Hello
I have a 10 years old homebrew PC running Windows 10. It cannot be
upgraded to 11 because it does not meet the minimum demands. The plan
is to build a new PC, install Windows 11 on it, and activate Windows
11 with the product key from the old Win10 PC. But it takes time
(days) to get the new PC set up with all that is installed on the old
one, so I would like to have the old PC running until the new Win11 PC
is ready.
A question is what to do with activation of the win11 installation? I
suppose that there can be trouble if two pc's are running with the
same product key, so probably best not to activate Win11 before the
Win10 PC is shut down for good. According to Howtogeek.com there are
no real problems running unactivated for some time. So I think I will
try that. Or can I run both PC's activated for som days without any
real trouble?
Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the
upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The
one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
If you managed to read as far as here, I say thank you very much. If
you have any comments they are of course very welcome :-)
Best regards
Iirc, the product key one can find(3rd party software or other
methods)in Windows 10 after upgrading from Win7 to Win10 is a generic
key, ***it is not an activation key***.
When you upgraded from 7 to 10, your pc's Win7 activation carried over
to Win10 and a digital license was assigned.
Afaik, you will need a Win11 product key(license) to activate Win11.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 12:50:37 -0400, "...winston"
<winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
Iirc, the product key one can find(3rd party software or other
methods)in Windows 10 after upgrading from Win7 to Win10 is a generic
key, ***it is not an activation key***.
When you upgraded from 7 to 10, your pc's Win7 activation carried over
to Win10 and a digital license was assigned.
Afaik, you will need a Win11 product key(license) to activate Win11.
Thanks for yor clarification.
If I understand this right, then the route to get Windows 11 on the
new PC will bet to install Windows 10, then activate it with the
product key from the old PC, and at last upgrade 2 Windows 11? Will
this work.
Best regards
On 10/13/2023 2:31 PM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 12:50:37 -0400, "...winston"
<winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
Iirc, the product key one can find(3rd party software or other
methods)in Windows 10 after upgrading from Win7 to Win10 is a generic
key, ***it is not an activation key***.
When you upgraded from 7 to 10, your pc's Win7 activation carried over
to Win10 and a digital license was assigned.
Afaik, you will need a Win11 product key(license) to activate Win11.
Thanks for yor clarification.
If I understand this right, then the route to get Windows 11 on the
new PC will bet to install Windows 10, then activate it with the
product key from the old PC, and at last upgrade 2 Windows 11? Will
this work.
Best regards
About all I can find as an example, is this. When it is "Full Retail", the >license is transferable between PCs. At least, it gives the appearance,
that some Windows 10 transferable materials, existed. We are in the extended >support interval of Windows 10, so that's why supply of boxed software
may have dried up. If a person had installed this version of Windows 10,
it could be transferred to a second PC, then updated to Windows 11.
Microsoft Windows 10 Home - Full Retail Version (USB Flash Drive) $249.00
https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-home/p/N82E16832350411
*******
When you find a System Builder OEM OS product for sale, it is for installation >on one PC, and the license stays with that PC. There are no transfer rights. >The product is cheaper, perhaps half price.
Due to dishonest advertising on the web, this might be advertised as
Microsoft Windows 10 Home (no other descriptors)
when it should be advertised as
Microsoft Windows 10 Home (System Builder OEM)
*******
On the dishonest web, you can find license keys for sale, for all manner
of software products. With <cough> "very low prices".
This is most likely to be where you end up, acquiring a non-transferable >license key. Reliable vendors of such, may have been discussed in this
group in the past -- I do not keep a list, because like house flies,
these companies come and go. If you acquired a Windows 10 this way,
it could be put on your new PC, then upgraded to Windows 11.
****************************************
A new PC could mean a number of things:
1) Home build of Win11 compatible machine (this is what I'm typing on).
You must be able to use a screwdriver to do this.
2) Dell/HP/Acer/Lenovo computer.
Today, some flavor of Windows 11 Home Royalty OEM NonTransferable
would already be on the hard drive. The machine would have a TPM 2 chip,
the processor would support MBEC. (The processor models, there is a list
of compatible processors on the Microsoft site, and the manufacturer
selects from that list, for these retail computers.)
3) Refurbished computer (off lease, re-processed by a refurbisher).
A valid Windows OS is put on the machine, the version of Windows
today would be Windows 10 Pro or Windows 11 Pro perhaps, and this
will be indicated in the advert. A license key is provided, and there
is no reason for the license key to be transferable. The version of
Windows is NOT a royalty OEM SKU, it is closer to a regular Windows
without any added extras. As the purchaser, it is up to you to
analyze whether it is more than three years old. Typical refurbished
computers, at the moment, at best will be quad core.
*******
You can install Windows 11 right now, using
https://rufus.ie/en/
to prepare a USB stick. On one of the dialog pages,
there are tick boxes to "make Windows 11 install on in-compatible equipment". >How this works, is a portion of the ISO image transferred to the
USB key, some Windows 10 installer materials are placed on the key, and
the installation process thinks it is installing Windows 10,
when the install.wim is the Windows 11 one.
The problem with this approach, is when the 23H2 Windows 11 upgrade comes >along, it won't install itself over top of this mess. You would then
have to download the 23H2 ISO9660 and use Rufus again. And I don't know
how well this would work.
You could test the workflow, by placing an original release Win11 on a
USB key and installing over your Win10 on the old machine, then preparing
a second USB key load with Rufus, and installing the second release of Windows 11.
And that would show how practical it is, to work with Windows that way.
Such a scheme, Windows 11 is flexible, in that at boot time, Windows 11 will >shut off subsystems that do not have hardware support. You can even unplug
a Windows 11 hard drive from a compatible machine, and plug it into an >incompatible machine, and it still boots.
My Windows 11, activated, has never used the TPM. A perfectly good TPM 2.0 is >present (plug in MSI-branded module from computer store). I boot in CSM mode >rather than UEFI mode. Only 64-bit is available for Windows 11. The TPM on
my machine, would potentially get used, if I enabled Bitlocker encryption.
It's a very complicated environment to work in.
Solutions range from "Free and Broken", "Dodgy key acquired for $12.80 from web",
to "Hugely expensive Full Retail Windows 11 key for $249.00". That's sort
of the range of solutions.
Windows 11 will also operate without activation and a license key. The >Personalize menu does not work, but the OS is functional at that point.
I do not know how the Microsoft Store will work in such circumstances. >Haven't tested that. See? Yet another half-baked solution.
The manufacturer created this environment on purpose.
Paul
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 15:34:16 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
On 10/13/2023 2:31 PM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 12:50:37 -0400, "...winston"
<winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
Iirc, the product key one can find(3rd party software or other
methods)in Windows 10 after upgrading from Win7 to Win10 is a generic
key, ***it is not an activation key***.
When you upgraded from 7 to 10, your pc's Win7 activation carried over >>>> to Win10 and a digital license was assigned.
Afaik, you will need a Win11 product key(license) to activate Win11.
Thanks for yor clarification.
If I understand this right, then the route to get Windows 11 on the
new PC will bet to install Windows 10, then activate it with the
product key from the old PC, and at last upgrade 2 Windows 11? Will
this work.
Best regards
About all I can find as an example, is this. When it is "Full Retail", the >> license is transferable between PCs. At least, it gives the appearance,
that some Windows 10 transferable materials, existed. We are in the extended >> support interval of Windows 10, so that's why supply of boxed software
may have dried up. If a person had installed this version of Windows 10,
it could be transferred to a second PC, then updated to Windows 11.
Microsoft Windows 10 Home - Full Retail Version (USB Flash Drive) $249.00 >>
https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-home/p/N82E16832350411
*******
When you find a System Builder OEM OS product for sale, it is for installation
on one PC, and the license stays with that PC. There are no transfer rights. >> The product is cheaper, perhaps half price.
Due to dishonest advertising on the web, this might be advertised as
Microsoft Windows 10 Home (no other descriptors)
when it should be advertised as
Microsoft Windows 10 Home (System Builder OEM)
*******
On the dishonest web, you can find license keys for sale, for all manner
of software products. With <cough> "very low prices".
This is most likely to be where you end up, acquiring a non-transferable
license key. Reliable vendors of such, may have been discussed in this
group in the past -- I do not keep a list, because like house flies,
these companies come and go. If you acquired a Windows 10 this way,
it could be put on your new PC, then upgraded to Windows 11.
****************************************
A new PC could mean a number of things:
1) Home build of Win11 compatible machine (this is what I'm typing on).
You must be able to use a screwdriver to do this.
2) Dell/HP/Acer/Lenovo computer.
Today, some flavor of Windows 11 Home Royalty OEM NonTransferable
would already be on the hard drive. The machine would have a TPM 2 chip, >> the processor would support MBEC. (The processor models, there is a list >> of compatible processors on the Microsoft site, and the manufacturer
selects from that list, for these retail computers.)
3) Refurbished computer (off lease, re-processed by a refurbisher).
A valid Windows OS is put on the machine, the version of Windows
today would be Windows 10 Pro or Windows 11 Pro perhaps, and this
will be indicated in the advert. A license key is provided, and there
is no reason for the license key to be transferable. The version of
Windows is NOT a royalty OEM SKU, it is closer to a regular Windows
without any added extras. As the purchaser, it is up to you to
analyze whether it is more than three years old. Typical refurbished
computers, at the moment, at best will be quad core.
*******
You can install Windows 11 right now, using
https://rufus.ie/en/
to prepare a USB stick. On one of the dialog pages,
there are tick boxes to "make Windows 11 install on in-compatible equipment".
How this works, is a portion of the ISO image transferred to the
USB key, some Windows 10 installer materials are placed on the key, and
the installation process thinks it is installing Windows 10,
when the install.wim is the Windows 11 one.
The problem with this approach, is when the 23H2 Windows 11 upgrade comes
along, it won't install itself over top of this mess. You would then
have to download the 23H2 ISO9660 and use Rufus again. And I don't know
how well this would work.
You could test the workflow, by placing an original release Win11 on a
USB key and installing over your Win10 on the old machine, then preparing
a second USB key load with Rufus, and installing the second release of Windows 11.
And that would show how practical it is, to work with Windows that way.
Such a scheme, Windows 11 is flexible, in that at boot time, Windows 11 will >> shut off subsystems that do not have hardware support. You can even unplug >> a Windows 11 hard drive from a compatible machine, and plug it into an
incompatible machine, and it still boots.
My Windows 11, activated, has never used the TPM. A perfectly good TPM 2.0 is
present (plug in MSI-branded module from computer store). I boot in CSM mode >> rather than UEFI mode. Only 64-bit is available for Windows 11. The TPM on >> my machine, would potentially get used, if I enabled Bitlocker encryption. >>
It's a very complicated environment to work in.
Solutions range from "Free and Broken", "Dodgy key acquired for $12.80 from web",
to "Hugely expensive Full Retail Windows 11 key for $249.00". That's sort
of the range of solutions.
Windows 11 will also operate without activation and a license key. The
Personalize menu does not work, but the OS is functional at that point.
I do not know how the Microsoft Store will work in such circumstances.
Haven't tested that. See? Yet another half-baked solution.
The manufacturer created this environment on purpose.
Paul
Thanks Paul.
By "new PC" i mean your alternative 1, a homebuilt Win11 compatible
machine.
The license I run Windows 10 with is legitimate. I bought a Windows 7
install in 2010 from a legal retailer. It is marked as OEM. This ran
for 3 years before all of the hardware, except the cabinet, was
replaced. No problem installing Windows 7 on the new build, even if
it was marked OEM. Later I got a free upgrade to Windows 10. I am not
sure of the details, but I probably downloaded Windows 10 from
Microsoft, installed it on a new SSD, and activated it in some way.
So I hope to be able to arrive with Windows 11 installed on the Win 11 compatible machine I plan to build. If I can't manage to get Win 11 up
and activated in one way or another with the keys or licenses I have,
well then I will buy a legal copy.
Best regards
By "new PC" i mean your alternative 1, a homebuilt Win11 compatible
machine.
The license I run Windows 10 with is legitimate. I bought a Windows 7
install in 2010 from a legal retailer. It is marked as OEM. This ran
for 3 years before all of the hardware, except the cabinet, was
replaced. No problem installing Windows 7 on the new build, even if
it was marked OEM. Later I got a free upgrade to Windows 10. I am not
sure of the details, but I probably downloaded Windows 10 from
Microsoft, installed it on a new SSD, and activated it in some way.
So I hope to be able to arrive with Windows 11 installed on the Win 11 compatible machine I plan to build. If I can't manage to get Win 11 up
and activated in one way or another with the keys or licenses I have,
well then I will buy a legal copy.
On 13/10/2023 21:17, Jesper Kaas wrote:
By "new PC" i mean your alternative 1, a homebuilt Win11 compatible
machine.
The license I run Windows 10 with is legitimate. I bought a Windows 7
install in 2010 from a legal retailer. It is marked as OEM. This ran
for 3 years before all of the hardware, except the cabinet, was
replaced. No problem installing Windows 7 on the new build, even if
it was marked OEM. Later I got a free upgrade to Windows 10. I am not
sure of the details, but I probably downloaded Windows 10 from
Microsoft, installed it on a new SSD, and activated it in some way.
So I hope to be able to arrive with Windows 11 installed on the Win 11
compatible machine I plan to build. If I can't manage to get Win 11 up
and activated in one way or another with the keys or licenses I have,
well then I will buy a legal copy.
Last resort:
https://www.scdkey.com/software/p202204251138247525.html
Just today I upgraded to Win11 a Win10 machine that was non-upgradeable
From the command line (administrator)
I entered. setup /product server
It upgraded just fine and was activated
On Sat, 14 Oct 2023 02:12:28 +0000, philo@news.novabbs.com (philo)
wrote:
Just today I upgraded to Win11 a Win10 machine that was non-upgradeable >>From the command line (administrator)
I entered. setup /product server
It upgraded just fine and was activated
Thanks Philo. I have taken a note of that, to test when I have
installed win10 on the new pc.
Best regards
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 12:50:37 -0400, "...winston"
<winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
Iirc, the product key one can find(3rd party software or other
methods)in Windows 10 after upgrading from Win7 to Win10 is a generic
key, ***it is not an activation key***.
When you upgraded from 7 to 10, your pc's Win7 activation carried over
to Win10 and a digital license was assigned.
Afaik, you will need a Win11 product key(license) to activate Win11.
Thanks for yor clarification.
If I understand this right, then the route to get Windows 11 on the
new PC will bet to install Windows 10, then activate it with the
product key from the old PC, and at last upgrade 2 Windows 11? Will
this work.
Best regards
If the free upgrade W7SP1 --> W10 --> W11 was
still available, and your W7SP1 was treated as a Retail SKU,
then that would have been a success path.
However, a few days ago, it was announced this would
not work any more
W7SP1 --> W10 (is supposed to be disabled now, but you can test of course)
W8.1 --> W10 (is supposed to be disabled now, but you can test of course)
That leaves shopping for a W10, or shopping for a W11.
If a "cheap key" with "retail SKU" properties was
available, I would be surprised. It's more likely
to be non-transferable.
You could also test on the old PC, after making a backup of the disk.
Paul
No.Amen to that, it probaly ends like that. The license will cost
Purchase a Windows 11 license with product key. You don't need to buy
the media, just the license.
Your Win10 key is not for activation, its a placeholder.--
Your Win7 key is no longer capable for upgrading to Win10 or Win11 or >activating Win10 for a later upgrade to Win11 or for use in activating Win11
--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
This is an example of what a user faces, when installing Win7 onHmm. That could be a showstopper for installing Win-7 on the new PC,
brand new PC hardware. If the free upgrade path still worked,
you could use a W10 installer DVD and enter the W7 key. At
least that path, would not fall into the holes waiting for the W7 OS installer disc.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11182/how-to-get-ryzen-working-on-windows-7-x64
Paul
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 23:32:44 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
You could also test on the old PC, after making a backup of the disk.
Paul
Sure? The old PC does not meet the minimum specs for Win11.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 23:32:44 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
You could also test on the old PC, after making a backup of the disk.
Paul
Sure? The old PC does not meet the minimum specs for Win11.
Best regards
On 10/14/2023 2:20 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 23:32:44 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
You could also test on the old PC, after making a backup of the disk.
Paul
Sure? The old PC does not meet the minimum specs for Win11.
Best regards
Well, you have rufus.ie USB stick method, for W11 on non-W11 equipment.
There is a dialog with tick boxes, and some of those boxes make
W11 think your PC is OK. I see there is another version on Oct.12 .
https://rufus.ie/en/
*******
OK, I tested it, on the machine without a TPM.
The Rufus-modified W11 failed to do a W11-over-W10 upgrade.
The Rufus-modified W11 booted the computer and did
a clean install into the C: partition. That worked.
At least a person could evaluate W11, but without
their files and applications moved over.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/dVyx2Kw6/Rufus-Test-Results.gif
Paul
On Sat, 14 Oct 2023 06:27:10 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
On 10/14/2023 2:20 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 23:32:44 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
You could also test on the old PC, after making a backup of the disk.
Paul
Sure? The old PC does not meet the minimum specs for Win11.
Best regards
Well, you have rufus.ie USB stick method, for W11 on non-W11 equipment.
There is a dialog with tick boxes, and some of those boxes make
W11 think your PC is OK. I see there is another version on Oct.12 .
https://rufus.ie/en/
*******
OK, I tested it, on the machine without a TPM.
The Rufus-modified W11 failed to do a W11-over-W10 upgrade.
The Rufus-modified W11 booted the computer and did
a clean install into the C: partition. That worked.
At least a person could evaluate W11, but without
their files and applications moved over.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/dVyx2Kw6/Rufus-Test-Results.gif
Paul
Hi Paul. Thank you for your using time to test and create the reports.
No matter if Windows 11 will run on the old PC with the Rufus-method,
I will build a new PC for Windows 11. The old PC is 10 years old, and
even if it performs OK for our use, some of the hardware is going to
crash, rather sooner than later. So unless installing Win11 on the old
PC can facilitate a free Win11 on the new PC, there is no point in
this exercise.
The Rufus-method is tempting but as you wrote in another post, you
don't know if or when an update to Win11 will spot the Rufus-software
and disable it.
So when I have built the new PC (still not decided on all parts yet),
I will do some attempts to activate Windows 11 on it. If that fails,
buy a license. It costs appr. $260 in Norway. That is 1/4 of what all
the parts will cost.
Best regards
Correct, there is no point in the exercise of using Rufus(or any other >matter) to install Windows 11 on the 10 yr old device that doesn't meet >Windows 11 requirements.Windows 11 Pro is 2699 NKR directly from Microsoft Norway. Home is
Windows 10 Home in Norway should be about 1600-1700 KR, Pro should be
about 2150-2200 KR.
--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the
upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The
one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original
windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage.
Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and activated.
When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and
start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows
serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a
bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do
the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you
can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
On Sat, 14 Oct 2023 12:54:45 -0400, "...winston"
<winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
Windows 11 Pro is 2699 NKR directly from Microsoft Norway. Home is
Correct, there is no point in the exercise of using Rufus(or any other
matter) to install Windows 11 on the 10 yr old device that doesn't meet
Windows 11 requirements.
Windows 10 Home in Norway should be about 1600-1700 KR, Pro should be
about 2150-2200 KR.
--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
1499.
Best regards
On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the
upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The
one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original
windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage.
Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and
activated.
When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and
start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows
serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a
bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do
the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you
can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
Hey GG,
How's life treating you these days? How is Ukraine and now you have
Israel to worry about.
Your method looks good to me but Linux mint is better for most.
On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:Hello Good Guy.
On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the
upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The
one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original
windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage.
Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and
activated.
When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and
start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows
serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a
bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do
the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you
can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
Jesper Kaas wrote:
On Sat, 14 Oct 2023 12:54:45 -0400, "...winston"
<winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
Windows 11 Pro is 2699 NKR directly from Microsoft Norway. Home is
Correct, there is no point in the exercise of using Rufus(or any other
matter) to install Windows 11 on the 10 yr old device that doesn't meet
Windows 11 requirements.
Windows 10 Home in Norway should be about 1600-1700 KR, Pro should be
about 2150-2200 KR.
--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
1499.
 Best regards
That's approx. $246 US for Pro and $137 for Home.
 -I was a bit high on Home and low on Pro
In the US(Microsoft Store) Home is $139 and Pro is $200.
Interesting, the premium price difference for Pro in Norway is more than
the U.S.
FWIW, The place I bought MS Office from for $30, also has Windows 10 Pro
and Windows 11 Pro selling for $30 each. Don't know if that can be done
in Norway, but it is certainly much cheaper than the MS store.
<https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-windows-11-pro>
On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 09:17:37 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
wrote:
FWIW, The place I bought MS Office from for $30, also has Windows 10 Pro
and Windows 11 Pro selling for $30 each. Don't know if that can be done
in Norway, but it is certainly much cheaper than the MS store.
<https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-windows-11-pro>
They are probably criminals. I will not support criminals.
On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 09:17:37 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
wrote:
FWIW, The place I bought MS Office from for $30, also has Windows 10 Pro
and Windows 11 Pro selling for $30 each. Don't know if that can be done
in Norway, but it is certainly much cheaper than the MS store.
<https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-windows-11-pro>
They are probably criminals. I will not support criminals.
On 10/15/2023 10:53 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 09:17:37 -0500, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
wrote:
FWIW, The place I bought MS Office from for $30, also has Windows 10 Pro >>> and Windows 11 Pro selling for $30 each. Don't know if that can be done >>> in Norway, but it is certainly much cheaper than the MS store.
<https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-windows-11-pro>
They are probably criminals. I will not support criminals.
No, we've been through this before here, and I think even Winston agreed
it was legitimate. Set up on my copy of Office went smoothly and I love it. It gets used every single day without any problems. Would do it
again in a heartbeat.
On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 02:00:00 +0000, Chan <chan@invalid.net> wrote:
On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:Hello Good Guy.
On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the
upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The
one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original >>>> windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage.
Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and
activated.
When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and
start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows
serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a
bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do
the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you
can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
Sorry Good Guy, I did not see your post before Chan cited it. I like
your idea, and actually tried something similar for something like 25
years ago: I built a new PC, but used the harddisk from the old PC
just as it was, with windows, programs, everything. At first start of
this rig, I was met with a barrage of errormessages that almost blew
me off my chair. But in spite of my doubt, got it all sorted out, and
the PC ran for years.
I can use Macrium Reflect to install a clone of the old bootdisk in
the new PC, and if it boots and starts windows 10, continue as you
describe. This is a fairly quck test to do.
What talks against this method is that i probaly can't use the old PC anymore, as old and new will run on the same license, I guess. If I
buy a license for the new one, I will have 2 usefull PC's at least
untill Microsoft stops the support for Windows 10. You see, we are two persons using the PC now, often my wife robs the PC, and I sit with a RaspberryPi 4 :-)
I would very much like to hear comments on Good Guys suggestion.
Some hardware details: Old PC has ASUS F2A85-M LE motherboard and AMD
A10 5800 CPU. New PC will probably have MSI B550M motherboard (or
maybe ASUS Prime A520M-AII) and AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU.
Could the chance of success with Good Guys method be increased if both
new and old motherboards are ASUS?
Best regards
On 10/15/2023 7:26 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 02:00:00 +0000, Chan <chan@invalid.net> wrote:
On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:Hello Good Guy.
On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the >>>>> upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The >>>>> one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original >>>>> windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage.
Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and
activated.
When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and >>>> start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows >>>> serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a
bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do >>>> the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you
can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
Sorry Good Guy, I did not see your post before Chan cited it. I like
your idea, and actually tried something similar for something like 25
years ago: I built a new PC, but used the harddisk from the old PC
just as it was, with windows, programs, everything. At first start of
this rig, I was met with a barrage of errormessages that almost blew
me off my chair. But in spite of my doubt, got it all sorted out, and
the PC ran for years.
I can use Macrium Reflect to install a clone of the old bootdisk in
the new PC, and if it boots and starts windows 10, continue as you
describe. This is a fairly quck test to do.
What talks against this method is that i probaly can't use the old PC
anymore, as old and new will run on the same license, I guess. If I
buy a license for the new one, I will have 2 usefull PC's at least
untill Microsoft stops the support for Windows 10. You see, we are two
persons using the PC now, often my wife robs the PC, and I sit with a
RaspberryPi 4 :-)
I would very much like to hear comments on Good Guys suggestion.
Some hardware details: Old PC has ASUS F2A85-M LE motherboard and AMD
A10 5800 CPU. New PC will probably have MSI B550M motherboard (or
maybe ASUS Prime A520M-AII) and AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU.
Could the chance of success with Good Guys method be increased if both
new and old motherboards are ASUS?
Best regards
As a system builder, you know the rule about backing up the hard
drive you intend to be moving around.
If the transition from one box to the other fails, simply restore
the drive you are moving to its original state and try again.
I learned this the hard way, back in Win2K/early WinXP era.
*******
A Windows 10 boot drive can be moved directly from one PC to another.
Matching the motherboard brand, doesn't do anything in this case.
Asus probably has prepared full computers with a SLIC and a
Royalty OEM Windows 7 SKU on the disk drive (their Pegatron division
builds such boxes). This would be similar to how a Dell Windows 7
would have shipped.
But a retail motherboard does not have a valid SLIC.
Only computers with Royalty OEM OSes as the intended delivery
vehicle, have the SLIC injected into the BIOS ACPI table.
A modern Dell would use an MSDM ACPI table, with the license string
in it, and that activates just one version of Windows. Whereas the
SLIC table (10KB or so in size), it might have activated WinXP,
Vista, Windows 7, when a Dell Windows 7 machine shipped. A lack of drivers >might have stopped WinXP from working, in such a case.
*******
In obscure cases, you can place an add-in PCIe card with SATA
connectors in a PC, and use that PCIe card as the "common factor"
between old and new motherboards.
Take my Optiplex 780 refurb as an example. The Optiplexes ship
in RAID Ready mode. This messes up the BIOS behavior royally.
And if you try to select AHCI mode in the BIOS, the damn BIOS
does not even set the chipset properly for that, and it
ends up in Native mode instead (similar to MSIDE perhaps).
OK, so my machine is in the cursed RAID Ready mode.
First, I insert the PCIe SATA card and connect a "dummy data drive"
to the SATA port. This forces Windows 10 to fetch the right driver
for the card (if that is even necessary).
Next, connect the Windows 10 boot drive to the PCIe card,
instead of the dummy data drive. Boot the system at least once.
Now, enter the BIOS and turn off RAID mode. This now makes
no difference, since the Southbridge SATA ports aren't being
used. You can then try and move the drive back to the
Southbridge SATA ports, and boot in a non-RAID mode.
Now, the boot drive is "armed" for the known PCIe SATA card.
Turn off the old machine, move the PCIe card to the new machine,
connect the Win10 drive. It should boot.
This works, because SATA cards like that, have a BIOS ROM for
INT 0x13 read mode, and that is registered with the BIOS at
boot time. This allows the PCIe card to be used as a boot source.
Such a procedure is unnecessary for your project. The original
motherboard is probably in AHCI mode, and the new one will be too.
But it is good to know, that the "bounce" technique can be
used for solving issues involving disk driver type.
Summary: An Add-in SATA card can be used to solve a certain
set of "driver" boot problems, or, make it easier to move
an OS drive, between radically different hardwares. I did succeed
in getting the Optiplex out of RAID Ready mode.
Paul
On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 00:02:15 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
On 10/15/2023 7:26 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 02:00:00 +0000, Chan <chan@invalid.net> wrote:
On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:Hello Good Guy.
On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a
Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in
2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the >>>>>> upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The >>>>>> one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original >>>>>> windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC.
You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and
restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage. >>>>> Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and >>>>> activated.
When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and >>>>> start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows >>>>> serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will
need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a >>>>> bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do >>>>> the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you >>>>> can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
Sorry Good Guy, I did not see your post before Chan cited it. I like
your idea, and actually tried something similar for something like 25
years ago: I built a new PC, but used the harddisk from the old PC
just as it was, with windows, programs, everything. At first start of
this rig, I was met with a barrage of errormessages that almost blew
me off my chair. But in spite of my doubt, got it all sorted out, and
the PC ran for years.
I can use Macrium Reflect to install a clone of the old bootdisk in
the new PC, and if it boots and starts windows 10, continue as you
describe. This is a fairly quck test to do.
What talks against this method is that i probaly can't use the old PC
anymore, as old and new will run on the same license, I guess. If I
buy a license for the new one, I will have 2 usefull PC's at least
untill Microsoft stops the support for Windows 10. You see, we are two
persons using the PC now, often my wife robs the PC, and I sit with a
RaspberryPi 4 :-)
I would very much like to hear comments on Good Guys suggestion.
Some hardware details: Old PC has ASUS F2A85-M LE motherboard and AMD
A10 5800 CPU. New PC will probably have MSI B550M motherboard (or
maybe ASUS Prime A520M-AII) and AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU.
Could the chance of success with Good Guys method be increased if both
new and old motherboards are ASUS?
Best regards
As a system builder, you know the rule about backing up the hard
drive you intend to be moving around.
If the transition from one box to the other fails, simply restore
the drive you are moving to its original state and try again.
I learned this the hard way, back in Win2K/early WinXP era.
*******
A Windows 10 boot drive can be moved directly from one PC to another.
Matching the motherboard brand, doesn't do anything in this case.
Asus probably has prepared full computers with a SLIC and a
Royalty OEM Windows 7 SKU on the disk drive (their Pegatron division
builds such boxes). This would be similar to how a Dell Windows 7
would have shipped.
But a retail motherboard does not have a valid SLIC.
Only computers with Royalty OEM OSes as the intended delivery
vehicle, have the SLIC injected into the BIOS ACPI table.
A modern Dell would use an MSDM ACPI table, with the license string
in it, and that activates just one version of Windows. Whereas the
SLIC table (10KB or so in size), it might have activated WinXP,
Vista, Windows 7, when a Dell Windows 7 machine shipped. A lack of drivers >>might have stopped WinXP from working, in such a case.
*******
In obscure cases, you can place an add-in PCIe card with SATA
connectors in a PC, and use that PCIe card as the "common factor"
between old and new motherboards.
Take my Optiplex 780 refurb as an example. The Optiplexes ship
in RAID Ready mode. This messes up the BIOS behavior royally.
And if you try to select AHCI mode in the BIOS, the damn BIOS
does not even set the chipset properly for that, and it
ends up in Native mode instead (similar to MSIDE perhaps).
OK, so my machine is in the cursed RAID Ready mode.
First, I insert the PCIe SATA card and connect a "dummy data drive"
to the SATA port. This forces Windows 10 to fetch the right driver
for the card (if that is even necessary).
Next, connect the Windows 10 boot drive to the PCIe card,
instead of the dummy data drive. Boot the system at least once.
Now, enter the BIOS and turn off RAID mode. This now makes
no difference, since the Southbridge SATA ports aren't being
used. You can then try and move the drive back to the
Southbridge SATA ports, and boot in a non-RAID mode.
Now, the boot drive is "armed" for the known PCIe SATA card.
Turn off the old machine, move the PCIe card to the new machine,
connect the Win10 drive. It should boot.
This works, because SATA cards like that, have a BIOS ROM for
INT 0x13 read mode, and that is registered with the BIOS at
boot time. This allows the PCIe card to be used as a boot source.
Such a procedure is unnecessary for your project. The original
motherboard is probably in AHCI mode, and the new one will be too.
But it is good to know, that the "bounce" technique can be
used for solving issues involving disk driver type.
Summary: An Add-in SATA card can be used to solve a certain
set of "driver" boot problems, or, make it easier to move
an OS drive, between radically different hardwares. I did succeed
in getting the Optiplex out of RAID Ready mode.
Paul
Hi Paul,
I am a simple tinker with PC's, not anywhere near your level, and try
to make things as simple as posssible, and try to keep the way back
open, in case bad things happen :-)
So I will by no means move the boot ssd from the old pc to the new. It
stays where it sits. The plan is by now as follows:
- take a fresh image of the old pc's bootdisk and put it on a
USB-harddisk.
- connect this usb-disk to the new PC
- Connect a Macrium-rescue USB-stick to the new PC
- restore the image of the old PC's bootdisk to the NVMe of the new PC
Next cross my fingers and fire up the new PC. If it starts up
correctly, see if I can make it upgrade to Windows 11. It will
probably more less by itself downlod drivers for the new motherboard.
If this does not work, I will install Windows 11 on the new PC from an
image I have downloaded. Next buy and download a license from
Microsoft Norway.
So one way or the other there will be a new legal Win 11 PC on the
desk. The parts are not even ordered yet, since I till now only found
ugly cabinets :-)
Thank to all for good help
Best regards
And now this long story came to an end, I think :-)
I got the parts for the new PC, built it, and moved a Macrium-created
image of the old win10 installation to the new PC. At first win10 ran
OK, but would not activate. The disaster hit when drivers for the new motherboard were installed. Those were drivers for Realtek, chipset,
and so on. Windows started up, but came to a blue screen with
different repair-suggestions that I followed and end up with a fresh
install of windows. This ran fine also after the drivers for the new motherboard were installed. But still could not activate windows.
I did 2 tries installing images from the old PC, first one without
internet connected, and the second with internet connected. Both
installs crashed after install of drivers, as you might expect. My
guess is that the drivers from the old Asus motherboard are arguing
big time with the new drivers for the MSI motherboard.
A possible cure: Remove drivers from the old PC before creating the
image? No, that is not for me to do. Next step is installing a fresh
Win11. Had hoped not to have to install everything from scratch.
This experience made me look in to Macriums posssibilities, since an
image is not much worth if you can't even get the files out.
First try was Macriums Restore->Explore Image. This seems fine for
restoring files. Next try was viBoot, but the virtual machine crashed
after something like 75% of the startup. I will try viBoot some more.
I do have a file backup of user files done every day by Second Copy.
That could be obsolete if you can trust Macriums Explore Image.
Best regards
On 10/28/2023 8:27 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:
And now this long story came to an end, I think :-)
I got the parts for the new PC, built it, and moved a Macrium-created
image of the old win10 installation to the new PC. At first win10 ran
OK, but would not activate. The disaster hit when drivers for the new
motherboard were installed. Those were drivers for Realtek, chipset,
and so on. Windows started up, but came to a blue screen with
different repair-suggestions that I followed and end up with a fresh
install of windows. This ran fine also after the drivers for the new
motherboard were installed. But still could not activate windows.
I did 2 tries installing images from the old PC, first one without
internet connected, and the second with internet connected. Both
installs crashed after install of drivers, as you might expect. My
guess is that the drivers from the old Asus motherboard are arguing
big time with the new drivers for the MSI motherboard.
A possible cure: Remove drivers from the old PC before creating the
image? No, that is not for me to do. Next step is installing a fresh
Win11. Had hoped not to have to install everything from scratch.
This experience made me look in to Macriums posssibilities, since an
image is not much worth if you can't even get the files out.
First try was Macriums Restore->Explore Image. This seems fine for
restoring files. Next try was viBoot, but the virtual machine crashed
after something like 75% of the startup. I will try viBoot some more.
I do have a file backup of user files done every day by Second Copy.
That could be obsolete if you can trust Macriums Explore Image.
Best regards
You know that Windows 10 installs its own drivers, right ?
It needs a network connection to get the drivers from microsoft.com .
If can also install drivers, when you move the OS from one
machine to another machine. (Move from AMD machine to Intel machine.)
You can also run Device Manager (devmgmt.msc) and ask the
OS to install a driver for you, and it will look in the
update server for a driver. But you should not have to do that.
*******
A way to prepare an OS for another machine, is to delete the
entire ENUM key which contains all the (previous) device detections.
A Kaspersky Rescue CD, can have a Registry Editor on it, which
is not configured to edit all the registry files. Just some of them.
And you can remove the ENUM key in there.
When the OS is running, the CurrentControlSet is a section of
registry which is a copy of one of the other Control Sets. When the
OS is not running, and you've booted a Kaspersky disc to use the
Registry Editor, there is no CurrentControlSet. Then, it is up to
you to Guess which ControlSet is the one that needs the ENUM removed
from it.
I've tested removal of ENUM on Windows 10, and the OS booted just fine.
It took on the order of an extra minute or so, to install all the
On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 15:11:51 +0200, Jesper Kaas
<jesperk@neitakk.online.no> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 00:02:15 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>And now this long story came to an end, I think :-)
wrote:
On 10/15/2023 7:26 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:Hi Paul,
On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 02:00:00 +0000, Chan <chan@invalid.net> wrote:As a system builder, you know the rule about backing up the hard
On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:Hello Good Guy.
On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as awindows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage. >>>>>> Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed when
Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in >>>>>>> 2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the >>>>>>> upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The >>>>>>> one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original >>>>>>> windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC. >>>>>> You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and >>>>>> restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to
everything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and >>>>>> activated.
When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and >>>>>> start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows >>>>>> serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly
displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will >>>>>> need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a >>>>>> bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do >>>>>> the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you >>>>>> can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
Sorry Good Guy, I did not see your post before Chan cited it. I like
your idea, and actually tried something similar for something like 25
years ago: I built a new PC, but used the harddisk from the old PC
just as it was, with windows, programs, everything. At first start of
this rig, I was met with a barrage of errormessages that almost blew
me off my chair. But in spite of my doubt, got it all sorted out, and
the PC ran for years.
I can use Macrium Reflect to install a clone of the old bootdisk in
the new PC, and if it boots and starts windows 10, continue as you
describe. This is a fairly quck test to do.
What talks against this method is that i probaly can't use the old PC
anymore, as old and new will run on the same license, I guess. If I
buy a license for the new one, I will have 2 usefull PC's at least
untill Microsoft stops the support for Windows 10. You see, we are two >>>> persons using the PC now, often my wife robs the PC, and I sit with a
RaspberryPi 4 :-)
I would very much like to hear comments on Good Guys suggestion.
Some hardware details: Old PC has ASUS F2A85-M LE motherboard and AMD
A10 5800 CPU. New PC will probably have MSI B550M motherboard (or
maybe ASUS Prime A520M-AII) and AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU.
Could the chance of success with Good Guys method be increased if both >>>> new and old motherboards are ASUS?
Best regards
drive you intend to be moving around.
If the transition from one box to the other fails, simply restore
the drive you are moving to its original state and try again.
I learned this the hard way, back in Win2K/early WinXP era.
*******
A Windows 10 boot drive can be moved directly from one PC to another.
Matching the motherboard brand, doesn't do anything in this case.
Asus probably has prepared full computers with a SLIC and a
Royalty OEM Windows 7 SKU on the disk drive (their Pegatron division
builds such boxes). This would be similar to how a Dell Windows 7
would have shipped.
But a retail motherboard does not have a valid SLIC.
Only computers with Royalty OEM OSes as the intended delivery
vehicle, have the SLIC injected into the BIOS ACPI table.
A modern Dell would use an MSDM ACPI table, with the license string
in it, and that activates just one version of Windows. Whereas the
SLIC table (10KB or so in size), it might have activated WinXP,
Vista, Windows 7, when a Dell Windows 7 machine shipped. A lack of drivers >>> might have stopped WinXP from working, in such a case.
*******
In obscure cases, you can place an add-in PCIe card with SATA
connectors in a PC, and use that PCIe card as the "common factor"
between old and new motherboards.
Take my Optiplex 780 refurb as an example. The Optiplexes ship
in RAID Ready mode. This messes up the BIOS behavior royally.
And if you try to select AHCI mode in the BIOS, the damn BIOS
does not even set the chipset properly for that, and it
ends up in Native mode instead (similar to MSIDE perhaps).
OK, so my machine is in the cursed RAID Ready mode.
First, I insert the PCIe SATA card and connect a "dummy data drive"
to the SATA port. This forces Windows 10 to fetch the right driver
for the card (if that is even necessary).
Next, connect the Windows 10 boot drive to the PCIe card,
instead of the dummy data drive. Boot the system at least once.
Now, enter the BIOS and turn off RAID mode. This now makes
no difference, since the Southbridge SATA ports aren't being
used. You can then try and move the drive back to the
Southbridge SATA ports, and boot in a non-RAID mode.
Now, the boot drive is "armed" for the known PCIe SATA card.
Turn off the old machine, move the PCIe card to the new machine,
connect the Win10 drive. It should boot.
This works, because SATA cards like that, have a BIOS ROM for
INT 0x13 read mode, and that is registered with the BIOS at
boot time. This allows the PCIe card to be used as a boot source.
Such a procedure is unnecessary for your project. The original
motherboard is probably in AHCI mode, and the new one will be too.
But it is good to know, that the "bounce" technique can be
used for solving issues involving disk driver type.
Summary: An Add-in SATA card can be used to solve a certain
set of "driver" boot problems, or, make it easier to move
an OS drive, between radically different hardwares. I did succeed
in getting the Optiplex out of RAID Ready mode.
Paul
I am a simple tinker with PC's, not anywhere near your level, and try
to make things as simple as posssible, and try to keep the way back
open, in case bad things happen :-)
So I will by no means move the boot ssd from the old pc to the new. It
stays where it sits. The plan is by now as follows:
- take a fresh image of the old pc's bootdisk and put it on a
USB-harddisk.
- connect this usb-disk to the new PC
- Connect a Macrium-rescue USB-stick to the new PC
- restore the image of the old PC's bootdisk to the NVMe of the new PC
Next cross my fingers and fire up the new PC. If it starts up
correctly, see if I can make it upgrade to Windows 11. It will
probably more less by itself downlod drivers for the new motherboard.
If this does not work, I will install Windows 11 on the new PC from an
image I have downloaded. Next buy and download a license from
Microsoft Norway.
So one way or the other there will be a new legal Win 11 PC on the
desk. The parts are not even ordered yet, since I till now only found
ugly cabinets :-)
Thank to all for good help
Best regards
I got the parts for the new PC, built it, and moved a Macrium-created
image of the old win10 installation to the new PC. At first win10 ran
OK, but would not activate. The disaster hit when drivers for the new motherboard were installed. Those were drivers for Realtek, chipset,
and so on. Windows started up, but came to a blue screen with
different repair-suggestions that I followed and end up with a fresh
install of windows. This ran fine also after the drivers for the new motherboard were installed. But still could not activate windows.
I did 2 tries installing images from the old PC, first one without
internet connected, and the second with internet connected. Both
installs crashed after install of drivers, as you might expect. My
guess is that the drivers from the old Asus motherboard are arguing
big time with the new drivers for the MSI motherboard.
A possible cure: Remove drivers from the old PC before creating the
image? No, that is not for me to do. Next step is installing a fresh
Win11. Had hoped not to have to install everything from scratch.
This experience made me look in to Macriums posssibilities, since an
image is not much worth if you can't even get the files out.
First try was Macriums Restore->Explore Image. This seems fine for
restoring files. Next try was viBoot, but the virtual machine crashed
after something like 75% of the startup. I will try viBoot some more.
I do have a file backup of user files done every day by Second Copy.
That could be obsolete if you can trust Macriums Explore Image.
Best regards
I will try what you describe tomorrow, and be more patient, waiting
for Windows to find drivers.
But that is just for fun. I will never get a free activation of the
cloned Windows on the new PC. I got a message from MIcrosoft on it,
saying that there were so many hardware changes, that they could not
activate it.
So it will be to install Windows 11 and buy a license.
That ENUM thing you talk about; can you say a little more where you
find it in Windows? Googling ENUM gives a lot but nothing that looks
as usefull in this context.
Best regards
On 28/10/2023 13:27, Jesper Kaas wrote:
On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 15:11:51 +0200, Jesper KaasDid you use this?
<jesperk@neitakk.online.no> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 00:02:15 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>And now this long story came to an end, I think :-)
wrote:
On 10/15/2023 7:26 AM, Jesper Kaas wrote:Hi Paul,
On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 02:00:00 +0000, Chan <chan@invalid.net> wrote:As a system builder, you know the rule about backing up the hard
On 14/10/2023 06:30, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:Hello Good Guy.
On 13/10/2023 15:50, Jesper Kaas wrote:
Concerning the product key for Windows 10: This was bought as a >>>>>>>> Windows 7 installation CD in 2010. Installed on a new hardware in >>>>>>>> 2013, and then some years later a free upgrade to Windows 10. In the >>>>>>>> upgrade from 7 to 10, the product key seems to have been changed. The >>>>>>>> one on Win10 is totally different from the one printed on the original >>>>>>>> windows 7 package, but hopefully will activate the new Win 11 PC. >>>>>>> You'll need to create a backup/Clone of your Windows 10 machine and >>>>>>> restore the image on to your new machine. Then you can upgrade to >>>>>>> windows 11 in the new machine. Don't do clean install at this stage. >>>>>>> Don't worry about drivers because they can be installed wheneverything is working normally and AFTER Windows 11 is installed and >>>>>>> activated.
When Windows 11 is activated, you can then perform a clean install and >>>>>>> start installing all the APPS from scratch. You won't need any Windows >>>>>>> serial number if you click the correct link that is not brightly >>>>>>> displayed. You will need to be online when you do this and you will >>>>>>> need a Microsoft Account to do this unless you use Rufus to create a >>>>>>> bootable flash drive. I use balenaEtcher-Portable because I like to do >>>>>>> the correct way. Rufus might be or might not install malware but you >>>>>>> can download and compile the source code yourself to be sure.
Sorry Good Guy, I did not see your post before Chan cited it. I like >>>>> your idea, and actually tried something similar for something like 25 >>>>> years ago: I built a new PC, but used the harddisk from the old PC
just as it was, with windows, programs, everything. At first start of >>>>> this rig, I was met with a barrage of errormessages that almost blew >>>>> me off my chair. But in spite of my doubt, got it all sorted out, and >>>>> the PC ran for years.
I can use Macrium Reflect to install a clone of the old bootdisk in
the new PC, and if it boots and starts windows 10, continue as you
describe. This is a fairly quck test to do.
What talks against this method is that i probaly can't use the old PC >>>>> anymore, as old and new will run on the same license, I guess. If I
buy a license for the new one, I will have 2 usefull PC's at least
untill Microsoft stops the support for Windows 10. You see, we are two >>>>> persons using the PC now, often my wife robs the PC, and I sit with a >>>>> RaspberryPi 4 :-)
I would very much like to hear comments on Good Guys suggestion.
Some hardware details: Old PC has ASUS F2A85-M LE motherboard and AMD >>>>> A10 5800 CPU. New PC will probably have MSI B550M motherboard (or
maybe ASUS Prime A520M-AII) and AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU.
Could the chance of success with Good Guys method be increased if both >>>>> new and old motherboards are ASUS?
Best regards
drive you intend to be moving around.
If the transition from one box to the other fails, simply restore
the drive you are moving to its original state and try again.
I learned this the hard way, back in Win2K/early WinXP era.
*******
A Windows 10 boot drive can be moved directly from one PC to another.
Matching the motherboard brand, doesn't do anything in this case.
Asus probably has prepared full computers with a SLIC and a
Royalty OEM Windows 7 SKU on the disk drive (their Pegatron division
builds such boxes). This would be similar to how a Dell Windows 7
would have shipped.
But a retail motherboard does not have a valid SLIC.
Only computers with Royalty OEM OSes as the intended delivery
vehicle, have the SLIC injected into the BIOS ACPI table.
A modern Dell would use an MSDM ACPI table, with the license string
in it, and that activates just one version of Windows. Whereas the
SLIC table (10KB or so in size), it might have activated WinXP,
Vista, Windows 7, when a Dell Windows 7 machine shipped. A lack of drivers >>>> might have stopped WinXP from working, in such a case.
*******
In obscure cases, you can place an add-in PCIe card with SATA
connectors in a PC, and use that PCIe card as the "common factor"
between old and new motherboards.
Take my Optiplex 780 refurb as an example. The Optiplexes ship
in RAID Ready mode. This messes up the BIOS behavior royally.
And if you try to select AHCI mode in the BIOS, the damn BIOS
does not even set the chipset properly for that, and it
ends up in Native mode instead (similar to MSIDE perhaps).
OK, so my machine is in the cursed RAID Ready mode.
First, I insert the PCIe SATA card and connect a "dummy data drive"
to the SATA port. This forces Windows 10 to fetch the right driver
for the card (if that is even necessary).
Next, connect the Windows 10 boot drive to the PCIe card,
instead of the dummy data drive. Boot the system at least once.
Now, enter the BIOS and turn off RAID mode. This now makes
no difference, since the Southbridge SATA ports aren't being
used. You can then try and move the drive back to the
Southbridge SATA ports, and boot in a non-RAID mode.
Now, the boot drive is "armed" for the known PCIe SATA card.
Turn off the old machine, move the PCIe card to the new machine,
connect the Win10 drive. It should boot.
This works, because SATA cards like that, have a BIOS ROM for
INT 0x13 read mode, and that is registered with the BIOS at
boot time. This allows the PCIe card to be used as a boot source.
Such a procedure is unnecessary for your project. The original
motherboard is probably in AHCI mode, and the new one will be too.
But it is good to know, that the "bounce" technique can be
used for solving issues involving disk driver type.
Summary: An Add-in SATA card can be used to solve a certain
set of "driver" boot problems, or, make it easier to move
an OS drive, between radically different hardwares. I did succeed
in getting the Optiplex out of RAID Ready mode.
Paul
I am a simple tinker with PC's, not anywhere near your level, and try
to make things as simple as posssible, and try to keep the way back
open, in case bad things happen :-)
So I will by no means move the boot ssd from the old pc to the new. It
stays where it sits. The plan is by now as follows:
- take a fresh image of the old pc's bootdisk and put it on a
USB-harddisk.
- connect this usb-disk to the new PC
- Connect a Macrium-rescue USB-stick to the new PC
- restore the image of the old PC's bootdisk to the NVMe of the new PC
Next cross my fingers and fire up the new PC. If it starts up
correctly, see if I can make it upgrade to Windows 11. It will
probably more less by itself downlod drivers for the new motherboard.
If this does not work, I will install Windows 11 on the new PC from an
image I have downloaded. Next buy and download a license from
Microsoft Norway.
So one way or the other there will be a new legal Win 11 PC on the
desk. The parts are not even ordered yet, since I till now only found
ugly cabinets :-)
Thank to all for good help
Best regards
I got the parts for the new PC, built it, and moved a Macrium-created
image of the old win10 installation to the new PC. At first win10 ran
OK, but would not activate. The disaster hit when drivers for the new
motherboard were installed. Those were drivers for Realtek, chipset,
and so on. Windows started up, but came to a blue screen with
different repair-suggestions that I followed and end up with a fresh
install of windows. This ran fine also after the drivers for the new
motherboard were installed. But still could not activate windows.
I did 2 tries installing images from the old PC, first one without
internet connected, and the second with internet connected. Both
installs crashed after install of drivers, as you might expect. My
guess is that the drivers from the old Asus motherboard are arguing
big time with the new drivers for the MSI motherboard.
A possible cure: Remove drivers from the old PC before creating the
image? No, that is not for me to do. Next step is installing a fresh
Win11. Had hoped not to have to install everything from scratch.
This experience made me look in to Macriums posssibilities, since an
image is not much worth if you can't even get the files out.
First try was Macriums Restore->Explore Image. This seems fine for
restoring files. Next try was viBoot, but the virtual machine crashed
after something like 75% of the startup. I will try viBoot some more.
I do have a file backup of user files done every day by Second Copy.
That could be obsolete if you can trust Macriums Explore Image.
Best regards
https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts
Did you use this?
https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts
You know that Windows 10 installs its own drivers, right ?I wanted to try deletion of the ENUM, but had no luck with Kaspersky
It needs a network connection to get the drivers from microsoft.com .
If can also install drivers, when you move the OS from one
machine to another machine. (Move from AMD machine to Intel machine.)
You can also run Device Manager (devmgmt.msc) and ask the
OS to install a driver for you, and it will look in the
update server for a driver. But you should not have to do that.
*******
A way to prepare an OS for another machine, is to delete the
entire ENUM key which contains all the (previous) device detections.
A Kaspersky Rescue CD, can have a Registry Editor on it, which
is not configured to edit all the registry files. Just some of them.
And you can remove the ENUM key in there.
When the OS is running, the CurrentControlSet is a section of
registry which is a copy of one of the other Control Sets. When the
OS is not running, and you've booted a Kaspersky disc to use the
Registry Editor, there is no CurrentControlSet. Then, it is up to
you to Guess which ControlSet is the one that needs the ENUM removed
from it.
I've tested removal of ENUM on Windows 10, and the OS booted just fine.
It took on the order of an extra minute or so, to install all the
"easy" drivers that make the OS work. Thus, the ENUM tree is rebuilt,
as the OS boots.
What is my "fixation" with ENUM ? Well, back in Windows 2K, there was--
a profile manager. It allowed creating a "clean" profile, then moving
a disk to another machine. And it would discover and load drivers into
the new profile. This was intended for "Docking Stations", so when you
sat a laptop down at a Docking Station, you would select your Docking
Station profile. Otherwise, on-the-go, you might select your "Regular" >profile. Well, the thing was, Microsoft did not intend people to move the
OS around using this feature. On the very next OS (WinXP), they removed
the Clean Profile idea, and only allows "Cloning" a profile. But the
practice of manipulating ENUM, continues to this day, and it still works, >even if there isn't really a good reason to be doing it.
If you interfere with the driver installation process, I cannot
predict what will happen.
*******
But as a test, make a clone of your original Win10 drive, bring the
new drive over, and just boot it. It should discover the drivers
on its own. It may take a reboot or two, before it sets to work.
There is no way to predict, how hard it will work on the drivers
either. In the year 2015, it did nothing at all to fix the drivers,
and this function was added after 2015.
It would only activate on its own, if it queries the Microsoft server
and finds a matching activation record for that hardware it is booting.
Paul
On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 20:00:00 +0100, Simon Cohen <MR@invalid.invalid>...and the fresh clone was activated when installed om the new PC. So
wrote:
Did you use this? >>https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-ScriptsHi Simon
Thank very much for the link. It is almost too good to be true, but I
tried it anyway with success :-)
First with the Powershell version. There came a text in red that my
antivirus (Bitdefender) said it was malicious. After a little
hesitation i dropped it and tried the script version. Also here I got >warnings about malicious software, but since it looked like being from >Microsoft I let it run :-) And tada! now I have an activated version
of Windows 10, ready for update to Win11. I ran a Bitdefender scan >afterwards, and that reported a clean machine.
This job is done on the new pc on a clone of Windows 10, not the
actual version running on the old PC. I will think a little about it,
and then take a fresh clone from the old PC and repeat what I have
done in this clone.
Best regards
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
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