Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643. Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except the
start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5. Also, 4 updates
down on the list of successful updates is this same update apparently
above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5 Update for
Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a
sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services, ran
the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs folder and retried, and run a virus scan. I am guessing next I should do a CHKDSK
as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has
installed the update, or get it to update again? Or is it possibly
something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643. Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except the
start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5. Also, 4 updates
down on the list of successful updates is this same update apparently
above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5 Update for
Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a
sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services, ran
the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs folder and retried, and run a virus scan. I am guessing next I should do a CHKDSK
as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has
installed the update, or get it to update again? Or is it possibly
something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Rather than let the WU client install multiple updates at the same time
in some order that should be based on dependency, try getting the
updates from the Windows Update Catalog site. Install them in
chronological release order (oldest to newest), and one at a time.

https://catalog.update.microsoft.com/

Despite not getting alerted that Windows must be restarted after an
update, I do it anyway to ensure the fileset is matched that is getting replaced by the update.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/14/2023 6:28 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643. Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except the
start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5. Also, 4 updates
down on the list of successful updates is this same update apparently
above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5 Update for
Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a
sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services, ran
the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs folder and
retried, and run a virus scan. I am guessing next I should do a CHKDSK
as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has
installed the update, or get it to update again? Or is it possibly
something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Rather than let the WU client install multiple updates at the same time
in some order that should be based on dependency, try getting the
updates from the Windows Update Catalog site. Install them in
chronological release order (oldest to newest), and one at a time.

https://catalog.update.microsoft.com/

Despite not getting alerted that Windows must be restarted after an
update, I do it anyway to ensure the fileset is matched that is getting replaced by the update.

I also tried to do that earlier with this update, but the catalogue "did
not find any results" for either:
"2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems" or "KB5001716"

One more point that might be useful, is that hitting retry to install,
it actually shows an installing at 100% before then saying it has failed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

sticks wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643.  Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except the
start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5.  Also, 4 updates
down on the list of successful updates is this same update apparently
above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5 Update for
Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a
sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services, ran
the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs folder and retried, and run a virus scan.  I am guessing next I should do a CHKDSK
as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has
installed the update, or get it to update again?  Or is it possibly something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Alway perform these before running sfc.

Run the DISM commands in an admin console(Command or Powershell)

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If corruption or not healthy run the following
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Once the above is done with no 'health' reporting, then run

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /AnalyzeComponentStore
If cleanup is recommended run the following.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Once done run Windows Update, if fails then run sfc.

--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/14/2023 8:37 PM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643.  Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except
the start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5.  Also, 4
updates down on the list of successful updates is this same update
apparently above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5
Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a
sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services,
ran the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs
folder and retried, and run a virus scan.  I am guessing next I should
do a CHKDSK as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has
installed the update, or get it to update again?  Or is it possibly
something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Alway perform these before running sfc.

Run the DISM commands in an admin console(Command or Powershell)

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If corruption or not healthy run the following
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Once the above is done with no 'health' reporting, then run

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /AnalyzeComponentStore
If cleanup is recommended run the following.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Once done run Windows Update, if fails then run sfc.

OOps, that appears to be the opposite order of what I did. I'll be
working on it again today to see if this helps. Thank You!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/14/2023 8:37 PM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643.  Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except
the start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5.  Also, 4
updates down on the list of successful updates is this same update
apparently above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5
Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a
sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services,
ran the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs
folder and retried, and run a virus scan.  I am guessing next I should
do a CHKDSK as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has
installed the update, or get it to update again?  Or is it possibly
something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Before I did Winston's suggestions, I completed a chkdsk. Some little
things appeared to get cleaned up, but no sector errors.

Alway perform these before running sfc.

Run the DISM commands in an admin console(Command or Powershell)

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If corruption or not healthy run the following
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Once the above is done with no 'health' reporting, then run

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /AnalyzeComponentStore
If cleanup is recommended run the following.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Once done run Windows Update, if fails then run sfc.

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it
already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed. Done
for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it
already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed. Done
for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

If you pay for a Microsoft trouble ticket, you know the first canned
response is "Reboot the computer". Yeah, dumb, but I changed that troubleshooting step to "Reboot to safe mode, and after your Windows
session logs on, immediately reboot into normal mode." Sounds crazy,
but I've seen updates get hung and leave the fileset in a state the that
WU cannot recover. Going into safe mode allows the file deletes or
replaces that failed. Yeah, I know the registry key "PendingMoves" is
supposed to delete, move, or rename files during the Windows boot
sequence, but what if those are system/kernel files that would already
be in use by the time the OS got around to doing the pending actions?

So, try rebooting into safe mode, and reboot into normal mode, and then
select one update at a time (and reboot after each regardless if told
to, or not).

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/start-your-pc-in-safe-mode-in-windows-92c27cff-db89-8644-1ce4-b3e5e56fe234

Getting into Safe Mode was so much easier under Windows 7 (I never had
Windows 8 to check). All those prior users that figured out how to safe
boot were then considered boobs by Microsoft who felt they needed to
protect you from yourself.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/16/2023 10:23 AM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

On 10/14/2023 8:37 PM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643.  Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except
the start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5.  Also, 4
updates down on the list of successful updates is this same update
apparently above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5
Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done
a sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update
services, ran the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the
update logs folder and retried, and run a virus scan.  I am guessing
next I should do a CHKDSK as she has told me it "locks up" and she
has to restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has
installed the update, or get it to update again?  Or is it possibly
something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Before I did Winston's suggestions, I completed a chkdsk.  Some little
things appeared to get cleaned up, but no sector errors.

Alway perform these before running sfc.

Run the DISM commands in an admin console(Command or Powershell)

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If corruption or not healthy run the following
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Once the above is done with no 'health' reporting, then run

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /AnalyzeComponentStore
If cleanup is recommended run the following.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Once done run Windows Update, if fails then run sfc.

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it
already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed.
Done for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

KB number of the 23-5 update for Win10?
The 23-5 Update may be trying to install that month's necessary
Servicing Stack Update.

KB5001716

Which again, it says it already installed months ago. This update is supposedly for pre 21H2 versions, but this computer is already at 21H2.
I am going to go in the registry and remove the update download path,
reboot and try again.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/15/2023 9:34 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it
already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed. Done
for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

If you pay for a Microsoft trouble ticket, you know the first canned
response is "Reboot the computer". Yeah, dumb, but I changed that troubleshooting step to "Reboot to safe mode, and after your Windows
session logs on, immediately reboot into normal mode." Sounds crazy,
but I've seen updates get hung and leave the fileset in a state the that
WU cannot recover. Going into safe mode allows the file deletes or
replaces that failed. Yeah, I know the registry key "PendingMoves" is supposed to delete, move, or rename files during the Windows boot
sequence, but what if those are system/kernel files that would already
be in use by the time the OS got around to doing the pending actions?

So, try rebooting into safe mode, and reboot into normal mode, and then select one update at a time (and reboot after each regardless if told
to, or not).

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/start-your-pc-in-safe-mode-in-windows-92c27cff-db89-8644-1ce4-b3e5e56fe234

Done, but no luck.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

sticks wrote:

On 10/14/2023 8:37 PM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643.  Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except
the start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5.  Also, 4
updates down on the list of successful updates is this same update
apparently above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5
Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a
sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services,
ran the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs
folder and retried, and run a virus scan.  I am guessing next I
should do a CHKDSK as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to
restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has
installed the update, or get it to update again?  Or is it possibly
something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Before I did Winston's suggestions, I completed a chkdsk.  Some little things appeared to get cleaned up, but no sector errors.

Alway perform these before running sfc.

Run the DISM commands in an admin console(Command or Powershell)

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If corruption or not healthy run the following
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Once the above is done with no 'health' reporting, then run

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /AnalyzeComponentStore
If cleanup is recommended run the following.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Once done run Windows Update, if fails then run sfc.

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it
already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed.  Done
for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

KB number of the 23-5 update for Win10?
The 23-5 Update may be trying to install that month's necessary
Servicing Stack Update.



--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:

sticks wrote:

On 10/14/2023 8:37 PM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643.  Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except
the start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5.  Also, 4
updates down on the list of successful updates is this same update
apparently above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5
Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a
sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services,
ran the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs
folder and retried, and run a virus scan.  I am guessing next I
should do a CHKDSK as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to
restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has
installed the update, or get it to update again?  Or is it possibly
something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Before I did Winston's suggestions, I completed a chkdsk.  Some little
things appeared to get cleaned up, but no sector errors.

Alway perform these before running sfc.

Run the DISM commands in an admin console(Command or Powershell)

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If corruption or not healthy run the following
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Once the above is done with no 'health' reporting, then run

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /AnalyzeComponentStore
If cleanup is recommended run the following.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Once done run Windows Update, if fails then run sfc.

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it
already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed.  Done
for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

KB number of the 23-5 update for Win10?
The 23-5 Update may be trying to install that month's necessary
Servicing Stack Update.

Isn't that SSU (Servicing Stack Update) really just to prepare Win10
users to upgrade to Win11?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/16/2023 11:38 AM, sticks wrote:

On 10/15/2023 9:34 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it
already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed.  Done >>> for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

If you pay for a Microsoft trouble ticket, you know the first canned
response is "Reboot the computer".  Yeah, dumb, but I changed that
troubleshooting step to "Reboot to safe mode, and after your Windows
session logs on, immediately reboot into normal mode."  Sounds crazy,
but I've seen updates get hung and leave the fileset in a state the that
WU cannot recover.  Going into safe mode allows the file deletes or
replaces that failed.  Yeah, I know the registry key "PendingMoves" is
supposed to delete, move, or rename files during the Windows boot
sequence, but what if those are system/kernel files that would already
be in use by the time the OS got around to doing the pending actions?

So, try rebooting into safe mode, and reboot into normal mode, and then
select one update at a time (and reboot after each regardless if told
to, or not).

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/start-your-pc-in-safe-mode-in-windows-92c27cff-db89-8644-1ce4-b3e5e56fe234

Done, but no luck.

Something that is not displayed on the screen, is the "version number"
of a Windows Update.

KB5001716 Version one # Check your update history and it might be installed
# Rather than a fail, it might have succeeded.

KB5001716 Version two # Like ghostly apparition, these can appear in later months.
# Typically the installation of these is a lot faster.
# Almost like an SSU is involved or something.
# A certain (large number) of files may have been
# sitting in the "InFlight" directory, waiting for this item.

I see a lot of files, sitting in places they should not be sitting.
There is a temptation to clean them up -- but, there is also the
knowledge that this "garbage" has a purpose.

The malware scanner that Microsoft sends out every month, it has the
same KB every month too. However, its version number is quite high
from all the repetitions.

I do not know how to display the version number. Some file information
may happen to display something related, but I don't know of a way
to get the information in any guaranteed-to-be-there way.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/16/2023 11:37 AM, sticks wrote:

On 10/16/2023 10:23 AM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

On 10/14/2023 8:37 PM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code 0x80070643.  Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except the start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5.  Also, 4 updates down on the list of successful updates is this same update apparently above that keep now saying it fails

to update -> 2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems. >>>>>

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services, ran the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs folder and retried, and run a virus scan. 

I am guessing next I should do a CHKDSK as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has installed the update, or get it to update again?  Or is it possibly something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Before I did Winston's suggestions, I completed a chkdsk.  Some little things appeared to get cleaned up, but no sector errors.

Alway perform these before running sfc.

Run the DISM commands in an admin console(Command or Powershell)

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If corruption or not healthy run the following
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Once the above is done with no 'health' reporting, then run

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /AnalyzeComponentStore
If cleanup is recommended run the following.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Once done run Windows Update, if fails then run sfc.

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed.  Done for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

KB number of the 23-5 update for Win10?
The 23-5 Update may be trying to install that month's necessary Servicing Stack Update.

KB5001716

Which again, it says it already installed months ago.  This update is supposedly for pre 21H2 versions, but this computer is already at 21H2.
I am going to go in the registry and remove the update download path, reboot and try again.

Even though only two releases are supported at a time (19045, 19044),
the series 19041,19042,19043,19044,19045 are closely related. The releases differ in "Features" added per release, but the core materials could
quite likely be patched with the same content, on all five releases.

When you do Properties on a 19045 file, it can say 19044 or it can
say 19041 if it wants. Microsoft does not even clean up the
numbering. The numbering only has to get "adjusted", if at any time,
the file receives an update. Otherwise, an older number is sufficient.
It just cannot be 15063 :-) (You are unlikely to see any file stamps
that old on your machine.)

If you manually install (.msu) the KB5001716, and it says
"this update is not for this machine", one cause of that, is
a missing SSU installation. Once a certain SSU is installed,
then it suddenly "likes" the file :-) The assumption is, that
you are a Level 39 Wizard, and do not need a warning message
that an SSU is missing.

While a person could reset WindowsUpdate, that's so "2015" :-)

Is any of your hardware really old ? I'm just grasping at
straws as to why it hates you.

Somewhere in your Windows Update history, there might be a "Fail"
for which no later installation of it, indicates "Success".

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

VanguardLH wrote:

"...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:

sticks wrote:

On 10/14/2023 8:37 PM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643.  Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except
the start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5.  Also, 4
updates down on the list of successful updates is this same update
apparently above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5
Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a >>>>> sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services, >>>>> ran the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs
folder and retried, and run a virus scan.  I am guessing next I
should do a CHKDSK as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to
restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has
installed the update, or get it to update again?  Or is it possibly >>>>> something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Before I did Winston's suggestions, I completed a chkdsk.  Some little
things appeared to get cleaned up, but no sector errors.

Alway perform these before running sfc.

Run the DISM commands in an admin console(Command or Powershell)

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If corruption or not healthy run the following
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Once the above is done with no 'health' reporting, then run

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /AnalyzeComponentStore
If cleanup is recommended run the following.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Once done run Windows Update, if fails then run sfc.

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it
already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed.  Done >>> for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

KB number of the 23-5 update for Win10?
The 23-5 Update may be trying to install that month's necessary
Servicing Stack Update.

Isn't that SSU (Servicing Stack Update) really just to prepare Win10
users to upgrade to Win11?

No. SSU are for the update engine to mitigate issues while installing
the latest quality(monthly cumulative) and feature updates(versions of
the same base o/s e.g. 22H2, 22H1)

The upgrade to Win11 will check for the latest Servicing Stack and
install that during the upgrade process in addition to its o/s. In some
cases, if the earlier version is too old or out of service, the device
may need to be updated to the latest supported(in-service) version
before performing the o/s upgraded.

In the op's case, the o/s is 21H2.
=> 21H2 ended servicing for security updates in June 13, 2023.

Which raises the question, why wasn't 21H2 ever upgraded to
22H2(released over a year ago).
- i.e. if not updating now, was it not updating before.

Also note, the op mentioned the problem/suspicious update is KB5001716
- that is an update(KB number doesn't change, just re-issued with
updated bits) for *Windows Update Services* which is necessary to
receive security updates.
=> The op is incorrect in stating that KB5001716 is only for pre 21H2 versions.
...But since the version(21H2) is out of service since June 2023, the
device could be in a loop, where only a reset or feature update to 22H2 resolves the issue.

Why...because when KB5001716 is installed, if the device is out of
service it may attempt to install a feature update(i.e. 22H2) if the
current has reached end of support. If a feature update is not
installed by KB5001716, the device no longer in service typically
receives a notice that the device is running a version that has reached
the end of the support lifecycle(and may not meet requirements for the currently installed version of Windows).

What do we know from prior similar incidents?
Any or more of the following may be necessary
- Updating graphic and network drivers
- reseting the device (should be done only after getting all clear
from DISM checks for health and component store)
- using 22H2 media(or iso) to install a feature update
- clean installing Windows may be necessary
- removing any other 3rd party AV/AM program
- removing any old, no longer compatible software
- removing any 3rd party software that changes Windows default features(Start, File Explorer, etc.)




--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/17/2023 3:29 AM, ...winston wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

"...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:

sticks wrote:

On 10/14/2023 8:37 PM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643.  Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except >>>>>> the start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5.  Also, 4 >>>>>> updates down on the list of successful updates is this same update >>>>>> apparently above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5 >>>>>> Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a >>>>>> sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services, >>>>>> ran the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs
folder and retried, and run a virus scan.  I am guessing next I
should do a CHKDSK as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to >>>>>> restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has >>>>>> installed the update, or get it to update again?  Or is it possibly >>>>>> something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Before I did Winston's suggestions, I completed a chkdsk.  Some little >>>> things appeared to get cleaned up, but no sector errors.

Alway perform these before running sfc.

Run the DISM commands in an admin console(Command or Powershell)

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If corruption or not healthy run the following
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Once the above is done with no 'health' reporting, then run

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /AnalyzeComponentStore
If cleanup is recommended run the following.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Once done run Windows Update, if fails then run sfc.

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it
already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed.
Done
for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

KB number of the 23-5 update for Win10?
The 23-5 Update may be trying to install that month's necessary
Servicing Stack Update.

Isn't that SSU (Servicing Stack Update) really just to prepare Win10
users to upgrade to Win11?

No. SSU are for the update engine to mitigate issues while installing
the latest quality(monthly cumulative) and feature updates(versions of
the same base o/s e.g. 22H2, 22H1)

The upgrade to Win11 will check for the latest Servicing Stack and
install that during the upgrade process in addition to its o/s. In some cases, if the earlier version is too old or out of service, the device
may need to be updated to the latest supported(in-service) version
before performing the o/s upgraded.

In the op's case, the o/s is 21H2.

; 21H2 ended servicing for security updates in June 13, 2023.

Which raises the question, why wasn't 21H2 ever upgraded to
22H2(released over a year ago).
 - i.e. if not updating now, was it not updating before.

Also note, the op mentioned the problem/suspicious update is KB5001716
 - that is an update(KB number doesn't change, just re-issued with
updated bits) for *Windows Update Services* which is necessary to
receive security updates.

; The op is incorrect in stating that KB5001716 is only for pre 21H2

versions.
 ...But since the version(21H2) is out of service since June 2023, the device could be in a loop, where only a reset or feature update to 22H2 resolves the issue.

Why...because when KB5001716 is installed, if the device is out of
service it may attempt to install a feature update(i.e. 22H2) if the
current has reached end of support.  If a feature update is not
installed by KB5001716, the device no longer in service typically
receives a notice that the device is running a version that has reached
the end of the support lifecycle(and may not meet requirements for the currently installed version of Windows).

What do we know from prior similar incidents?
Any or more of the following may be necessary
 - Updating graphic and network drivers
 - reseting the device (should be done only after getting all clear
from DISM checks for health and component store)
 - using 22H2 media(or iso) to install a feature update
 - clean installing Windows may be necessary
 - removing any other 3rd party AV/AM program
 - removing any old, no longer compatible software
 - removing any 3rd party software that changes Windows default features(Start, File Explorer, etc.)

I am pleased to report this has all been solved. Surprisingly, it was affecting one of my other computers too!
I began wondering yesterday if it had anything to do with something that
was tossed around here months ago. The registry change to not allow
updates past a certain version. I did that on her laptop, and also on
this desktop I am on now. So I undid the change on target feature
update yesterday on the laptop. It still didn't work and got stuck in
the same spot.
This morning I noticed this box that I use had something going on in
windows update, too. It was telling me the usual I need to install
something notice. Clicking on it did install windows defender updates,
but went back to the needing more box. Successive attempts to update downloaded nothing, and gave nothing to update, but just was in a loop
telling me I needed to update. This box had no versions of KB5001716
attempted in the install history.
I don't recall why at the time I did the reg hack that I decided to just
stay at 21H2, but vaguely remember some of the talk and decided since
this machine couldn't run 11 anyways, I would just leave it where it is.
Some of it I believe was to get rid of the windows 11 nags that keep
popping up.
Anyway, I undid the hack on this box, and windows update immediately
found and installed KB5001716 that seemed to be the sticking point on
the wife's computer, and then proceeded to install 22H2 on it's own.
After several updates, the Windows update page is back to my computer
being up to date. Good result.
Back to the wife's computer, since I couldn't get past the attempts at
getting KB5001716 installed, I figured I'd try just manually installing
22H2. I got the Win 10 upgrade iso (Windows10Upgrade9252.exe) from
Microsoft's site and that did the trick. After several hours getting
that installed, several more updates were done, and she also has the all
good notice again. I do want to go back in and check and see if if
KB5001716 got successfully installed in the process, for the heck of it.

Now I don't know this for sure, but it does seem like something changed
in the last week to affect both of these computers like this. I would
venture to say if there are others who have the target feature update
set to 21H2, like I did, we'll be hearing of others having this problem.
I also have a feeling that if you set the target for being left at
22H2, you might not get this. I suppose I could redo the reg changes
for 22H2 this time just for the heck of it and to see if it happens at all.

Once again, Winston, Paul, Vanguard, and others, thanks for sticking
with it to help me get this figured out! It was a good day in the end!

sticks

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

sticks wrote:

On 10/17/2023 3:29 AM, ...winston wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

"...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:

sticks wrote:

On 10/14/2023 8:37 PM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643.  Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems. >>>>>>>
The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except >>>>>>> the start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5.  Also, 4 >>>>>>> updates down on the list of successful updates is this same update >>>>>>> apparently above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5 >>>>>>> Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted,
done a
sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services, >>>>>>> ran the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs >>>>>>> folder and retried, and run a virus scan.  I am guessing next I >>>>>>> should do a CHKDSK as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to >>>>>>> restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has >>>>>>> installed the update, or get it to update again?  Or is it possibly >>>>>>> something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Before I did Winston's suggestions, I completed a chkdsk.  Some little >>>>> things appeared to get cleaned up, but no sector errors.

Alway perform these before running sfc.

Run the DISM commands in an admin console(Command or Powershell)

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If corruption or not healthy run the following
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Once the above is done with no 'health' reporting, then run

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /AnalyzeComponentStore
If cleanup is recommended run the following.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Once done run Windows Update, if fails then run sfc.

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it
already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed.
Done
for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

KB number of the 23-5 update for Win10?
The 23-5 Update may be trying to install that month's necessary
Servicing Stack Update.

Isn't that SSU (Servicing Stack Update) really just to prepare Win10
users to upgrade to Win11?

No. SSU are for the update engine to mitigate issues while installing
the latest quality(monthly cumulative) and feature updates(versions of
the same base o/s e.g. 22H2, 22H1)

The upgrade to Win11 will check for the latest Servicing Stack and
install that during the upgrade process in addition to its o/s. In
some cases, if the earlier version is too old or out of service, the
device may need to be updated to the latest supported(in-service)
version before performing the o/s upgraded.

In the op's case, the o/s is 21H2.
  => 21H2 ended servicing for security updates in June 13, 2023.

Which raises the question, why wasn't 21H2 ever upgraded to
22H2(released over a year ago).
  - i.e. if not updating now, was it not updating before.

Also note, the op mentioned the problem/suspicious update is KB5001716
  - that is an update(KB number doesn't change, just re-issued with
updated bits) for *Windows Update Services* which is necessary to
receive security updates.
  => The op is incorrect in stating that KB5001716 is only for pre
21H2 versions.
  ...But since the version(21H2) is out of service since June 2023,
the device could be in a loop, where only a reset or feature update to
22H2 resolves the issue.

Why...because when KB5001716 is installed, if the device is out of
service it may attempt to install a feature update(i.e. 22H2) if the
current has reached end of support.  If a feature update is not
installed by KB5001716, the device no longer in service typically
receives a notice that the device is running a version that has
reached the end of the support lifecycle(and may not meet requirements
for the currently installed version of Windows).

What do we know from prior similar incidents?
Any or more of the following may be necessary
  - Updating graphic and network drivers
  - reseting the device (should be done only after getting all clear
from DISM checks for health and component store)
  - using 22H2 media(or iso) to install a feature update
  - clean installing Windows may be necessary
  - removing any other 3rd party AV/AM program
  - removing any old, no longer compatible software
  - removing any 3rd party software that changes Windows default
features(Start, File Explorer, etc.)

I am pleased to report this has all been solved.  Surprisingly, it was affecting one of my other computers too!
I began wondering yesterday if it had anything to do with something that
was tossed around here months ago.  The registry change to not allow
updates past a certain version.  I did that on her laptop, and also on
this desktop I am on now.  So I undid the change on target feature
update yesterday on the laptop.  It still didn't work and got stuck in
the same spot.
This morning I noticed this box that I use had something going on in
windows update, too.  It was telling me the usual I need to install something notice.  Clicking on it did install windows defender updates,
but went back to the needing more box.  Successive attempts to update downloaded nothing, and gave nothing to update, but just was in a loop telling me I needed to update.  This box had no versions of KB5001716 attempted in the install history.
I don't recall why at the time I did the reg hack that I decided to just
stay at 21H2, but vaguely remember some of the talk and decided since
this machine couldn't run 11 anyways, I would just leave it where it is.
 Some of it I believe was to get rid of the windows 11 nags that keep popping up.
Anyway, I undid the hack on this box, and windows update immediately
found and installed KB5001716 that seemed to be the sticking point on
the wife's computer, and then proceeded to install 22H2 on it's own.
After several updates, the Windows update page is back to my computer
being up to date.  Good result.
Back to the wife's computer, since I couldn't get past the attempts at getting KB5001716 installed, I figured I'd try just manually installing 22H2.  I got the Win 10 upgrade iso (Windows10Upgrade9252.exe) from Microsoft's site and that did the trick.  After several hours getting
that installed, several more updates were done, and she also has the all
good notice again.  I do want to go back in and check and see if if KB5001716 got successfully installed  in the process, for the heck of it.

Now I don't know this for sure, but it does seem like something changed
in the last week to affect both of these computers like this.  I would venture to say if there are others who have the target feature update
set to 21H2, like I did, we'll be hearing of others having this problem.
 I also have a feeling that if you set the target for being left at
22H2, you might not get this.  I suppose I could redo the reg changes
for 22H2 this time just for the heck of it and to see if it happens at all.

Once again, Winston, Paul, Vanguard, and others, thanks for sticking
with it to help me get this figured out!  It was a good day in the end!

sticks

Here's the quick version of what happened.
The devices were stuck on 21H2 an out of service version.
For one device...Removing the hack to limit the device to 21H2 allowed
Windows to update properly from a no longer supported/service version to
22H2.
For the other device, the 22H2 iso updated from 21H2 - use of the 22H2
Iso or usb 22H2 Media doesn't care what the device was running, it
recognizes the device as Windows 10 meeting specs and updated to 22H2.

In the future, KB5001716 will continue to be released with the same KB
number updating the Window Update base engine to be able to receive
receive security updates(unlike a Servicing Stack which updates all
Windows Update services with code to mitigate issues during Windows updates(cumulative and feature) including reverting to the prior
version/build if the updates fail.
i.e. the former to ensure it can receive updates, the latter to
perform the necessary tasks during the update process and handle/address
any issues for a succesful or failed update.


--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/18/2023 2:48 AM, ...winston wrote:

Now I don't know this for sure, but it does seem like something
changed in the last week to affect both of these computers like this.
I would venture to say if there are others who have the target feature
update set to 21H2, like I did, we'll be hearing of others having this
problem.   I also have a feeling that if you set the target for being
left at 22H2, you might not get this.  I suppose I could redo the reg
changes for 22H2 this time just for the heck of it and to see if it
happens at all.

Here's the quick version of what happened.
The devices were stuck on 21H2 an out of service version.
For one device...Removing the hack to limit the device to 21H2 allowed Windows to update properly from a no longer supported/service version to 22H2.
For the other device, the 22H2 iso updated from 21H2 - use of the 22H2
Iso or usb 22H2 Media doesn't care what the device was running, it
recognizes the device as Windows 10 meeting specs and updated to 22H2.

In the future, KB5001716 will continue to be released with the same KB
number updating the Window Update base engine to be able to receive
receive security updates(unlike a Servicing Stack which updates all
Windows Update services with code to mitigate issues during Windows updates(cumulative and feature) including reverting to the prior version/build if the updates fail.
 i.e. the former to ensure it can receive updates, the latter to
perform the necessary tasks during the update process and handle/address
any issues for a succesful or failed update.

I checked my newer computer last night. It too had been reg hacked to
limit at 21H2 and was similarly lost in update space. According to the history, this happened the day before on the 16th. Removing the hack immediately fixed the problem there.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

I am pleased to report this has all been solved. Surprisingly, it was affecting one of my other computers too!
I began wondering yesterday if it had anything to do with something that
was tossed around here months ago. The registry change to not allow
updates past a certain version. I did that on her laptop, and also on
this desktop I am on now. So I undid the change on target feature
update yesterday on the laptop. It still didn't work and got stuck in
the same spot.

I remember the thought occured to me that you might've disabled updates.
But considering your expertise exhibited here, I dismissed that thought
with "Nah, he would know he did that."

Don't know how you disable Windows updates. There have been plenty of
online articles about renaming, moving, or deleting files, disabling the
WU service, and other services that call it (Microsoft gives an inocuous
name to those other services that call WU). There is the policy to
disable updates, but my Home edition does not have the gpedit.msc tool
(group policy editor), so I'd have to do registry edits since all
policies are registry entries. Instead I use WinAero Tweaker to disable
the updates. See the following article on how they do it.

https://winaero.com/how-to-disable-windows-update-in-windows-10-rtm/

There are features that are killed when updates are blocked. For
example, I cannot look at the WU history. When I go to the Windows
Update wizard under which is the link to history, I'm told "Something
went wrong. Try to open Settings later." Uh huh. If I try to use
Nirsoft's Windows Updates Viewer, I get "Error 1058: The service cannot
be started, either because it is disabled or beca..." (message gets
truncated in the status bar). I cannot check for Defender updates.
Although Defender is supposed to only use the BITS service for
background downloading of Defender updates, Microsoft made Defender
unable to update if WU is disabled. The last Defender scan was 9/26/23,
so Defender won't scan, either, with WU disabled. Its on-access
(real-time) scanner is still active, but scheduled scans don't happen.

I haven't got an update for months now after using WinAero's method
which disables the WU service and defines the kill policy. Eventually I
will have to reenable WU after saving an image backup and when I have
the time and motivation to update.

Glad you remembered you had disabled WU. Sometimes past actions can be
easily forgotten.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/18/2023 12:20 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

I am pleased to report this has all been solved. Surprisingly, it was
affecting one of my other computers too!
I began wondering yesterday if it had anything to do with something that
was tossed around here months ago. The registry change to not allow
updates past a certain version. I did that on her laptop, and also on
this desktop I am on now. So I undid the change on target feature
update yesterday on the laptop. It still didn't work and got stuck in
the same spot.

I remember the thought occured to me that you might've disabled updates.
But considering your expertise exhibited here, I dismissed that thought
with "Nah, he would know he did that."

I didn't really disable updates. It was specifying of the released
version I wanted to stick with. As winston kinda explained, once that
version was past support end date, that is in effect what happened. The
one got stuck in the loop. The others not so bad, as one would still
download Defender updates, and the other just said to check and never
gave an error message.

Don't know how you disable Windows updates.

This was the reg file that set the version.
---
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate] "ProductVersion"="Windows 10"
"TargetReleaseVersion"=dword:00000001
"TargetReleaseVersionInfo"="21H2"
---

To get rid of it you can either run this:
---
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate] "ProductVersion"=-
"TargetReleaseVersion"=-
"TargetReleaseVersionInfo"=-
---

Or on one box I just deleted the values.
Originally there also was a free program called Take Control (I think
that's it) that was on her computer. It was inactive as I just turned
it off and ran the reg file as I recall.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/18/2023 1:20 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

I am pleased to report this has all been solved. Surprisingly, it was
affecting one of my other computers too!
I began wondering yesterday if it had anything to do with something that
was tossed around here months ago. The registry change to not allow
updates past a certain version. I did that on her laptop, and also on
this desktop I am on now. So I undid the change on target feature
update yesterday on the laptop. It still didn't work and got stuck in
the same spot.

I remember the thought occured to me that you might've disabled updates.
But considering your expertise exhibited here, I dismissed that thought
with "Nah, he would know he did that."

Don't know how you disable Windows updates. There have been plenty of
online articles about renaming, moving, or deleting files, disabling the
WU service, and other services that call it (Microsoft gives an inocuous
name to those other services that call WU). There is the policy to
disable updates, but my Home edition does not have the gpedit.msc tool
(group policy editor), so I'd have to do registry edits since all
policies are registry entries. Instead I use WinAero Tweaker to disable
the updates. See the following article on how they do it.

https://winaero.com/how-to-disable-windows-update-in-windows-10-rtm/

There are features that are killed when updates are blocked. For
example, I cannot look at the WU history. When I go to the Windows
Update wizard under which is the link to history, I'm told "Something
went wrong. Try to open Settings later." Uh huh. If I try to use
Nirsoft's Windows Updates Viewer, I get "Error 1058: The service cannot
be started, either because it is disabled or beca..." (message gets
truncated in the status bar). I cannot check for Defender updates.
Although Defender is supposed to only use the BITS service for
background downloading of Defender updates, Microsoft made Defender
unable to update if WU is disabled. The last Defender scan was 9/26/23,
so Defender won't scan, either, with WU disabled. Its on-access
(real-time) scanner is still active, but scheduled scans don't happen.

I haven't got an update for months now after using WinAero's method
which disables the WU service and defines the kill policy. Eventually I
will have to reenable WU after saving an image backup and when I have
the time and motivation to update.

Glad you remembered you had disabled WU. Sometimes past actions can be easily forgotten.

I think he has done the registry equivalent of InControl.

https://www.grc.com/incontrol.htm

What that does, is still allows Windows Updates to come in, but it
set the Registry control that prevents version upgrades. You can, for
example, in the GUI of that tool, set it to

W10 21H2

and it will stay on that stream. And if the machine isn't running 21H2
at the time, it would be "allowed" to upgrade that far. It's a "rev limiter" for Windows, and it works because Microsoft put registry controls there
for that purpose.

There also used to be a web page, with the raw registry settings, and originally, that's how I controlled version. But I threw in the InControl
thing for fun. (It sets one more registry entry, than my edits did.)

I use it on this machine, because I do have a W10 as a multiboot, and
I don't want that one getting "overheated" wishing it was W11 :-)

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/18/2023 3:48 AM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

On 10/17/2023 3:29 AM, ...winston wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

"...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:

sticks wrote:

On 10/14/2023 8:37 PM, ...winston wrote:

sticks wrote:

Wife's laptop giving me a "failed to install" error with code
0x80070643.  Specifically, this is for:
2023-5 Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems. >>>>>>>>
The line below this in update history has the same KB5001716 except >>>>>>>> the start of the filename is 2023-10, instead of 2023-5.  Also, 4 >>>>>>>> updates down on the list of successful updates is this same update >>>>>>>> apparently above that keep now saying it fails to update -> 2023-5 >>>>>>>> Update for Windows 10 Version 21H2 for x64-based Systems.

I have stopped and restarted the usual services, clean booted, done a >>>>>>>> sfc ( did find errors and fixed), restarted windows update services, >>>>>>>> ran the update troubleshooter, ran DISM, deleted the update logs >>>>>>>> folder and retried, and run a virus scan.  I am guessing next I >>>>>>>> should do a CHKDSK as she has told me it "locks up" and she has to >>>>>>>> restart it.

Any other ideas on what I can do to either get it to realize it has >>>>>>>> installed the update, or get it to update again?  Or is it possibly >>>>>>>> something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

sticks

Before I did Winston's suggestions, I completed a chkdsk.  Some little >>>>>> things appeared to get cleaned up, but no sector errors.

Alway perform these before running sfc.

Run the DISM commands in an admin console(Command or Powershell) >>>>>>>
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If corruption or not healthy run the following
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

Once the above is done with no 'health' reporting, then run

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /AnalyzeComponentStore
If cleanup is recommended run the following.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Once done run Windows Update, if fails then run sfc.

Completed everything as suggested above, WU failed again.
Ran another sfc, no errors.
WU again failed with the same error.
Still can't understand why it is trying to install a 23-5 update it >>>>>> already installed months ago, shows 100%, and then says it failed. Done >>>>>> for the day on this, and gonna have to regroup tomorrow I guess.

Thanks for all the attempts at help everyone!

KB number of the 23-5 update for Win10?
The 23-5 Update may be trying to install that month's necessary
Servicing Stack Update.

Isn't that SSU (Servicing Stack Update) really just to prepare Win10
users to upgrade to Win11?

No. SSU are for the update engine to mitigate issues while installing the latest quality(monthly cumulative) and feature updates(versions of the same base o/s e.g. 22H2, 22H1)

The upgrade to Win11 will check for the latest Servicing Stack and install that during the upgrade process in addition to its o/s. In some cases, if the earlier version is too old or out of service, the device may need to be updated to the latest

supported(in-service) version before performing the o/s upgraded.

In the op's case, the o/s is 21H2.
  => 21H2 ended servicing for security updates in June 13, 2023.

Which raises the question, why wasn't 21H2 ever upgraded to 22H2(released over a year ago).
  - i.e. if not updating now, was it not updating before.

Also note, the op mentioned the problem/suspicious update is KB5001716
  - that is an update(KB number doesn't change, just re-issued with updated bits) for *Windows Update Services* which is necessary to receive security updates.
  => The op is incorrect in stating that KB5001716 is only for pre 21H2 versions.
  ...But since the version(21H2) is out of service since June 2023, the device could be in a loop, where only a reset or feature update to 22H2 resolves the issue.

Why...because when KB5001716 is installed, if the device is out of service it may attempt to install a feature update(i.e. 22H2) if the current has reached end of support.  If a feature update is not installed by KB5001716, the device no longer in

service typically receives a notice that the device is running a version that has reached the end of the support lifecycle(and may not meet requirements for the currently installed version of Windows).

What do we know from prior similar incidents?
Any or more of the following may be necessary
  - Updating graphic and network drivers
  - reseting the device (should be done only after getting all clear from DISM checks for health and component store)
  - using 22H2 media(or iso) to install a feature update
  - clean installing Windows may be necessary
  - removing any other 3rd party AV/AM program
  - removing any old, no longer compatible software
  - removing any 3rd party software that changes Windows default features(Start, File Explorer, etc.)

I am pleased to report this has all been solved.  Surprisingly, it was affecting one of my other computers too!
I began wondering yesterday if it had anything to do with something that was tossed around here months ago.  The registry change to not allow updates past a certain version.  I did that on her laptop, and also on this desktop I am on now.  So I

undid the change on target feature update yesterday on the laptop.  It still didn't work and got stuck in the same spot.

This morning I noticed this box that I use had something going on in windows update, too.  It was telling me the usual I need to install something notice.  Clicking on it did install windows defender updates, but went back to the needing more box. 

Successive attempts to update downloaded nothing, and gave nothing to update, but just was in a loop telling me I needed to update.  This box had no versions of KB5001716 attempted in the install history.

I don't recall why at the time I did the reg hack that I decided to just stay at 21H2, but vaguely remember some of the talk and decided since this machine couldn't run 11 anyways, I would just leave it where it is.   Some of it I believe was to get

rid of the windows 11 nags that keep popping up.

Anyway, I undid the hack on this box, and windows update immediately found and installed KB5001716 that seemed to be the sticking point on the wife's computer, and then proceeded to install 22H2 on it's own. After several updates, the Windows update

page is back to my computer being up to date.  Good result.

Back to the wife's computer, since I couldn't get past the attempts at getting KB5001716 installed, I figured I'd try just manually installing 22H2.  I got the Win 10 upgrade iso (Windows10Upgrade9252.exe) from Microsoft's site and that did the trick.

  After several hours getting that installed, several more updates were done, and she also has the all good notice again.  I do want to go back in and check and see if if KB5001716 got successfully installed  in the process, for the heck of it.

Now I don't know this for sure, but it does seem like something changed in the last week to affect both of these computers like this.  I would venture to say if there are others who have the target feature update set to 21H2, like I did, we'll be

hearing of others having this problem.   I also have a feeling that if you set the target for being left at 22H2, you might not get this.  I suppose I could redo the reg changes for 22H2 this time just for the heck of it and to see if it happens at
all.

Once again, Winston, Paul, Vanguard, and others, thanks for sticking with it to help me get this figured out!  It was a good day in the end!

sticks

Here's the quick version of what happened.
The devices were stuck on 21H2 an out of service version.
For one device...Removing the hack to limit the device to 21H2 allowed Windows to update properly from a no longer supported/service version to 22H2.
For the other device, the 22H2 iso updated from 21H2 - use of the 22H2 Iso or usb 22H2 Media doesn't care what the device was running, it recognizes the device as Windows 10 meeting specs and updated to 22H2.

In the future, KB5001716 will continue to be released with the same KB number updating the Window Update base engine to be able to receive receive security updates(unlike a Servicing Stack which updates all Windows Update services with code to mitigate

issues during Windows updates(cumulative and feature) including reverting to the prior version/build if the updates fail.

 i.e. the former to ensure it can receive updates, the latter to perform the necessary tasks during the update process and handle/address any issues for a succesful or failed update.

I thought two releases were supported, which would be 21H2 and 22H2.
22H2 being the last upgrade version for Windows 10.

Are you saying they are switching to only supporting one version ?
As in W10 22H2 ?

My Optiplex with GMA x4500 graphics, would not accept 22H2, without
replacing the graphics. As a result, an owner of a vanilla Optiplex 780,
would get stuck in a "cannot upgrade" loop while in W10 21H2. And since graphics
cards can be expensive ($200 for something that is not schlock and has no
video decoder support), it's unlikely someone who paid $200 for a refurb,
wants to spend $200 for a graphics card to go with it.

Paul

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Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On 10/18/2023 1:20 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

I am pleased to report this has all been solved. Surprisingly, it was
affecting one of my other computers too!
I began wondering yesterday if it had anything to do with something that >>> was tossed around here months ago. The registry change to not allow
updates past a certain version. I did that on her laptop, and also on
this desktop I am on now. So I undid the change on target feature
update yesterday on the laptop. It still didn't work and got stuck in
the same spot.

I remember the thought occured to me that you might've disabled updates.
But considering your expertise exhibited here, I dismissed that thought
with "Nah, he would know he did that."

Don't know how you disable Windows updates. There have been plenty of
online articles about renaming, moving, or deleting files, disabling the
WU service, and other services that call it (Microsoft gives an inocuous
name to those other services that call WU). There is the policy to
disable updates, but my Home edition does not have the gpedit.msc tool
(group policy editor), so I'd have to do registry edits since all
policies are registry entries. Instead I use WinAero Tweaker to disable
the updates. See the following article on how they do it.

https://winaero.com/how-to-disable-windows-update-in-windows-10-rtm/

There are features that are killed when updates are blocked. For
example, I cannot look at the WU history. When I go to the Windows
Update wizard under which is the link to history, I'm told "Something
went wrong. Try to open Settings later." Uh huh. If I try to use
Nirsoft's Windows Updates Viewer, I get "Error 1058: The service cannot
be started, either because it is disabled or beca..." (message gets
truncated in the status bar). I cannot check for Defender updates.
Although Defender is supposed to only use the BITS service for
background downloading of Defender updates, Microsoft made Defender
unable to update if WU is disabled. The last Defender scan was 9/26/23,
so Defender won't scan, either, with WU disabled. Its on-access
(real-time) scanner is still active, but scheduled scans don't happen.

I haven't got an update for months now after using WinAero's method
which disables the WU service and defines the kill policy. Eventually I
will have to reenable WU after saving an image backup and when I have
the time and motivation to update.

Glad you remembered you had disabled WU. Sometimes past actions can be
easily forgotten.

I think he has done the registry equivalent of InControl.

https://www.grc.com/incontrol.htm

What that does, is still allows Windows Updates to come in, but it
set the Registry control that prevents version upgrades. You can, for example, in the GUI of that tool, set it to

W10 21H2

and it will stay on that stream. And if the machine isn't running 21H2
at the time, it would be "allowed" to upgrade that far. It's a "rev limiter" for Windows, and it works because Microsoft put registry controls there
for that purpose.

There also used to be a web page, with the raw registry settings, and originally, that's how I controlled version. But I threw in the InControl thing for fun. (It sets one more registry entry, than my edits did.)

I use it on this machine, because I do have a W10 as a multiboot, and
I don't want that one getting "overheated" wishing it was W11 :-)

Paul

I killed Win11 upgrade offers by disabling the TPM module in the BIOS.
Well, I don't have a TPM chip although there is a header on the mobo to
add on. My BIOS has the Intel PTT (Platform Trust Technology) firmware
to emulate the TPM. I disable that. WU sees I don't have TPM (or Intel
PTT), so it never offer that update.

I kill all updating of the OS until I'm prepared, like creating an image backup. After preparation, I reenable updates, get them, and check
stability. If the upgrade turns south, I restore the image backup
(which still has updates disabled). I don't like Microsoft changing the
state of my computer. Yes, it's their software, but it's my hardware,
and I'll decide what software gets on my hardware.

However, since Microsoft recanted on their promise that Defender updates
would not rely on the WU client (but would still use the BITS service),
the Defender updates and scans stopped when I disabled WU. When ready,
I'll have to enable updates, apply them, including Defender, and disable updates again. I'll have my old image backup, and those made after the
updates and reenable of the WU disable.

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On 10/18/2023 8:42 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

However, since Microsoft recanted on their promise that Defender updates would not rely on the WU client (but would still use the BITS service),
the Defender updates and scans stopped when I disabled WU. When ready,
I'll have to enable updates, apply them, including Defender, and disable updates again. I'll have my old image backup, and those made after the updates and reenable of the WU disable.

If a machine is offline, you can get a file for updating the definitions
from here.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/defenderupdates

Paul

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