Programs
from Apps it becomes still more clear. These Metro applets are,
and are meant to be, more like cellphone applets than Windows
software. They're a completely different animal, closer to
dyanmic webpages than to complied executables. (Though,
frankly, I've never found a clear explanation of exactly how
they work. I've seen lists of restricted APIs. I've seen lists
of all the ways one can write a Metro applet -- from HTML to
C++. But I've never seen a technical explanation of exactly how
they operate and get interpreted.)
My understanding of them is that they're more or less like a portable
app that uses callouts to modules which are standard in every Windows
version since W8. The "apps" are hidden in a folder named "C:/Program Files/WindowsApps". You may think you can "uninstall" them, but all that
does is to (usually) turn them off if they normally run in the
background AND to eliminate access to them. The program files actually
remain in the WindowsApps folder. Steps to access to that folder are
easily found on the internet so that you can delete the program files,
but doing so can be risky if the files you delete are for "apps" that
come by default with Windows.
For me, one of the most frustrating things about W10 is the massively
reduced UI configurability.
On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 13:58:55 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
John C. <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm not running my scanner from a "smart" phone, I'm running it from my
desktop computer. The software it uses is referred to correctly as an
"application".
Microsoft confused and conflated the terminology. Programs and
applications meant the same thing (Win32 programs), so application was
often abbreviated to "app". Then Microsoft came out with UWP (Universal
Windows Platform) apps. They didn't call them applications, or UWPs, or
newapps, but just apps. This confused the new UWP apps with the old
Win32 apps. So, now "app" means a UWP application, and application or
program means a Win32 application. Which terminology you lean towards
depends on how long you've been using PCs.
In my understanding and usage "app" is short for "application program"
and is distingushed from other programs by what it is used for. There
are programs like "utilities" that are for maintaining the computer's running, or system programs that are not apps.
On 4/28/2024 11:17 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
In my understanding and usage "app" is short for "application
program" and is distingushed from other programs by what it is used
for. There are programs like "utilities" that are for maintaining
the computer's running, or system programs that are not apps.
Whether we like it or not, I think V's explanation is entirely
accurate. App started with Steve Jobs and became a word that meant
cellphone applet. It was typical of Apple, creating a cutesy,
child-like environment that would placate and entertain people afraid
of tech, with icons that look like they're designed by a 12 year old
girl who dots her i's with little hearts.
One annoyance still unsolved is folder windows. I tried runing a Win7
script to make all windows the same size. It seems to have worked.
But then if I do something like maximize one window, Win10 starts
maxing all of them and I have to retrain it. That's especially
irritating because it's been broken since Win98.
On 30/04/24 03:38, Newyana2 wrote:
One annoyance still unsolved is folder windows. I tried runing a Win7
script to make all windows the same size. It seems to have worked.
But then if I do something like maximize one window, Win10 starts
maxing all of them and I have to retrain it. That's especially
irritating because it's been broken since Win98.
I dislike the Windows implementation of folder windows for several
reasons, but a major one is that they take up massive amounts of screen
real estate. Why do they have to be so big, and filled with a lot of
useless detail?
On my desktop (I run OS/2), each folder has separately specified display attributes, such as whether in icon view the icons are located as
placed, or put in multiple columns, etc. (There's also a tree view and a details view, and the details view does take a lot of space.) In the
case of a folder whose files are all of the same kind, e.g. all source
files, I usually choose to display only the names (no icons shown) in a simple multi-column list, so that the folder window is very small. That matters to me. During program development, in particular, I'll have a
number of folder windows open and a number of other windows (e.g.
command shells) open. I want to be able to get at those easily. Windows
seems to have been designed for people who only run one program at a time.
On my desktop (I run OS/2), each folder has separately specified display attributes, such as whether in icon view the icons are located as
placed, or put in multiple columns, etc.
Here's another view of the same folder, showing all details. http://www.pmoylan.org/ftp/DetailsView.png (So more comparable to the
Windows default view.) The window is now a lot larger, of course, but
you could still fit plenty of other things on the screen. And in
practice it wouldn't be as wide because I don't normally choose to
display three separate timestamps for each file.
On 4/29/2024 8:47 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
I dislike the Windows implementation of folder windows for several
reasons, but a major one is that they take up massive amounts of
screen real estate. Why do they have to be so big, and filled with
a lot of useless detail?
You can adjust the columns, de-select some of them, and put whatever
information you want in the window. Just because the default sucks,
don't give up.
[Picture] [The scale was doubled, to make it easier to read]
https://i.postimg.cc/K4XGLY9b/folder-W11.gif
If the built-in is not good enough, third party tools also exist.
That's what Windows is supposed to do, dating back to Win9x.
It's been broken with every rendition. Yet the settings are still
there -- thousands of keys in the Registry meant to spec the size
and orientation of each individual window. It's like building a
skyscraper and neglecting to put stairs... for 30 years... How do
they do that? Maybe it's an interesting story.
case of a folder whose files are all of the same kind, e.g. all source
files, I usually choose to display only the names (no icons shown) in a simple multi-column list, so that the folder window is very small. That matters to me. During program development, in particular, I'll have a
number of folder windows open and a number of other windows (e.g.
command shells) open. I want to be able to get at those easily. Windows
seems to have been designed for people who only run one program at a time.
Windows Media Player, is an item in transition. Only older versions
are fairly benign.
detailed view where also the size, the time and the file time are
True, it's possible to do that much, but notice how much of your window
is taken up with things that aren't file names.
Here's a similar example on my computer
http://www.pmoylan.org/ftp/FolderView.png
Newyana2 wrote:
That's what Windows is supposed to do, dating back to Win9x.
It's been broken with every rendition. Yet the settings are still
there -- thousands of keys in the Registry meant to spec the size
and orientation of each individual window. It's like building a
skyscraper and neglecting to put stairs... for 30 years... How do
they do that? Maybe it's an interesting story.
Thanks. That explains what I wondered about for a long time. Up till XP
the windows had individual settings. Suddenly with version 7 that was
gone.
John Hall wrote:
In message <v0dcu6$2v9ts$1@dont-email.me>, John C. <r9jmg0@yahoo.com>
writes
<big snip>
Has anybody else experienced this problem (programs being uninstalled
without permission)
I've been using 10 for about five years and, to the best of my
knowledge, have never had that happen. Could your anti-virus have
quarantined the program as suspicious without your being aware of it? It
might be worth checking.
That was about the first thing I checked. Nope, the program just
disappeared.
On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 06:33:38 -0700, "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Newyana2 wrote:
On Windows it's always been "programs". Only some
programmers say "application". (It could be worse. For
awhile people were talking about their programming
projects as "solutions".)
Yes, that wouldn't have been a good thing.
I have seen advertisements for "solutions", but they never tell you
what problem they are claiming to be able to solve.
Yes, they're all programs, but some are applications, like word
processors, spreadsheets, databases etc.
But I have a program called "Glary Utilities", which is not an
application. It just helps the computer to run better. Likewise, the operating system is a program, but not an application.
The operating system is not a program. It is an executive.
In message <v14jj8$12jqr$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> writes
<big snip>
The operating system is not a program. It is an executive.
That brings back memories. The computer I used back in the 1970s, an ICL 1900, actually called the core part of its OS "Executive" with a capital
E.
In message <v14jj8$12jqr$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> writes
<big snip>
The operating system is not a program. It is an executive.
That brings back memories. The computer I used back in the 1970s,
an ICL 1900, actually called the core part of its OS "Executive" with a capital E.
On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 06:33:38 -0700, "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com>
wrote:
But I have a program called "Glary Utilities", which is not an
application. It just helps the computer to run better.
I have seen advertisements for "solutions", but they never tell you
what problem they are claiming to be able to solve.
On Sat, 4 May 2024 02:11:51 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On 5/4/2024 1:01 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
Yes, they're all programs, but some are applications, like word
processors, spreadsheets, databases etc.
But I have a program called "Glary Utilities", which is not an
application. It just helps the computer to run better. Likewise, the
operating system is a program, but not an application.
The operating system is not a program. It is an executive.
In MyEnglish the definition of a program is "a set of instructions to
operate a computer". Is this "Executive" not that?
My first computer had an OS in ROM, with built-in BASIC, with which
you could write other programs and save them and their data on tape,
but all were programs. With a couple of add-ons you could have a DOS
(CP/M), and save stuff on floppy disks, but that by-passed the BASIC
in ROM, so you had to get programming languages that ran under CP/M,
but whether they loaded from ROM, tape or disks, all there sets of instructions tomake the computer do different things.
On Sat, 4 May 2024 02:11:51 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
On 5/4/2024 1:01 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
Yes, they're all programs, but some are applications, like word
processors, spreadsheets, databases etc.
But I have a program called "Glary Utilities", which is not an
application. It just helps the computer to run better. Likewise,
the operating system is a program, but not an application.
The operating system is not a program. It is an executive.
In MyEnglish the definition of a program is "a set of instructions to
operate a computer". Is this "Executive" not that?
On Sat, 4 May 2024 02:11:51 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On 5/4/2024 1:01 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
Yes, they're all programs, but some are applications, like word
processors, spreadsheets, databases etc.
But I have a program called "Glary Utilities", which is not an
application. It just helps the computer to run better. Likewise, the
operating system is a program, but not an application.
The operating system is not a program. It is an executive.
In MyEnglish the definition of a program is "a set of instructions to
operate a computer". Is this "Executive" not that?
My first computer had an OS in ROM, with built-in BASIC, with which
you could write other programs and save them and their data on tape,
but all were programs.
With a couple of add-ons you could have a DOS
(CP/M), and save stuff on floppy disks, but that by-passed the BASIC
in ROM, so you had to get programming languages that ran under CP/M,
but whether they loaded from ROM, tape or disks, all there sets of instructions tomake the computer do different things.
The first computer I worked on, though it was not called a computer,
but rather an 'Electronic Accounting Machine'. I 'wrote' programs on
it by plugging wires into a board that made contact with relays.
It was definitely a computer, though, stepping through programs,
doing math, branching on tested conditions, and reading and writing
to and from I/O devices.
I worked on that for about two years, at which time I started
working on a different set of machines, and found out that a program
could actually be stored in a memory.
In MyEnglish the definition of a program is "a set of instructions to
operate a computer". Is this "Executive" not that?
If you boot a memtest floppy, that is a single program that
runs 100% of the time. Nobody tells it to do anything.
It is the boss. All machine resources are available.
If it wanted to erase your hard drive, nothing would stop it.
On Windows it's always been "programs". Only some
programmers say "application". (It could be worse. For
awhile people were talking about their programming
projects as "solutions".)
Steve Hayes wrote:
In MyEnglish the definition of a program is "a set of instructions to
operate a computer". Is this "Executive" not that?
It's mine too. If you operate with a class called "executives" (or
OS's), it's just a subset of the programs.
On 05/05/24 02:56, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Sat, 4 May 2024 02:11:51 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
On 5/4/2024 1:01 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
Yes, they're all programs, but some are applications, like word
processors, spreadsheets, databases etc.
But I have a program called "Glary Utilities", which is not an
application. It just helps the computer to run better. Likewise,
the operating system is a program, but not an application.
The operating system is not a program. It is an executive.
In MyEnglish the definition of a program is "a set of instructions to
operate a computer". Is this "Executive" not that?
It's all software, of course, but a person writing operating systems
code has to be aware of hardware features that the average applications >programmer never comes into contact with. For certain functions, e.g.
thread switching, it might be necessary to descend into assembly language.
There's another distinction that occurs to me. An application program
has a beginning, a middle, and an end. It does it job and then
terminates. The operating system never terminates until the whole
computer is shut down.
The distinction is becoming fuzzier now that some operating systems are
built in layers. The bottom-level operating system is probably small and
does only some basic things. (Typically thread switching and memory >management.) Then another operating system is built on top of that. And
maybe even another on top of that.
US English is somewhat at a disadvantage here, be cause they use
"program" in a wider sense, so they often have to add "software" to
it, to distinguish a "software program" from other kinds of what the
rest of us would call "programmes", like TV programmes, sports events programmes etc.
On 05/05/24 15:40, lar3ryca wrote:
The first computer I worked on, though it was not called a computer,
but rather an 'Electronic Accounting Machine'. I 'wrote' programs on
it by plugging wires into a board that made contact with relays.
It was definitely a computer, though, stepping through programs,
doing math, branching on tested conditions, and reading and writing
to and from I/O devices.
I worked on that for about two years, at which time I started
working on a different set of machines, and found out that a program
could actually be stored in a memory.
We take memory for granted now, but it took a while to get it right.
Looking back, the ideas of having main memory on a rotating drum or in columns of mercury sound incredible crude.
To make computer memory practical, the electronics people had to learn
how to put transistors on semiconductor chips. You can also build
flip-flops with vacuum tubes, but vacuum tubes already become awkward
once you have a few hundred of them.
In my student days, and for some time afterwards, I used the plugboard approach, but that was with analogue computers. Those were very good at solving differential equations, but they died out through not being sufficiently scalable.
On 2024-05-05 02:15, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 05/05/24 15:40, lar3ryca wrote:
The first computer I worked on, though it was not called a computer,
but rather an 'Electronic Accounting Machine'. I 'wrote' programs on
it by plugging wires into a board that made contact with relays.
It was definitely a computer, though, stepping through programs,
doing math, branching on tested conditions, and reading and writing
to and from I/O devices.
I worked on that for about two years, at which time I started
working on a different set of machines, and found out that a program
could actually be stored in a memory.
We take memory for granted now, but it took a while to get it right. Looking back, the ideas of having main memory on a rotating drum or in columns of mercury sound incredible crude.
How about memory on acoustic delay lines?
When I worked for CDC, I sometimes got called to Allstate (the insurance folks), to repair the terminals.
The memory on those consisted of modules containing spirals of what
might best be described as 'piano wire'. Bits were input by giving the
wire a quick twist (twist, then reset back to idle). That generated
something like a shock wave that travelled around the spiral to a
transducer on the other end, I can't remember if it twisted one
direction for a '1' and the other direction for a '0', or if it only
used one direction of twist, relying on framing pulses and time between
bit to differentiate between them.
US English is somewhat at a disadvantage here, be cause they use
"program" in a wider sense, so they often have to add "software" to
it, to distinguish a "software program" from other kinds of what the
rest of us would call "programmes", like TV programmes, sports events >programmes etc.
lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
On 2024-05-05 02:15, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 05/05/24 15:40, lar3ryca wrote:
The first computer I worked on, though it was not called a computer,
but rather an 'Electronic Accounting Machine'. I 'wrote' programs on
it by plugging wires into a board that made contact with relays.
It was definitely a computer, though, stepping through programs,
doing math, branching on tested conditions, and reading and writing
to and from I/O devices.
I worked on that for about two years, at which time I started
working on a different set of machines, and found out that a program
could actually be stored in a memory.
We take memory for granted now, but it took a while to get it right.
Looking back, the ideas of having main memory on a rotating drum or in
columns of mercury sound incredible crude.
How about memory on acoustic delay lines?
When I worked for CDC, I sometimes got called to Allstate (the insurance
folks), to repair the terminals.
The memory on those consisted of modules containing spirals of what
might best be described as 'piano wire'. Bits were input by giving the
wire a quick twist (twist, then reset back to idle). That generated
something like a shock wave that travelled around the spiral to a
transducer on the other end, I can't remember if it twisted one
direction for a '1' and the other direction for a '0', or if it only
used one direction of twist, relying on framing pulses and time between
bit to differentiate between them.
That's a bit primitive.
One of the first bulk computer memories,
used by Alan Turing himself, was a mercury delay line.
Bits were stored as sound pulses in a column of mercury.
Just as with a hard drive the computer had to wait
for the right part of the bit string to pass by.
I would have to look up how long its bit string could be,
Jan
Some of the first SRAM (suitable for home computer projects) were
256x4 bits and 1024x1 bit static RAM running at 5 volts. "Beautiful
stuff". Compared to the dreadful DRAM of the day. And just one of
those chips, stores the same stuff as a delay line, and also offers
"random" access, so is a lot faster.
My breadboarded home computer used (4) 256x4 chips. As a 256x16
array (16 bit CPU).
On 2024-05-06 12:47, Paul wrote:
On 5/6/2024 7:52 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
On 2024-05-05 02:15, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 05/05/24 15:40, lar3ryca wrote:
The first computer I worked on, though it was not called a computer, >>>>>> but rather an 'Electronic Accounting Machine'. I 'wrote' programs on >>>>>> it by plugging wires into a board that made contact with relays.
It was definitely a computer, though, stepping through programs,
doing math, branching on tested conditions, and reading and writing >>>>>> to and from I/O devices.
I worked on that for about two years, at which time I started
working on a different set of machines, and found out that a program >>>>>> could actually be stored in a memory.
We take memory for granted now, but it took a while to get it right. >>>>> Looking back, the ideas of having main memory on a rotating drum or in >>>>> columns of mercury sound incredible crude.
How about memory on acoustic delay lines?
When I worked for CDC, I sometimes got called to Allstate (the insurance >>>> folks), to repair the terminals.
The memory on those consisted of modules containing spirals of what
might best be described as 'piano wire'. Bits were input by giving the >>>> wire a quick twist (twist, then reset back to idle). That generated
something like a shock wave that travelled around the spiral to a
transducer on the other end, I can't remember if it twisted one
direction for a '1' and the other direction for a '0', or if it only
used one direction of twist, relying on framing pulses and time between >>>> bit to differentiate between them.
That's a bit primitive.
One of the first bulk computer memories,
used by Alan Turing himself, was a mercury delay line.
Bits were stored as sound pulses in a column of mercury.
Just as with a hard drive the computer had to wait
for the right part of the bit string to pass by.
I would have to look up how long its bit string could be,
Jan
https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095708310
"quartz crystals were used as transducers and the ultrasonic pulses were
passed along a tube of mercury about 5 feet (1.5 meters) in length. >> The delay was approximately 1 millisecond but it enabled nearly 1000 pulses
to be stored. Later acoustic memory used magnetostrictive transducers and
nickel-iron wire, with the electrical signals converted into stress waves."
A thousand bits, isn't a lot.
Some of the first SRAM (suitable for home computer projects)
were 256x4 bits and 1024x1 bit static RAM running at 5 volts.
"Beautiful stuff". Compared to the dreadful DRAM of the day.
And just one of those chips, stores the same stuff as a delay
line, and also offers "random" access, so is a lot faster.
My breadboarded home computer used (4) 256x4 chips. As a 256x16 array (16 bit CPU).
And my breadboard computer used 8 1024x1 chips (2501?), and that was also my first computer. The memory cost me $85.00 CAD at the time, about 1975 if I remember correctly).
On 5/6/2024 7:52 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
On 2024-05-05 02:15, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 05/05/24 15:40, lar3ryca wrote:
The first computer I worked on, though it was not called a computer, >>>>> but rather an 'Electronic Accounting Machine'. I 'wrote' programs on >>>>> it by plugging wires into a board that made contact with relays.
It was definitely a computer, though, stepping through programs,
doing math, branching on tested conditions, and reading and writing
to and from I/O devices.
I worked on that for about two years, at which time I started
working on a different set of machines, and found out that a program >>>>> could actually be stored in a memory.
We take memory for granted now, but it took a while to get it right.
Looking back, the ideas of having main memory on a rotating drum or in >>>> columns of mercury sound incredible crude.
How about memory on acoustic delay lines?
When I worked for CDC, I sometimes got called to Allstate (the insurance >>> folks), to repair the terminals.
The memory on those consisted of modules containing spirals of what
might best be described as 'piano wire'. Bits were input by giving the
wire a quick twist (twist, then reset back to idle). That generated
something like a shock wave that travelled around the spiral to a
transducer on the other end, I can't remember if it twisted one
direction for a '1' and the other direction for a '0', or if it only
used one direction of twist, relying on framing pulses and time between
bit to differentiate between them.
That's a bit primitive.
One of the first bulk computer memories,
used by Alan Turing himself, was a mercury delay line.
Bits were stored as sound pulses in a column of mercury.
Just as with a hard drive the computer had to wait
for the right part of the bit string to pass by.
I would have to look up how long its bit string could be,
Jan
https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095708310
"quartz crystals were used as transducers and the ultrasonic pulses were
passed along a tube of mercury about 5 feet (1.5 meters) in length.
The delay was approximately 1 millisecond but it enabled nearly 1000 pulses
to be stored. Later acoustic memory used magnetostrictive transducers and
nickel-iron wire, with the electrical signals converted into stress waves."
A thousand bits, isn't a lot.
Some of the first SRAM (suitable for home computer projects)
were 256x4 bits and 1024x1 bit static RAM running at 5 volts.
"Beautiful stuff". Compared to the dreadful DRAM of the day.
And just one of those chips, stores the same stuff as a delay
line, and also offers "random" access, so is a lot faster.
My breadboarded home computer used (4) 256x4 chips. As a 256x16 array (16 bit CPU).
On 5/6/2024 7:52 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:[-]
lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
On 2024-05-05 02:15, Peter Moylan wrote:
We take memory for granted now, but it took a while to get it right.
Looking back, the ideas of having main memory on a rotating drum or in >>> columns of mercury sound incredible crude.
How about memory on acoustic delay lines?
When I worked for CDC, I sometimes got called to Allstate (the insurance >> folks), to repair the terminals.
The memory on those consisted of modules containing spirals of what
might best be described as 'piano wire'. Bits were input by giving the
wire a quick twist (twist, then reset back to idle). That generated
something like a shock wave that travelled around the spiral to a
transducer on the other end, I can't remember if it twisted one
direction for a '1' and the other direction for a '0', or if it only
used one direction of twist, relying on framing pulses and time between
bit to differentiate between them.
That's a bit primitive.
One of the first bulk computer memories,
used by Alan Turing himself, was a mercury delay line.
Bits were stored as sound pulses in a column of mercury.
Just as with a hard drive the computer had to wait
for the right part of the bit string to pass by.
I would have to look up how long its bit string could be,
Jan
https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095708310
"quartz crystals were used as transducers and the ultrasonic pulses were
passed along a tube of mercury about 5 feet (1.5 meters) in length.
The delay was approximately 1 millisecond but it enabled nearly 1000
pulses to be stored. Later acoustic memory used magnetostrictive
transducers and nickel-iron wire, with the electrical signals
converted into stress waves."
A thousand bits, isn't a lot.
My first computer had an 8080A processor (very new at the time) and 1k<snip>
bytes of RAM.
The front panel bore the logo "IDSFA-80". If anyone asked what IDSFA
stood for, I could tell them it doesn't stand for anything.
On Tue, 7 May 2024 10:09:03 +1000, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
My first computer had an 8080A processor (very new at the time) and 1k<snip>
bytes of RAM.
The front panel bore the logo "IDSFA-80". If anyone asked what IDSFA
stood for, I could tell them it doesn't stand for anything.
Nice. I see what you did there, although it took a second.
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