Things I've tried;
System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot, change screen display options.
I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a
re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this
problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your chosen charity.
Tbird 115, latest.
It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my mouse over it.
I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new
message", their GUIs appear ok.
Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
Things I've tried;
System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot, change screen display options.
I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a re-install; but it strikes me that others must have
been hit by this problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
Ed
Big Al wrote:
On 10/14/23 08:13 AM, this is what Ed Cryer wrote:
This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.Maybe it's off the screen?
I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your chosen charity.
Tbird 115, latest.
It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my mouse over it.
I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs appear ok.
Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
Things I've tried;
System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot, change screen display options.
I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
Ed
Press and hold the Win key and tap the arrow keys to navigate the window into view. You can also right-click the Windows taskbar and "Cascade windows" or "Show windows stacked".
https://www.wikihow.com/Bring-an-Off-Screen-Window-Back-on-Windows
Hey, Al, you're the greatest. You led me straight to it, and made me feel like the world's biggest idiot.
I read your post and realised straight away what was afoot.
I have a dual monitor, kept switched off for ages, controlled by DisplayFusion which inserts an icon top right corner to switch displays between monitors. I'd completely forgotten about it.
Well, man, what online charity do you pick?
Ed
Paul wrote:
On 10/14/2023 9:26 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Big Al wrote:
On 10/14/23 08:13 AM, this is what Ed Cryer wrote:
This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.Maybe it's off the screen?
I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your chosen charity.
Tbird 115, latest.
It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my mouse over it.
I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs appear ok.
Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
Things I've tried;
System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot, change screen display options.
I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
Ed
Press and hold the Win key and tap the arrow keys to navigate the window into view. You can also right-click the Windows taskbar and "Cascade windows" or "Show windows stacked".
https://www.wikihow.com/Bring-an-Off-Screen-Window-Back-on-Windows
Hey, Al, you're the greatest. You led me straight to it, and made me feel like the world's biggest idiot.
I read your post and realised straight away what was afoot.
I have a dual monitor, kept switched off for ages, controlled by DisplayFusion which inserts an icon top right corner to switch displays between monitors. I'd completely forgotten about it.
Well, man, what online charity do you pick?
Ed
Now you know why we like screen shots :-)
snippingtool.exe # (capture whole screen, save, examine with Photos)
Paul
Yes, I have occasionally used those. In this case, however, I can't see how a screenshot would have added to the words I used. Except, maybe,to have jogged my memory about the second monitor.
BTW, I notice you have a user-agent called "Ratcatcher". Is it any good? Worth a try?
Ed
On 10/15/2023 5:16 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote:
*******
The purpose of me telling you to check a screen shot, is Windows
has a peculiar way of recording those. The screenshot shows
the alignment of the two monitors, and the screenshot fills
the areas that don't have data.
+------------++---------+
| || |
| || |
| |+---------+
| | <=== this area filled with a solid colour
+------------+
Once you are used to seeing that, in your screenshots, knowledge
of what your computer is doing at present, becomes second nature.
It would tweak your memory about the second monitor.
Windows uses impedance sensing, to detect monitors. For example,
if the VGA RGB signals have 75 ohm loads on them, the video card tells Windows
there is a load on the VGA. Then, the Display Properties adds
a second rectangle to the screen presentation and so on. for HDMI and DisplayPort,
the channels have 100 ohm terminators (differential terminators) and
the video card senses those too. One difference is, the HDMI and
DP are sensitive to "capacitance", and even putting an unoccupied and
unwired short connector on the video card faceplate, "triggers detection". Which is a false positive if it happens.
And don't worry -- all that fancy tech is defeated by poorly written
drivers. I have a problem here with my other machine, where the
driver puts the signal on the wrong port. And it does not matter
that impedance sensing is present, when the software does stupid stuff.
It used to be, when I booted the computer, the screen would be
black, because... the signal was on a different connector.
A connector with no monitor on it. And no capacitance either.
It was just a "driver preference" to put the
signal on the unoccupied connector. The driver "likes" the HDMI connector!
Paul
On 2023-10-15 13:13, Paul wrote:
On 10/15/2023 5:16 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote:
*******
The purpose of me telling you to check a screen shot, is Windows
has a peculiar way of recording those. The screenshot shows
the alignment of the two monitors, and the screenshot fills
the areas that don't have data.
+------------++---------+
| || |
| || |
| |+---------+
| | <=== this area filled with a solid colour
+------------+
Once you are used to seeing that, in your screenshots, knowledge
of what your computer is doing at present, becomes second nature.
It would tweak your memory about the second monitor.
Windows uses impedance sensing, to detect monitors. For example,
if the VGA RGB signals have 75 ohm loads on them, the video card tells Windows
there is a load on the VGA. Then, the Display Properties adds
a second rectangle to the screen presentation and so on. for HDMI and DisplayPort,
the channels have 100 ohm terminators (differential terminators) and
the video card senses those too. One difference is, the HDMI and
DP are sensitive to "capacitance", and even putting an unoccupied and
unwired short connector on the video card faceplate, "triggers detection". >> Which is a false positive if it happens.
Gosh.
Being digital connectors, why don't they use a digital protocol for interrogating the monitor? There is a protocol that tells the card what video resolution parameters the monitor support. EDID.
On 10/15/2023 8:31 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-15 13:13, Paul wrote:
On 10/15/2023 5:16 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote:
*******
The purpose of me telling you to check a screen shot, is Windows
has a peculiar way of recording those. The screenshot shows
the alignment of the two monitors, and the screenshot fills
the areas that don't have data.
+------------++---------+
| || |
| || |
| |+---------+
| | <=== this area filled with a solid colour
+------------+
Once you are used to seeing that, in your screenshots, knowledge
of what your computer is doing at present, becomes second nature.
It would tweak your memory about the second monitor.
Windows uses impedance sensing, to detect monitors. For example,
if the VGA RGB signals have 75 ohm loads on them, the video card tells Windows
there is a load on the VGA. Then, the Display Properties adds
a second rectangle to the screen presentation and so on. for HDMI and DisplayPort,
the channels have 100 ohm terminators (differential terminators) and
the video card senses those too. One difference is, the HDMI and
DP are sensitive to "capacitance", and even putting an unoccupied and
unwired short connector on the video card faceplate, "triggers detection". >>> Which is a false positive if it happens.
Gosh.
Being digital connectors, why don't they use a digital protocol for interrogating the monitor? There is a protocol that tells the card what video resolution parameters the monitor support. EDID.
Not all devices have an EDID. You have to be ready for those.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/tTwkhrr0/no-edid-on-right-hand-monitor.gif
This is the right hand monitor, defaults to 1024x768, or it should do that. Its existence depends solely on impedance detection.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/W3dLNHDx/fake-monitor-for-vid-card.gif
Paul wrote:
On 10/15/2023 8:31 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-15 13:13, Paul wrote:
On 10/15/2023 5:16 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Paul wrote:
*******
The purpose of me telling you to check a screen shot, is Windows
has a peculiar way of recording those. The screenshot shows
the alignment of the two monitors, and the screenshot fills
the areas that don't have data.
+------------++---------+
| || |
| || |
| |+---------+
| | <=== this area filled with a solid colour
+------------+
Once you are used to seeing that, in your screenshots, knowledge
of what your computer is doing at present, becomes second nature.
It would tweak your memory about the second monitor.
Windows uses impedance sensing, to detect monitors. For example,
if the VGA RGB signals have 75 ohm loads on them, the video card tells Windows
there is a load on the VGA. Then, the Display Properties adds
a second rectangle to the screen presentation and so on. for HDMI and DisplayPort,
the channels have 100 ohm terminators (differential terminators) and
the video card senses those too. One difference is, the HDMI and
DP are sensitive to "capacitance", and even putting an unoccupied and
unwired short connector on the video card faceplate, "triggers detection". >>>> Which is a false positive if it happens.
Gosh.
Being digital connectors, why don't they use a digital protocol for interrogating the monitor? There is a protocol that tells the card what video resolution parameters the monitor support. EDID.
Not all devices have an EDID. You have to be ready for those.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/tTwkhrr0/no-edid-on-right-hand-monitor.gif
This is the right hand monitor, defaults to 1024x768, or it should do that. >> Its existence depends solely on impedance detection.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/W3dLNHDx/fake-monitor-for-vid-card.gif
Paul
I've taken a screenshot; and I can't detect anything at all.
Can you?
Monitor 1 is on the right.
https://tinyurl.com/2xde3jfq
Ed
This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.
I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your
chosen charity.
Tbird 115, latest.
It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my
mouse over it.
I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select from
the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs appear ok.
Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
Things I've tried;
System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold reboot, change screen display options.
I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a
re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this
problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
Ed
On 14/10/2023 14:13, Ed Cryer wrote:
This is novel and weird. I've not seen this before.Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed
I find this so challenging that I'm offering a reward; £10 to your
chosen charity.
Tbird 115, latest.
It won't display GUI. Icon on taskbar shows thumbnail when I run my
mouse over it.
I end task, it goes , I click again and the same situation occurs.
There appears to be some interaction with it, because when I select
from the thumbnail "show address book" or "new message", their GUIs
appear ok.
Everything else looks fine. All progs load and unload as normal.
Things I've tried;
System restore, looked for program repair option, googled, cold
reboot, change screen display options.
I can't try disabling add-ons. I might try a safe-mode load or a
re-install; but it strikes me that others must have been hit by this
problem, and maybe contacted Mozilla.
Ed
off. Happily I use Macrium Reflect to make an image of the Windows
partition each month, and I was able to set an image back of the time
before I upgraded Thunderbird. I'm happy now and will never upgrade Thunderbird anymore.
On 2023-10-17 20:48, Fokke Nauta wrote:[...]
Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed off. Happily I use Macrium Reflect to make an image of the Windows partition each month, and I was able to set an image back of the time before I upgraded Thunderbird. I'm happy now and will never upgrade Thunderbird anymore.
You can never say never. :-P
For example, a few years in the future some mail provider might make
changes to the protocol, and old mail programs cease to work in them.
Far fetched?
Gmail did that, demanding people to use Oauth2. And other providers
followed suit.
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-10-17 20:48, Fokke Nauta wrote:[...]
Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed >>> off. Happily I use Macrium Reflect to make an image of the Windows
partition each month, and I was able to set an image back of the time
before I upgraded Thunderbird. I'm happy now and will never upgrade
Thunderbird anymore.
You can never say never. :-P
For example, a few years in the future some mail provider might make
changes to the protocol, and old mail programs cease to work in them.
Far fetched?
Gmail did that, demanding people to use Oauth2. And other providers
followed suit.
I get and agree with your point (and Fokke's), but you can still use
Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age' (60.9.0)
Thunderbird, for three Gmail accounts [1].
To Fokke: See my earlier post on how to stop Thunderbird nagging about available updates (thread "Thunderbird version 115 has arrived! (And it sucks!)", "Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 17:46:16 -0000").
[1] I could tell you *why* I don't use Oauth2, but then I would have to
kill you! :-)
Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed >off.
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-10-17 20:48, Fokke Nauta wrote:[...]
Thunderbird 115 is a disaster. After this update I was completely pissed >>> off. Happily I use Macrium Reflect to make an image of the Windows
partition each month, and I was able to set an image back of the time
before I upgraded Thunderbird. I'm happy now and will never upgrade
Thunderbird anymore.
You can never say never. :-P
For example, a few years in the future some mail provider might make
changes to the protocol, and old mail programs cease to work in them.
Far fetched?
Gmail did that, demanding people to use Oauth2. And other providers
followed suit.
I get and agree with your point (and Fokke's), but you can still use
Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age' (60.9.0)
Thunderbird, for three Gmail accounts [1].
To Fokke: See my earlier post on how to stop Thunderbird nagging about available updates (thread "Thunderbird version 115 has arrived! (And it sucks!)", "Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 17:46:16 -0000").
[1] I could tell you *why* I don't use Oauth2, but then I would have to
kill you! :-)
On 18/10/2023 12:06, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
To Fokke: See my earlier post on how to stop Thunderbird nagging about available updates (thread "Thunderbird version 115 has arrived! (And it sucks!)", "Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 17:46:16 -0000").
Thanks, Frank.
But I can't find your earlier post.
you can still use Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age' (60.9.0) Thunderbird
Frank Slootweg wrote:
you can still use Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age' (60.9.0) Thunderbird
There are those who resist giving google their phone number, in those
cases I believe they can't create an app-specific password for IMAP/SMTP access (that's up to them, presumably the find an alternate provider).
Andy Burns wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
you can still use Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age'
(60.9.0) Thunderbird
There are those who resist giving google their phone number, in those
cases I believe they can't create an app-specific password for IMAP/SMTP
access (that's up to them, presumably the find an alternate provider).
For 2-Step Verification (2SV) [1], you can still use 'Backup codes' in
the "Available seconds step' section.
With 2SV turned on, you can still
create 'App passwords' [2].
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
you can still use Gmail without Oauth2. I'm doing so, in my 'stone age' >>> (60.9.0) Thunderbird
There are those who resist giving google their phone number, in those
cases I believe they can't create an app-specific password for IMAP/SMTP >> access (that's up to them, presumably the find an alternate provider).
For 2-Step Verification (2SV) [1], you can still use 'Backup codes' in the "Available seconds step' section.
but "To use backup codes, 2-Step Verification must be on"
so that isn't an alternative for those not wanting to give google a
phone number.
With 2SV turned on, you can still
create 'App passwords' [2].
I've not looked into it since enabling oAuth2, but at that time, you had
to give them a phone number in order to enable 2SV, in order to get the app-specific passwords ... and for some people, they didn't want to give google a phone number. Also if you disable 2SV it invalidates all app passwords you created while it was enabled.
So I think it does come down to "no phone number, no access to gmail
except via web browser"
Andy Burns wrote:
but "To use backup codes, 2-Step Verification must be on"
Where do you see that sentence? (I have Backup codes, so that's
perhaps why I do not see that sentence.)
That sentence is ambiguous, because in order to *use* backup codes, of
course "2-Step Verification must be on", otherwise there's no point to
have them. But it doesn't say that 2SV must already be on to *create* (generate) backup codes.
so that isn't an alternative for those not wanting to give google a
phone number.
With 2SV turned on, you can still
create 'App passwords' [2].
I've not looked into it since enabling oAuth2, but at that time, you had
to give them a phone number in order to enable 2SV, in order to get the
app-specific passwords ... and for some people, they didn't want to give
google a phone number. Also if you disable 2SV it invalidates all app
passwords you created while it was enabled.
Yes, the latter is true. That's why I'm not going to experiment to
check who of us is (more) correct.
So I think it does come down to "no phone number, no access to gmail
except via web browser"
Maybe yes, maybe no! :-) But seriously, I don't care much either way.
If people - i.e. the Arlen's of this world - are paranoid about giving a phone number, to *use Google services* for crying out loud, I don't have
much sympathy.
BUT, there are other methods for 2SV, other than a phone number, like 'Google Prompts' (needs a phone, but not a phone *number*) and
'Authenticator app' (and, probably not so common, 'Security Key').
Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
2SV is off for me, I can't get to the screen to create backup codes[...]
without turning it [back] on.
2SV must also be on to create app passwords, I do have a recovery phone number set, so could enable 2SV if I wanted.
BUT, there are other methods for 2SV, other than a phone number, like 'Google Prompts' (needs a phone, but not a phone *number*) and 'Authenticator app' (and, probably not so common, 'Security Key').
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 297 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 09:18:56 |
| Calls: | 6,666 |
| Files: | 12,213 |
| Messages: | 5,336,264 |
