I do most of my grocery shopping online, and keep a copy of my orders 'as sent' and 'as received'. I had some free time yesterday so I decided tohttps://www.pdfforge.org/pdfcreator
test some of the things that had bean discussed in that thread recently.
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked
at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will
be using from now on.I like PDFCreator.
I do most of my grocery shopping online, and keep a copy of my orders 'as sent' and 'as received'. I had some free time yesterday so I decided to
test some of the things that had bean discussed in that thread recently.
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked
at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will
be using from now on.
I do most of my grocery shopping online, and keep a copy of my orders 'as sent' and 'as received'. I had some free time yesterday so I decided to
test some of the things that had bean discussed in that thread recently.
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked
at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will
be using from now on.
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked
at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will
be using from now on.
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files
were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked
at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size
dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will
be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files
were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked
at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size
dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will
be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files >> were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked >> at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size
dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will >> be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 06:50:32 -0800, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files >>> were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked >>> at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size >>> dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will >>> be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
Out of curiosity, I just went to WordPerfect, found an old three-page
letter with two proportional fonts and one B&W graphic. I "printed"
it twice:
Microsoft Print to PDF - 195KB
PDF24 - 63KB
On 3/7/2023 9:50 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:Even 9 MB seems high. I have a 169 letter size page, single spaced
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my
files were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad
and looked at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the
entire TEXT document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as
'Plain PDF' the size dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say,
I know what option I will be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
file that takes 2.5MB. There are no images just text.
I have several other PDF documents with a similar number of pages and
a similar file sizes.
I use CutePDFwrite, SourceForge's PDF Creator, and the PDF create that
is a modual in Wordperfect to create my PDF files.
On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 20:08:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-03-07 17:35, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 06:50:32 -0800, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files >>>>> were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked >>>>> at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT >>>>> document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size >>>>> dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will >>>>> be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
Out of curiosity, I just went to WordPerfect, found an old three-page
letter with two proportional fonts and one B&W graphic. I "printed"
it twice:
Microsoft Print to PDF - 195KB
PDF24 - 63KB
You should check the output to verify what fonts the files are actually
using and compare that list with the original text.
They look the same. That's all the checking I want to do. I was only
mildly interested in seeing what the size difference was between the
two "printers."
And then, are the
fonts embedded or assumed to be on the destination system.
Don't know and don't care.
On 2023-03-07 17:35, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 06:50:32 -0800, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files >>>> were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked >>>> at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size >>>> dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will >>>> be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
Out of curiosity, I just went to WordPerfect, found an old three-page
letter with two proportional fonts and one B&W graphic. I "printed"
it twice:
Microsoft Print to PDF - 195KB
PDF24 - 63KB
You should check the output to verify what fonts the files are actually >using and compare that list with the original text.
And then, are the
fonts embedded or assumed to be on the destination system.
On 2023-03-07 09:50, Stan Brown wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files >> were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked >> at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size >> dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will >> be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
9MB is ridiculously bad. I'm getting complex invoices from providers, 8 pages long, with tons of detail and colour graphics all in under 300KB.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:I previously said I had several 157 page documents and that were
On 2023-03-07 09:50, Stan Brown wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files >>>> were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked >>>> at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size >>>> dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will >>>> be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
9MB is ridiculously bad. I'm getting complex invoices from providers, 8
pages long, with tons of detail and colour graphics all in under 300KB.
How's the quality when zoomed in though?
On 2023-03-07 22:38, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 20:08:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-03-07 17:35, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 06:50:32 -0800, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files
were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked
at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT >>>>>> document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size >>>>>> dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will
be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high. >>>>> And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with >>>>> 9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
Out of curiosity, I just went to WordPerfect, found an old three-page >>>> letter with two proportional fonts and one B&W graphic. I "printed"
it twice:
Microsoft Print to PDF - 195KB
PDF24 - 63KB
You should check the output to verify what fonts the files are actually
using and compare that list with the original text.
They look the same. That's all the checking I want to do. I was only
mildly interested in seeing what the size difference was between the
two "printers."
And then, are the
fonts embedded or assumed to be on the destination system.
Don't know and don't care.
Then you don't know what you are missing...
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost
nothing.
On 2023-03-07 18:23, Ken Blake wrote:
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost
nothing.
One of the most practical ways to store and send documents electronically.
-It's how I invoice - and very often how I'm invoiced.
-It's how I send quotations and proposals.
-It's how I prep my info for the accountant at tax time
(Business and personal).
etc.
So, maybe that's not for you, but it's definitely for many.
On 3/7/2023 9:50 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:Even 9 MB seems high. I have a 169 letter size page, single spaced file that takes 2.5MB. There are no images just text.
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files >>> were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked >>> at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT
document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size >>> dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will >>> be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
I have several other PDF documents with a similar number of pages and a similar file sizes.
I use CutePDFwrite, SourceForge's PDF Creator, and the PDF create that is a modual in Wordperfect to create my PDF files.
On 2023-03-08 01:13, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 18:23, Ken Blake wrote:
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost
nothing.
One of the most practical ways to store and send documents
electronically.
-It's how I invoice - and very often how I'm invoiced.
-It's how I send quotations and proposals.
-It's how I prep my info for the accountant at tax time
(Business and personal).
etc.
So, maybe that's not for you, but it's definitely for many.
In most cases, it is best if the application has the option to export or
save to pdf, whereas print to PDF doesn't generate optimal files.
The difference is that when printing, you can get perfect results by
just generating images at the pixel resolution of the printer. The application can optimize for that.
But when saving or exporting, there is an interest on small size and
vector graphics and fonts.
On 2023-03-07 20:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-08 01:13, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 18:23, Ken Blake wrote:
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost
nothing.
One of the most practical ways to store and send documents electronically. >>>
-It's how I invoice - and very often how I'm invoiced.
-It's how I send quotations and proposals.
-It's how I prep my info for the accountant at tax time
(Business and personal).
etc.
So, maybe that's not for you, but it's definitely for many.
In most cases, it is best if the application has the option to export or save to pdf, whereas print to PDF doesn't generate optimal files.
The difference is that when printing, you can get perfect results by just generating images at the pixel resolution of the printer. The application can optimize for that.
But when saving or exporting, there is an interest on small size and vector graphics and fonts.
I've been reading the thread and I'm astonished at the file sizes reported. Those I generate with the in-OS Mac print to pdf are far, far, far smaller.
I gen invoices on the order of 100 - 200 kB ... max! And those I receive from utilities and others are also sub MB (100 - 300 kB).
So, not sure what is going on with other posters machines getting many MB files ... 9 .. 100 MB - but it's clearly bloated.
On 3/7/2023 5:47 PM, Ant wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:I previously said I had several 157 page documents and that were contained with in a 2.5 MB file.
On 2023-03-07 09:50, Stan Brown wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of my files >>>>> were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and looked >>>>> at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT >>>>> document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF' the size >>>>> dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option I will >>>>> be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
9MB is ridiculously bad. I'm getting complex invoices from providers, 8 >>> pages long, with tons of detail and colour graphics all in under 300KB.
How's the quality when zoomed in though?
Using Adobe Reader, I zoomed to 6400%, and still had clear will formed characters with no blur. These are not images converted to PDF files but truly printed text documents.
The quality of the text in images is depended on the resolution of the original image.
On 3/7/2023 7:05 PM, knuttle wrote:
On 3/7/2023 5:47 PM, Ant wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:I previously said I had several 157 page documents and that were
On 2023-03-07 09:50, Stan Brown wrote:How's the quality when zoomed in though?
On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:32:39 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:
I had been using 'Microsoft Print to Pdf', and as posted most of
my files
were around 1gb. When I loaded one of those files into Notepad and >>>>>> looked
at it, it looks like Microsoft Print to PDF rendered the entire TEXT >>>>>> document as a bitmap. When I resaved the receipt as 'Plain PDF'
the size
dropped to a litte over 100mb. Needless to say, I know what option >>>>>> I will
be using from now on.
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high. >>>>> And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with >>>>> 9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
9MB is ridiculously bad. I'm getting complex invoices from
providers, 8
pages long, with tons of detail and colour graphics all in under 300KB. >>>
contained with in a 2.5 MB file.
Using Adobe Reader, I zoomed to 6400%, and still had clear will formed
characters with no blur. These are not images converted to PDF files
but truly printed text documents.
The quality of the text in images is depended on the resolution of the
original image.
For a PDF document, if a TrueType font, or any font with
mathematically defined (spline curve or quadratic curve) glyphs,
as you zoom in, the "math" allows infinite resolution and no jaggies.
Jaggies might result, if the engine doing the job, had some
limit on its floating point representations.
If a bitmap font was used, then it starts to look bad when you zoom in.
Over the decades, we've had our share of bitmap fonts. Back when you
were using 24x80 terminals and there were no "high resolution" graphics screens, those were bitmap (matrix) fonts.
If a web browser prints out, and it stores the entire page as a bitmap at
a fixed resolution, when you zoom in that far, you can see the jaggies because it is an image. And no math with spline curves, redraws the
edges of letters to perfection.
On 2023-03-07 20:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-08 01:13, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 18:23, Ken Blake wrote:
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost
nothing.
One of the most practical ways to store and send documents
electronically.
-It's how I invoice - and very often how I'm invoiced.
-It's how I send quotations and proposals.
-It's how I prep my info for the accountant at tax time
(Business and personal).
etc.
So, maybe that's not for you, but it's definitely for many.
In most cases, it is best if the application has the option to export
or save to pdf, whereas print to PDF doesn't generate optimal files.
The difference is that when printing, you can get perfect results by
just generating images at the pixel resolution of the printer. The
application can optimize for that.
But when saving or exporting, there is an interest on small size and
vector graphics and fonts.
I've been reading the thread and I'm astonished at the file sizes reported. Those I generate with the in-OS Mac print to pdf are far, far, far smaller.
I gen invoices on the order of 100 - 200 kB ... max! And those I receive
from utilities and others are also sub MB (100 - 300 kB).
So, not sure what is going on with other posters machines getting many
MB files ... 9 .. 100 MB - but it's clearly bloated.
Bitmaps for printing.
On 3/7/2023 9:50 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
[quoted text muted]
1 gigabyte? Really? Even for Microsoft Print to PDF that seems high.
And reducing to a hundred megabytes? I thought I was doing badly with
9 MB for a four-page monospaced typed letter.
Even 9 MB seems high.
On 2023-03-07 18:23, Ken Blake wrote:
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost
nothing.
One of the most practical ways to store and send documents electronically.
-It's how I invoice - and very often how I'm invoiced.
-It's how I send quotations and proposals.
-It's how I prep my info for the accountant at tax time
(Business and personal).
etc.
So, maybe that's not for you, but it's definitely for many.
On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 19:13:08 -0500, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-03-07 18:23, Ken Blake wrote:
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost
nothing.
One of the most practical ways to store and send documents electronically. >>
-It's how I invoice - and very often how I'm invoiced.
-It's how I send quotations and proposals.
-It's how I prep my info for the accountant at tax time
(Business and personal).
I do none of these.
etc.
So, maybe that's not for you, but it's definitely for many.
Yes, I understand, and agree. Many people create pdf files for those,
and other, reasons. But I was replying to Carlos's saying "Then you
don't know what **you** are missing"
As said " **I** almost never 'print to pdf.' "
It's amazing how often an argument (or at least a disagreement) can
start over next to nothing. I'll repeat once more why I entered this
thread: "I was only mildly interested in seeing what the size
difference was between the two "printers." Because of that mild
interest, I posted my results with the thought that others here might
be interested in someone else's experience. That's all. I had nothing
else in mind--certainly not whether I should create pdf files. End of
thread, as far as I'm concerned.
else in mind--certainly not whether I should create pdf files. End of
thread, as far as I'm concerned.
On 3/7/2023 11:20 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 20:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-08 01:13, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 18:23, Ken Blake wrote:
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost
nothing.
One of the most practical ways to store and send documents
electronically.
-It's how I invoice - and very often how I'm invoiced.
-It's how I send quotations and proposals.
-It's how I prep my info for the accountant at tax time
(Business and personal).
etc.
So, maybe that's not for you, but it's definitely for many.
In most cases, it is best if the application has the option to export
or save to pdf, whereas print to PDF doesn't generate optimal files.
The difference is that when printing, you can get perfect results by
just generating images at the pixel resolution of the printer. The
application can optimize for that.
But when saving or exporting, there is an interest on small size and
vector graphics and fonts.
I've been reading the thread and I'm astonished at the file sizes
reported.
Those I generate with the in-OS Mac print to pdf are far, far, far
smaller.
I gen invoices on the order of 100 - 200 kB ... max! And those I
receive from utilities and others are also sub MB (100 - 300 kB).
So, not sure what is going on with other posters machines getting many
MB files ... 9 .. 100 MB - but it's clearly bloated.
Good benchmarks, require samples we can share.
https://www.rsssf.org/tablest/tsjsl2hist.html
Why did it do that ?
You would expect if this was some kind of philosophical statement,
all pages would be composed exactly the same way.
On 2023-03-08 02:03, Paul wrote:
On 3/7/2023 11:20 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 20:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-08 01:13, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 18:23, Ken Blake wrote:
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost
nothing.
One of the most practical ways to store and send documents electronically.
-It's how I invoice - and very often how I'm invoiced.
-It's how I send quotations and proposals.
-It's how I prep my info for the accountant at tax time
(Business and personal).
etc.
So, maybe that's not for you, but it's definitely for many.
In most cases, it is best if the application has the option to export or save to pdf, whereas print to PDF doesn't generate optimal files.
The difference is that when printing, you can get perfect results by just generating images at the pixel resolution of the printer. The application can optimize for that.
But when saving or exporting, there is an interest on small size and vector graphics and fonts.
I've been reading the thread and I'm astonished at the file sizes reported. >>> Those I generate with the in-OS Mac print to pdf are far, far, far smaller. >>> I gen invoices on the order of 100 - 200 kB ... max! And those I receive from utilities and others are also sub MB (100 - 300 kB).
So, not sure what is going on with other posters machines getting many MB files ... 9 .. 100 MB - but it's clearly bloated.
Good benchmarks, require samples we can share.
https://www.rsssf.org/tablest/tsjsl2hist.html
Agreed. So I printed that to file from Google Chrome via the Mac PDF printer and got 174KB. Which seems nominal.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s933dlx0ep39tb7/Alan%27s-checklist.docx
(Download it and print to pdf, do not print it from the Dropbox site).
Is a short Word doc.
3 pages with a simple graphic, no colour.
Here it PDF's to 82 KB
PDF is an archival/distribution format. In addition, it accepts dual-representation.
You can store a Word-compatible chunk inside the file, such that a
recipient can actually open the original file if they want. But if
they don't want to do that (and not every author dreams of giving
away source), the PDF reader will just ignore the extraneous info.
I've not run into anyone in the wild, using that capability
On 2023-03-08 02:03, Paul wrote:
On 3/7/2023 11:20 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 20:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-08 01:13, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 18:23, Ken Blake wrote:
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost
nothing.
One of the most practical ways to store and send documents
electronically.
-It's how I invoice - and very often how I'm invoiced.
-It's how I send quotations and proposals.
-It's how I prep my info for the accountant at tax time
(Business and personal).
etc.
So, maybe that's not for you, but it's definitely for many.
In most cases, it is best if the application has the option to
export or save to pdf, whereas print to PDF doesn't generate optimal
files.
The difference is that when printing, you can get perfect results by
just generating images at the pixel resolution of the printer. The
application can optimize for that.
But when saving or exporting, there is an interest on small size and
vector graphics and fonts.
I've been reading the thread and I'm astonished at the file sizes
reported.
Those I generate with the in-OS Mac print to pdf are far, far, far
smaller.
I gen invoices on the order of 100 - 200 kB ... max! And those I
receive from utilities and others are also sub MB (100 - 300 kB).
So, not sure what is going on with other posters machines getting
many MB files ... 9 .. 100 MB - but it's clearly bloated.
Good benchmarks, require samples we can share.
https://www.rsssf.org/tablest/tsjsl2hist.html
Agreed. So I printed that to file from Google Chrome via the Mac PDF printer and got 174KB. Which seems nominal.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s933dlx0ep39tb7/Alan%27s-checklist.docx
(Download it and print to pdf, do not print it from the Dropbox site).
Is a short Word doc.
3 pages with a simple graphic, no colour.
Here it PDF's to 82 KB
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> pdffonts Alan\'s-checklist\ \(print\).pdf
name type encoding emb sub uni object ID
------------------------------------ ----------------- ---------------- --- --- --- ---------
BAAAAA+Carlito-Bold TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 19 0
CAAAAA+Carlito TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 29 0
DAAAAA+Carlito-Italic TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 24 0
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> pdffonts Alan\'s-checklist.pdf name type encoding emb sub uni object ID
------------------------------------ ----------------- ---------------- --- --- --- ---------
BAAAAA+Carlito-Bold TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 123 0
CAAAAA+Carlito TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 133 0
DAAAAA+Carlito-Italic TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 128 0
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads>
On 2023-03-08 18:17, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-08 02:03, Paul wrote:
On 3/7/2023 11:20 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 20:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-08 01:13, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 18:23, Ken Blake wrote:
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost
nothing.
One of the most practical ways to store and send documents electronically.
-It's how I invoice - and very often how I'm invoiced.
-It's how I send quotations and proposals.
-It's how I prep my info for the accountant at tax time
(Business and personal).
etc.
So, maybe that's not for you, but it's definitely for many.
In most cases, it is best if the application has the option to export or save to pdf, whereas print to PDF doesn't generate optimal files.
The difference is that when printing, you can get perfect results by just generating images at the pixel resolution of the printer. The application can optimize for that.
But when saving or exporting, there is an interest on small size and vector graphics and fonts.
I've been reading the thread and I'm astonished at the file sizes reported.
Those I generate with the in-OS Mac print to pdf are far, far, far smaller.
I gen invoices on the order of 100 - 200 kB ... max! And those I receive from utilities and others are also sub MB (100 - 300 kB).
So, not sure what is going on with other posters machines getting many MB files ... 9 .. 100 MB - but it's clearly bloated.
Good benchmarks, require samples we can share.
https://www.rsssf.org/tablest/tsjsl2hist.html
Agreed. So I printed that to file from Google Chrome via the Mac PDF printer and got 174KB. Which seems nominal.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s933dlx0ep39tb7/Alan%27s-checklist.docx
(Download it and print to pdf, do not print it from the Dropbox site).
Is a short Word doc.
3 pages with a simple graphic, no colour.
Here it PDF's to 82 KB
Ok, trying with LibreOffice in Linux.
Export to PDF; using jpeg compression for images at 85%, and 300DPI.
And print to PDF.
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> ls -lh Alan\'s-checklist* -rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 77K Mar 8 21:20 Alan's-checklist (print).pdf -rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 1,9M Mar 8 21:15 Alan's-checklist.docx
-rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 104K Mar 8 21:18 Alan's-checklist.pdf cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads>
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> pdfinfo Alan\'s-checklist\ \(print\).pdf
Title: Alan's-checklist.docx
Creator: LibreOffice 7.4.3.2
Producer: LibreOffice 7.4.3.2
CreationDate: Wed Mar 8 21:20:27 2023 CET
Custom Metadata: no
Metadata Stream: no
Tagged: no
UserProperties: no
Suspects: no
Form: none
JavaScript: no
Pages: 3
Encrypted: no
Page size: 612 x 792 pts (letter)
Page rot: 0
File size: 78293 bytes
Optimized: no
PDF version: 1.4
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> pdfinfo Alan\'s-checklist.pdf Author: Alan Browne
Creator: Writer
Producer: LibreOffice 7.4
CreationDate: Wed Mar 8 21:18:52 2023 CET
Custom Metadata: no
Metadata Stream: yes
Tagged: yes
UserProperties: no
Suspects: no
Form: none
JavaScript: no
Pages: 3
Encrypted: no
Page size: 612 x 792 pts (letter)
Page rot: 0
File size: 105568 bytes
Optimized: no
PDF version: 1.6
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads>
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> pdffonts Alan\'s-checklist\ \(print\).pdf name type encoding emb sub uni object ID
------------------------------------ ----------------- ---------------- --- --- --- ---------
BAAAAA+Carlito-Bold TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 19 0
CAAAAA+Carlito TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 29 0
DAAAAA+Carlito-Italic TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 24 0
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> pdffonts Alan\'s-checklist.pdf name type encoding emb sub uni object ID
------------------------------------ ----------------- ---------------- --- --- --- ---------
BAAAAA+Carlito-Bold TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 123 0
CAAAAA+Carlito TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 133 0
DAAAAA+Carlito-Italic TrueType WinAnsi yes yes yes 128 0
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads>
I tried the export choosing 600DPI, and the size is the same as with 300DPI, 104K.
On 3/8/2023 3:27 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-08 18:17, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-08 02:03, Paul wrote:
On 3/7/2023 11:20 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 20:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-03-08 01:13, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-07 18:23, Ken Blake wrote:
Since I almost never "print to pdf," I know I'm missing almost >>>>>>>> nothing.
One of the most practical ways to store and send documents
electronically.
-It's how I invoice - and very often how I'm invoiced.
-It's how I send quotations and proposals.
-It's how I prep my info for the accountant at tax time
(Business and personal).
etc.
So, maybe that's not for you, but it's definitely for many.
In most cases, it is best if the application has the option to
export or save to pdf, whereas print to PDF doesn't generate
optimal files.
The difference is that when printing, you can get perfect results
by just generating images at the pixel resolution of the printer.
The application can optimize for that.
But when saving or exporting, there is an interest on small size
and vector graphics and fonts.
I've been reading the thread and I'm astonished at the file sizes
reported.
Those I generate with the in-OS Mac print to pdf are far, far, far
smaller.
I gen invoices on the order of 100 - 200 kB ... max! And those I
receive from utilities and others are also sub MB (100 - 300 kB).
So, not sure what is going on with other posters machines getting
many MB files ... 9 .. 100 MB - but it's clearly bloated.
Good benchmarks, require samples we can share.
https://www.rsssf.org/tablest/tsjsl2hist.html
Agreed. So I printed that to file from Google Chrome via the Mac PDF
printer and got 174KB. Which seems nominal.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s933dlx0ep39tb7/Alan%27s-checklist.docx
(Download it and print to pdf, do not print it from the Dropbox site).
Is a short Word doc.
3 pages with a simple graphic, no colour.
Here it PDF's to 82 KB
Ok, trying with LibreOffice in Linux.
Export to PDF; using jpeg compression for images at 85%, and 300DPI.
And print to PDF.
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> ls -lh Alan\'s-checklist*
-rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 77K Mar 8 21:20 Alan's-checklist (print).pdf
-rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 1,9M Mar 8 21:15 Alan's-checklist.docx
-rw-r--r-- 1 cer users 104K Mar 8 21:18 Alan's-checklist.pdf
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads>
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> pdfinfo Alan\'s-checklist\
\(print\).pdf
Title: Alan's-checklist.docx
Creator: LibreOffice 7.4.3.2
Producer: LibreOffice 7.4.3.2
CreationDate: Wed Mar 8 21:20:27 2023 CET
Custom Metadata: no
Metadata Stream: no
Tagged: no
UserProperties: no
Suspects: no
Form: none
JavaScript: no
Pages: 3
Encrypted: no
Page size: 612 x 792 pts (letter)
Page rot: 0
File size: 78293 bytes
Optimized: no
PDF version: 1.4
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> pdfinfo Alan\'s-checklist.pdf
Author: Alan Browne
Creator: Writer
Producer: LibreOffice 7.4
CreationDate: Wed Mar 8 21:18:52 2023 CET
Custom Metadata: no
Metadata Stream: yes
Tagged: yes
UserProperties: no
Suspects: no
Form: none
JavaScript: no
Pages: 3
Encrypted: no
Page size: 612 x 792 pts (letter)
Page rot: 0
File size: 105568 bytes
Optimized: no
PDF version: 1.6
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads>
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> pdffonts
Alan\'s-checklist\ \(print\).pdf name
type encoding emb sub uni object ID
------------------------------------ -----------------
---------------- --- --- --- ---------
BAAAAA+Carlito-Bold TrueType
WinAnsi yes yes yes 19 0
CAAAAA+Carlito TrueType
WinAnsi yes yes yes 29 0
DAAAAA+Carlito-Italic TrueType
WinAnsi yes yes yes 24 0
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads> pdffonts
Alan\'s-checklist.pdf name
type encoding emb sub uni object ID
------------------------------------ -----------------
---------------- --- --- --- ---------
BAAAAA+Carlito-Bold TrueType
WinAnsi yes yes yes 123 0
CAAAAA+Carlito TrueType
WinAnsi yes yes yes 133 0
DAAAAA+Carlito-Italic TrueType
WinAnsi yes yes yes 128 0
cer@Telcontar:~/Download/Firefox_downloads>
I tried the export choosing 600DPI, and the size is the same as with
300DPI, 104K.
And when you do a
mutool extract Alan\'s-checklist\ \(print\).pdf
how many JPEG files do you get in the extraction ?
The source .docx has 732x621 TIFF at 96 dpi. It will likely
appear pixelated whether you select 300 or 600 DPI output.
The quality setting for the image, may affect the storage needed.
My LO is using Lossless compression at the moment. The
mutool extraction for the one image, consists of two images.
Alans-checklist.pdf 95,846 bytes
image-0010.png 732x621 at 24 bit 48,581 bytes 8 bit color
image-0013.png 732x621 at 8 bit 1,654 bytes (an "all-white" image) 8 bit grayscale
And that's because the TIFF in the .docx is 32 bit
and the software assumes 8 bits of that is annotation plane.
When I switch to lossy 85% compression, the extracted image
from the PDF appears to be larger, but who really knows
how mutool is doing this (the images stored in a PDF don't
typically have a file extension notion, they're streams with
properties). At least the PDF (logically) is smaller.
Alans-checklist.pdf 87,057 bytes lossy 85%
image-0010.png 732x621 at 24 bit 88,903 bytes 8 bit color
image-0012.png 732x621 at 8 bit 1,654 bytes (an "all-white" image) 8 bit grayscale
The ancient Acrobat Distiller, had quality settings for 24 bit
and 8 bit images, as separate settings. And that's because the
compression options used for those are different (indexed color
versus full color). A GIF image that had been used in a document,
could be programmed to receive a different treatment than
a 24-bit BMP image.
Alan may be able to get a smaller print, just by altering the method
used for the source image in the docx. That would save on the
insignificant 1,654 byte
thing being present. I've never seen an annotation plane handled this way. Normally, if it is empty and "white", you just toss the annotation plane
and move on.
But we're miles away from the grocery list test case at a gigabyte :-)
There must have been some giant pictures of cabbages in there :-)
Alan may be able to get a smaller print, just by altering the method
On 2023-03-09 03:43, Paul wrote:
Alan may be able to get a smaller print, just by altering the method
I didn't have to do anything to get that size other than use the print to PDF option. No settings. No adjustments.
On 3/9/2023 8:46 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-09 03:43, Paul wrote:
Alan may be able to get a smaller print, just by altering the method
I didn't have to do anything to get that size other than use the print
to PDF option. No settings. No adjustments.
Back in your .docx, if you work on your TIFF,
the resultant PDF drops to 77,291 bytes. I don't
know where that TIFF came from, but it's a bit weird.
On 2023-03-09 10:52, Paul wrote:- that doc is 2017).
On 3/9/2023 8:46 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-09 03:43, Paul wrote:
Alan may be able to get a smaller print, just by altering the method
I didn't have to do anything to get that size other than use the print to PDF option. No settings. No adjustments.
Back in your .docx, if you work on your TIFF,
the resultant PDF drops to 77,291 bytes. I don't
know where that TIFF came from, but it's a bit weird.
I'm only on this thread because of the absurd numbers posted in the many MB pdf files that were produced.
A diff between the 82KB I get and the 77KB you get might have piqued me in 1995.
Today it's just interesting.
But in a use sense today it's really noise. Esp. if I have to trade "tinker time" to get that difference.
What's weird about the TIIF?
As to it: I used an ancient copy of Visio under WinXP (in a VM) for that simple drawing (.vsd). I just (now) fired up WinXP + Visio. It has a .TIF export in the filesave options. That's likely how I moved it to Word on the Mac (But I don't recall
On 3/9/2023 2:24 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-09 10:52, Paul wrote:
On 3/9/2023 8:46 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-03-09 03:43, Paul wrote:
Alan may be able to get a smaller print, just by altering the method
I didn't have to do anything to get that size other than use the
print to PDF option. No settings. No adjustments.
Back in your .docx, if you work on your TIFF,
the resultant PDF drops to 77,291 bytes. I don't
know where that TIFF came from, but it's a bit weird.
I'm only on this thread because of the absurd numbers posted in the
many MB pdf files that were produced.
A diff between the 82KB I get and the 77KB you get might have piqued
me in 1995.
Today it's just interesting.
But in a use sense today it's really noise. Esp. if I have to trade
"tinker time" to get that difference.
What's weird about the TIIF?
As to it: I used an ancient copy of Visio under WinXP (in a VM) for
that simple drawing (.vsd). I just (now) fired up WinXP + Visio. It
has a .TIF export in the filesave options. That's likely how I moved
it to Word on the Mac (But I don't recall - that doc is 2017).
Of the tools I used, one complained that the ICC profile was old.
The others did not report an issue.
One tool reported the image had 884 colors. Another tool reported
on the order of 7500 colors. Whether these were side effects of
ICC, I could not tell.
The image is 32 bit, but there's nothing in the annotation plane,
so it could be stored as a 24 bit file without loss of information.
And the number of colors (via color reduction), could be low enough
that the image could be stored as 8 bit indexed without a problem.
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