I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
On 2023-03-26 18:33, Minoru Osaka wrote:
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
If you search on this group (windows-11), going back a year or more, for
the word "account" in the Subject line you will find a few posts.
On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 19:25:38 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-26 18:33, Minoru Osaka wrote:
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to
Windows 11. I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under
any circumstances. If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must
I establish a M$ Account?
If you search on this group (windows-11), going back a year or
more, for the word "account" in the Subject line you will find a
few posts.
All I want is a yes or no if you've done it as I do not want to
create an account and then delete it or to have to do any strange
things at all.
As long as it will let me switch from Windows 10 to 11 without
creating any account and without having to do strange unfamiliar
things other than to hit the "no I do not want to create an account"
button, I'm OK with that.
Is it as easy as you intimate in that there is an obivous "SKIP"
button?
If you search on this group (windows-11)
On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 04:03:32 +0900
Minoru Osaka <minoru.osaka@asahi.net> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 19:25:38 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-26 18:33, Minoru Osaka wrote:
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to
Windows 11. I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under
any circumstances. If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must
I establish a M$ Account?
If you search on this group (windows-11), going back a year or
more, for the word "account" in the Subject line you will find a
few posts.
All I want is a yes or no if you've done it as I do not want to
create an account and then delete it or to have to do any strange
things at all.
As long as it will let me switch from Windows 10 to 11 without
creating any account and without having to do strange unfamiliar
things other than to hit the "no I do not want to create an account"
button, I'm OK with that.
Is it as easy as you intimate in that there is an obivous "SKIP"
button?
Your answer is here:
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-account
I don't use Windows. I think it's disgusting to just look at.
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
If you search on this group (windows-11)
Given many usenet nntp servers automatically expire articles quickly,
and given most newsgroups are archived by Google but not this one,
what web search engine do you suggest for archives of this newsgroup?
On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 19:25:38 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-26 18:33, Minoru Osaka wrote:
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows
11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$
Account?
If you search on this group (windows-11), going back a year or more,
for the word "account" in the Subject line you will find a few posts.
All I want is a yes or no if you've done it as I do not want to create an account and then delete it or to have to do any strange things at all.
As long as it will let me switch from Windows 10 to 11 without creating any account and without having to do strange unfamiliar things other than to
hit the "no I do not want to create an account" button, I'm OK with that.
Is it as easy as you intimate in that there is an obivous "SKIP" button?
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
If you search on this group (windows-11)
Given many usenet nntp servers automatically expire articles quickly,
and given most newsgroups are archived by Google but not this one,
what web search engine do you suggest for archives of this newsgroup?
Summary: The only real question you have to ask, is whether
there is any benefit whatsoever, from Windows 11 for a user.
They keep breaking stuff via Windows Update, and that makes
the experience a negative one. This OS is just a toy,
for their development team.
Do not use Rufus and click the four boxes.
Paul
which was also posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10, so it will be in Google Groups.
On 3/26/2023 3:06 PM, Peter wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
If you search on this group (windows-11)
Given many usenet nntp servers automatically expire articles quickly,
and given most newsgroups are archived by Google but not this one,
what web search engine do you suggest for archives of this newsgroup?
Let's test.
This is as far back as I can go right now, on Eternal-September.
15 May 2022
<t5rtfn$b70c$1@news.mixmin.net>
Carlos E.R. wrote:
which was also posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10, so it will be in
Google Groups.
Hi Carlos,
When you say it will be "in Google Groups", did you check it first?
Try these three URLs please... in what you term "google groups"
please... alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Specifically:
<http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.os.windows-11> <http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.os.windows-10> <http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows>
If _that_ is what you mean by being "in google groups", it's not.
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
On 2023-03-26 23:34, Andy Burnelli wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
which was also posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10, so it will be in Google Groups.
Hi Carlos,
When you say it will be "in Google Groups", did you check it first?
Try these three URLs please... in what you term "google groups" please... alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Specifically:
<http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.os.windows-11>
<http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.os.windows-10>
<http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows>
If _that_ is what you mean by being "in google groups", it's not.
It is not my fault that google groups is broken. And it was not me who said that alt.comp.os.windows-10 is in google groups but alt.comp.os.windows-11 is not.
Of course I did not check.
Google Groups stopped adding groups, some time ago.
It has added a ton of its own private groups.
Which nobody cares about.
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
Paul wrote:
Google Groups stopped adding groups, some time ago.
It has added a ton of its own private groups.
Which nobody cares about.
Which was well before Google changed their archival links to something easy to remember, but when the "N" archives used exactly those monikers, namely: <https://alt.comp.microsoft.windows.narchive.com> <https://microsoft.public.windowsxp.general.narchive.com> <https://alt.comp.os.windows-11.narchive.com> <https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narchive.com> <https://alt.comp.os.windows-8.narchive.com>
What I had created were tinyurl links which were the best I could do then:
<https://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-microsoft-windows> <https://tinyurl.com/microsoft-public-windowsxp-gen> (30-character limit)
I also had created an easier URL:<https://tinyurl.com/windowsxp-general> <alt.comp.os.windows-11> At the time this didn't exist for me to set up <https://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10>
Which, after the great reshuffling, currently boil down to the following
much easier to remember and logically derived Google Groups search links: <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows>
<https://groups.google.com/g/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general> <alt.comp.os.windows-11>
<alt.comp.os.windows-10>
<alt.comp.os.windows-8>
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.msdos.batch> <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.os.linux> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.ipad> <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone> <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware>
etc.
In summary, I "think" Google _does_ add groups when _they_ see fit.
They just do NOT see fit to add Windows variants as archived groups.
On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 19:25:38 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-26 18:33, Minoru Osaka wrote:
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows
11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$
Account?
If you search on this group (windows-11), going back a year or more,
for the word "account" in the Subject line you will find a few posts.
All I want is a yes or no if you've done it as I do not want to create an account and then delete it or to have to do any strange things at all.
As long as it will let me switch from Windows 10 to 11 without creating any account and without having to do strange unfamiliar things other than to
hit the "no I do not want to create an account" button, I'm OK with that.
Is it as easy as you intimate in that there is an obivous "SKIP" button?
On 2023-03-26 22:41, Paul wrote:
On 3/26/2023 3:06 PM, Peter wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
If you search on this group (windows-11)
Given many usenet nntp servers automatically expire articles quickly,
and given most newsgroups are archived by Google but not this one,
what web search engine do you suggest for archives of this newsgroup?
Let's test.
This is as far back as I can go right now, on Eternal-September.
15 May 2022
<t5rtfn$b70c$1@news.mixmin.net>
I have, locally, posts going back to Jan 2022 in the Windows 11 group.
It is not my fault that google groups is broken. And it was not me who
said that alt.comp.os.windows-10 is in google groups but alt.comp.os.windows-11 is not.
when the "N" archives used exactly those monikers, namely: <https://alt.comp.microsoft.windows.narchive.com> <https://microsoft.public.windowsxp.general.narchive.com> <https://alt.comp.os.windows-11.narchive.com> <https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narchive.com> <https://alt.comp.os.windows-8.narchive.com> <https://alt.windows7.general.narchive.com> <https://alt.msdos.batch.narchive.com>
<https://alt.os.linux.narchive.com> <https://comp.mobile.android.narchive.com> <https://comp.mobile.ipad.narchive.com> <https://misc.phone.mobile.iphone.narchive.com> <https://alt.comp.freeware.narchive.com>
etc.
Carlos E.R. wrote:
It is not my fault that google groups is broken. And it was not me who
said that alt.comp.os.windows-10 is in google groups but
alt.comp.os.windows-11 is not.
neither a.c.o.w10 or a.c.o.w11 exist in google groups, but a.c.m.w does
exist
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows>
In alt.comp.microsoft.windows Minoru Osaka <minoru.osaka@asahi.net> wrote:
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
Or better. Don't upgrade. :)
my upstream doesn't have alt.comp.microsoft.windows. In fact, nothing "alt.comp.microsoft"
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-8.narchive.com>
Site not found.
What I had created were tinyurl links which were the best I could do then:
One more reason not to use tiny URLs.
Albeit they work in this case.
<https://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10>
Redirects to <http://www.pcbanter.net/forumdisplay.php?f=52>
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows>
This one works.
In summary, I "think" Google _does_ add groups when _they_ see fit.
They just do NOT see fit to add Windows variants as archived groups.
I presume you mean narkive.com rather than narchive.com in all those
URLs? unfortunately narkive seems to have thinned-down to under 20 groups,not including any of the above, can that be right?
On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 01:33:12 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
In alt.comp.microsoft.windows Minoru Osaka <minoru.osaka@asahi.net> wrote: >>> I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11. >>> I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account? >>Or better. Don't upgrade. :)
I completely disagree. In my opinion, for almost everyone, it's almost
always the best choice to run on the latest version of Windows.
On 3/27/2023 10:59 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 01:33:12 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
In alt.comp.microsoft.windows Minoru Osaka <minoru.osaka@asahi.net> wrote: >>>> I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11. >>>> I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances. >>>> If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account? >>>
Or better. Don't upgrade. :)
I completely disagree. In my opinion, for almost everyone, it's almost
always the best choice to run on the latest version of Windows.
I think you're dead wrong.
And this is why.
This is what happens when reach exceeds grasp.
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CXnsAFD496534B6Fnilch1%40wheedledeedle.moc%3E
Windows 7 would not do that, because it does not
have the technical capability to do that.
The Task Manager is no longer sufficient to keep control of your machine.
Reporting incidents through the Feedback Hub, is a piss poor
mode of alerting someone to what has happened. There is no guarantee
every report has been read by a human.
On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 17:55:59 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
On 3/27/2023 10:59 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 01:33:12 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
In alt.comp.microsoft.windows Minoru Osaka <minoru.osaka@asahi.net> wrote:
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances. >>>> If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
Or better. Don't upgrade. :)
I completely disagree. In my opinion, for almost everyone, it's almost
always the best choice to run on the latest version of Windows.
I think you're dead wrong.
OK, we all have different opinions and different preferences. See
below for a couple of comments.
And this is why.
This is what happens when reach exceeds grasp.
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CXnsAFD496534B6Fnilch1%40wheedledeedle.moc%3E
Windows 7 would not do that, because it does not
have the technical capability to do that.
The Task Manager is no longer sufficient to keep control of your machine.
I don't use the Windows task manager. Instead I use the third-party
Task Manager Deluxe, which I think is much better.
I don't think everything built into Windows 11 is great, nor did I
think everything in any prior version was great. So I use third-party utilities and application programs whenever I think they are better
than what comes with Windows or what Microsoft offers separately. I
won't bother to list them all, but there are a bunch besides Task
Manager Deluxe, starting with Start11, Winaero Tweaker, and Firefox.
But I do think it's best to stay up-to-date with Windows versions,
primarily because sooner or later some hardware or program or an
updated version of a program you run is released and you want or need
it. And when that happens, you may find that it won't run with an
older Windows version.
Another reason is that if you let a version or two go by before you
upgrade to the latest version, most people will find it harder to
adapt to all the changes in the new version. Getting changes a little
at a time is easier.
Reporting incidents through the Feedback Hub, is a piss poor
mode of alerting someone to what has happened. There is no guarantee
every report has been read by a human.
Yes, I agree.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 17:55:59 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
On 3/27/2023 10:59 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 01:33:12 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
In alt.comp.microsoft.windows Minoru Osaka <minoru.osaka@asahi.net> wrote:
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances. >> >>>> If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
Or better. Don't upgrade. :)
I completely disagree. In my opinion, for almost everyone, it's almost
always the best choice to run on the latest version of Windows.
I think you're dead wrong.
OK, we all have different opinions and different preferences. See
below for a couple of comments.
And this is why.I don't use the Windows task manager. Instead I use the third-party
This is what happens when reach exceeds grasp.
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CXnsAFD496534B6Fnilch1%40wheedledeedle.moc%3E
Windows 7 would not do that, because it does not
have the technical capability to do that.
The Task Manager is no longer sufficient to keep control of your machine. >>
Task Manager Deluxe, which I think is much better.
I don't think everything built into Windows 11 is great, nor did I
think everything in any prior version was great. So I use third-party
utilities and application programs whenever I think they are better
than what comes with Windows or what Microsoft offers separately. I
won't bother to list them all, but there are a bunch besides Task
Manager Deluxe, starting with Start11, Winaero Tweaker, and Firefox.
So basically you're saying you need third-party utilities/programs to
un-break stuff in the newer Windows version, which wasn't broken in the >earlier version(s)! :-( I think you just made Paul's point.
But I do think it's best to stay up-to-date with Windows versions,
primarily because sooner or later some hardware or program or an
updated version of a program you run is released and you want or need
it. And when that happens, you may find that it won't run with an
older Windows version.
And *if* such a thing happens, which isn't all that likely,
it's early
enough to consider 'upgrading' to a newer Windows version. BTW, "an
updated version of a program you run" is even less important/common,
because in most cases you can just continue to use the 'old' working
version.
Another reason is that if you let a version or two go by before you
upgrade to the latest version, most people will find it harder to
adapt to all the changes in the new version. Getting changes a little
at a time is easier.
'True', but it's probably better to have a week of horror
instead of
many years of constant annoyance from changing/breaking stuff.
But yes, I have 'upgraded' too, but only because 1) a new machine came
with Windows 11 (and most likely could not be 'downgraded' to 8.1) and
2) the wife's 8.1 machine ran out of (Extended) support , so I 'had' to >'upgrade' it to 10).
On 29 Mar 2023 12:33:29 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 17:55:59 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
On 3/27/2023 10:59 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 01:33:12 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
In alt.comp.microsoft.windows Minoru Osaka <minoru.osaka@asahi.net> wrote:
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
Or better. Don't upgrade. :)
I completely disagree. In my opinion, for almost everyone, it's almost >> >> always the best choice to run on the latest version of Windows.
I think you're dead wrong.
OK, we all have different opinions and different preferences. See
below for a couple of comments.
And this is why.I don't use the Windows task manager. Instead I use the third-party
This is what happens when reach exceeds grasp.
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CXnsAFD496534B6Fnilch1%40wheedledeedle.moc%3E
Windows 7 would not do that, because it does not
have the technical capability to do that.
The Task Manager is no longer sufficient to keep control of your machine. >>
Task Manager Deluxe, which I think is much better.
I don't think everything built into Windows 11 is great, nor did I
think everything in any prior version was great. So I use third-party
utilities and application programs whenever I think they are better
than what comes with Windows or what Microsoft offers separately. I
won't bother to list them all, but there are a bunch besides Task
Manager Deluxe, starting with Start11, Winaero Tweaker, and Firefox.
So basically you're saying you need third-party utilities/programs to
un-break stuff in the newer Windows version, which wasn't broken in the >earlier version(s)! :-( I think you just made Paul's point.
No, that's not at all what I'm saying.
I wasn't talking about broken stuff. Yes, occasionally something
doesn't work the way it's supposed to, but in my experience that's
been rare.
What I was talking about was stuff that doesn't work the way *I* would
like it to. Note the stress on "I." Just because I don't like the way something works doesn't mean everybody doesn't. Some people like
changes that I dislike. As an example, I know several people who like
and use Edge, even though I think it's the worst of all browsers.
So whenever I can make things more to my liking with third-party utilities/programs (continuing my example above, I use Firefox instead
of Edge) that's what I do.
And there's nothing special about Windows in this regard. The same is
often true of new version of most software. I don't like all changes
and when I can set things more to my liking with third-party utilities/programs, that's what I do. As an example, I use many
Firefox extensions.
There's not a single program I have ever used, by Microsoft or anyone
else, in which everything is completely the way I would like it to be.
If I were in change of designing them, I would make a number of
changes,
And note that there would certainly be some people who wouldn't like
the changes I would make. We're all different, work in different ways,
and have different likes and dislikes. That's why options in programs
are good; in a sense, using a third party utility/program is
exercising an option that just wasn't built in.
You said "need" above. No I don't "need" to do that. I do it because I
want to and prefer the result if I do.
But I do think it's best to stay up-to-date with Windows versions,
primarily because sooner or later some hardware or program or an
updated version of a program you run is released and you want or need
it. And when that happens, you may find that it won't run with an
older Windows version.
And *if* such a thing happens, which isn't all that likely,
On the contrary, I think it's virtually guaranteed for most people.
The only questions are what hardware, what software, and when does it
happen.
it's early
enough to consider 'upgrading' to a newer Windows version. BTW, "an
updated version of a program you run" is even less important/common, >because in most cases you can just continue to use the 'old' working >version.
True of many programs, but far from all.
Another reason is that if you let a version or two go by before you
upgrade to the latest version, most people will find it harder to
adapt to all the changes in the new version. Getting changes a little
at a time is easier.
'True', but it's probably better to have a week of horror
What you might find "a week of horror," for many other people might be
many weeks of continuous problems trying to figure out to how to do
things.
instead of
many years of constant annoyance from changing/breaking stuff.
I've been running Windows 11 since it was first released--about a year
and a half now.. I have had *no* constant annoyance. Almost no
annoyances at all. don't remember having any problems with something breaking and the things that were changed that I wanted back the way
they were, I adjusted by choosing options and using third-party
software almost from day 1.
Yes, it would have been better if those options were built into
Windows; an example is the inability to have a vertical task bar
without using a third-party program. Perhaps that could be called an annoyance, but as far as I'm concerned, it's a very minor annoyance
since it can be fixed so easily and so quickly.
Yes, I know there are some people who refuse to use third-party
programs and are therefore stuck with whatever is built into Windows. Sometimes they can't use a third-party program because their employee forbids, so yes, those thing that I consider minor can be very major
for them. But for home users of Windows 11, refusal to use a
third-party program is just foolishness as far as I'm concerned.
Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly on producing quality software and in
many cases they are way behind the competition in my opinion.
Is Windows 11 perfect? No. Far from it. Yes, I wish it had been
designed more to my liking, but it's been easy to adjust it more to my
liking and I'm generally happy with it.
But yes, I have 'upgraded' too, but only because 1) a new machine came
with Windows 11 (and most likely could not be 'downgraded' to 8.1) and
Couldn't you clean install 8.1?
2) the wife's 8.1 machine ran out of (Extended) support , so I 'had' to >'upgrade' it to 10).
Had to? Not as far as I'm concerned.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On 29 Mar 2023 12:33:29 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 17:55:59 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:
On 3/27/2023 10:59 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 01:33:12 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
In alt.comp.microsoft.windows Minoru Osaka <minoru.osaka@asahi.net> wrote:
I have Windows 10 Home & Pro - which is nagging me to move to Windows 11.
I do NOT wish to establish a Microsoft Account under any circumstances.
If I move to Windows 11 (on Pro or Home) - must I establish a M$ Account?
Or better. Don't upgrade. :)
I completely disagree. In my opinion, for almost everyone, it's almost >> >> >> always the best choice to run on the latest version of Windows.
I think you're dead wrong.
OK, we all have different opinions and different preferences. See
below for a couple of comments.
And this is why.
This is what happens when reach exceeds grasp.
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CXnsAFD496534B6Fnilch1%40wheedledeedle.moc%3E
Windows 7 would not do that, because it does not
have the technical capability to do that.
The Task Manager is no longer sufficient to keep control of your machine.
I don't use the Windows task manager. Instead I use the third-party
Task Manager Deluxe, which I think is much better.
I don't think everything built into Windows 11 is great, nor did I
think everything in any prior version was great. So I use third-party
utilities and application programs whenever I think they are better
than what comes with Windows or what Microsoft offers separately. I
won't bother to list them all, but there are a bunch besides Task
Manager Deluxe, starting with Start11, Winaero Tweaker, and Firefox.
So basically you're saying you need third-party utilities/programs to
un-break stuff in the newer Windows version, which wasn't broken in the
earlier version(s)! :-( I think you just made Paul's point.
No, that's not at all what I'm saying.
I wasn't talking about broken stuff. Yes, occasionally something
doesn't work the way it's supposed to, but in my experience that's
been rare.
What I was talking about was stuff that doesn't work the way *I* would
like it to. Note the stress on "I." Just because I don't like the way
something works doesn't mean everybody doesn't. Some people like
changes that I dislike. As an example, I know several people who like
and use Edge, even though I think it's the worst of all browsers.
So whenever I can make things more to my liking with third-party
utilities/programs (continuing my example above, I use Firefox instead
of Edge) that's what I do.
And there's nothing special about Windows in this regard. The same is
often true of new version of most software. I don't like all changes
and when I can set things more to my liking with third-party
utilities/programs, that's what I do. As an example, I use many
Firefox extensions.
"I don't like all changes" is what I meant by "to un-break stuff in
the newer Windows version, which wasn't broken in the earlier
version(s)!".
Many and even most changes are for no good reason
and - as
also you've said - they *change* things, instead of offering new >functionality and leaving the old functionality in tact.
There's not a single program I have ever used, by Microsoft or anyone
else, in which everything is completely the way I would like it to be.
If I were in change of designing them, I would make a number of
changes,
And note that there would certainly be some people who wouldn't like
the changes I would make. We're all different, work in different ways,
and have different likes and dislikes. That's why options in programs
are good; in a sense, using a third party utility/program is
exercising an option that just wasn't built in.
You said "need" above. No I don't "need" to do that. I do it because I
want to and prefer the result if I do.
Effectively, people *do* need to do that or be forced to live with the
changed and often decreased/worse functionality. The change is forced on
us, whether we like it or not.
But I do think it's best to stay up-to-date with Windows versions,
primarily because sooner or later some hardware or program or an
updated version of a program you run is released and you want or need
it. And when that happens, you may find that it won't run with an
older Windows version.
And *if* such a thing happens, which isn't all that likely,
On the contrary, I think it's virtually guaranteed for most people.
The only questions are what hardware, what software, and when does it
happen.
I don't think it's all that likely. People often 'upgrade' because
they think they have to
or/and they throw their hands in the air at the
first minor hurdle.
Anyway, I haven't had any real compatibility problems yet in two
decades.
But yes, that's anecdotal (non-)evidence and so is yours, so we
better leave it at YMMV.
it's early
enough to consider 'upgrading' to a newer Windows version. BTW, "an
updated version of a program you run" is even less important/common,
because in most cases you can just continue to use the 'old' working
version.
True of many programs, but far from all.
I'll settle for "most"! :-)
Another reason is that if you let a version or two go by before you
upgrade to the latest version, most people will find it harder to
adapt to all the changes in the new version. Getting changes a little
at a time is easier.
'True', but it's probably better to have a week of horror
What you might find "a week of horror," for many other people might be
many weeks of continuous problems trying to figure out to how to do
things.
Well, the new version is supposed to be "better", "improved", etc.,
isn't it? So it should be a piece of cake! :-) Just kidding.
FWIW, I jumped from 8.1. to 11, so a *BIG* jump and it only took about
a week.
instead of
many years of constant annoyance from changing/breaking stuff.
I've been running Windows 11 since it was first released--about a year
and a half now.. I have had *no* constant annoyance. Almost no
annoyances at all. don't remember having any problems with something
breaking and the things that were changed that I wanted back the way
they were, I adjusted by choosing options and using third-party
software almost from day 1.
I wasn't referring to just Windows 11, but to the whole Windows
lifecycle, i.e. from XP on. For me that's 20 years. From 8.1, it's 8
years.
As to breaking things, I lost track on how many things Windows 11
broke in my five months of (real) use. Most things broke in the last
month (granted, I delayed 22H2 because of extended (3 month) absence).
And by broken I also mean (substantially) changed functionality which
needs fixing or working around.
This month list from the top of my head:
- Broken Command Prompt windows (Windows Terminal instead of Windows
Console Host).
- Totally changed Notepad,
- Icons stuck (can not be moved) on Taskbar.
- Windows Update restarting the system without warning (on the Taskbar).
- Internet access broken by new driver (installed by Windows Update)
or/and 'something' changing an advanced driver property.
Yes, it would have been better if those options were built into
Windows; an example is the inability to have a vertical task bar
without using a third-party program. Perhaps that could be called an
annoyance, but as far as I'm concerned, it's a very minor annoyance
since it can be fixed so easily and so quickly.
Yes, I know there are some people who refuse to use third-party
programs and are therefore stuck with whatever is built into Windows.
Sometimes they can't use a third-party program because their employee
forbids, so yes, those thing that I consider minor can be very major
for them. But for home users of Windows 11, refusal to use a
third-party program is just foolishness as far as I'm concerned.
Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly on producing quality software and in
many cases they are way behind the competition in my opinion.
Yes, I also use third-party software. For this new Windows 11 system,
I started again from scratch and only installed my 'must have' add ons
and will install others as the need (re-)arises.
My point is that whether we like it or not, we *have* to adjust, there
is no other choice.
Do we get anything in return? AFAIC, no. For me,
Windows 11 offers no functionality over 8.1 (or even Vista and XP (never
used 7)).
Bottom line: Let's agree to 'disagree'.
Is Windows 11 perfect? No. Far from it. Yes, I wish it had been
designed more to my liking, but it's been easy to adjust it more to my
liking and I'm generally happy with it.
But yes, I have 'upgraded' too, but only because 1) a new machine came
with Windows 11 (and most likely could not be 'downgraded' to 8.1) and
Couldn't you clean install 8.1?
8.1 was an OEM license, i.e. no install media and not allowed to be
used on another computer. And it's unlikely that it would work_on/
support the new system.
2) the wife's 8.1 machine ran out of (Extended) support , so I 'had' to
'upgrade' it to 10).
Had to? Not as far as I'm concerned.
Agreed, that's why I wrote "had" in scare quotes.
Thanks for your response and sharing your view(s).
I don't think it's all that likely. People often 'upgrade' becausePeople are not quite as stupid as you think they are. People keep buying
they think they have to or/and they throw their hands in the air at the
first minor hurdle.
On 30 Mar 2023 14:16:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>[...]
wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I've been running Windows 11 since it was first released--about a year
and a half now.. I have had *no* constant annoyance. Almost no
annoyances at all. don't remember having any problems with something
breaking and the things that were changed that I wanted back the way
they were, I adjusted by choosing options and using third-party
software almost from day 1.
I wasn't referring to just Windows 11, but to the whole Windows
lifecycle, i.e. from XP on. For me that's 20 years. From 8.1, it's 8
years.
I started with Windows 2.0 and have run every version since then,
except for the NT versions (an aside: I even ran Windows 3.11, and not
just WFWG 3.11). For me if's 30+ years. My comment applies to all
those versions.
On 30/03/2023 15:16, Frank Slootweg wrote:
I don't think it's all that likely. People often 'upgrade' because
they think they have to or/and they throw their hands in the air at the first minor hurdle.
People are not quite as stupid as you think they are.
People keep buying
new stuff and invariably they get new things installed in it.
General users don't go out of their way to upgrade their machine. They
have better things to do than to spend an hour or two upgrading their machine. They might have somebody in the house who is keeping track of
the systems but upgrading normally takes place when the machine goes to
the technician for repair. The technician might say that there is a new Windows Operating system so I have decided to upgrade your machine
because it is free.
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