On 2023-11-10 03:45, Wally J wrote:

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

The problem isn't the cost to your pocket, but the cost to your privacy.

ROTFL!

I've studied people like you for years, who act like dumb sheep, Carlos.
I think it's interesting you can't even comprehend the subject of privacy.

You don't understand it.
So you ridicule it.

Do you know why you ridiculed the adult concept of privacy, Carlos?
I do.

Arlen, you are a paranoid.

Probably, you also don't buy anything online because they will know who
you are. You only pay cash.

GOD ALMIGHTY, you are MAD! You are ready to be interned in a mad house! Paranoid mad!

Not wanting to use an internet service, handled by a helpful individual, because he will know your real name!

OH MY GOD! DISASTER! I WILl BE KNOWN AND RECOGNIZED!


So what, Arlen? You know my real name, too. What is the problem? I don't
hide.


Or you are a criminal sought by justice internationally.

Or you are on the FBI protection scheme, hiding from the mafia. Do they
know you write on internet?


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

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"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| Probably, you also don't buy anything online because they will know who
| you are. You only pay cash.
|

I avoid buying online. And I avoid charge cards. I use
them. I have 3. But I only use them for certain things.
Mostly work expenses. I also use them for things where
there's no other realistic option, like automatic payment
for web hosting.

I don't shop online in general. I don't support Amazon,
for privacy and monopoly reasons. I haven't bought a
newsgroup account for the same reason. I don't use
Paypal or other superfluous payment systems, like debit
cards. It's just giving more money to middlemen. But
Paypal is also a special case for me. Back when I was
selling my own shareware, Paypal started offering accounts
to developers to take payment. The developer had to open
a bank account under their control. Paypal was frequently
freezing the account, sometimes due to customer complaints,
sometimes for reasons unknown.

I'd be happy to
mail a usenet server company a $10 bill for an anonymous
account, but the vast majority of businesses are simply
incompetent and ignorant when it comes to security.
There's far too much data online that doesn't belong there.

I don't see any reason to trust so much automation.
It's not just about privacy. It's also about the hacks that
we hear about, and the many that we don't. If you give
out info, credit card numbers, etc. then that info can be sold,
but it also may be stolen. Here are three cases just this week:

A plastic surgeon got hacked and naked photos of customers
ended up online. They're suing:

https://www.bitdefender.com/blog/hotforsecurity/women-sue-plastic-surgery-after-hack-saw-their-naked-photos-posted-online/

Detailed personal info from US military personnel is being
sold for pennies by "databrokers":

https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/07/data_brokers_military_data/

The US FTC had to fight in court to release information
about their investigation into Kochava, a datamining company
that buys info from the likes of cellphone app makers and
then sells it to anyone who will pay -- mostly advertisers.
Typical data will include your physical location in real time,
all the time. That, in turn, leads to a collection of data regarding
religion, politics, social life, shopping habits, and so on.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/11/data-brokers-staggering-sale-of-sensitive-info-exposed-in-unsealed-ftc-filing/

Were you unaware that datamining has become a massive
industry? Everyone makes their choice about how to deal with
the increasing automation and the barely recognized criminal
possibilities it opens up. To opt for maximum privacy is
not paranoid. To opt for convenience as you've done is not
unreasonable. But there are costs with either choice.

I'm wondering why we haven't had any blockbuster disaster
movies yet about how the whole world goes automated, then
Marxist terrorists play the ultimate Robin Hood, randomly
reassigning bank accounts and deeds, quickly leading to world
war. How does humanity carry on with civilization when
relationships, ownership, law, history and such are all run
by computers, with no element of personal trust? And that's
not even bringing AI into the picture. I'm just talking about a
world here trust is no longer possible because the only truth
is database contents. If your house deed is transferred to someone
else and the history of it altered, you won't be able to have
your city clerk arrested. No one will be answerable. Only the
database will hold evidence of the facts. Reality
itself will become undefinable. (If some Hollywood mogul uses
my idea, you're my witness that I came up with it first. :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-11-10 15:14, Newyana2 wrote:

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| Probably, you also don't buy anything online because they will know who
| you are. You only pay cash.
|

I avoid buying online. And I avoid charge cards. I use
them. I have 3. But I only use them for certain things.
Mostly work expenses. I also use them for things where
there's no other realistic option, like automatic payment
for web hosting.

That's a very limited life.

There are many things I get now online which are simply impossible to
buy elsewhere.

I don't shop online in general. I don't support Amazon,
for privacy and monopoly reasons. I haven't bought a
newsgroup account for the same reason. I don't use
Paypal or other superfluous payment systems, like debit
cards. It's just giving more money to middlemen. But
Paypal is also a special case for me. Back when I was
selling my own shareware, Paypal started offering accounts
to developers to take payment. The developer had to open
a bank account under their control. Paypal was frequently
freezing the account, sometimes due to customer complaints,
sometimes for reasons unknown.

I'd be happy to
mail a usenet server company a $10 bill for an anonymous
account, but the vast majority of businesses are simply
incompetent and ignorant when it comes to security.
There's far too much data online that doesn't belong there.

I don't see any reason to trust so much automation.
It's not just about privacy. It's also about the hacks that
we hear about, and the many that we don't. If you give
out info, credit card numbers, etc. then that info can be sold,
but it also may be stolen. Here are three cases just this week:

Heh, Individual.NET doesn't accept payment by card, but by bank
transfer. In the EU, even knowing the bank account data of someone
doesn't allow anyone to extract money from it. Organizations do publish
their bank account number on Internet, no problem.

In the case that Individual.NET is hacked or suffers a traditional
robbery, they don't get any data from me that is secret. There would be
no privacy breach.


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-11-10 15:14, Newyana2 wrote:

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| Probably, you also don't buy anything online because they will know who
| you are. You only pay cash.

I avoid buying online. And I avoid charge cards. I use
them. I have 3. But I only use them for certain things.
Mostly work expenses. I also use them for things where
there's no other realistic option, like automatic payment
for web hosting.

That's a very limited life.

There are many things I get now online which are simply impossible to
buy elsewhere.

Same here. Perhaps not that many and some are not impossible but much
more convenient.

I just don't understand this extreme reluctance (fear?) for a rather
safe way of doing business.

Perhaps it's - at least partly - a US thing, with much less restricted
/ absent privacy laws, less secure payment systems, etc..

For me, an online purchase at a 'local' webshop is not any less
secure than an in-person purchase in a shop (unless it's a small item
which I can take home myself (and I pay with cash)). If I pay by card,
it's the same 'risk' as online. If the item needs to be delivered, it's
the same 'risk' as online.

The only risk assesment needed, is if I can trust the webshop. But
that also goes for physical shop, trader, etc..

[More of the same deleted.]

I'd be happy to
mail a usenet server company a $10 bill for an anonymous
account, but the vast majority of businesses are simply
incompetent and ignorant when it comes to security.
There's far too much data online that doesn't belong there.

I don't see any reason to trust so much automation.
It's not just about privacy. It's also about the hacks that
we hear about, and the many that we don't. If you give
out info, credit card numbers, etc. then that info can be sold,
but it also may be stolen. Here are three cases just this week:

Heh, Individual.NET doesn't accept payment by card,

But they can be paid via Paypal, which he doesn't like for the reasons
he gave.

but by bank
transfer. In the EU, even knowing the bank account data of someone
doesn't allow anyone to extract money from it. Organizations do publish
their bank account number on Internet, no problem.

In the case that Individual.NET is hacked or suffers a traditional
robbery, they don't get any data from me that is secret. There would be
no privacy breach.

Exactly. It's as safe as any other bank transfer, which is very, very
safe in the EU.

I've just checked my News.Individual.Net data: The have my name - so
have you (plural)! :-) - a throw-away email address and my bank account
number (IBAN). They do *not* have my address, nor any other information.

My hairdresser has more information on me! :-)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/10/2023 11:01 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Perhaps it's - at least partly - a US thing, with much less restricted
/ absent privacy laws, less secure payment systems, etc..

For me, an online purchase at a 'local' webshop is not any less
secure than an in-person purchase in a shop (unless it's a small item
which I can take home myself (and I pay with cash)). If I pay by card,
it's the same 'risk' as online. If the item needs to be delivered, it's
the same 'risk' as online.

My local computer store is very secure. I cannot order anything online
from them, *unless I have a smart phone*. They are perfectly happy to accept
my credit card, if I visit in person. And it wasn't always that way, but it's that way now.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/11/2023 17:53, Paul wrote:

*unless I have a smart phone*.

Liar. A smart phone is no different from a desktop or laptop when
it comes to ordering things online. A smartphone is not necessary but
for some it is convenience because they are on it 24/7. If you meant ordering by phone then any phone can do the job. No smartphone necessary.

Why do you keep lying on these newsgroups. Aren't you ashamed of yourself? How old are you?.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-11-10 17:01, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-11-10 15:14, Newyana2 wrote:

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| Probably, you also don't buy anything online because they will know who >>> | you are. You only pay cash.

I avoid buying online. And I avoid charge cards. I use
them. I have 3. But I only use them for certain things.
Mostly work expenses. I also use them for things where
there's no other realistic option, like automatic payment
for web hosting.

That's a very limited life.

There are many things I get now online which are simply impossible to
buy elsewhere.

Same here. Perhaps not that many and some are not impossible but much
more convenient.

Coffee grinder, non electric.

There are no longer coffee grinders in the supermarkets I visit normally.

Just an example of something I bought recently online :-)

I probably can find one somewhere else in Madrid (which is not my usual
living place), but I might had to explore for days and expend a lot in
gasoline or buses.


The dust bags of my old vacuum cleaner. It is old, but I found a place somewhere in central Europe that had them.


A box with assorted glassware (dishes), of the exact same model as those
I have in my kitchen, so that I fill the broken ones with the same ones.

A little bag of 3.2A glass fuses.

A liquid that says repels fog in the car window (not tried yet), after
reading the comments pro and con of different people on different makes.

A small multimeter that runs on AAA batteries.

A small IR body temperature thermometer that runs on AAA bateries.

A DVD + CD + Book with songs for kids, obtained in a day and a half; I
had asked for the same one at a prestiguous shopping place here, which
failed to deliver after promising "this weekend", then said two weeks (I
was travelling across the pong in 3 days and needed it as a present, fast).

I just don't understand this extreme reluctance (fear?) for a rather
safe way of doing business.

Right.

Perhaps it's - at least partly - a US thing, with much less restricted
/ absent privacy laws, less secure payment systems, etc..

Possible.

For me, an online purchase at a 'local' webshop is not any less
secure than an in-person purchase in a shop (unless it's a small item
which I can take home myself (and I pay with cash)). If I pay by card,
it's the same 'risk' as online. If the item needs to be delivered, it's
the same 'risk' as online.

And with some vendors, we can have the goods delivered at an
intermediary place, so the delivery chap doesn't see my home :-p

The only risk assesment needed, is if I can trust the webshop. But
that also goes for physical shop, trader, etc..

Right.

[More of the same deleted.]

I'd be happy to
mail a usenet server company a $10 bill for an anonymous
account, but the vast majority of businesses are simply
incompetent and ignorant when it comes to security.
There's far too much data online that doesn't belong there.

I don't see any reason to trust so much automation.
It's not just about privacy. It's also about the hacks that
we hear about, and the many that we don't. If you give
out info, credit card numbers, etc. then that info can be sold,
but it also may be stolen. Here are three cases just this week:

Heh, Individual.NET doesn't accept payment by card,

But they can be paid via Paypal, which he doesn't like for the reasons
he gave.

Well, we have a choice of methods.

I don't like Paypal too much, but a few times I have to use it.

For instance, to park on the street of Madrid on areas with metered
parking, I can pay with cash (first I have to find a meter post, fight
its interface, pay, get the paper slip, go back to my car to place the
slip). Or pay with a third party app. Do I trust that third party to
have my debit card on record (for multiple payments), or is it
preferable to use Paypal?

Grmpfff...

but by bank
transfer. In the EU, even knowing the bank account data of someone
doesn't allow anyone to extract money from it. Organizations do publish
their bank account number on Internet, no problem.

In the case that Individual.NET is hacked or suffers a traditional
robbery, they don't get any data from me that is secret. There would be
no privacy breach.

Exactly. It's as safe as any other bank transfer, which is very, very
safe in the EU.

I've just checked my News.Individual.Net data: The have my name - so
have you (plural)! :-) - a throw-away email address and my bank account number (IBAN). They do *not* have my address, nor any other information.

My hairdresser has more information on me! :-)

:-D


Many online places ask a lot more data.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/10/2023 1:04 PM, Jack wrote:

On 10/11/2023 17:53, Paul wrote:

*unless I have a smart phone*.

Liar. A smart phone is no different from a desktop or laptop when
it comes to ordering things online. A smartphone is not necessary but
for some it is convenience because they are on it 24/7. If you meant ordering by phone then any phone can do the job. No smartphone necessary.

Why do you keep lying on these newsgroups. Aren't you ashamed of yourself? How old are you?.

A smartphone is a form of authentication, that is all.

I even talked to the commerce support (who have nothing to do
with the local stores), and they were insistent they needed authentication.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-11-10 19:04, Jack wrote:

On 10/11/2023 17:53, Paul wrote:

*unless I have a smart phone*.

Liar. A smart phone is no different from a desktop or laptop when
it comes to ordering things online. A smartphone is not necessary but
for some it is convenience because they are on it 24/7. If you meant ordering by phone then any phone can do the job. No smartphone necessary.

Why do you keep lying on these newsgroups. Aren't you ashamed of yourself? How old are you?.

Huh?

Telling Paul of all people, that he lies?

My bank requires people to have a smartphone, for remote identification purposes. It is quite normal. And often, they also insist on us
installing and configuring the bank app on the phone.

Without it, I can not connect on my computer to the bank.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

Telling Paul of all people, that he lies?

I agree with anyone who posits a sensible opinion, where I fully and
heartily agree with Carlos that Paul is one of the most reputable people on this newsgroup - and one of the most helpful - and better yet - one who has
a _sensible_ assessment of the facts (usually cynically so, for good
reason).

Paul throws a bit of cynical humor when needed, which is maybe why that
person thought Paul was telling a lie about needing to use 2FA/MFA (some
day I'll figure out what the difference is as I use neither).

The only "authentication" I use is OAUth which Google forced us to use when logging into a Google account using Thunderbird or the smartphone.

My bank requires people to have a smartphone, for remote identification purposes. It is quite normal. And often, they also insist on us
installing and configuring the bank app on the phone.
Without it, I can not connect on my computer to the bank.

While I think the instant you put 2FA/MFA on your phone, or a bank app, the phone immediately becomes radioactive in that you have to guard it from
others for the rest of your life - I do perfectly fine without ever having
set up 2FA or MFA on my phone thank you.

The instant you put anything financial on the Internet or on your phone,
the entire atmosphere needs to be treated forever as if it's radioactive.

Me?

I don't even have a PIN or any biometrics on any of my mobile devices.
Nor do I have a password on my PC.

Why would I need it?
I've said many times (figuratively so) that I don't live in the slums.

Whom am I afraid of?
My wife?
My kids?
My grandchildren?
My relatives?
My friends?
My neighbors?

Who?

I always wonder what kind of people put biometric gimmicks on their phone,
and I feel sorry for them because using biometrics means they live in the
slums (or that they fear the kind of person who grew up in the projects).

I'm far more likely to be attacked from the Internet than from my own home (which is why I almost never buy software because not only does software
almost never need to be purchased if you're intelligent and knowledgeable,
but the instant you purchase something online - your privacy is toast).

This has been a personal opinion (otherwise known as a factual assessment).

No animals were hurt in expressing these well-thought-out reasoned
assessments of facts (even as most people are like sheep led to slaughter).
--
The whole point of Usenet is to find people who know more than you do.
And to contribute to the overall tribal knowledge value of the newsgroup.
It's a domino effect where each of us helps the next person in the lineup.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/10/23 04:16, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Arlen, you are a paranoid.

Dude. Paranoids have enemies too. They
just find them quicker than regular folks.

Please do not go picking fights on this group.

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On 2023-11-11 07:28, T wrote:

On 11/10/23 04:16, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Arlen, you are a paranoid.

Dude.  Paranoids have enemies too.  They
just find them quicker than regular folks.

Please do not go picking fights on this group.

He started...

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 15:58:03 +0100, "Carlos E. R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-11-10 15:14, Newyana2 wrote:

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| Probably, you also don't buy anything online because they will know who
| you are. You only pay cash.
|

I avoid buying online.

That's a very limited life.

I agree.

There are many things I get now online which are simply impossible to
buy elsewhere.

Same here. And besides those, I buy almost everything online because
it's much more convenient and saves me money.

Almost the only thing I shop for locally is fresh food.

And I avoid charge cards. I use
them. I have 3. But I only use them for certain things.
Mostly work expenses. I also use them for things where
there's no other realistic option, like automatic payment
for web hosting.

I use charge cards for almost everything, even for small payments. The
only exceptions are a couple of local vendors who do work for me and
don't take cards.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/11/23 04:01, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2023-11-11 07:28, T wrote:

On 11/10/23 04:16, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Arlen, you are a paranoid.

Dude.  Paranoids have enemies too.  They
just find them quicker than regular folks.

Please do not go picking fights on this group.

He started...

You did not have to respond

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-11-14 21:00, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

Frank Slootweg wrote:

I wouldn't know any reputable bank in NL

which uses a phone number - i.e. SMS message - for 2SV/2FA. It's
probably the same in most of the rest of the EU (and the UK).

Banco de Santander.

I probably worded it badly: A bank which offers *only* SMS for 2SV,
i.e. no other method, especially no other method for a *smartphone*,
which is the context of the discussion. Is there *such* a *reputable*
bank?

I have the Santander (aka BSCH) app, and yet I get the SMS. I just
opened the app, and looked for a configuration area. It is difficult to
find, in fact I was giving up when I noticed a "more options" in the
menu close to "bizum" and "contracts", and when tapping there I noticed
a "personal area" with a cog wheel (there is another "personal area" in
the main menu with different things inside).

Here I saw "configure the app". [...] I don't see anything about the sms messages. I have notifications active (so I get warnings about
witdrawals or payments), but nothing about sms.

So they intentionally use SMS and it is not a choice, unless there is
some entry on the web application.


Notice that the method of entry is a 4 digit PIN, which can be increased
to 8 digits (I did). Another bank uses 4 digits and can not be increased.

Santander UK also sends one-time codes to SMS number.

Barclays sends a confirmation question directly to their app, even when
one of their staff is dealing with you in-branch.

We have three main banks, 'system banks'. All three can do 2FA with
their respective smartphone apps. Two (the ones I use) - Rabobank and ABN-AMRO - can use their hardware TOTP (Time-based one-time password) generator, so you can use online banking on a computer and do not need a phone/phone-number. The third, ING, seems to only have a smartphone app, which you also need to use when doing online banking on a computer.
There seems to be no no-smartphone option, which seems a bit strange.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

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On 2023-11-15 09:35, Chris wrote:

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-11-15 01:44, Chris wrote:

R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:

Chris,

[...]

I had no idea what a CVV was, so I looked it up and got this :

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/find-credit-card-cvv-number

The most humorous part (in a very sad way) of it was this :

"When you provide this number for an online or phone purchase, the merchant
will submit the CVV when it authorizes the transaction. It's an attempt to >>>> verify that you have the physical card in your possession and that you're >>>> not just using stolen card information."

I cannot imagine how the merchant, on the other side of an online or phone >>>> connection, will be able to see that you have the bank card in your hands, >>>> and are infact "not just using stolen card information".

CVV codes are by definition not stored anywhere so cannot be stolen.

Huh.

When I make a purchase with Amazon, for instance, they ask for *all* the
data on the card, including the CVV, and they do store it, so that from
that day on I can make purchases with only a click.

That's your choice by enabling one-click, however, I've just added a new
card on my account and at no point does it ask for the CVV.

I did not enable one click. I have to enter my Amazon password at some
point in the purchase.

They just resubmit
my card data to my bank and get paid, with my permission. But if they
are bad guys, they could get money from any client, they have millions
of cards stored including their cvv numbers.

I suspect it's more that you've pre-authorised your card for purchases from Amazon with your bank. No storage of CVV is required.

When I added my card to Google Wallet they also asked for the CVV, AFAIR.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-11-15 09:35, Chris wrote:

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-11-15 01:44, Chris wrote:

R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:

Chris,

[...]

I had no idea what a CVV was, so I looked it up and got this :

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/find-credit-card-cvv-number

The most humorous part (in a very sad way) of it was this :

"When you provide this number for an online or phone purchase, the merchant
will submit the CVV when it authorizes the transaction. It's an attempt to
verify that you have the physical card in your possession and that you're >>>>> not just using stolen card information."

I cannot imagine how the merchant, on the other side of an online or phone
connection, will be able to see that you have the bank card in your hands,
and are infact "not just using stolen card information".

CVV codes are by definition not stored anywhere so cannot be stolen.

Huh.

When I make a purchase with Amazon, for instance, they ask for *all* the >>> data on the card, including the CVV, and they do store it, so that from
that day on I can make purchases with only a click.

That's your choice by enabling one-click, however, I've just added a new
card on my account and at no point does it ask for the CVV.

I did not enable one click. I have to enter my Amazon password at some
point in the purchase.

Then why did you say you "can make purchases with only a click"? Isn't that
one click?

They just resubmit
my card data to my bank and get paid, with my permission. But if they
are bad guys, they could get money from any client, they have millions
of cards stored including their cvv numbers.

I suspect it's more that you've pre-authorised your card for purchases from >> Amazon with your bank. No storage of CVV is required.

When I added my card to Google Wallet they also asked for the CVV, AFAIR.

That doesn't mean it's stored.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-11-15 23:40, Chris wrote:

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-11-15 09:35, Chris wrote:

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-11-15 01:44, Chris wrote:

R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:

Chris,

[...]

I had no idea what a CVV was, so I looked it up and got this :

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/find-credit-card-cvv-number

The most humorous part (in a very sad way) of it was this :

"When you provide this number for an online or phone purchase, the merchant
will submit the CVV when it authorizes the transaction. It's an attempt to
verify that you have the physical card in your possession and that you're
not just using stolen card information."

I cannot imagine how the merchant, on the other side of an online or phone
connection, will be able to see that you have the bank card in your hands,
and are infact "not just using stolen card information".

CVV codes are by definition not stored anywhere so cannot be stolen.

Huh.

When I make a purchase with Amazon, for instance, they ask for *all* the >>>> data on the card, including the CVV, and they do store it, so that from >>>> that day on I can make purchases with only a click.

That's your choice by enabling one-click, however, I've just added a new >>> card on my account and at no point does it ask for the CVV.

I did not enable one click. I have to enter my Amazon password at some
point in the purchase.

Then why did you say you "can make purchases with only a click"? Isn't that one click?

A click, a few clicks... who cares? :-)
The password I have to enter before that at some point.

If there is confusion, you ask and I clarify.

They just resubmit
my card data to my bank and get paid, with my permission. But if they
are bad guys, they could get money from any client, they have millions >>>> of cards stored including their cvv numbers.

I suspect it's more that you've pre-authorised your card for purchases from >>> Amazon with your bank. No storage of CVV is required.

When I added my card to Google Wallet they also asked for the CVV, AFAIR.

That doesn't mean it's stored.

Then why ask for it?

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-11-15 23:40, Chris wrote:

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-11-15 09:35, Chris wrote:

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-11-15 01:44, Chris wrote:

R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:

Chris,

[...]

I had no idea what a CVV was, so I looked it up and got this :

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/find-credit-card-cvv-number

The most humorous part (in a very sad way) of it was this :

"When you provide this number for an online or phone purchase, the merchant
will submit the CVV when it authorizes the transaction. It's an attempt to
verify that you have the physical card in your possession and that you're
not just using stolen card information."

I cannot imagine how the merchant, on the other side of an online or phone
connection, will be able to see that you have the bank card in your hands,
and are infact "not just using stolen card information".

CVV codes are by definition not stored anywhere so cannot be stolen. >>>>>

Huh.

When I make a purchase with Amazon, for instance, they ask for *all* the >>>>> data on the card, including the CVV, and they do store it, so that from >>>>> that day on I can make purchases with only a click.

That's your choice by enabling one-click, however, I've just added a new >>>> card on my account and at no point does it ask for the CVV.

I did not enable one click. I have to enter my Amazon password at some
point in the purchase.

Then why did you say you "can make purchases with only a click"? Isn't that >> one click?

A click, a few clicks... who cares? :-)
The password I have to enter before that at some point.

If there is confusion, you ask and I clarify.

They just resubmit
my card data to my bank and get paid, with my permission. But if they >>>>> are bad guys, they could get money from any client, they have millions >>>>> of cards stored including their cvv numbers.

I suspect it's more that you've pre-authorised your card for purchases from
Amazon with your bank. No storage of CVV is required.

When I added my card to Google Wallet they also asked for the CVV, AFAIR. >>

That doesn't mean it's stored.

Then why ask for it?

For added security/authorisation for "cardholder not present" transactions.
It is explicitly not stored so that database hacks can't expose it. https://www.howtogeek.com/728199/what-is-a-cvv-number-on-a-credit-card/

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