XPost: comp.mobile.android, alt.comp.os.windows-11

Paul wrote on Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:06:45 -0500 :

The only Widget sample I have on my system, is News and Interests,
which is an App without App decorations around the edges.

Have you ever installed a special appref-ms file on Microsoft Windows?

I once installed "this thing" on my system, but is it a program or app
or something that Microsoft seems to be calling an "appref-ms" instead? https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/tree/main?tab=readme-ov-file#readme https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/releases/download/2.0.0/release.zip

It created a shortcut whose target is an "*.appref-ms", whatever that is.
C:\path_to\AndroidMic.appref-ms

A search on "*.appref-ms" shows it's something strange to Microsoft. https://extensionfile.net/open/appref-ms/ https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10766334/how-to-find-the-target-exe-file-of-appref-ms
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/some-programs-have-been-converted-to-appref-ms/4c8f1628-7208-41c4-be09-d6675ad6d33b

But what is it?
Is it a program? A widget? An app?

Or something new, called an "appref-ms"?

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On 2/7/2024 10:48 PM, Andrew wrote:

Paul wrote on Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:06:45 -0500 :

The only Widget sample I have on my system, is News and Interests,
which is an App without App decorations around the edges.

Have you ever installed a special appref-ms file on Microsoft Windows?

I once installed "this thing" on my system, but is it a program or app
or something that Microsoft seems to be calling an "appref-ms" instead? https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/tree/main?tab=readme-ov-file#readme https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/releases/download/2.0.0/release.zip

It created a shortcut whose target is an "*.appref-ms", whatever that is.
C:\path_to\AndroidMic.appref-ms

A search on "*.appref-ms" shows it's something strange to Microsoft. https://extensionfile.net/open/appref-ms/ https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10766334/how-to-find-the-target-exe-file-of-appref-ms
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/some-programs-have-been-converted-to-appref-ms/4c8f1628-7208-41c4-be09-d6675ad6d33b

But what is it?
Is it a program? A widget? An app?

Or something new, called an "appref-ms"?

https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/blob/main/Windows/Experimental/Experimental.csproj

<ItemGroup>
<None Include="App.config" />
<None Include="packages.config" />
</ItemGroup>

The latency through the regular audio profile on Bluetooth,
is something like 245 milliseconds. There is a newer audio profile
with a 40 millisecond latency, but this is basically never
going to happen on any "ordinary" Windows computer (the Windows
profile support is never going to have that, not ever). It's possible
a third party BT stack could have it.

Microsoft likes to keep redefining how application manifests are
stored. Maybe the file you reference, has something to do with that.

Paul

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Paul wrote on Thu, 8 Feb 2024 00:20:33 -0500 :

https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/blob/main/Windows/Experimental/Experimental.csproj

<ItemGroup>
<None Include="App.config" />
<None Include="packages.config" />
</ItemGroup>

I wish I understood what you wrote, but I simply do not.
I just wanted to know what this brand new Microsoft "appref-ms" file stuff is.

When I installed AndroidMic, the application went somewhere
but I still don't know where it installed itself because the
shortcut isn't like any shortcut I've ever seen before.

This is what the shortcut three tabs look like. https://i.postimg.cc/vThHc47t/appref-ms.jpg

First of all the shortcut has no TARGET.
It has a General, Security & Details tab.

The shortcut simply has a "Location" in the "General" tab. C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\User Pinned\TaskBar

The shortcut has an "Object name" in the "Security" tab. C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\User Pinned\TaskBar\AndroidMic.appref-ms

The shortcut has that "Location" again in the "Details" tab. C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\User Pinned\TaskBar

The latency through the regular audio profile on Bluetooth,
is something like 245 milliseconds.

For this question, what the application does, doesn't matter.
The question is what the heck is an "appref-ms" file anyway?

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What is an APPREF-MS file?
Application reference file used by ClickOnce, a Microsoft platform used to deploy and run remote Web applications; contains a local or remote link to
an application; commonly used to enable links from the Windows Start Menu.

More Information
APPREF-MS file and their corresponding .APPLICATION files are enabled by the Microsoft .NET framework. When an APPREF-MS file is activated from a Web hyperlink, ClickOnce can check for updates, make installations, and run a program.

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shemp13@outlook.com wrote on Thu, 8 Feb 2024 15:53:58 GMT :

What is an APPREF-MS file?
Application reference file used by ClickOnce, a Microsoft platform used to deploy and run remote Web applications; contains a local or remote link to
an application; commonly used to enable links from the Windows Start Menu.

More Information
APPREF-MS file and their corresponding .APPLICATION files are enabled by the Microsoft .NET framework. When an APPREF-MS file is activated from a Web hyperlink, ClickOnce can check for updates, make installations, and run a program.

Yes. Thanks. I saw that from the original post links I had provided. https://extensionfile.net/open/appref-ms/

But that isn't in a human-readable form, at least not to me it isn't.

It's kind of like a pure technical dictionary meaning.
Versus using the word in context of installation of another app.

For example, I had never heard of "ClickOnce" until I wrote this thread.
Does anyone here have experience with ClickOnce with any other app?

If someone has experience with other appref-ms/clickonce installations,
your experience will be helpful for me (& others) to better understand it.

What experience have others had with appref-ms/clickonce installations?

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On 2/8/2024 11:03 AM, Andrew wrote:

shemp13@outlook.com wrote on Thu, 8 Feb 2024 15:53:58 GMT :

What is an APPREF-MS file?
Application reference file used by ClickOnce, a Microsoft platform used to >> deploy and run remote Web applications; contains a local or remote link to >> an application; commonly used to enable links from the Windows Start Menu. >>
More Information
APPREF-MS file and their corresponding .APPLICATION files are enabled by the >> Microsoft .NET framework. When an APPREF-MS file is activated from a Web
hyperlink, ClickOnce can check for updates, make installations, and run a
program.

Yes. Thanks. I saw that from the original post links I had provided. https://extensionfile.net/open/appref-ms/

But that isn't in a human-readable form, at least not to me it isn't.

It's kind of like a pure technical dictionary meaning.
Versus using the word in context of installation of another app.

For example, I had never heard of "ClickOnce" until I wrote this thread.
Does anyone here have experience with ClickOnce with any other app?

If someone has experience with other appref-ms/clickonce installations,
your experience will be helpful for me (& others) to better understand it.

What experience have others had with appref-ms/clickonce installations?

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10766334/how-to-find-the-target-exe-file-of-appref-ms

It's apparently a ClickOnce App.

[Picture] ... of the stackoverflow page

https://i.postimg.cc/dV5Ld83L/click-once-appref.gif

Apps need the ability to update.

sideload (winget)
App Store (microsoftstore)
ClickOnce (essentially a private store, for your updates)

The appref-ms gives the ability to store a URL or similar,
and when the application starts, it checks for updates.

Otherwise, the App part works the usual ways, using its manifest
for loading, using certain (permission denied) areas for
component storage. This is what makes study of the construction,
searching for the gubbins, hard to do.

You can always use nfi.exe to list the component parts.
That's how I'd do it, if I needed "component part" info.

Paul

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Paul wrote on Thu, 8 Feb 2024 12:49:33 -0500 :

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10766334/how-to-find-the-target-exe-file-of-appref-ms

Yes. Thanks. I had already read that before I posted the question.
You can see that link in the original post.

I read every link found before I asked the question here.
If I had found the answer on the Internet, I wouldn't have asked here.

In particular, that link doesn't answer the question of what the thing is.
It answers the question of how to find the executable which I did try.

It's apparently a ClickOnce App.

What does that mean when EVERY app is a click once app.
How's that different from a double click once app?

[Picture] ... of the stackoverflow page
https://i.postimg.cc/dV5Ld83L/click-once-appref.gif

Yes. I saw that BEFORE I posted. It answers a different question.
It's not asking what it is but where it went.

I did look at where it went though, which is here. C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\N0AR711Q.1VA\PRHK4WQY.TYG\andr..tion_0000000000000000_0002.0000_0bbee2d2e624354e\AndroidMic.exe
(and yes, those doubledots are really there, as can be seen here) https://i.postimg.cc/ZRn4VZdT/clickonce.jpg

Apparently this strange appref-ms thing installed into an AppData folder. https://i.postimg.cc/Qxt11WtP/appdata.jpg

Where if you dig down deep enough you finally find the executable. https://i.postimg.cc/rsdyFcVh/androidmic.jpg

Doesn't this "appref-ms" thing from Microsoft seem strange to you?

Apps need the ability to update.

All apps have the ability to update, whether they're click once or click
twice apps. So that doesn't tell us anything.

sideload (winget)
App Store (microsoftstore)
ClickOnce (essentially a private store, for your updates)

The appref-ms gives the ability to store a URL or similar,
and when the application starts, it checks for updates.

All apps can do that.
Whether or not they're these strange new Microsoft appref-ms things.

Otherwise, the App part works the usual ways, using its manifest
for loading, using certain (permission denied) areas for
component storage. This is what makes study of the construction,
searching for the gubbins, hard to do.

You can always use nfi.exe to list the component parts.
That's how I'd do it, if I needed "component part" info.

I don't have nfi.exe on my system as it's not native to Windows.
But I googled for it and see that it's described over here. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/resources/archive/v02n05

"Microsoft has released a free tool named NFI (NTFS Information) that understands and can dump the internal structures of NTFS volumes.
You can download NFI as part of the OEM Support Tools at http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q253/0/66.asp. Running NFI with a file name dumps the NTFS MFT record for that file."

From that I can tell it's not going to explain to me in human
understandable terms what these very strange new "appref-ms" files are.

What would be nice is if someone can look in their similar folder C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\N0AR711Q.1VA\PRHK4WQY.TYG

And let me know what other apps they have installed which turned
out to be one of these brand new but very strange "appref-ms" things.

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Andrew wrote:

Doesn't this "appref-ms" thing from Microsoft seem strange to you?.

I'm tempted to file it under "Modern apps" and accept the don't really
want humans to understand how it all hangs together any longer.

What would be nice is if someone can look in their similar folder C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\N0AR711Q.1VA\PRHK4WQY.TYG

And let me know what other apps they have installed which turned
out to be one of these brand new but very strange "appref-ms" things.

I have "C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\CX4NKDB8.9YL\2D70C5C9.D2W"
but it's empty, apart from a manifests folder.

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Andy Burns wrote on Thu, 8 Feb 2024 19:09:46 +0000 :

What would be nice is if someone can look in their similar folder
C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\N0AR711Q.1VA\PRHK4WQY.TYG

And let me know what other apps they have installed which turned
out to be one of these brand new but very strange "appref-ms" things.

I have "C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\CX4NKDB8.9YL\2D70C5C9.D2W"
but it's empty, apart from a manifests folder.

That's good to know. Thanks for checking. I am surprised you have it too.

However, with only two datapoints it's hard to surmise much, but I'm going
to guess that anyone with a similar folder has run across one of these new fangled appref-ms "modern apps" that they don't want us to know about. "C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\."

If only we knew what these new fangled "appref-ms" modern apps are...

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On 2/8/2024 1:24 PM, Andrew wrote:

Paul wrote on Thu, 8 Feb 2024 12:49:33 -0500 :

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10766334/how-to-find-the-target-exe-file-of-appref-ms

Yes. Thanks. I had already read that before I posted the question.
You can see that link in the original post.

I read every link found before I asked the question here.
If I had found the answer on the Internet, I wouldn't have asked here.

In particular, that link doesn't answer the question of what the thing is.
It answers the question of how to find the executable which I did try.

It's apparently a ClickOnce App.

What does that mean when EVERY app is a click once app.
How's that different from a double click once app?

[Picture] ... of the stackoverflow page
https://i.postimg.cc/dV5Ld83L/click-once-appref.gif

Yes. I saw that BEFORE I posted. It answers a different question.
It's not asking what it is but where it went.

I did look at where it went though, which is here. C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\N0AR711Q.1VA\PRHK4WQY.TYG\andr..tion_0000000000000000_0002.0000_0bbee2d2e624354e\AndroidMic.exe
(and yes, those doubledots are really there, as can be seen here) https://i.postimg.cc/ZRn4VZdT/clickonce.jpg

Apparently this strange appref-ms thing installed into an AppData folder. https://i.postimg.cc/Qxt11WtP/appdata.jpg

Where if you dig down deep enough you finally find the executable. https://i.postimg.cc/rsdyFcVh/androidmic.jpg

Doesn't this "appref-ms" thing from Microsoft seem strange to you?

Apps need the ability to update.

All apps have the ability to update, whether they're click once or click twice apps. So that doesn't tell us anything.

sideload (winget)
App Store (microsoftstore)
ClickOnce (essentially a private store, for your updates)

The appref-ms gives the ability to store a URL or similar,
and when the application starts, it checks for updates.

All apps can do that.
Whether or not they're these strange new Microsoft appref-ms things.

Otherwise, the App part works the usual ways, using its manifest
for loading, using certain (permission denied) areas for
component storage. This is what makes study of the construction,
searching for the gubbins, hard to do.

You can always use nfi.exe to list the component parts.
That's how I'd do it, if I needed "component part" info.

I don't have nfi.exe on my system as it's not native to Windows.
But I googled for it and see that it's described over here. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/resources/archive/v02n05

"Microsoft has released a free tool named NFI (NTFS Information) that understands and can dump the internal structures of NTFS volumes.
You can download NFI as part of the OEM Support Tools at http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q253/0/66.asp. Running NFI with a file name dumps the NTFS MFT record for that file."

From that I can tell it's not going to explain to me in human
understandable terms what these very strange new "appref-ms" files are.

What would be nice is if someone can look in their similar folder C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\N0AR711Q.1VA\PRHK4WQY.TYG

And let me know what other apps they have installed which turned
out to be one of these brand new but very strange "appref-ms" things.

This is the only file on the test VM of that type, after installing AndroidMic there.

File 7089
\Users\Bullwinkle\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Teamclouday\AndroidMic.appref-ms
$STANDARD_INFORMATION (resident) \
$FILE_NAME (resident) \
$FILE_NAME (resident) \____ Resident means, fits it lives in a 1024 byte $MFT slot, max 700 bytes or thereabouts
$DATA (resident) /

Had to get at it from WSL. In Windows, the extension will not display. Attempting to
edit the entry, just defaces the filename portion of filename.ext . However, from
WSL, I am "allowed" to display the real name. Now, we just cat it.

/mnt/d$ file AndroidMic.appref-ms
AndroidMic.appref-ms: Little-endian UTF-16 Unicode text, with no line terminators

This is the content.

file:///C:/Users/Bullwinkle/Downloads/release--androidmic/release/Windows/AndroidMic.application
#AndroidMic.application, Culture=en, PublicKeyToken=0000000000000000, processorArchitecture=msil

That points to a file in the unpacked installer directory I used. I'm guessing it's a good idea to keep that folder around ?

AndroidMic.application 1,926 bytes

/mntd$ file AndroidMic.application
AndroidMic.application: XML 1.0 document, UTF-8 Unicode (with BOM) text, with very long lines, with CRLF line terminators

ClickOnce Application Support Library [ what opens a .application ]

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<asmv1:assembly xsi:schemaLocation="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1 assembly.adaptive.xsd"
manifestVersion="1.0" xmlns:asmv1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1"
xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v2" xmlns:asmv2="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v2"
xmlns:xrml="urn:mpeg:mpeg21:2003:01-REL-R-NS" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xmlns:asmv3="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v3" xmlns:dsig="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#"
xmlns:co.v1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:clickonce.v1" xmlns:co.v2="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:clickonce.v2">
<assemblyIdentity name="AndroidMic.application" version="2.0.0.0" publicKeyToken="0000000000000000"
language="en" processorArchitecture="msil" xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1" />
<description asmv2:publisher="Teamclouday" asmv2:product="AndroidMic"
asmv2:supportUrl="https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic" xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1" />
<deployment install="true" mapFileExtensions="true" />
<compatibleFrameworks xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:clickonce.v2">
<framework targetVersion="4.7.2" profile="Full" supportedRuntime="4.0.30319" />
</compatibleFrameworks>
<dependency>
<dependentAssembly dependencyType="install"
codebase="Application Files\AndroidMic_2_0_0_0\AndroidMic.exe.manifest" size="18338">
<assemblyIdentity name="AndroidMic.exe" version="2.0.0.0" publicKeyToken="0000000000000000"
language="en" processorArchitecture="msil" type="win32" />
<hash>
<dsig:Transforms>
<dsig:Transform Algorithm="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:HashTransforms.Identity" />
</dsig:Transforms>
<dsig:DigestMethod Algorithm="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#sha256" />
<dsig:DigestValue>mdsUreDH9SUF2xFb6Ig86FKgRB5EKoH9N6udG3uWHrk=</dsig:DigestValue>
</hash>
</dependentAssembly>
</dependency>
</asmv1:assembly>

[Picture] Runtime behavior...

https://i.postimg.cc/fknYTv9g/androidmic-startup.gif

Paul

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Paul wrote:

https://i.postimg.cc/fknYTv9g/androidmic-startup.gif

Ah, that's the second stretched image you've posted recently, the first
time was the screenshot of disk manager you managed to extract as a
binary attachment for someone, so I assumed it was an artefact of having
to piece the image back together, and didn't mention it.

But this one is a screenshot from your own system, it works ok if I
click to zoom the image, but postimage is badly mangling the non-zoomed
version ...

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On 2/8/2024 10:03 PM, Andy Burns wrote:

Paul wrote:

https://i.postimg.cc/fknYTv9g/androidmic-startup.gif

Ah, that's the second stretched image you've posted recently, the first time was the screenshot of disk manager you managed to extract as a binary attachment for someone, so I assumed it was an artefact of having to piece the image back together, and

didn't mention it.

But this one is a screenshot from your own system, it works ok if I click to zoom the image, but postimage is badly mangling the non-zoomed version ...

Correct.

In all cases, you must use your "craft" to get something
from the exercise.

Unfortunately.

The other sites I might use, also present challenges,
so it's not like any site is "righteous".

"Download original image" is available as an option,
no matter how they degrade the default image.

Paul

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On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:13:30 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 2/8/2024 10:03 PM, Andy Burns wrote:

Paul wrote:

https://i.postimg.cc/fknYTv9g/androidmic-startup.gif

Ah, that's the second stretched image you've posted recently, the first time was the screenshot of disk manager you managed to extract as a binary attachment for someone, so I assumed it was an artefact of having to piece the image back together, and

didn't mention it.

But this one is a screenshot from your own system, it works ok if I click to zoom the image, but postimage is badly mangling the non-zoomed version ...

Correct.

In all cases, you must use your "craft" to get something
from the exercise.

Unfortunately.

The other sites I might use, also present challenges,
so it's not like any site is "righteous".

"Download original image" is available as an option,
no matter how they degrade the default image.

If things get bad enough with the image hosting sites, we might have to go back to how we did it for 30 years - by posting the image to Usenet, typically to a garbage group such as alt.binaries.test, and including the MID in the text post.
I assume most, if not all, NNTP clients know how to open a MID. The downside is that you lose the advertising that comes with the web-based sites.

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On 2/10/2024 8:41 PM, Char Jackson wrote:

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:13:30 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 2/8/2024 10:03 PM, Andy Burns wrote:

Paul wrote:

https://i.postimg.cc/fknYTv9g/androidmic-startup.gif

Ah, that's the second stretched image you've posted recently, the first time was the screenshot of disk manager you managed to extract as a binary attachment for someone, so I assumed it was an artefact of having to piece the image back together, and

didn't mention it.

But this one is a screenshot from your own system, it works ok if I click to zoom the image, but postimage is badly mangling the non-zoomed version ...

Correct.

In all cases, you must use your "craft" to get something
from the exercise.

Unfortunately.

The other sites I might use, also present challenges,
so it's not like any site is "righteous".

"Download original image" is available as an option,
no matter how they degrade the default image.

If things get bad enough with the image hosting sites, we might have to go back
to how we did it for 30 years - by posting the image to Usenet, typically to a
garbage group such as alt.binaries.test, and including the MID in the text post.
I assume most, if not all, NNTP clients know how to open a MID. The downside is
that you lose the advertising that comes with the web-based sites.

Yes, on E-S there is a group for that purpose.

However, depending on the size of the picture (I can do 10000 x 10000 on PostImage),
the attachment may be too big for a USENET post on some of the servers.

And yes, obviously I could go "full rogue" and use a binary chopper and
send it that way, and then a certain filter would open up with a
fifty caliber and none of my posts would go anywhere :-)

I would consider leaving posti... if the domain disappeared :-)

Paul

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On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 21:21:54 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 2/10/2024 8:41 PM, Char Jackson wrote:

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:13:30 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 2/8/2024 10:03 PM, Andy Burns wrote:

Paul wrote:

https://i.postimg.cc/fknYTv9g/androidmic-startup.gif

Ah, that's the second stretched image you've posted recently, the first time was the screenshot of disk manager you managed to extract as a binary attachment for someone, so I assumed it was an artefact of having to piece the image back together,

and didn't mention it.

But this one is a screenshot from your own system, it works ok if I click to zoom the image, but postimage is badly mangling the non-zoomed version ...

Correct.

In all cases, you must use your "craft" to get something
from the exercise.

Unfortunately.

The other sites I might use, also present challenges,
so it's not like any site is "righteous".

"Download original image" is available as an option,
no matter how they degrade the default image.

If things get bad enough with the image hosting sites, we might have to go back
to how we did it for 30 years - by posting the image to Usenet, typically to a
garbage group such as alt.binaries.test, and including the MID in the text post.
I assume most, if not all, NNTP clients know how to open a MID. The downside is
that you lose the advertising that comes with the web-based sites.

Yes, on E-S there is a group for that purpose.

However, depending on the size of the picture (I can do 10000 x 10000 on PostImage),
the attachment may be too big for a USENET post on some of the servers.

And yes, obviously I could go "full rogue" and use a binary chopper and
send it that way, and then a certain filter would open up with a
fifty caliber and none of my posts would go anywhere :-)

I would consider leaving posti... if the domain disappeared :-)

I've never used E-S. It sounds awful. :-)
Just kidding, I'm sure it's fine in its own way.

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* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)