I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years). I
have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on my
real machine _and_ the virtual machine. So I googled, and found this
15-minute video:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFa_2cKzuk>

It takes you through downloading a Windows 10 ISO, creating a VM in
VirtualBox, and setting up Windows 10 in that VM without needing to
enter a product key or create a Microsoft account.

Probably I could have got through it without the video, but following
along I didn't make any mistakes and have to backtrack, so it saved
me time overall.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/20/2023 8:05 PM, Stan Brown wrote:

I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years). I
have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on my
real machine _and_ the virtual machine. So I googled, and found this 15-minute video:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFa_2cKzuk>

It takes you through downloading a Windows 10 ISO, creating a VM in VirtualBox, and setting up Windows 10 in that VM without needing to
enter a product key or create a Microsoft account.

Probably I could have got through it without the video, but following
along I didn't make any mistakes and have to backtrack, so it saved
me time overall.

OK, now do Windows Update some day, and see if the watermark appears
in the lower right corner, indicating the product is not licensed.

When a product is not licensed, the "Personalize" menu items are disabled,
so you can't change a few things in there.

How many of my VMs, do you suppose, are licensed ? :-)

The OSes know they're virtualized too. Both Linux (paravirtualization
code) and Windows, know they are inside a VM.

The problem is, if you ask "T", you will find out how
wise it is, to burn a license in a VM. If there is any
problem with the licensing, MS Tech Support will throw
their hands in the air and declare "tough beanz". I don't
know if "T" made any progress rolling a rock uphill or not,
regarding this issue. There is some numeric identifier
in the container you're using, and it might be this
identifier which is hashed as part of burning a license
in a VM. You have to be careful to not lose that identifier.
Which is slightly different than how physical licensing works.

There are some tools, which read a container, then write
a new container, when you ask the tool to "compact" the
container. This is naughty, from a licensing perspective,
and sets fire to your key. The tools should be more careful
to maintain header information in the file. For example,
Connectix Virtual PC, the compact code could function in-place,
keeping the original file header, and simply re-writing
the file body. Some other companies, just don't seem to
get this issue (of upsetting licensing by being careless).

With VHD files, there are only certain tools I trust, to
not be trashing the basic properties of a VHD file.

Examples from my VM collection

1) Linux - kinda expires when repository is removed from server.
Otherwise, could be considered permanent.

2) WinXP - 3*30days grace period. You use rearms twice to get the
full 90 days. I did a rearm today, on a WinXP (before recompressing
the container and putting it away). The WinXP
is an OVA appliance from modern.ie (a Microsoft site).

3) Win7 - this is a modern.ie Win7 Enterprise OVA, and can be run forever,
except it reboots itself after 30 minutes of usage. For many
Win7 experiments, this is a fine working model (as I mostly
take pictures of interface elements).

4) Win10 - OVA appliances claimed to have expiry set on them by MS. They
were not Enterprise SKUs with the reboot behavior. You
just grab a DVD and install a Win10 Pro if you want instead, and use
that, unlicensed. The watermark will appear in the lower right
corner, if you leave it running long enough. The trigger is
likely to be a Windows Update scan done by the machine at
regular intervals.

5) Win11 - A real install, no fudged Rufus. VMWare Workstation.
Watermark in corner. The reason this works, is "swtpm"
is an emulated hardware element in the Guest. If your processor
has MBEC, the characteristic "shines through" and that's
how the Guest knows the processor is "one of the good ones".
I don't feel inclined to do "victory laps" when running that,
as the experience is pretty ordinary. The container type
used in this case, is misery itself -- VMWare insists on
applying encryption to the container themselves (not a Bitlocker),
and the image is not compressible as a result.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 20.03.2023 um 17:05:50 Uhr schrieb Stan Brown:

I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years). I
have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on my
real machine _and_ the virtual machine.

The license only allows the use of one system, but MS doesn't seem to
care anymore about it.
They removed the automatic shutdown of unlicensed Windows in newer WIn
10 versions.

It takes you through downloading a Windows 10 ISO, creating a VM in VirtualBox, and setting up Windows 10 in that VM without needing to
enter a product key or create a Microsoft account.

Only Win 10 Home requires an MS account. If you disconnect the network,
you can create a local account.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 08:39:27 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:

Am 20.03.2023 um 17:05:50 Uhr schrieb Stan Brown:

I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years). I
have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on my
real machine _and_ the virtual machine.

The license only allows the use of one system, but MS doesn't seem to
care anymore about it.
They removed the automatic shutdown of unlicensed Windows in newer WIn
10 versions.

It takes you through downloading a Windows 10 ISO, creating a VM in VirtualBox, and setting up Windows 10 in that VM without needing to
enter a product key or create a Microsoft account.

Only Win 10 Home requires an MS account. If you disconnect the network,
you can create a local account.

I don't have any networking in this VM. I can't think of any reason
why I would want to create a Microsoft account, but in any case I was
able to skip that step in setup.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 01:50:17 -0400, Paul wrote:

On 3/20/2023 8:05 PM, Stan Brown wrote:

I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years). I
have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on my
real machine _and_ the virtual machine. So I googled, and found this 15-minute video:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFa_2cKzuk>

It takes you through downloading a Windows 10 ISO, creating a VM in VirtualBox, and setting up Windows 10 in that VM without needing to
enter a product key or create a Microsoft account.

Probably I could have got through it without the video, but following
along I didn't make any mistakes and have to backtrack, so it saved
me time overall.

OK, now do Windows Update some day, and see if the watermark appears
in the lower right corner, indicating the product is not licensed.

When a product is not licensed, the "Personalize" menu items are disabled,
so you can't change a few things in there.

A fair point. The video did mention there would be some cosmetic
things, and I should have mentioned that in my post.

I configured my particular machine without any Internet, not thinking
about Windows Update but just to keep things simple.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years). I
have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on my
real machine _and_ the virtual machine. So I googled, and found this 15-minute video:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFa_2cKzuk>

It takes you through downloading a Windows 10 ISO, creating a VM in VirtualBox, and setting up Windows 10 in that VM without needing to
enter a product key or create a Microsoft account.

Probably I could have got through it without the video, but following
along I didn't make any mistakes and have to backtrack, so it saved
me time overall.

I wasn't aware Microsoft has yet pulled the plug on the non-expiring
trial version of Windows 10. As you described, install Windows 10.
Then never activate it. You get a screen watermark, but there is a
workaround for that. Some admin-level and personalization features are missing, but they aren't critical.

The trial version never expires. Well, that's how it was a couple years
ago, but I haven't tested since. You could keep using indefinitely the
trial version. Don't activate, and you get the non-expiring reduced
functional mode.

Note: The trial for the Enterprise edition does expire, and you no
longer can boot using it. Not true for the other editions.

The video you gave is dated back in 2016. Pretty old. I'd have to test
if a non-validated copy of Windows never expires, but it looks like you
already did that test a couple days ago.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/21/2023 8:52 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years). I
have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on my
real machine _and_ the virtual machine. So I googled, and found this
15-minute video:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFa_2cKzuk>

It takes you through downloading a Windows 10 ISO, creating a VM in
VirtualBox, and setting up Windows 10 in that VM without needing to
enter a product key or create a Microsoft account.

Probably I could have got through it without the video, but following
along I didn't make any mistakes and have to backtrack, so it saved
me time overall.

I wasn't aware Microsoft has yet pulled the plug on the non-expiring
trial version of Windows 10. As you described, install Windows 10.
Then never activate it. You get a screen watermark, but there is a workaround for that. Some admin-level and personalization features are missing, but they aren't critical.

They aren't critical to You! But they are critical if you want to
"magnify" the display settings! I could use the default settings in an emergency, but that's about the only way I would it. : )

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

On 3/21/2023 8:52 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years). I
have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on my
real machine _and_ the virtual machine. So I googled, and found this
15-minute video:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFa_2cKzuk>

It takes you through downloading a Windows 10 ISO, creating a VM in
VirtualBox, and setting up Windows 10 in that VM without needing to
enter a product key or create a Microsoft account.

Probably I could have got through it without the video, but following
along I didn't make any mistakes and have to backtrack, so it saved
me time overall.

I wasn't aware Microsoft has yet pulled the plug on the non-expiring
trial version of Windows 10. As you described, install Windows 10.
Then never activate it. You get a screen watermark, but there is a
workaround for that. Some admin-level and personalization features are
missing, but they aren't critical.

They aren't critical to You! But they are critical if you want to
"magnify" the display settings! I could use the default settings in an emergency, but that's about the only way I would it. : )

Then don't use the non-expiring trial installation. If there are
functions missing in the non-expiring trial installation that are
critical to you, and important enough to pay for them, then pay for a
license.

Tons of users only have the Home edition. The missing admin-level
functions are not important to them, and obviously not critical to them.
For those where the missing admin functions are critical, they'll have
to pay for the Pro edition.

Also, because the interface may be missing for personalization settings
does not mandate that the features are actually missing. You would have
to install Windows 10, not activate it, and check what personalization
settings are missing - perhaps not through the GUI wizards, but see if
direct calls are missing (see if control.exe is still available). When
you use Magnifier, you are running an app.

Despite all the glitz that Microsoft has rolled into Windows, often
users find 3rd party apps to be more robust. Do you still use Notepad?
If so, and it were removed, would that prevent you from using Notepad++,
or some other text editor? Nope. Microsoft doesn't just provide an OS,
and then you get all the apps. Microsoft bundles minimalistic apps, and
it's your choice to use that, or find something better. Windows in a general-purpose OS, not a restricted functionality OS. You've never
installed anything into Windows after installing Windows?

If a feature is missing in Windows - whether by using a crippled
trialware version, or you want something more - go find an app. The
embedded magnifier in Windows is *not* the only way to magnify.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/22/2023 3:37 AM, VanguardLH wrote:

Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

On 3/21/2023 8:52 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years). I
have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on my
real machine _and_ the virtual machine. So I googled, and found this
15-minute video:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFa_2cKzuk>

It takes you through downloading a Windows 10 ISO, creating a VM in
VirtualBox, and setting up Windows 10 in that VM without needing to
enter a product key or create a Microsoft account.

Probably I could have got through it without the video, but following
along I didn't make any mistakes and have to backtrack, so it saved
me time overall.

I wasn't aware Microsoft has yet pulled the plug on the non-expiring
trial version of Windows 10. As you described, install Windows 10.
Then never activate it. You get a screen watermark, but there is a
workaround for that. Some admin-level and personalization features are
missing, but they aren't critical.

They aren't critical to You! But they are critical if you want to
"magnify" the display settings! I could use the default settings in an
emergency, but that's about the only way I would it. : )

Then don't use the non-expiring trial installation.

I don't/won't. I did not intend for you to make a big deal out of it!
I think you overdid it.. Didn't you see my "emoji"?


If there are

functions missing in the non-expiring trial installation that are
critical to you, and important enough to pay for them, then pay for a license.

Tons of users only have the Home edition. The missing admin-level
functions are not important to them, and obviously not critical to them.
For those where the missing admin functions are critical, they'll have
to pay for the Pro edition.

Also, because the interface may be missing for personalization settings
does not mandate that the features are actually missing. You would have
to install Windows 10, not activate it, and check what personalization settings are missing - perhaps not through the GUI wizards, but see if
direct calls are missing (see if control.exe is still available). When
you use Magnifier, you are running an app.

Despite all the glitz that Microsoft has rolled into Windows, often
users find 3rd party apps to be more robust. Do you still use Notepad?
If so, and it were removed, would that prevent you from using Notepad++,
or some other text editor? Nope. Microsoft doesn't just provide an OS,
and then you get all the apps. Microsoft bundles minimalistic apps, and
it's your choice to use that, or find something better. Windows in a general-purpose OS, not a restricted functionality OS. You've never installed anything into Windows after installing Windows?

If a feature is missing in Windows - whether by using a crippled
trialware version, or you want something more - go find an app. The
embedded magnifier in Windows is *not* the only way to magnify.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/22/2023 4:59 AM, Bill wrote:

I don't/won't.  I did not intend for you to make a big deal out of it!
I think you overdid it.. Didn't you see my "emoji"?

It's possible some of the Display settings are in the registry.

It would still be quite a project, to find those settings though.

Entechtaiwan could change things like that ("Powerstrip"), and it could
change entire ModeLines for graphics. And the registry areas
where the changes went, they were spread around a bit. Depending
on display type.

Apparently (haven't verified), the custom display settings
area of the two brands of drivers, have been removed (presumably
at the request of Microsoft), so you cannot do nearly as many
neat tricks as in the past. Pan and scan has been removed.
Some of this has gone missing in Linux too.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years).
I have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on
my real machine _and_ the virtual machine. ...

I wasn't aware Microsoft has yet pulled the plug on the
non-expiring trial version of Windows 10. As you described,
install Windows 10. Then never activate it. You get a screen
watermark, but there is a workaround for that. Some admin-level
and personalization features are missing, but they aren't
critical.

They aren't critical to You! But they are critical if you want to
"magnify" the display settings! I could use the default settings
in an emergency, but that's about the only way I would it. : )

Then don't use the non-expiring trial installation.

I don't/won't. I did not intend for you to make a big deal out of it!
I think you overdid it.. Didn't you see my "emoji"?

I also saw your exclamation marks.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 19:52:23 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years). I
have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on my
real machine _and_ the virtual machine. So I googled, and found this 15-minute video:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFa_2cKzuk>

The trial version never expires. Well, that's how it was a couple years
ago, but I haven't tested since. You could keep using indefinitely the
trial version. Don't activate, and you get the non-expiring reduced functional mode.

I downloaded Microsoft's MediaCreationTool22H2.exe and used it to
download a Windows 10 ISO, both on Tuesday, 21 March.

The video you gave is dated back in 2016. Pretty old.

True. But the screens in the video were nearly all identical to the
ones I saw, and the few that weren't differed only in minor ways.
That doesn't directly tell us that the underlying processing hasn't
changed, of course.

I'd have to test if a non-validated copy of Windows never expires,
but it looks like you already did that test a couple days ago.

I don't know how I or anyone could test that it _never_ expires!

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 19:52:23 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

I needed to install a virtual machine today, for the first time on
this PC (and my first time with VirtualBox in quite a few years). I
have a Windows product key, but I assume that can't be used on my
real machine _and_ the virtual machine. So I googled, and found this
15-minute video:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFa_2cKzuk>

The trial version never expires. Well, that's how it was a couple years
ago, but I haven't tested since. You could keep using indefinitely the
trial version. Don't activate, and you get the non-expiring reduced
functional mode.

I downloaded Microsoft's MediaCreationTool22H2.exe and used it to
download a Windows 10 ISO, both on Tuesday, 21 March.

The video you gave is dated back in 2016. Pretty old.

True. But the screens in the video were nearly all identical to the
ones I saw, and the few that weren't differed only in minor ways.
That doesn't directly tell us that the underlying processing hasn't
changed, of course.

I'd have to test if a non-validated copy of Windows never expires,
but it looks like you already did that test a couple days ago.

I don't know how I or anyone could test that it _never_ expires!

The Enterprise trial is for 30 days. Many trials from Microsoft are for
a month. In a month, you'll see if it keeps going.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)