I got an email today saying this price was only going to be for one day.
Don't know if that's true or not. I bought this when it was
$49 and am very glad I did. This $29 is a great price if you need it.

<https://stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-office-pro-plus-2021-for-windows-lifetime-license-email-only>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 12:23:54 -0600, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
wrote:

I got an email today saying this price was only going to be for one day.
Don't know if that's true or not. I bought this when it was
$49 and am very glad I did. This $29 is a great price if you need it.

<https://stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-office-pro-plus-2021-for-windows-lifetime-license-email-only>

Yes, it's a great price if you want Microsoft Office.

I don't.

First, I already have Microsoft Office 2016. Subsequent changes have
been very minor, and I see no reason to spend *any* money for a newer
version, especially since I use so few of the programs within it..

Second I regularly use only one of the programs in Microsoft
Office--OneNote, and another one, Excel, only very occasionally

Here are my views of each of the programs:

Microsoft Office Word - I never use it. I use WordPerfect,
which I think is much better. If I didn't already have Word
2016, and wanted to use Word or a program much like it, I
would choose the free Libre Office, rather than spend $29 on
Microsoft Office
Microsoft Office Excel - the one I use rarely. Although it's good
for what it does, I seldom have a need for it. I think I've
used it two or three times over the years.
Microsoft Office PowerPoint - I never have a need for it. I used
it only once, 15 or 20 years ago.
Microsoft Office Outlook - I used to use it, but grew to dislike
it. I greatly prefer Thunderbird for e-mail (I don't use it
for Usenet)..
Microsoft Office Teams - I know nothing about it, so I have no
opinions,
Microsoft Office OneNote - the one I use regularly. It's not
wonderful; I think it could be greatly improved, but it meets
my slim needs,
Microsoft Office Publisher - I've never used it. There are lots of
better alternatives.
Microsoft Office Access - I never have a need for it. It's
probably a rare home user who does,
Skype for Business - Does anyone still use Skype? Zoom and
other alternatives have overwhelmed Skype.

When it comes to application programs and utilities (including those
built into Windows), I think there are almost always better
third-party choices than what Microsoft offers

But of course, each to his own. Nobody has to make the same choices I
do.

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Ken Blake wrote on 2/27/2023 12:43 PM:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 12:23:54 -0600, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
wrote:

I got an email today saying this price was only going to be for one day.
Don't know if that's true or not. I bought this when it was
$49 and am very glad I did. This $29 is a great price if you need it.

<https://stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-office-pro-plus-2021-for-windows-lifetime-license-email-only>

Yes, it's a great price if you want Microsoft Office.

I don't.

First, I already have Microsoft Office 2016. Subsequent changes have
been very minor, and I see no reason to spend *any* money for a newer version, especially since I use so few of the programs within it..

Second I regularly use only one of the programs in Microsoft
Office--OneNote, and another one, Excel, only very occasionally

Here are my views of each of the programs:

Microsoft Office Word - I never use it. I use WordPerfect,
which I think is much better. If I didn't already have Word
2016, and wanted to use Word or a program much like it, I
would choose the free Libre Office, rather than spend $29 on
Microsoft Office
Microsoft Office Excel - the one I use rarely. Although it's good
for what it does, I seldom have a need for it. I think I've
used it two or three times over the years.
Microsoft Office PowerPoint - I never have a need for it. I used
it only once, 15 or 20 years ago.
Microsoft Office Outlook - I used to use it, but grew to dislike
it. I greatly prefer Thunderbird for e-mail (I don't use it
for Usenet)..
Microsoft Office Teams - I know nothing about it, so I have no
opinions,
Microsoft Office OneNote - the one I use regularly. It's not
wonderful; I think it could be greatly improved, but it meets
my slim needs,
Microsoft Office Publisher - I've never used it. There are lots of
better alternatives.
Microsoft Office Access - I never have a need for it. It's
probably a rare home user who does,
Skype for Business - Does anyone still use Skype? Zoom and
other alternatives have overwhelmed Skype.

When it comes to application programs and utilities (including those
built into Windows), I think there are almost always better
third-party choices than what Microsoft offers

But of course, each to his own. Nobody has to make the same choices I
do.

Subsequent changes for 2016 ceased for the most part two years after
intial release(Sept 2017) with only a few minor feature changes until
2019 initial release in fall 2018.

With the advent of Microsoft 365(Home/Family - subscription model) having ongoing feature updates, the stand-alone subsequent changes are about
nihil. The only common subsequent change between the any stand-alone and
M365 are security updates.

OneNote is a universal app and a desktop version...and if used, the app
for use on Win10 or Win11 is the preferred app for 2019 and later
versions of Office(stand-alone or subscription) - that desktop app is the
one installed.
- Likewise preferred over the Win10 included app or the earlier
pre-2019 included Office app(no longer secure, feature-less, unsupported).

For those who prefer Office, the choice is easy.
Spend the $29 for the limited time offer 2021 stand-alone pro version.
- even with limited use that's minimal cost for more than a few years
of use(until the next low price offer comes)
- For those that have multiple users and multiple devices(since the
2021 special offer is one person/one device) the subscription 'Family'
version that allows 6 users across any device for $99 per year may be the better long term choice(~$16 per user/yr).
- even with half the users in a family(3 users - $33 per year) vs.
$87(3 standalone discounted 2021) for those using Office for work,
school, home, the economics narrows.

While your preferences make sense for you, but for most Office is the
better choice when past and current use is the norm(and has been for
decades) across work, school, home, etc.

--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

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<winstonmvp@gmail.com> said:

For those who prefer Office, the choice is easy.
Spend the $29 for the limited time offer 2021 stand-alone pro version.
- even with limited use that's minimal cost for more than a few years
of use(until the next low price offer comes)

What is the limitation on use other than for $30, it's one PC at a time?
If you retire that one PC, can the license be moved to another?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-02-27 14:43, Ken Blake wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 12:23:54 -0600, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
wrote:

I got an email today saying this price was only going to be for one day.
Don't know if that's true or not. I bought this when it was
$49 and am very glad I did. This $29 is a great price if you need it.

<https://stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-office-pro-plus-2021-for-windows-lifetime-license-email-only>

Yes, it's a great price if you want Microsoft Office.

I don't.

First, I already have Microsoft Office 2016. Subsequent changes have
been very minor, and I see no reason to spend *any* money for a newer version, especially since I use so few of the programs within it..

Second I regularly use only one of the programs in Microsoft
Office--OneNote, and another one, Excel, only very occasionally

Here are my views of each of the programs:

If you don't use them much, how can you have "a view"?

Personally I use Excel a lot. Like many times per day for many
different things (Work and personal).

Word - often.

Powerpoint - often-ish - not that much these days.

Outlook - when I was a Windows user - powerful - a lot of very good
features. The Mac version I tried was quite buggy (10+ yrs ago). I'd
have to try it again .. Apple Mail is only "tolerable".

I do agree that MS Office apps age well - that is whatever version is on
a given machine probably does 99.999% of what I'll need even if it's a
10 yr old edition.

OTOH when I but a Mx Mac, I'll probably have to buy new licenses for the
Mx machines here. (TBD how well they'll run under Rosetta)

IMO the best thing MS does is Office and possibly Exchange (that's been
a while too...). (I too preferred Word Perfect back in the day - but
when the co. went Office, everything went Office).

IAC: $29 for a non-"rental" v. of office is a fantastic deal. I can
only salivate that such might be available for 2 Mx Macs here when the
time comes.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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On 2023-02-27 16:35, allen wrote:

<winstonmvp@gmail.com> said:

For those who prefer Office, the choice is easy.
Spend the $29 for the limited time offer 2021 stand-alone pro version.
- even with limited use that's minimal cost for more than a few years
of use(until the next low price offer comes)

What is the limitation on use other than for $30, it's one PC at a time?
If you retire that one PC, can the license be moved to another?

In the " I don't know but " department I've never had problems moving MS
Office from machine to machine (in the Mac world anyway).

Or, recently, moved a Win10 license from a Mac Mini VM to an iMac VM.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 20:01:45 -0500, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Personally I use Excel a lot. Like many times per day for many
different things (Work and personal).

I also use Excel quite a bit. In addition to things that are typically
done with a spreadsheet, I use it as a text editor, I use it when I need columns or other structured formatting containing any kind of data, and
I use it as a (limited) development platform for VBA apps, most recently
a Sudoku solver. I especially like to combine the text editor part with
the VBA part, giving me a text editor to beat all text editors.

What I don't use Excel for is to create world class art, like this
80-year old Japanese man. Check out what he's able to do with the crude painting tools in Excel. <https://interestingengineering.com/culture/80-year-old-japanese-man-uses-excel-to-create-dazzling-paintings>

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allen wrote on 2/27/2023 2:35 PM:

<winstonmvp@gmail.com> said:

For those who prefer Office, the choice is easy.
Spend the $29 for the limited time offer 2021 stand-alone pro version.
- even with limited use that's minimal cost for more than a few years
of use(until the next low price offer comes)

What is the limitation on use other than for $30, it's one PC at a time?
If you retire that one PC, can the license be moved to another?

Yes.
But since Office's activation(for many years) on stand-alone and
subscription is tied to an MSA during installation(and later use) the
same MSA should be used when installing/activating on the next device
- Note: it would be highly recommended to uninstall Office on the old
device before installing on the new device.

-For those with Family accounts subcriptions(M365 multiple users) since
those other users are shared, they remain intact on their device until
the owner(primary user) removes their emails/MSA's as a shared
individual...but the original primary user and their MSA remains the
owner of that M365 account with the only way to change owner is letting
the subscription expire(no auto-rebilling)and resubscribing/purchasing/installing with a different MSA(i.e. M365 subscriptions are not transferrable).

--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

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On 2023-02-27 20:46, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 20:01:45 -0500, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Personally I use Excel a lot. Like many times per day for many
different things (Work and personal).

I also use Excel quite a bit. In addition to things that are typically
done with a spreadsheet, I use it as a text editor, I use it when I need columns or other structured formatting containing any kind of data, and
I use it as a (limited) development platform for VBA apps, most recently
a Sudoku solver. I especially like to combine the text editor part with
the VBA part, giving me a text editor to beat all text editors.

What I don't use Excel for is to create world class art, like this
80-year old Japanese man. Check out what he's able to do with the crude painting tools in Excel. <https://interestingengineering.com/culture/80-year-old-japanese-man-uses-excel-to-create-dazzling-paintings>

That's amazing. There's a math YouTuber who has shown massive
spreadsheets with each cell being an image pixel....

Fun stuff.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 19:46:35 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:

I also use Excel ... as a (limited) development platform for VBA
apps, most recently a Sudoku solver.

Now you're playing my song! I spend an inordinate amount of time
working sudokus.

Sometimes I use this as an aid:
https://sudoku-help.com/
What I like is that it _doesn't_ solve, just does the bookkeeping via
row, column, and box rules so that I can check if I'm making (or have
made) a mistake. The author didn't use VBA, though; it's all done in
formulas.

Does yours take that approach of "just the bookkeeping", or does it
go for a full solution? And does it cover only the classic form, nine
3�3 boxes, or will it handle the jigsaw form? I've thought about
doing something like that, but haven't taken enough time to work out
a way to specify the boundaries that's reasonably easy for the user
but not too hard for the code.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 19:46:35 -0600, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 20:01:45 -0500, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Personally I use Excel a lot. Like many times per day for many
different things (Work and personal).

I also use Excel quite a bit. In addition to things that are typically
done with a spreadsheet, I use it as a text editor, I use it when I need >columns or other structured formatting containing any kind of data, and
I use it as a (limited) development platform for VBA apps, most recently
a Sudoku solver. I especially like to combine the text editor part with
the VBA part, giving me a text editor to beat all text editors.

What I don't use Excel for is to create world class art, like this
80-year old Japanese man. Check out what he's able to do with the crude >painting tools in Excel. ><https://interestingengineering.com/culture/80-year-old-japanese-man-uses-excel-to-create-dazzling-paintings>

Incredible. To me, it's not *world class* art, but I'm greatly
impressed by his ability to do this. I would have thought it was
impossible.

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On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 20:01:45 -0500, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-02-27 14:43, Ken Blake wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 12:23:54 -0600, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
wrote:

I got an email today saying this price was only going to be for one day. >>> Don't know if that's true or not. I bought this when it was
$49 and am very glad I did. This $29 is a great price if you need it.

<https://stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-office-pro-plus-2021-for-windows-lifetime-license-email-only>

Yes, it's a great price if you want Microsoft Office.

I don't.

First, I already have Microsoft Office 2016. Subsequent changes have
been very minor, and I see no reason to spend *any* money for a newer
version, especially since I use so few of the programs within it..

Second I regularly use only one of the programs in Microsoft
Office--OneNote, and another one, Excel, only very occasionally

Here are my views of each of the programs:

If you don't use them much, how can you have "a view"?

My view is based on the experience I've had with them--sometimes a lot
(with OneNote, Outlook, and Word, for example), sometimes relatively
little (with Excel and Powerpoint). When I've had no experience (such
as with Teams), I either have no view, or a weak view based on what
I've read.

I don't claim to be the supreme expert on any of these. I was merely
expressing my personal views. I know that many people have views
opposite to mine. I think WordPerfect is much better than Word, but
far more people believe the opposite. As I said, each to his own

Personally I use Excel a lot. Like many times per day for many
different things (Work and personal).

Word - often.

Powerpoint - often-ish - not that much these days.

Outlook - when I was a Windows user - powerful - a lot of very good >features. The Mac version I tried was quite buggy (10+ yrs ago). I'd
have to try it again .. Apple Mail is only "tolerable".

I do agree that MS Office apps age well - that is whatever version is on
a given machine probably does 99.999% of what I'll need even if it's a
10 yr old edition.

OTOH when I but a Mx Mac, I'll probably have to buy new licenses for the
Mx machines here. (TBD how well they'll run under Rosetta)

IMO the best thing MS does is Office and possibly Exchange (that's been
a while too...). (I too preferred Word Perfect back in the day - but
when the co. went Office, everything went Office).

IAC: $29 for a non-"rental" v. of office is a fantastic deal. I can
only salivate that such might be available for 2 Mx Macs here when the
time comes.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2/27/23 20:46, this is what Char Jackson wrote:

What I don't use Excel for is to create world class art, like this
80-year old Japanese man. Check out what he's able to do with the crude painting tools in Excel. <https://interestingengineering.com/culture/80-year-old-japanese-man-uses-excel-to-create-dazzling-paintings>

Yes, that's amazing. Didn't read to see if it explained HOW, but the output is great.
--
Al

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On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 18:19:27 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:

My rows are numbered 1-9, my columns are numbered from 1-9, and my boxes
are numbered from 1-9. The only absolute reference is the cell in the
upper left corner; everything else is referenced from there.

You should give it a shot.

I can see how that would work for the classic layout, nine 3�3 boxes,
but it's a higher level of abstraction to set up for irregularly-
shaped groups of nine. I'll ponder it some, but to be honest it's not
a high priority for me.


--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

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On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 04:45:47 -0800, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 19:46:35 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:

I also use Excel ... as a (limited) development platform for VBA
apps, most recently a Sudoku solver.

Now you're playing my song! I spend an inordinate amount of time
working sudokus.

I don't spend much time there anymore. At the time, my niece was deeply
into solving the puzzles and she liked asking me if she was on the right
track, so a completed puzzle was a big help to me. She has since moved
to other things, so Sudoku has fallen by the wayside.

Sometimes I use this as an aid:
https://sudoku-help.com/

My little VBA app has a very similar output, but there's only one grid
per puzzle rather than two. A new puzzle gets initialized by populating
each cell with the digits 1-9, then some of the cells get that string of numbers replaced by the starter values. From there, the usual
row-column-box logic gets applied, iteratively, until the puzzle is
solved. I created buttons for things like Init/Start, Solve/Evaluate,
and a toggle to either display the progress on screen or to hide all
progress and only show the results when the puzzle has been solved, or
when the logic rules have otherwise been exhausted.

Mine solves 'easy' and 'medium' puzzles, which more than covered what my
niece was doing.

What I like is that it _doesn't_ solve, just does the bookkeeping via
row, column, and box rules so that I can check if I'm making (or have
made) a mistake.

Mine could easily be stripped down to just evaluate the current state of
the puzzle and highlight any errors, but I like to watch it solve the
puzzles.

The author didn't use VBA, though; it's all done in
formulas.

As you may know, there's very little difference. Those same formulas can usually be copied verbatim and placed into a VBA module.

Does yours take that approach of "just the bookkeeping", or does it
go for a full solution?

Full solution, if it can manage. See above, it could be stripped down to
only evaluate an in-progress puzzle, but I don't use it that way.

And does it cover only the classic form, nine
3�3 boxes, or will it handle the jigsaw form?

Just the classic form. I don't think I've ever seen another form.

I've thought about
doing something like that, but haven't taken enough time to work out
a way to specify the boundaries that's reasonably easy for the user
but not too hard for the code.

My rows are numbered 1-9, my columns are numbered from 1-9, and my boxes
are numbered from 1-9. The only absolute reference is the cell in the
upper left corner; everything else is referenced from there.

You should give it a shot.

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On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 08:35:57 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 19:46:35 -0600, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 20:01:45 -0500, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Personally I use Excel a lot. Like many times per day for many
different things (Work and personal).

I also use Excel quite a bit. In addition to things that are typically
done with a spreadsheet, I use it as a text editor, I use it when I need >>columns or other structured formatting containing any kind of data, and
I use it as a (limited) development platform for VBA apps, most recently
a Sudoku solver. I especially like to combine the text editor part with
the VBA part, giving me a text editor to beat all text editors.

What I don't use Excel for is to create world class art, like this
80-year old Japanese man. Check out what he's able to do with the crude >>painting tools in Excel. >><https://interestingengineering.com/culture/80-year-old-japanese-man-uses-excel-to-create-dazzling-paintings>

Incredible. To me, it's not *world class* art, but I'm greatly
impressed by his ability to do this. I would have thought it was
impossible.

I'm easily impressed. :)

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Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote in news:duvpvhdt7rmub8q4p9bh0jgu8df9vlc0tg@4ax.com:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 12:23:54 -0600, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
wrote:

I got an email today saying this price was only going to be for one

day.

Don't know if that's true or not. I bought this when it was
$49 and am very glad I did. This $29 is a great price if you need it.

<https://stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-office-pro-plus-2021-for-

window

s-lifetime-license-email-only>

Yes, it's a great price if you want Microsoft Office.

I don't.

First, I already have Microsoft Office 2016. Subsequent changes have
been very minor, and I see no reason to spend *any* money for a newer version, especially since I use so few of the programs within it..

Second I regularly use only one of the programs in Microsoft
Office--OneNote, and another one, Excel, only very occasionally

Here are my views of each of the programs:

Microsoft Office Word - I never use it. I use WordPerfect,
which I think is much better. If I didn't already have Word
2016, and wanted to use Word or a program much like it, I
would choose the free Libre Office, rather than spend $29 on
Microsoft Office
Microsoft Office Excel - the one I use rarely. Although it's good
for what it does, I seldom have a need for it. I think I've
used it two or three times over the years.
Microsoft Office PowerPoint - I never have a need for it. I used
it only once, 15 or 20 years ago.
Microsoft Office Outlook - I used to use it, but grew to dislike
it. I greatly prefer Thunderbird for e-mail (I don't use it
for Usenet)..
Microsoft Office Teams - I know nothing about it, so I have no
opinions,
Microsoft Office OneNote - the one I use regularly. It's not
wonderful; I think it could be greatly improved, but it meets
my slim needs,
Microsoft Office Publisher - I've never used it. There are lots of
better alternatives.
Microsoft Office Access - I never have a need for it. It's
probably a rare home user who does,
Skype for Business - Does anyone still use Skype? Zoom and
other alternatives have overwhelmed Skype.

When it comes to application programs and utilities (including those
built into Windows), I think there are almost always better
third-party choices than what Microsoft offers

But of course, each to his own. Nobody has to make the same choices I
do.

I have done it but have had problems
a) I did it because I prefer Outlook to Thunderbird, but uninstalling my Outlook 2010 has removed my profiles and hence my address books - are
they hiding somewhere or am I stuffed?
b) The version of Onenote it installs is not the same version I have on
my desktop, phone and tablet and they behave in slightly different ways.
Can I get the new one on my devices or do I just ignore it?

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