Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 15:44:48 -0400, Joel wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
It was actually an employee spouting off, who said that particular
thing, not an official announcement by Microsoft. But it is
interesting how much Win10 changed over the course of its existence,
before Win11's release. When I initially upgraded from 7 to 10, on my
old computer, it supported that hardware quite well, but by the time I
tried putting 20H2 on that machine, after having run Linux for two
years, avoiding the public beta test between 1809 and that version of
Win10, it was a disaster. I needed to build this newer machine, to effectively use Windows again. But that led to being able to upgrade
to 11, which has been fun.
On 4/27/2023 3:50 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 15:44:48 -0400, Joel wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
"Here, why don't you jump in this hole. It's warmer in here"
"Mama, why is the floor moving." "Oh, that's just Microsoft dear."
I think the Windows 10 customers will be perfectly comfortable
until 2025 at least. A couple more years of "the floor ain't movin".
Nobody to mess up your Task Manager (fix CPU graphs!!! --Â do
I have to use my imagination for proper decorations???).
On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 15:44:48 -0400, Joel wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
I may get a virtual machine running 11 at some point, when/if needed.
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
It was actually an employee spouting off, who said that particular
thing, not an official announcement by Microsoft. But it is
interesting how much Win
On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 15:44:48 -0400, Joel wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
On 4/27/2023 3:50 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 15:44:48 -0400, Joel wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
"Here, why don't you jump in this hole. It's warmer in here"
"Mama, why is the floor moving." "Oh, that's just Microsoft dear."
I think the Windows 10 customers will be perfectly comfortable
until 2025 at least. A couple more years of "the floor ain't movin".
Nobody to mess up your Task Manager (fix CPU graphs!!! --Â do
I have to use my imagination for proper decorations???).
  Paul
I may get a virtual machine running 11 at some point, when/if needed.
On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 15:44:48 -0400, Joel wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
Maybe, so, but in this case, it was a meaningless promise. All they
did was change the name of a new release.
On 4/28/2023 10:26 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
Maybe, so, but in this case, it was a meaningless promise. All they
did was change the name of a new release.
The delivery strategy hasn't changed, just the marketing of it.
It's like a bread making factory, where the loaves are
all the same, but you can cut them thick or you can cut them thin.
The other scheme wasn't generating the revenue, so they'll
dribble out OSes instead. Just make an adjustment to the loaf cutter.
Joel wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
It was actually an employee spouting off, who said that particular
thing, not an official announcement by Microsoft. But it is
interesting how much Win
It wasn't a spout off, but a misinterpretation(media and others) and
choice of words(by the developer) with less information and clarity.
At the time of mention, Win10 'was' the last os(being worked on).
On 4/28/2023 10:26 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
Maybe, so, but in this case, it was a meaningless promise. All they
did was change the name of a new release.
The delivery strategy hasn't changed, just the marketing of it.
It's like a bread making factory, where the loaves are
all the same, but you can cut them thick or you can cut them thin.
The other scheme wasn't generating the revenue, so they'll
dribble out OSes instead. Just make an adjustment to the loaf cutter.
  Paul
On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 12:50:25 -0700, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 15:44:48 -0400, Joel wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Yes, I remember, but it was a meaningless thing to say. All it meant
was that new releases of Windows wouldn't get a new name or number.
What Microsoft, or any other software company, calls something is just
a marketing decision. They gave Windows 10 a new number, but it could
just as easily been called 8.2. And Windows 11 could have been called
8.3, or if 10 was called 10, it could have been called 10.1.
What they decide to call something doesn't really reflect how
different it is.
Their promises are written on water.
Maybe, so, but in this case, it was a meaningless promise. All they
did was change the name of a new release.
"Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the
last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10."
- That was the message from Microsoft employee Jerry Nixon, a developer >evangelist speaking at the company's Ignite conference. Nixon was
explaining how Microsoft was launching Windows 8.1 last year, but in the >background it was developing Windows 10.
In the same light, if the same was said today about Win11 *and* Win12(or >whatever it will be called), then Win11 would be the last version of
Window they(MSFT) are working on) until that happens Win10 is still the
'last o/s' they are working on...and now with recent news that 22H2 will
be the last feature update for Win10, the only thing they are working on
the last o/s(Win10) is providing security updates, no more feature updates.
- Note: No more feature updates does not exclude out-of-band updates
to patch or fix something that arises until 2025, nor does it exclude
.NET updates that are integrated within the o/s.
Confusing? Always, but if we learned anything the confusing from their
end hasn't changed much since 1995 and lol...should be expected without
being surprised.
On 2023-04-28 05:10, ...winston wrote:
Joel wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
It was actually an employee spouting off, who said that particular
thing, not an official announcement by Microsoft. But it is
interesting how much Win
It wasn't a spout off, but a misinterpretation(media and others) and
choice of words(by the developer) with less information and clarity.
At the time of mention, Win10 'was' the last os(being worked on).
Microsoft did no effort at all to rectify the misunderstanding.
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-28 05:10, ...winston wrote:They didn't need to, they understood the context in which it was stated.
Joel wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
It was actually an employee spouting off, who said that particular
thing, not an official announcement by Microsoft. But it is
interesting how much Win
It wasn't a spout off, but a misinterpretation(media and others) and
choice of words(by the developer) with less information and clarity.
At the time of mention, Win10 'was' the last os(being worked on).
Microsoft did no effort at all to rectify the misunderstanding.
They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I understood
that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the last one.
On 2023-04-29 02:26, ...winston wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-28 05:10, ...winston wrote:They didn't need to, they understood the context in which it was stated.
At the time of mention, Win10 'was' the last os(being worked on).
Microsoft did no effort at all to rectify the misunderstanding.
They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I understood
that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the last one.
On 4/27/2023 3:50 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 15:44:48 -0400, Joel wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
"Here, why don't you jump in this hole. It's warmer in here"
"Mama, why is the floor moving." "Oh, that's just Microsoft dear."
I think the Windows 10 customers will be perfectly comfortable
until 2025 at least. A couple more years of "the floor ain't movin".
Nobody to mess up your Task Manager (fix CPU graphs!!! -- do
I have to use my imagination for proper decorations???).
Paul
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 10:35:18 -0600, "Buffalo"
<phoney@physco.invalid.net> wrote:
My PC is not up to the Win11 stats so I am just happy to stay with Win10. >>No choice unless I buy a new MB and CPU, at the minimum.
Probably not true. Almost certainly you can upgrade to 11. There are >workarounds available.
My PC is not up to the Win11 stats so I am just happy to stay with Win10.
No choice unless I buy a new MB and CPU, at the minimum.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 10:35:18 -0600, "Buffalo"
<phoney@physco.invalid.net> wrote:
My PC is not up to the Win11 stats so I am just happy to stay with Win10. >>>No choice unless I buy a new MB and CPU, at the minimum.
Probably not true. Almost certainly you can upgrade to 11. There are >>workarounds available.
You're technically right, in that you can bypass the system
requirements to install Win11, but that risks not getting updates down
the road, not something to perform on a system meant for routine use.
The system requirements are an example of Microsoft's tendency to
support newer hardware first, because even if one is still using
Win10, the real hardware needs aren't meaningfully different, the
notion that one could still be running the current builds with 2 GB
RAM is pretty absurd.
Yes, I didn't mean to suggest that using a workaround was a great
idea, just that it wasn't impossible, as Buffalo said. I should have
added that to my message.
On 2023-04-29 02:26, ...winston wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
They didn't need to, they understood the context in which it was stated.It wasn't a spout off, but a misinterpretation(media and others) and
choice of words(by the developer) with less information and clarity.
At the time of mention, Win10 'was' the last os(being worked on).
Microsoft did no effort at all to rectify the misunderstanding.
They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I understood
that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the last one.
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[quoted text muted]
They didn't need to, they understood the context in which it was stated.
They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I understood >that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the last one.
Even if they had at one time said this, the fact is that Win11 is a
free upgrade, albeit not supporting older hardware.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 15:20:22 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I understood that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the last one.
It was the 'last' for several versions after the initial win10
release. I don't think you should hold a grudge for a version
several years after that 'win10 is the last' statement that came out
in good faith years ago. Companies change their marketing strategies
all the time.
The no-new-license promise was kept, for those whose computers were
Windows 11 eligible(*), but the learning-curve one definitely was
not, and neither was the one for minor-version upgrades.
For instance, I bought my Windows 10 desktop machine in December
2021, and if I recall correctly by the following summer Microsoft
admitted that Windows 10 wouldn't be getting any significant new
features. My desktop isn't supported by Windows 11, so I have
hardware that was obsolete in just a few months after I bought it,
because Microsoft decided that getting more money was more important
than keeping its promises.
the fact is that Win11 is a
free upgrade, albeit not supporting older hardware.
Ah yes, that wonderful word "free." If it doesn't support "older
hardware", then the "free upgrade" comes with a cost of hundreds of
dollars.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 19:04:53 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
The no-new-license promise was kept, for those whose computers were >>>>Windows 11 eligible(*), but the learning-curve one definitely was
not, and neither was the one for minor-version upgrades.
For instance, I bought my Windows 10 desktop machine in December
2021, and if I recall correctly by the following summer Microsoft >>>>admitted that Windows 10 wouldn't be getting any significant new >>>>features. My desktop isn't supported by Windows 11, so I have
hardware that was obsolete in just a few months after I bought it, >>>>because Microsoft decided that getting more money was more important >>>>than keeping its promises.
You bought a Win10 box in December 2021 that was not upgradable to >>>Win11?! I upgraded from Win10 to Win11 on a box I built in 2021 on >>>October 4, in my (east coast U.S.) time zone. Clearly, you bought a
real paperweight of a computer. Was it used? If not, who in God's
name sold it to you?
Clearly a real paperweight? An enormous overstatement.
A Windows 10 computer is certainly a usable computer. Moreover many
people with upgradable Windows 10 computers don't upgrade because they >>prefer Windows 10. I prefer Windows 11, but not everyone does.
Think, though, about what kind of specs this, ostensibly new, machine
would have, shortly *after* Win11's release, to come with Win10, but
not be upgradable. The CPU I purchased to build this machine, earlier
that same year, was one generation behind the bleeding edge, but was
multiple generations *newer* than the minimum supported by Win11. Stan >clearly bought a machine that was not remotely up to date, if he
obtained it several months *later* than I amassed the parts for mine.
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
The no-new-license promise was kept, for those whose computers were >>Windows 11 eligible(*), but the learning-curve one definitely was
not, and neither was the one for minor-version upgrades.
For instance, I bought my Windows 10 desktop machine in December
2021, and if I recall correctly by the following summer Microsoft
admitted that Windows 10 wouldn't be getting any significant new
features. My desktop isn't supported by Windows 11, so I have
hardware that was obsolete in just a few months after I bought it,
because Microsoft decided that getting more money was more important
than keeping its promises.
You bought a Win10 box in December 2021 that was not upgradable to
Win11?! I upgraded from Win10 to Win11 on a box I built in 2021 on
October 4, in my (east coast U.S.) time zone. Clearly, you bought a
real paperweight of a computer. Was it used? If not, who in God's
name sold it to you?
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 19:04:53 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
The no-new-license promise was kept, for those whose computers were >>>Windows 11 eligible(*), but the learning-curve one definitely was
not, and neither was the one for minor-version upgrades.
For instance, I bought my Windows 10 desktop machine in December
2021, and if I recall correctly by the following summer Microsoft >>>admitted that Windows 10 wouldn't be getting any significant new >>>features. My desktop isn't supported by Windows 11, so I have
hardware that was obsolete in just a few months after I bought it, >>>because Microsoft decided that getting more money was more important
than keeping its promises.
You bought a Win10 box in December 2021 that was not upgradable to
Win11?! I upgraded from Win10 to Win11 on a box I built in 2021 on
October 4, in my (east coast U.S.) time zone. Clearly, you bought a
real paperweight of a computer. Was it used? If not, who in God's
name sold it to you?
Clearly a real paperweight? An enormous overstatement.
A Windows 10 computer is certainly a usable computer. Moreover many
people with upgradable Windows 10 computers don't upgrade because they
prefer Windows 10. I prefer Windows 11, but not everyone does.
Clearly a real paperweight? An enormous overstatement.
A Windows 10 computer is certainly a usable computer. Moreover many >>>people with upgradable Windows 10 computers don't upgrade because they >>>prefer Windows 10. I prefer Windows 11, but not everyone does.
Think, though, about what kind of specs this, ostensibly new, machine
would have, shortly *after* Win11's release, to come with Win10, but
not be upgradable. The CPU I purchased to build this machine, earlier
that same year, was one generation behind the bleeding edge, but was >>multiple generations *newer* than the minimum supported by Win11. Stan >>clearly bought a machine that was not remotely up to date, if he
obtained it several months *later* than I amassed the parts for mine.
Maybe so, but that's all irrelevant.. I said nothing about specs, nor
about how good it was, I said that it's certainly usable and far from
being a paperweight.
Please avoid such enormous overstatements, even if you mean them >figuratively.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 16:15:53 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 19:04:53 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Clearly, you bought a real paperweight of a computer.
Clearly a real paperweight? An enormous overstatement.
A Windows 10 computer is certainly a usable computer. Moreover many
people with upgradable Windows 10 computers don't upgrade because they
prefer Windows 10. I prefer Windows 11, but not everyone does.
When I ran the compatibility wizard, it said the machine could not be
updated to Windows 11. I wasn't upset, because (1) Win 10 was more
than enough of an adjustment, and (b) I figured I could probably use
one of the publicized methods to convert "ineligible" PCs to Win 11
later, if I really wanted to. But really I don't think that will be >necessary. It does everything I need. It's not easily portable, of
course, but that's why I have a laptop.
As to why it wasn't eligible, since the specs look okay I guess it
doesn't have the right kind of boot controller. TMD? TMX? I can't
remember the acronym off hand.
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.40 GHz
Installed RAM: 16.0 GB (15.9 GB usable)
System type: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Hard drive: 1 TB SSD, less than half full
It's even got an optical drive.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 19:04:53 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >Clearly, you bought a real paperweight of a computer.
Clearly a real paperweight? An enormous overstatement.
A Windows 10 computer is certainly a usable computer. Moreover many
people with upgradable Windows 10 computers don't upgrade because they
prefer Windows 10. I prefer Windows 11, but not everyone does.
My desktop isn't supported by Windows 11, so I have
hardware that was obsolete in just a few months after I bought it,
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
Clearly a real paperweight? An enormous overstatement.
A Windows 10 computer is certainly a usable computer. Moreover many >>>people with upgradable Windows 10 computers don't upgrade because they >>>prefer Windows 10. I prefer Windows 11, but not everyone does.
Think, though, about what kind of specs this, ostensibly new, machine >>would have, shortly *after* Win11's release, to come with Win10, but
not be upgradable. The CPU I purchased to build this machine, earlier >>that same year, was one generation behind the bleeding edge, but was >>multiple generations *newer* than the minimum supported by Win11. Stan >>clearly bought a machine that was not remotely up to date, if he
obtained it several months *later* than I amassed the parts for mine.
Maybe so, but that's all irrelevant.. I said nothing about specs, nor
about how good it was, I said that it's certainly usable and far from
being a paperweight.
Please avoid such enormous overstatements, even if you mean them >figuratively.
How long will his computer have been supported with Win10, before that
ends? Not even *four years*. I'd call that a paperweight.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 15:29:28 -0700, Stan Brown wrote:
My desktop isn't supported by Windows 11, so I have
hardware that was obsolete in just a few months after I bought it,
With reference to Ken Blake's objection to someone's calling this PC
"a real paperweight", I probably shouldn't call the hardware
"obsolete" either. It's obsolete in the sense that it can't run the
latest Windows version, but in the sense that it does everything I
want it to it's very much not obsolete.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 11:47:20 -0400, Joel wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[quoted text muted]
They didn't need to, they understood the context in which it was stated. >>>They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I understood
that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the last one.
Even if they had at one time said this, the fact is that Win11 is a
free upgrade, albeit not supporting older hardware.
Ah yes, that wonderful word "free." If it doesn't support "older
hardware", then the "free upgrade" comes with a cost of hundreds of
dollars.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
Clearly a real paperweight? An enormous overstatement.
A Windows 10 computer is certainly a usable computer. Moreover many
people with upgradable Windows 10 computers don't upgrade because they >>>> prefer Windows 10. I prefer Windows 11, but not everyone does.
Think, though, about what kind of specs this, ostensibly new, machine
would have, shortly *after* Win11's release, to come with Win10, but
not be upgradable. The CPU I purchased to build this machine, earlier
that same year, was one generation behind the bleeding edge, but was
multiple generations *newer* than the minimum supported by Win11. Stan
clearly bought a machine that was not remotely up to date, if he
obtained it several months *later* than I amassed the parts for mine.
Maybe so, but that's all irrelevant.. I said nothing about specs, nor
about how good it was, I said that it's certainly usable and far from
being a paperweight.
Please avoid such enormous overstatements, even if you mean them
figuratively.
How long will his computer have been supported with Win10, before that
ends? Not even *four years*. I'd call that a paperweight.
On 2023-04-29 02:26, ...winston wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-28 05:10, ...winston wrote:They didn't need to, they understood the context in which it was stated.
Joel wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature >>>>>>> update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10 >>>>>> would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
It was actually an employee spouting off, who said that particular
thing, not an official announcement by Microsoft. But it is
interesting how much Win
It wasn't a spout off, but a misinterpretation(media and others) and
choice of words(by the developer) with less information and clarity.
At the time of mention, Win10 'was' the last os(being worked on).
Microsoft did no effort at all to rectify the misunderstanding.
They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I understood
that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the last one.
As I recall things, that was the historical context. Microsoft
promised that Windows 10 was the last _major_ release, so everyone
knew they would not have to buy yet another license to keep using
Windows on the same hardware, and they had the idea that they weren't
going to have to go through any more steep learning curves. Our
understanding was that while it would still be Windows 10, _minor-
version_ upgrades would continue to arrive.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 16:15:53 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 19:04:53 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Clearly, you bought a real paperweight of a computer.
Clearly a real paperweight? An enormous overstatement.
A Windows 10 computer is certainly a usable computer. Moreover many
people with upgradable Windows 10 computers don't upgrade because they
prefer Windows 10. I prefer Windows 11, but not everyone does.
When I ran the compatibility wizard, it said the machine could not be
updated to Windows 11. I wasn't upset, because (1) Win 10 was more
than enough of an adjustment, and (b) I figured I could probably use
one of the publicized methods to convert "ineligible" PCs to Win 11
later, if I really wanted to. But really I don't think that will be necessary. It does everything I need. It's not easily portable, of
course, but that's why I have a laptop.
As to why it wasn't eligible, since the specs look okay I guess it
doesn't have the right kind of boot controller. TMD? TMX? I can't
remember the acronym off hand.
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.40 GHz
Installed RAM: 16.0 GB (15.9 GB usable)
System type: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Hard drive: 1 TB SSD, less than half full
It's even got an optical drive.
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.40 GHz
Installed RAM: 16.0 GB (15.9 GB usable)
System type: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Hard drive: 1 TB SSD, less than half full
It's even got an optical drive.
Look at the CPU, third generation Intel, not even *close* to Win11
material, although you'll be running Win10 easily with those specs.
But only till 2025.
Stan Brown wrote:
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.40 GHz
Installed RAM: 16.0 GB (15.9 GB usable)
System type: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Hard drive: 1 TB SSD, less than half full
It's even got an optical drive.
Certain about that i7-3770?
i7-3770 was released in 2012
No response required, though am surprised a device purchased(as new)with Win10/i-7 3770 in 2021 is quite unusual. If refurbished as a new device,
that would be a higher possibility.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 21:05:26 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Look at the CPU, third generation Intel, not even *close* to Win11 >material, although you'll be running Win10 easily with those specs.
But only till 2025.
Windows 10 doesn't magically stop working in 2025. XP, Vista, 7, and 8.x
all work as well as they ever did. No magic date made them stop working.
The same will be true for 10.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 23:18:59 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 21:05:26 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Look at the CPU, third generation Intel, not even *close* to Win11
material, although you'll be running Win10 easily with those specs.
But only till 2025.
Windows 10 doesn't magically stop working in 2025. XP, Vista, 7, and 8.x
all work as well as they ever did. No magic date made them stop working.
The same will be true for 10.
Exactly! I don't know why people assume that "end of support" means
"end of usability". People spreading FUD on this point are doing a
disservice to ordinary users who are technically unsophisticated.
FWIW, Windows Defender on my Windows 8.1 laptop is still getting
virus updates.
"Paul"Â wrote in message news:u2ekg7$22i0i$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/27/2023 3:50 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 15:44:48 -0400, Joel wrote:
Microsoft says Windows 10, version 22H2 will be the last feature
update to be released for the Windows 10 operating system.
Anybody but me remember Microsoft saying repeatedly that Windows 10
would be the last version of Windows?
Their promises are written on water.
"Here, why don't you jump in this hole. It's warmer in here"
"Mama, why is the floor moving." "Oh, that's just Microsoft dear."
I think the Windows 10 customers will be perfectly comfortable
until 2025 at least. A couple more years of "the floor ain't movin".
Nobody to mess up your Task Manager (fix CPU graphs!!! --Â do
I have to use my imagination for proper decorations???).
  Paul
I like your thinking !! :)
My PC is not up to the Win11 stats so I am just happy to stay with Win10.
No choice unless I buy a new MB and CPU, at the minimum. Then different
RAM etc.  "aarrrgggh"
On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 00:17:51 -0400, ...winston wrote:
Stan Brown wrote:
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.40 GHz
Installed RAM: 16.0 GB (15.9 GB usable)
System type: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Hard drive: 1 TB SSD, less than half full
It's even got an optical drive.
Certain about that i7-3770?
i7-3770 was released in 2012
No response required, though am surprised a device purchased(as new)with
Win10/i-7 3770 in 2021 is quite unusual. If refurbished as a new device,
that would be a higher possibility.
Well, I didn't verify it for myself. But that's what the Settings » System » About panel shows.
Yes, it was a refurb from Discount Electronics, about which I've
posted before. Most of their stock comes from machines turned in at
the end of corporate leases.
It seems quite fast to me, despite having the older chip, faster than
the Windows 11 laptop with a 12th gen i7 and an SSD.
On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 00:17:51 -0400, ...winston wrote:
Stan Brown wrote:
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.40 GHz
Installed RAM: 16.0 GB (15.9 GB usable)
System type: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Hard drive: 1 TB SSD, less than half full
It's even got an optical drive.
Certain about that i7-3770?
i7-3770 was released in 2012
No response required, though am surprised a device purchased(as new)with
Win10/i-7 3770 in 2021 is quite unusual. If refurbished as a new device,
that would be a higher possibility.
Well, I didn't verify it for myself. But that's what the Settings » System » About panel shows.
Yes, it was a refurb from Discount Electronics, about which I've
posted before. Most of their stock comes from machines turned in at
the end of corporate leases.
It seems quite fast to me, despite having the older chip, faster than
the Windows 11 laptop with a 12th gen i7 and an SSD.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 14:50:18 +0100, mechanic wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 15:20:22 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I
understood that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the
last one.
It was the 'last' for several versions after the initial win10
release. I don't think you should hold a grudge for a version
several years after that 'win10 is the last' statement that came
out in good faith years ago. Companies change their marketing
strategies all the time.
Call a spade a space. They don't just "change their marketing
strategies", they _break_their_promises_ to their customers.
Just because a thing happens, doesn't mean it's right.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 15:31:18 -0700, Stan Brown wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 14:50:18 +0100, mechanic wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 15:20:22 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I
understood that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the
last one.
It was the 'last' for several versions after the initial win10
release. I don't think you should hold a grudge for a version
several years after that 'win10 is the last' statement that came
out in good faith years ago. Companies change their marketing
strategies all the time.
Call a spade a space. They don't just "change their marketing
strategies", they _break_their_promises_ to their customers.
Just because a thing happens, doesn't mean it's right.
Just because a promise is broken doesn't make it a lie. People learn
to accept such 'promises' with a dose of salts. It's only children
we're told not to lie to. Any children on here?
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 21:05:26 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.40 GHz
Installed RAM: 16.0 GB (15.9 GB usable)
System type: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Hard drive: 1 TB SSD, less than half full
It's even got an optical drive.
Look at the CPU, third generation Intel, not even *close* to Win11 >>material, although you'll be running Win10 easily with those specs.
But only till 2025.
Windows 10 doesn't magically stop working in 2025. XP, Vista, 7, and 8.x
all work as well as they ever did. No magic date made them stop working.
The same will be true for 10.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 23:18:59 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 21:05:26 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Look at the CPU, third generation Intel, not even *close* to Win11
material, although you'll be running Win10 easily with those specs.
But only till 2025.
Windows 10 doesn't magically stop working in 2025. XP, Vista, 7, and 8.x
all work as well as they ever did. No magic date made them stop working.
The same will be true for 10.
Exactly! I don't know why people assume that "end of support" means
"end of usability". People spreading FUD on this point are doing a >disservice to ordinary users who are technically unsophisticated.
FWIW, Windows Defender on my Windows 8.1 laptop is still getting
virus updates.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 10:35:18 -0600, "Buffalo"
<phoney@physco.invalid.net> wrote:
My PC is not up to the Win11 stats so I am just happy to stay with Win10. >>> No choice unless I buy a new MB and CPU, at the minimum.
Probably not true. Almost certainly you can upgrade to 11. There are
workarounds available.
You're technically right, in that you can bypass the system
requirements to install Win11, but that risks not getting updates down
the road, not something to perform on a system meant for routine use.
The system requirements are an example of Microsoft's tendency to
support newer hardware first, because even if one is still using
Win10, the real hardware needs aren't meaningfully different, the
notion that one could still be running the current builds with 2 GB
RAM is pretty absurd.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 11:47:20 -0400, Joel wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[quoted text muted]
They didn't need to, they understood the context in which it was stated.
They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I understood >that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the last one.
Even if they had at one time said this, the fact is that Win11 is a
free upgrade, albeit not supporting older hardware.
Ah yes, that wonderful word "free." If it doesn't support "older
hardware", then the "free upgrade" comes with a cost of hundreds of
dollars.
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 11:47:20 -0400, Joel wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[quoted text muted]
They didn't need to, they understood the context in which it was stated. >>>>They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I understood >>>> that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the last one.
Even if they had at one time said this, the fact is that Win11 is a
free upgrade, albeit not supporting older hardware.
Ah yes, that wonderful word "free." If it doesn't support "older
hardware", then the "free upgrade" comes with a cost of hundreds of
dollars.
Exactly. There is no reason, technical or otherwise, that Windows 11
could not have been made to run on "older hardware". There is no reason
to limit it to only selected new CPUs and only to systems with TPM.
These are artificial limitations, meant to sell hardware, period.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 19:04:53 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
The no-new-license promise was kept, for those whose computers were >>>Windows 11 eligible(*), but the learning-curve one definitely was
not, and neither was the one for minor-version upgrades.
For instance, I bought my Windows 10 desktop machine in December
2021, and if I recall correctly by the following summer Microsoft >>>admitted that Windows 10 wouldn't be getting any significant new >>>features. My desktop isn't supported by Windows 11, so I have
hardware that was obsolete in just a few months after I bought it, >>>because Microsoft decided that getting more money was more important >>>than keeping its promises.
You bought a Win10 box in December 2021 that was not upgradable to >>Win11?! I upgraded from Win10 to Win11 on a box I built in 2021 on >>October 4, in my (east coast U.S.) time zone. Clearly, you bought a
real paperweight of a computer. Was it used? If not, who in God's
name sold it to you?
Clearly a real paperweight? An enormous overstatement.
A Windows 10 computer is certainly a usable computer. Moreover many
people with upgradable Windows 10 computers don't upgrade because they >prefer Windows 10. I prefer Windows 11, but not everyone does.
Think, though, about what kind of specs this, ostensibly new, machine
would have, shortly *after* Win11's release, to come with Win10, but
not be upgradable.
The CPU I purchased to build this machine, earlier
that same year, was one generation behind the bleeding edge, but was
multiple generations *newer* than the minimum supported by Win11. Stan clearly bought a machine that was not remotely up to date, if he
obtained it several months *later* than I amassed the parts for mine.
Exactly. There is no reason, technical or otherwise, that Windows 11
could not have been made to run on "older hardware". There is no reason
to limit it to only selected new CPUs and only to systems with TPM.
These are artificial limitations, meant to sell hardware, period.
On 30/04/2023 20:08, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Exactly. There is no reason, technical or otherwise, that Windows 11
could not have been made to run on "older hardware". There is no reason
to limit it to only selected new CPUs and only to systems with TPM.
These are artificial limitations, meant to sell hardware, period.
Microsoft doesn't make raw hardware so there is no financial interest as
far as Microsoft is concerned. Microsoft surface PCs are made from
hardware manufactured by Intel, AMD and perhaps others. Microsoft is
only in-charge of assemblies.
The reason Windows 11 requires enhanced hardware requirements is because >there might be plans for the future to increase security. Don't forget >Microsoft operating system is under constant attacks by its enemies to >destroy its reputation so Microsoft needs to take appropriate actions to >protect itself and its reputation.
More security features will follow after 2025 and I won't be surprised
if some form of subscription model is introduced to make sure people are >properly registered and known to Microsoft. At the moment nobody knows
who is running Windows because hackers and pirates are masking their >identities by using free VPN services and Microsoft enemies in the west
are facilitating this by operating VPN services.
On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 20:49:12 +0100, Johnny Misco <invalid@invalid.net>
wrote:
On 30/04/2023 20:08, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Exactly. There is no reason, technical or otherwise, that Windows 11 >>> could not have been made to run on "older hardware". There is no reason
to limit it to only selected new CPUs and only to systems with TPM.
These are artificial limitations, meant to sell hardware, period.
Microsoft doesn't make raw hardware so there is no financial interest as
far as Microsoft is concerned. Microsoft surface PCs are made from
hardware manufactured by Intel, AMD and perhaps others. Microsoft is
only in-charge of assemblies.
No financial interest? That's clearly not the case.
If Microsoft, or anyone else buys components for $100, adds $50 of
labor, and sells the result for $200, they've made $50 (made up
numbers, just as an example).
The same is true of Dell, and other OEMs. They buy components, add
labor and sell the result for more than they spent.
Moreover, Microsoft's financial interest with hardware is not
primarily with things like Surface PCs they sell. They sell Windows to
OEMs to install on the PCs the OEMs sell. The more computers that Dell
or other OEMs sell, the more copies of Windows are sold and the more
money Microsoft makes.
The reason Windows 11 requires enhanced hardware requirements is because
there might be plans for the future to increase security. Don't forget
Microsoft operating system is under constant attacks by its enemies to
destroy its reputation so Microsoft needs to take appropriate actions to
protect itself and its reputation.
More security features will follow after 2025 and I won't be surprised
if some form of subscription model is introduced to make sure people are
properly registered and known to Microsoft. At the moment nobody knows
who is running Windows because hackers and pirates are masking their
identities by using free VPN services and Microsoft enemies in the west
are facilitating this by operating VPN services.
On 30/04/2023 20:08, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:Forget the period.
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 11:47:20 -0400, Joel wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[quoted text muted]
They didn't need to, they understood the context in which it was
stated.
They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I
understood
that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the last one.
Even if they had at one time said this, the fact is that Win11 is a
free upgrade, albeit not supporting older hardware.
Ah yes, that wonderful word "free." If it doesn't support "older
hardware", then the "free upgrade" comes with a cost of hundreds of
dollars.
  Exactly. There is no reason, technical or otherwise, that Windows 11
could not have been made to run on "older hardware". There is no reason
to limit it to only selected new CPUs and only to systems with TPM.
These are artificial limitations, meant to sell hardware, period.
Each new machine will have Windows installed - with a new OEM licence
bought from Microsoft.
OEM
cost per license, since volume based and OEM non-transferrable is very
small part of price of a pc.
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 11:47:20 -0400, Joel wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[quoted text muted]
They didn't need to, they understood the context in which it was stated. >>>>They might, the public didn't. I didn't. Till this thread, I understood >>>> that M$ lied on their promise that W10 would be the last one.
Even if they had at one time said this, the fact is that Win11 is a
free upgrade, albeit not supporting older hardware.
Ah yes, that wonderful word "free." If it doesn't support "older
hardware", then the "free upgrade" comes with a cost of hundreds of
dollars.
Exactly. There is no reason, technical or otherwise, that Windows 11
could not have been made to run on "older hardware". There is no reason
to limit it to only selected new CPUs and only to systems with TPM.
These are artificial limitations, meant to sell hardware, period.
N.B. I was 'lucky' that my "old hardware" - laptop - (effectively)
'died', so I had to buy new anyway. But SWMBO's still works, so that's
an upcoming expense in the pipeline.
[...]
Exactly. There is no reason, technical or otherwise, that Windows 11
could not have been made to run on "older hardware". There is no reason
to limit it to only selected new CPUs and only to systems with TPM.
These are artificial limitations, meant to sell hardware, period.
The reason Windows 11 requires enhanced hardware requirements is
because there might be plans for the future to increase security.
Don't forget Microsoft operating system is under constant attacks
by its enemies to destroy its reputation so Microsoft needs to
take appropriate actions to protect itself and its reputation.
On 30/04/2023 20:08, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Exactly. There is no reason, technical or otherwise, that Windows 11 could not have been made to run on "older hardware". There is no reason
to limit it to only selected new CPUs and only to systems with TPM.
These are artificial limitations, meant to sell hardware, period.
Microsoft doesn't make raw hardware so there is no financial interest as
far as Microsoft is concerned. Microsoft surface PCs are made from
hardware manufactured by Intel, AMD and perhaps others. Microsoft is
only in-charge of assemblies.
The reason Windows 11 requires enhanced hardware requirements is because there might be plans for the future to increase security. Don't forget Microsoft operating system is under constant attacks by its enemies to destroy its reputation so Microsoft needs to take appropriate actions to protect itself and its reputation.
More security features will follow after 2025 and I won't be surprised
if some form of subscription model is introduced to make sure people are properly registered and known to Microsoft. At the moment nobody knows
who is running Windows because hackers and pirates are masking their identities by using free VPN services and Microsoft enemies in the west
are facilitating this by operating VPN services.
On 30 Apr 2023 19:08:20 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Exactly. There is no reason, technical or otherwise, that Windows 11
could not have been made to run on "older hardware". There is no reason
to limit it to only selected new CPUs and only to systems with TPM.
These are artificial limitations, meant to sell hardware, period.
Well there's no doubt that developments in security for operating
systems are being ramped up, with HVCI/VBS features being gradually introduced as defaults in new machines. It would be too cynical to
put that down as purely a sales driven move.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-11-gaming-benchmarks-performance-vbs-hvci-security
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-vbs
There are always those who look back fondly to the steam-driven
16-bit machine era, progress always causes discontent!
On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 20:49:12 +0100, Johnny Misco wrote:
The reason Windows 11 requires enhanced hardware requirements is
because there might be plans for the future to increase security.
Don't forget Microsoft operating system is under constant attacks
by its enemies to destroy its reputation so Microsoft needs to
take appropriate actions to protect itself and its reputation.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/394823/why-windows-11-is-leaving-so-many-pcs-behind.html
Virtualisation is the future! Talk of TMP is missing the point.
On 30 Apr 2023 19:08:20 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Exactly. There is no reason, technical or otherwise, that Windows 11
could not have been made to run on "older hardware". There is no reason
to limit it to only selected new CPUs and only to systems with TPM.
These are artificial limitations, meant to sell hardware, period.
Well there's no doubt that developments in security for operating
systems are being ramped up, with HVCI/VBS features being gradually introduced as defaults in new machines. It would be too cynical to
put that down as purely a sales driven move.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-11-gaming-benchmarks-performance-vbs-hvci-security
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-vbs
There are always those who look back fondly to the steam-driven
16-bit machine era, progress always causes discontent!
Well, I've been running Windows 11 for what, a year or so,
and the TPM has not been used even once. It's like a dead
parrot sketch. (This is because the BIOS is set to
UEFI/CSM, for broad compatibility with the "stuff" that
boots on it. Every machine here is an experiment.)
  Paul:)
Microsoft doesn't make raw hardware so there is no financial interest as
far as Microsoft is concerned.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 297 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
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