All these years I've been avoiding Win10. Now I'm finally
setting up a new system. I was in the middle of copying
over a Raspberry Pi disk image (a 1 hour project) when I
got a BSOD and it rebooted. Boy was I surpised! I don't
think I've seen a BSOD since Win98. No one told me that
MS brought them back. If I'd known that MS had brought
back BSOD I might have switched to Win10 earlier. And they
force you to reboot. How cool is that? :)
It's so nostalgic, after years on XP and 7, to finally have a
Windows system that might fall apart any any time. It
brings back memories of installing Mindspring from floppies.
"copying over a Raspberry Pi disk image"Writing a rPi image using a Windows machine involves taking a single
There's your clue.
finally have a Windows system that might fall apart any time.
And they force you to reboot.
VanguardLH wrote:
"copying over a Raspberry Pi disk image"Writing a rPi image using a Windows machine involves taking a single large file (e.g. 1.1GB for the latest raspiOS) and writing it sector by sector to an SD card
There's your clue.
Now, what makes you think that Windows should fail to properly write it based on what the file contains? windows doesn't care what's in the sectors, or what the bitwidth is, its just data.
Who needs the clue?
The computer is a week old. :)
I took out a RAM stick and then it tested fine. I carefully
vacuumed out the RAM slot, put the RAM back, and now it's all
testing fine. So... Maybe the RAM was a bit loose?
Everything seems to point to a bad hardware connection with the
second stick, but I don't see how that took so long to pop up.
The RPi has nothing to do with it. I was just reading the data from
an SD card in a USB stick reader, to make an ISO of the RPi system.
I was using a program called Win32 Disk Imager.
"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> wrote
| You can ofcourse point your finger at the OS, but I would suggest to
| check/test your hardware.
|
| A BSOD /can/ be caused by malfunctioning software*, but is often caused by | aging hardware (which develops faults over time). Heck, even simple
| over-heating can cause it.
|
The computer is a week old. :)
But in fairness to Win10 (though I can't forgive MS for making
blue screens time out before I can read them),
untick 'Automatically restart' -> OK -> OK.
| I have to ask though : how come you suspected the OS, which (I suspect)
| you had been using without a problem for a number of years, and not the
| "big change" you just made, the computer ?
That was meant half as a joke.
I was just making a dig at Win10, because I can't remember the last time
I saw a BSOD on XP. It's been years.
But I'm also not very experienced with Win10,
Interestingly, every problem I've had turns out to be common,
with lots of discussion online. I guess there's an advantage
to coming to an OS 10 years late. All the tweaks and bug fixes
are worked out, so I don't have to write them myself. :)
Win10 just seems to be generally less stable and less cooperative
than earlier systems.
VanguardLH wrote:
"copying over a Raspberry Pi disk image"
There's your clue.
Writing a rPi image using a Windows machine involves taking a single
large file (e.g. 1.1GB for the latest raspiOS) and writing it sector by sector to an SD card
Now, what makes you think that Windows should fail to properly write it
based on what the file contains? windows doesn't care what's in the
sectors, or what the bitwidth is, its just data.
Who needs the clue?
But in fairness to Win10 (though I can't forgive MS for making
blue screens time out before I can read them),
I took out a RAM stick and then it tested fine. I carefully vacuumed
out the RAM slot, put the RAM back, and now it's all testing fine.
So... Maybe the RAM was a bit loose? But I've been setting up the
machine for 2 weeks without problems.
Now I'm wondering if there are other possible issues. Loose connections? Everything seems to point to a bad hardware connection with the second
stick, but I don't see how that took so long to pop up.
The RPi has nothing to do with it. I was just reading the data from an
SD card in a USB stick reader, to make an ISO of the RPi system. I
was using a program called Win32 Disk Imager.
But I'm also not very experienced with Win10, and so far it seems surprisingly brittle to me.
And I've installed Visual Studio 6 without problems, but I don't yet
know whether that will have problems.
An example of what seems like brittleness: I now have a behavior where
the Personalization applet opens to the blue box with the white gear
and hangs there, for maybe a minute or two. Running Procmon I don't
see anything suspicious going on during that time. And this is on a
brand new system. It started happening with no action I'm aware of on
my part. I did put in a new Desktop picture, but that was before the
hang started happening. It's not a big problem, but it is mysterious
and gives me pause about depending on Win10.
I'm also going to disable the memory dump. Windows wrote a 700MB
file! It appears to be just raw memory data -- nothing that I have
the expertise to make sense of.
"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote
| Configure Windows to /not/ reboot on a BSOD.
Yes. See KenW's post above. I didn't know it was an optional
setting, but now I do and I disabled the rebooting. I'm also going
to disable the memory dump. Windows wrote a 700MB file!
It appears to be just raw memory data -- nothing that I have
the expertise to make sense of.
The thing is, though, that I just built the computer 2 weeks ago.
It's hard to click in RAM sticks without proper contact, but it's possible that was the problem.
One unusual thing with Memtest: It said there are 12 cores, with 6
active. Is it possible that I actually bought a much higher powered
CPU and they've crippled it to sell it down-market?
Nothing in the event log. At the time it crashed, the copy of the disk
image was about halfway done, I was running FF, and I was taking a
file out of a ZIP to read. So, not a lot of strain.
"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
|
| Normally, I would suggest a memtest floppy as a starting point.
| But the bottom of this post, shows a candidate source of grief.
| Likely no need to test RAM now. I would be using my portable
| USB to SD stick right about now.
|
I think the RPi issue is a red herring. I was using a Windows
program designed to work with a USB SD adapter. After dealing
with the RAM issue I had no trouble reading the Pi SD and writing
the disk image to two other SDs for backup.
As I explained to Rudy, Memtest86 told me I had mucho RAM
errors. (As in "F0000000 Expected F0000020")
I took out the second stick and retested. Fine. I carefully
put back the second stick. Fine. So far, so good. So that sounds
like a loos stick, right? But I'm still a bit nervous, as no problems
arose during extensive install and config operations in setting up
the system. I've been working on it quite a bit for 2 weeks now,
after having built it. (MSI B760M-P Pro motherboard. G.Skill Ripjaws
dual channel pair of 8 GB DDR4-3200 RAM.)
Any thoughts on that scenario?
The bluescreen tool is interesting. I ran it. It found
a memory dump from the crash and says it was set off
by a realtek (audio) driver. I'm not sure that really tells
me anything.
The only option was a 256 KB dump file, but the bluescreen
reader found whatever was there, anyway.
"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote
| Did you let Windows Update (WU) install the hardware drivers, or did you
| get the drivers from the hardware manufacturers own web site?
V! What do you take me for? :) I always go to the manufacturer.
This is the first time the MB didn't come with a disk, but I found
the drivers online without trouble.
Why would I boot into safe mode for something like that?
I built it.
Intel 1-5 12400 6-Core Boxed Processor with fan $150
MSI B760M-P Pro Intel LGA 1700 microATX Motherboard $100
G.Skill Ripjaws V 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 PC4-25600 CL16 Dual Channel RAM $40
Thermaltake Smart Series 700 Watt 80 Plus $60
I had a case and SATA SSDs. But I also bought an M2 SSD,
since the board accommodates it.
I built it.
Intel 1-5 12400 6-Core Boxed Processor with fan $150
MSI B760M-P Pro Intel LGA 1700 microATX Motherboard $100
G.Skill Ripjaws V 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 PC4-25600 CL16 Dual Channel RAM $40
Thermaltake Smart Series 700 Watt 80 Plus $60
I had a case and SATA SSDs. But I also bought an M2 SSD,
since the board accommodates it.
"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
| On a four slot motherboard, you can test two sticks in single channel
mode.
|
| channel0 channel1
| | |
| white white <=== the color of the slots, is to emphasize
how to do dual channel
| | |
| black black
Let me see if I understand. My manual says to use A2 for 1 stick,
A2/B2 for two sticks, or 4 sticks. You're saying that if I use
A1/B1 it works but in single channel mode? And a single stick
will work in any slot? Why, then, do they say A2 for a single
stick? This is the first I've dealt with dual-channel memory.
But it is dual channel, so I have it in A2/B2. To test I took out
B2. Then when I put it back it was OK.
What if I wanted to use 3 sticks? Does that work?
A2/B2 as dual channel with A1 added? I'm not thinking
of doing that. I just wondered, if I happened
to have one spare stick at some point.
I think that for now I'll see how it goes. With zero errors
on my final test using A2/B2, it seems unlikely that there's
a problem.
I did use the MS test first, which also found errors, but
it had nothing to say about where or what kind, so that
wasn't much use.
"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote
| > One unusual thing with Memtest: It said there are 12 cores, with 6
| > active. Is it possible that I actually bought a much higher powered
| > CPU and they've crippled it to sell it down-market?
|
| No, you got a 6-core CPU with hypertheading enabled. Think of
| hyperthreading like the interpolated resolution you see advertised for
| scanners to bloat their specs.
|
Ah. OK. As long as I'm not missing anything. :)
"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
| https://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_exe/mb/PROB760M-PDDR4.pdf
|
Thanks. I have that manual, but I did download the BIOS
manual, which I hadn't thought to look for. I set the XMP
and went from 2100 to 3200. Crazy stuff. I see that I'm
behind the times.
"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
| https://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_exe/mb/PROB760M-PDDR4.pdf
Thanks. I have that manual, but I did download the BIOS
manual, which I hadn't thought to look for. I set the XMP
and went from 2100 to 3200. Crazy stuff. I see that I'm
behind the times.
Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
| https://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_exe/mb/PROB760M-PDDR4.pdf
Thanks. I have that manual, but I did download the BIOS
manual, which I hadn't thought to look for. I set the XMP
and went from 2100 to 3200. Crazy stuff. I see that I'm
behind the times.
When I asked if you were overclocking, you said "not doing any fancy business" and "no use for overclocking". But now you're playing with
XMP (Intel Extreme Memory Profile).
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/extreme-memory-profile-xmp.html
https://www.pcgamer.com/what-are-xmp-profiles-and-how-do-i-use-them/
In my mobo's manual regarding XMP, it says:
Load XMP Setting
Load XMP settings to overclock the memory and perform beyond standard
specifications.
Hopefully I disabled that setting. I want a reliable and stable
computer.
When I asked if you were overclocking, you said "not doing any fancy business" and "no use for overclocking". But now you're playing with
XMP (Intel Extreme Memory Profile).
"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote
| https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/extreme-memory-profile-xmp.html
| https://www.pcgamer.com/what-are-xmp-profiles-and-how-do-i-use-them/
|
| In my mobo's manual regarding XMP, it says:
|
| Load XMP Setting
| Load XMP settings to overclock the memory and perform beyond standard
| specifications.
|
As Paul explained, it's not actually overclocking. I looked
it up myself and found the same kinds of statements. It's
a default setting of reduced speed (in my case 2/3 speed)
in order to make sure it works on a wide variety of hardware.
I don't really understand all these details, but on my XP box
I have DDR3 rated at 1866. CPU-Z says it's 938. But in the
same box on Win10 it also lists half speed. So I'm guessing that
the XP RAM is running at full speed. I then booted into the XP
BIOS and switched the RAM clock speed from Auto to the top
option of 1867, rebooted, and CPU-Z now shows the same
numbers. So it seems that putting a governor on RAM is a
new thing. Like giving you a half-size washing machine tub
so that the official ratings on the motor life will look better.
On my new Win10 box it was running the RAM rated for
3200 at 2100. (Win10 also lets you confirm speed in the task
manager performance window. XP doesn't show that. So I'm
just going by CPU-Z and the BIOS setting say.)
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 297 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 06:51:44 |
| Calls: | 6,666 |
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