How come these files are not in EBCDIC order?
These are mailboxes from Forte Agent. They showed up in the wrong order
in Power Desk and when I looked in the win10 native file manager, the
order was the same.
I think this has 3 images where the file names start over, but there are
at least 3 more places further down that I didn't include. I hope the
line where it starts over is highlighted. It shows that it's sorted on
name
https://imgur.com/a/8HaksJZ
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
This is probably a dup. I don't understand imgur.
https://imgur.com/E1lLi7g
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:22:04 -0400, ? Mighty Wannabe ? <@.> wrote:
On 10/15/2023 7:55 AM, micky wrote:It's probably hard to see the little arrow in the middle of the name
How come these files are not in EBCDIC order?At the top row you see "Name", "Date modified". "Type", "Size" above
These are mailboxes from Forte Agent. They showed up in the wrong order >>> in Power Desk and when I looked in the win10 native file manager, the
order was the same.
I think this has 3 images where the file names start over, but there are >>> at least 3 more places further down that I didn't include. I hope the
line where it starts over is highlighted. It shows that it's sorted on
name
https://imgur.com/a/8HaksJZ
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
This is probably a dup. I don't understand imgur.
https://imgur.com/E1lLi7g
every column of data.
"Name" is above the first column. Have you tried clicking on the word
that says "Name" with your mouse pointer?
field at the top, but it is there and it is supposed to be sorted on
name. If I sort on another field and then do it by name again, it shows
the same strange order.
There could I suppose be some invisible character or undetectable
difference that affects the sorting, but these are all mailbox files and their indexes, all created by Forte-Agent newsreader, which was
originally written when 8.3 was the standard format for file names. I've
had Agent for 30 years and its file names have always been simple 8.3,
like 00001234.DAT or .idx. So I don't think there is any invisible character, or that there is an upper case 0 and a lower case 0, or some
other strange difference I'm not noticing.
On 10/15/2023 7:55 AM, micky wrote:
How come these files are not in EBCDIC order?
These are mailboxes from Forte Agent. They showed up in the wrong order
in Power Desk and when I looked in the win10 native file manager, the
order was the same.
I think this has 3 images where the file names start over, but there are
at least 3 more places further down that I didn't include. I hope the
line where it starts over is highlighted. It shows that it's sorted on
name
https://imgur.com/a/8HaksJZ
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
This is probably a dup. I don't understand imgur.
https://imgur.com/E1lLi7g
At the top row you see "Name", "Date modified". "Type", "Size" above
every column of data.
"Name" is above the first column. Have you tried clicking on the word
that says "Name" with your mouse pointer?
How come these files are not in EBCDIC order?
These are mailboxes from Forte Agent. They showed up in the wrong order
in Power Desk and when I looked in the win10 native file manager, the
order was the same.
I think this has 3 images where the file names start over, but there are
at least 3 more places further down that I didn't include. I hope the
line where it starts over is highlighted. It shows that it's sorted on
name
https://imgur.com/a/8HaksJZ
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
This is probably a dup. I don't understand imgur.
https://imgur.com/E1lLi7g
micky wrote:
How come these files are not in EBCDIC order?
Howdy, granpaw!
EBCDIC is a real ole character encodin' used on ancient IBM mainframe >computers last millenium. Even th' IBM PC released in 1981 did not use >EBCDIC. Y' muss be a real oldtimer like me, born an' raised befawr th' war.
These are mailboxes from Forte Agent. They showed up in the wrong order
in Power Desk and when I looked in the win10 native file manager, the
order was the same.
Thar ain't no version of Winders what uses EBCDIC. Winders uses ANSI, >Unicode, and OEM/DOS.
When y'ahr as ole as you and me is, it is easy fer us t'have a senior
moment about whether EBCDIC is used.
I think this has 3 images where the file names start over, but there are
at least 3 more places further down that I didn't include. I hope the
line where it starts over is highlighted. It shows that it's sorted on
name
https://imgur.com/a/8HaksJZ
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
Seems yawr real problem is sortin' file names in numerical vs.
alphabetical order. See this haire link:
<https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/91417-enable-disable-numerical-sorting-file-explorer-windows-10-a.html>
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
How come these files are not in EBCDIC order?
These are mailboxes from Forte Agent. They showed up in the wrong order
in Power Desk and when I looked in the win10 native file manager, the
order was the same.
I think this has 3 images where the file names start over, but there are
at least 3 more places further down that I didn't include. I hope the
line where it starts over is highlighted. It shows that it's sorted on
name
https://imgur.com/a/8HaksJZ
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
This is probably a dup. I don't understand imgur.
https://imgur.com/E1lLi7g
On 10/15/2023 9:17 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:22:04 -0400, ? Mighty
Wannabe ? <@.> wrote:
On 10/15/2023 7:55 AM, micky wrote:It's probably hard to see the little arrow in the middle of the name
How come these files are not in EBCDIC order?At the top row you see "Name", "Date modified". "Type", "Size" above
These are mailboxes from Forte Agent. They showed up in the wrong order >>>> in Power Desk and when I looked in the win10 native file manager, the
order was the same.
I think this has 3 images where the file names start over, but there are >>>> at least 3 more places further down that I didn't include. I hope the >>>> line where it starts over is highlighted. It shows that it's sorted on >>>> name
https://imgur.com/a/8HaksJZ
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
This is probably a dup. I don't understand imgur.
https://imgur.com/E1lLi7g
every column of data.
"Name" is above the first column. Have you tried clicking on the word
that says "Name" with your mouse pointer?
field at the top, but it is there and it is supposed to be sorted on
name. If I sort on another field and then do it by name again, it shows
the same strange order.
There could I suppose be some invisible character or undetectable
difference that affects the sorting, but these are all mailbox files and
their indexes, all created by Forte-Agent newsreader, which was
originally written when 8.3 was the standard format for file names. I've
had Agent for 30 years and its file names have always been simple 8.3,
like 00001234.DAT or .idx. So I don't think there is any invisible
character, or that there is an upper case 0 and a lower case 0, or some
other strange difference I'm not noticing.
Your Drive E probably is corrupted. You can see that your Drive E is repeated in the left folder pane.
If you are using Windows, then right-click on the drive in "My Computer" or "This PC" and choose "Properties", click on "Tools" tab, under "Error checking" click "Check".
You should always instruct Windows to "eject" your external drive before you pull the plug.
For one thing, Windows now works in the background, to remove
latent faults in the file system. This is why that dialog appears
saying "it doesn't appear there is a problem with your file system
but you can scan anyway". In the era of Windows XP, no such thing
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 15 Oct 2023 21:52:01 -0400, Second
Hundred Years <noreply@private.invalid> wrote:
micky wrote:
How come these files are not in EBCDIC order?
Howdy, granpaw!
EBCDIC is a real ole character encodin' used on ancient IBM mainframe
computers last millenium. Even th' IBM PC released in 1981 did not use
EBCDIC. Y' muss be a real oldtimer like me, born an' raised befawr th' war.
Well, born in early 1947. I was very pleased that I remembered EBCDIC, without even trying. So many words I can't remember even when I try
hard.
These are mailboxes from Forte Agent. They showed up in the wrong order >>> in Power Desk and when I looked in the win10 native file manager, the
order was the same.
Thar ain't no version of Winders what uses EBCDIC. Winders uses ANSI,
Unicode, and OEM/DOS.
How about that! What won't they think of next.
When y'ahr as ole as you and me is, it is easy fer us t'have a senior
moment about whether EBCDIC is used.
I think this has 3 images where the file names start over, but there are >>> at least 3 more places further down that I didn't include. I hope the
line where it starts over is highlighted. It shows that it's sorted on
name
https://imgur.com/a/8HaksJZ
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
Seems yawr real problem is sortin' file names in numerical vs.
alphabetical order. See this haire link:
<https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/91417-enable-disable-numerical-sorting-file-explorer-windows-10-a.html>
I'm not sure this accounts for it,
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
This would make sense if it is looking at the right most character of
the first part, 1 to 2.
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
But in the same list the right-most character goes from 7 to 1, so that
can't be it.
And in the image I posted, DAT and IDX alternate, as in 1.dat, 1.idx,
2.dat, 2.idx, 3.dat, 3.idx, so dat and idx can't be the reason for the
order. But the numbers increase for a couple pages, then they get
smaller again, at least 6 times.
I'll look at my lists in more
detail tomorrow.
These are mailboxes from Forte Agent. They showed up in the wrong
order in Power Desk and when I looked in the win10 native file manager,
the order was the same.
micky,
These are mailboxes from Forte Agent. They showed up in the wrong
order in Power Desk and when I looked in the win10 native file manager,
the order was the same.
I cannot take a lok at the imgur images, as that website demands JS to be enabled, which my browser doesn't (including just a few lines of what you have a problem with into a post would probably do as well ...).
But looking at the responses you got you seem to be looking at a sorting where numbers inside a filename are regarded as a value, and not a series of numeric characters.
Putting it differently : numbers inside a filename are compared as if they occupy a single character.
I'm not on a Win 10 machine, but perhaps this will give you a lead to how to disable that behaviour :
http://www.ghacks.net/2007/11/09/change-the-windows-xp-file-sort-order
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
I think it would be fun to see how the "dir" command
in Command Prompt displays them.
Paul,
I think it would be fun to see how the "dir" command
in Command Prompt displays them.
It looks like only "file explorer" is affected. Both cmd.exe and >command.com show, when using "dir /one", the basic string-based sorting >order, no matter what "NoStrCmpLogical" has been set to.
(I enabled "NoStrCmpLogical" myself too long ago to remember, so I did some >testing to make sure just now)
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
I think you may have explained it, and the link in your previous
post was clear. Thanks.
But it's the start of the computer day for me and I have to review my
email and do several other non-computer chores before I can compare
the link to what I have. I'll try to do that and get back to you all
later today.
Micky,
I think you may have explained it, and the link in your previous
post was clear. Thanks.
You're welcome.
Just a reminder though : the link I posted is for Windows XP. I've got no >idea if a similar setting still exists in Win10, or what its supposed to be >or where it needs to put ...
But it's the start of the computer day for me and I have to review my
email and do several other non-computer chores before I can compare
the link to what I have. I'll try to do that and get back to you all
later today.
No worries, all in your own time.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
I'm not nearly as concerned about it displaying the way I thought
it should as I am about why it's displaying the way it is. If I
get that straight, I won't care about which way it actually is.
micky,
I'm not nearly as concerned about it displaying the way I thought
it should as I am about why it's displaying the way it is. If I
get that straight, I won't care about which way it actually is.
Same here.
Though it got a problem for me when there was a difference between File >explorer and the command line, tripping me up (I still remember getting >confused by not finding a file I was sure was there). Which is likely why I >enabled the NoStrCmpLogical setting. Just to have them behave the same.
... even if its not using old-style ASCII sorting. :-)
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 15 Oct 2023 21:52:01 -0400, Second
Hundred Years <noreply@private.invalid> wrote:
micky wrote:Well, born in early 1947. I was very pleased that I remembered EBCDIC,
How come these files are not in EBCDIC order?
Howdy, granpaw!
EBCDIC is a real ole character encodin' used on ancient IBM mainframe
computers last millenium. Even th' IBM PC released in 1981 did not use
EBCDIC. Y' muss be a real oldtimer like me, born an' raised befawr th' war. >>
without even trying. So many words I can't remember even when I try
hard.
These are mailboxes from Forte Agent. They showed up in the wrong order >>>> in Power Desk and when I looked in the win10 native file manager, the
order was the same.
Thar ain't no version of Winders what uses EBCDIC. Winders uses ANSI,
Unicode, and OEM/DOS.
How about that! What won't they think of next.
When y'ahr as ole as you and me is, it is easy fer us t'have a senior
moment about whether EBCDIC is used.
I think this has 3 images where the file names start over, but there are >>>> at least 3 more places further down that I didn't include. I hope the >>>> line where it starts over is highlighted. It shows that it's sorted on >>>> name
https://imgur.com/a/8HaksJZ
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
Seems yawr real problem is sortin' file names in numerical vs.
alphabetical order. See this haire link:
<https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/91417-enable-disable-numerical-sorting-file-explorer-windows-10-a.html>
I'm not sure this accounts for it,
The first example was really 2nd.
It goes from 0001BC71.IDX to 00000002.DAT
This would make sense if it is looking at the right most character of
the first part, 1 to 2.
When comparin' numerically...
Thuh fuhrst file begins with a number 0001.
Thuh sec'nd file begins with a number 00000002.
Because 0001 has a smaller numerical value than 00000002, thuh file
beginnin' 0001 sorts befawr thuh file beginnin' 00000002. Numerical
sortin' compares thuh entire numbers, not jus' single digit characters.
Ah graduated from thuh county school with all 3 R's (Readin', 'Ritin'
*and* 'Rithmetic) so ahm confident this is according-ta hoyle.
The 2nd example should be first.
It goes from 0000A7B7.IDX to 00000001.DAT
When comparin' numerically...
Thuh fuhrst file begins with a number 0000.
Thuh sec'nd file begins with a number 00000001.
Because 0000 has a smaller numerical value than 00000001, thuh file
beginnin' 0000 sorts befawr thuh file beginnin' 00000001.
But in the same list the right-most character goes from 7 to 1, so that
can't be it.
And in the image I posted, DAT and IDX alternate, as in 1.dat, 1.idx,
2.dat, 2.idx, 3.dat, 3.idx, so dat and idx can't be the reason for the
order. But the numbers increase for a couple pages, then they get
smaller again, at least 6 times.
I'll look at my lists in more
detail tomorrow.
I'm still looking for a setting that will make it in EBCDIC order.
Sysop: | Keyop |
---|---|
Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
Users: | 297 |
Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
Uptime: | 04:51:45 |
Calls: | 6,666 |
Files: | 12,213 |
Messages: | 5,335,947 |