Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 OS build 19044.2604

The help text from "dir /?" says that the /X option will display the
short name in a column before the long name, or blanks if there is no
8.3 short name.

I did "dir /a:d /x" (without quotes) to list subfolders of a
directory, and the column for short names was blank.

Does that mean that long file and directory names are no longer
accompanied by short names, or is there some way I can access the
hidden shortnames?

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2/16/23 20:41, this is what Stan Brown wrote:

Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 OS build 19044.2604

The help text from "dir /?" says that the /X option will display the
short name in a column before the long name, or blanks if there is no
8.3 short name.

I did "dir /a:d /x" (without quotes) to list subfolders of a
directory, and the column for short names was blank.

Does that mean that long file and directory names are no longer
accompanied by short names, or is there some way I can access the
hidden shortnames?

Try just dir /x
What happens then.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 OS build 19044.2604

The help text from "dir /?" says that the /X option will display the
short name in a column before the long name, or blanks if there is no
8.3 short name.

I did "dir /a:d /x" (without quotes) to list subfolders of a
directory, and the column for short names was blank.

Does that mean that long file and directory names are no longer
accompanied by short names, or is there some way I can access the
hidden shortnames?

More likely you turned off short-name generation, formatted without the
/s option, or the drive was pre-formatted for you without shortname
support.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/fsutil-8dot3name

For example:

fsutil 8dot3name query

won't tell you much, but (assuming your command shell opens with C:\ as
the default folder):

fsutil 8dot3name query c:\windows

will show if 8.3 filenaming is enabled or not (on that folder, not on
the subfolders). Back in the days of old, when dinosaurs still roamed
the Earth (i.e., Windows XP and 2000), the default for the NtfsDisable3dot3NameCreate registry value was 0 meaning not to enable
the disable (it's a negative registry entry) on generating short
filenames in the MFT along with the long filenames. See:

https://guyrleech.wordpress.com/2014/04/15/ntfs-8-3-short-names-solving-the-issues/
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-server-2003/cc778996(v=ws.10)

Sometimes 8.3 filenaming is disabled for security reasons. Operations
that move or rename lots of folder would get slowed in having to create
new folders with both long and short names when only the long name was
needed (which, by the way, can still be formatted like a shortname).

As noted in the first article, most users omit the /s:<state> (where
<state> is 0 to enable or 1 to disable) argument in a 'format' command.
So, they end up formatting the file system with the shortname state
disabled (the default if /s is omitted).

Creating shortnames automatically was something of a mess. To get the
filename under 8 characters often requires squashing it which meant
truncating the filename, and appending a tilde (~) character and a
number, like in PROGRA~1 and PROGRA~2, but how would you know which
long-named folder was for ~1 and for ~2 by just looking at the
shortnames? The shortnames was to accomodate the ancient and limited
number of characters allowing in filenames back in the DOS days. You
still use [MS|IBM]DOS?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Stan Brown wrote on 2/16/2023 6:41 PM:

Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 OS build 19044.2604

The help text from "dir /?" says that the /X option will display the
short name in a column before the long name, or blanks if there is no
8.3 short name.

I did "dir /a:d /x" (without quotes) to list subfolders of a
directory, and the column for short names was blank.

Does that mean that long file and directory names are no longer
accompanied by short names, or is there some way I can access the
hidden shortnames?

Are you certain short names are present(for files)?

/X
This displays the short names generated for non-8dot3 file names. The
format is that of /N with the short name inserted before the long name.
If no short name is present, blanks are displayed in its place

Compare /N vs. /X



--
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 21:48:19 -0500, Big Al wrote:

On 2/16/23 20:41, this is what Stan Brown wrote:

Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 OS build 19044.2604

The help text from "dir /?" says that the /X option will display the
short name in a column before the long name, or blanks if there is no
8.3 short name.

I did "dir /a:d /x" (without quotes) to list subfolders of a
directory, and the column for short names was blank.

Does that mean that long file and directory names are no longer
accompanied by short names, or is there some way I can access the
hidden shortnames?

Try just dir /x
What happens then.

A blank column where the short names would have been in Windows 7.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 20:54:00 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

Creating shortnames automatically was something of a mess. To get the >filename under 8 characters often requires squashing it which meant >truncating the filename, and appending a tilde (~) character and a
number, like in PROGRA~1 and PROGRA~2, but how would you know which >long-named folder was for ~1 and for ~2 by just looking at the
shortnames? The shortnames was to accomodate the ancient and limited
number of characters allowing in filenames back in the DOS days. You
still use [MS|IBM]DOS?

At the opposite end of the filenaming spectrum, we not only have a
default 260-character filename limit, but we also have ways to bypass
that limit to get even longer filenames.

I recently downloaded something that, when extracted, gave me a filename
longer than 2000 characters. I ended up using 7-Zip to bypass the normal 260-char limit, which was probably the first time I've ever found a use
for 7-Zip.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 20:54:00 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 OS build 19044.2604

More likely you turned off short-name generation, formatted without the
/s option, or the drive was pre-formatted for you without shortname
support.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/fsutil-8dot3name

For example:
fsutil 8dot3name query
won't tell you much, but (assuming your command shell opens with C:\ as
the default folder):
fsutil 8dot3name query c:\windows
will show if 8.3 filenaming is enabled or not (on that folder, not on
the subfolders). Back in the days of old, when dinosaurs still roamed
the Earth (i.e., Windows XP and 2000), the default for the NtfsDisable3dot3NameCreate registry value was 0 meaning not to enable
the disable (it's a negative registry entry) on generating short
filenames in the MFT along with the long filenames. See:

You've nailed it. The partition of concern is the D: partition that I
created to hold 100 GB of iTunes library. I didn't even think about
enabling short filenames, because that was the default in my copies
of Windows 7 and 8.1.

I ran the fsutil command in an administrative prompt. Result:
The volume state is: 1 (8dot3 name creation is disabled).
The registry state is: 2 (Per volume setting - the default).
Based on the above settings, 8dot3 name creation is disabled
on d:
And that reminded me that I _have_ seen shortnames on the C drive.
"C:\Program Files (x86)" and "C:\Program Files" are C:\PROGRA~1 and
C:\PROGRA~2 or vice versa.

What shortnames would be in aid of is getting around the issue in the "character weirdness" thread that I also started today. I'm trying to
set up a list of directories and then have a batch file read it and
robocopy from my D: partition to one or another USB stick. (My car
has a limit of 9999 files per stick, and my iTunes library is rather
larger than that.)

However, now that you've set me straight on 8.3 shortnames in my
other thread, I think that's really the answer. Shortnames won't
use special characters or contain spaces, so they shouldn't pose a
problem for robocopy. And my car doesn't care how the folders on
the USB stick are named, so I can just use the shortnames as the
_only_ folder names on my USB stick's exFAT volume, viz:
robocopy d:\iTunesMusic\DVORAK~1 s:\Music\DVORAK~1 /mir
(My car's audio system doesn't recognize NTFS formatting, which is no surprise.)

https://guyrleech.wordpress.com/2014/04/15/ntfs-8-3-short-names-solving-the-issues/

This was interesting, and I read the previous article to learn about
the robocopy issue he was referring to. That won't affect me, since
I'll be copying from shortname to shortname, and the folders on the
exFAT volume won't have any longnames. (Shortnames are already
enabled on the USB sticks; that must be the default for exFAT.)

So I think I need to do this:
fsutil 8dot3name set d: 0
(or maybe fsutil 8dot3name set d:\iTunesMusic\Music 0 ? But no, it's
a setting by volume not by folder, right?)
Then there's the issue of assigning shortnames to the composer-name
folders. Leech had a utility to do that, but a comment to his article
from 2021 said that it was no longer available, and he didn't post
any correction. It's in my mind to list the folders to a file, delete
the lines for the three folders that have these above-255 Unicode
characters, and then edit the rest to have the form

fsutil file setshortname
"d:\iTunesMusic\Music\Beethoven, Ludwig van (1770-1827)" BEETHO~1

and run it as a batch file. For the three with Unicode characters, I
can do some manual renaming in File Explorer, assign a shortname at
the command line, then rename the longname back to the original.
Are there any flaws in this plan, as far as you can tell?

Sometimes 8.3 filenaming is disabled for security reasons. Operations
that move or rename lots of folder would get slowed in having to create
new folders with both long and short names when only the long name was
needed (which, by the way, can still be formatted like a shortname).

Almost all of the roughly 300 folders will be of the form xxxxxx~1.
There are three or four doublets or triplets, for example a folder
for Beethoven, one for Beethoven arranged by Person A, and a third
for Beethoven arranged by Person B, so those would be something like
BEETHO~1, BEETHO~2, and BEETHO~3. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but
I don't expect a significant performance issue in my use case since
the multiple creations happen only once, there aren't many of them,
and iTunes accesses folders by their longnames anyway.

As noted in the first article, most users omit the /s:<state> (where
<state> is 0 to enable or 1 to disable) argument in a 'format' command.
So, they end up formatting the file system with the shortname state
disabled (the default if /s is omitted).

It's been over a year, but I think I formatted my partitions, other
than the preinstalled C: for Windows, in the diskmgmt console, and I
don't think the GUI even offered that option.

Creating shortnames automatically was something of a mess. To get the filename under 8 characters often requires squashing it which meant truncating the filename, and appending a tilde (~) character and a
number, like in PROGRA~1 and PROGRA~2, but how would you know which long-named folder was for ~1 and for ~2 by just looking at the
shortnames? The shortnames was to accomodate the ancient and limited
number of characters allowing in filenames back in the DOS days. You
still use [MS|IBM]DOS?

TCCLE actually. It used to offer a zillion features that weren't in
CMD.EXE. CMD.EXE has caught up with a lot of them in recent years,
but of course the implementations aren't the same, so I can't just
start running my TCCLE batches in CMD.EXE.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

Creating shortnames automatically was something of a mess. To get the >>filename under 8 characters often requires squashing it which meant >>truncating the filename, and appending a tilde (~) character and a
number, like in PROGRA~1 and PROGRA~2, but how would you know which >>long-named folder was for ~1 and for ~2 by just looking at the
shortnames? The shortnames was to accomodate the ancient and limited >>number of characters allowing in filenames back in the DOS days. You
still use [MS|IBM]DOS?

At the opposite end of the filenaming spectrum, we not only have a
default 260-character filename limit, but we also have ways to bypass
that limit to get even longer filenames.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/The-Windows-10-default-path-length-limitation-MAX-PATH-is-256-characters.html
"Starting in Windows 10 (Version 1607), the MAX_PATH limitations have
been removed from Common Win32 file and directory functions. To use the
new extended path behavior, you must opt-in by using a registry key
change."

https://www.microfocus.com/documentation/filr/filr-4/filr-desktop/t47bx2ogpfz7.html

All policies are registry entries. If you look to the navpath
mentioned, the value may not be defined which means the default gets
used.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/maximum-file-path-limitation?tabs=registry
"The Windows API has many functions that also have Unicode versions to
permit an extended-length path for a maximum total path length of 32,767 characters."

So what program you use, and depending on which file I/O API it uses, or defining the registry entry will determine max path length is supported.

I find programs that use excessively long paths are due to bad coding by
lazy programmers that cannot cogitate a shorter path name.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Stan Brown wrote:

A blank column where the short names would have been in Windows 7.

Hi Stan,
You've helped me so I took an interest in this thread, but I don't
understand the problem so I'm only posting to show my results to you.

This is a lazy cut and paste without editing, so let me know what you
need me to run on my (winver === 21H2 19044.2604) Windows 10 Pro build.

c:\Windows> dir /a:d /x
Volume in drive C is andy
Volume Serial Number is 0000-0000

Directory of c:\Windows

02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> .
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> ..
12/07/2019 09:51 AM <DIR> addins
08/15/2020 12:54 PM <DIR> appcompat
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> apppatch
02/14/2023 05:33 AM <DIR> AppReadiness
02/15/2023 05:18 AM <DIR> assembly
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> bcastdvr
12/07/2019 09:54 AM <DIR> BITLOC~1 BitLockerDiscoveryVolumeContents
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> Boot
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Branding
02/14/2023 09:23 PM <DIR> CbsTemp
12/07/2019 10:16 AM <DIR> Containers
08/15/2020 04:51 AM <DIR> CSC
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Cursors
08/15/2020 08:45 AM <DIR> debug
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> diagnostics
10/15/2021 05:48 AM <DIR> DiagTrack
12/07/2019 09:50 AM <DIR> DIGITA~1 DigitalLocker
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Downloaded Program Files 07/08/2022 01:23 AM <DIR> ELAMBKUP
12/14/2022 07:39 AM <DIR> en-US
11/10/2022 05:39 AM <DIR> Fonts
04/14/2021 04:43 AM <DIR> FONTS_~1 Fonts_For_Special_Tasks 12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> GameBarPresenceWriter 12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> Globalization
09/08/2020 09:47 AM <DIR> Help
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> IdentityCRL
01/13/2021 09:22 AM <DIR> IME
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> ImmersiveControlPanel 02/17/2023 03:54 PM <DIR> INF
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> InputMethod
02/15/2023 05:18 PM <DIR> Installer
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> L2Schemas
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> LanguageOverlayCache 12/07/2022 07:38 PM <DIR> LiveKernelReports 01/16/2023 06:46 AM <DIR> Logs
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> Media
02/17/2023 04:01 PM <DIR> Microsoft.NET
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Migration
12/27/2021 03:28 AM <DIR> Minidump
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> ModemLogs
01/02/2022 11:26 PM <DIR> NEWFOL~1 New folder
12/07/2019 09:52 AM <DIR> OCR
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Offline Web Pages 10/28/2020 07:19 AM <DIR> Panther
08/27/2020 03:38 AM <DIR> PCHEALTH
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Performance
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> PLA
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> PolicyDefinitions 02/17/2023 04:12 PM <DIR> Prefetch
07/13/2022 04:48 AM <DIR> PrintDialog
12/14/2022 07:39 AM <DIR> Provisioning
09/16/2020 07:14 AM <DIR> pss
09/26/2020 02:16 PM <DIR> REGIST~1 registration
12/07/2019 09:54 AM <DIR> REMOTE~1 RemotePackages
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> rescache
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> Resources
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> SchCache
11/23/2022 04:48 PM <DIR> schemas
12/07/2019 09:54 AM <DIR> security
08/15/2020 04:42 AM <DIR> SERVIC~1 ServiceProfiles
08/07/2022 08:38 AM <DIR> ServiceState
06/15/2022 11:01 PM <DIR> servicing
12/07/2019 09:18 AM <DIR> Setup
07/13/2022 04:48 AM <DIR> ShellComponents
08/06/2022 10:47 PM <DIR> ShellExperiences
08/28/2020 01:39 AM <DIR> SHELLNEW
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> SKB
08/15/2020 04:54 AM <DIR> SOFTWA~1 SoftwareDistribution 12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Speech
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Speech_OneCore
07/18/2021 05:28 PM <DIR> System
02/17/2023 03:54 PM <DIR> System32
02/15/2023 08:15 AM <DIR> SystemApps
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> SystemResources
12/17/2021 06:15 AM <DIR> SYSTEM~1 SystemTemp
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> SysWOW64
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> TAPI
11/16/2020 03:16 AM <DIR> Tasks
02/17/2023 04:21 PM <DIR> temp
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> tracing
05/11/2020 05:43 AM <DIR> twain_32
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Vss
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> WaaS
09/18/2021 04:46 PM <DIR> Web
02/15/2023 05:11 AM <DIR> WinSxS

c:\Windows> dir /x
Volume in drive C is andy
Volume Serial Number is 0000-0000

Directory of c:\Windows

02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> .
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> ..
12/07/2019 09:51 AM <DIR> addins
08/15/2020 12:54 PM <DIR> appcompat
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> apppatch
02/14/2023 05:33 AM <DIR> AppReadiness
03/29/2012 01:15 AM 38,177 atiogl.xml
08/15/2020 07:29 AM 0 ativpsrm.bin
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> bcastdvr
09/15/2021 06:27 PM 81,408 bfsvc.exe
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> Boot
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Branding
02/14/2023 09:23 PM <DIR> CbsTemp
12/07/2019 10:16 AM <DIR> Containers
08/15/2020 04:51 AM <DIR> CSC
08/02/2008 12:21 AM 102,912 CtDrvIns.exe
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Cursors
08/15/2020 08:45 AM <DIR> debug
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> diagnostics
10/15/2021 05:48 AM <DIR> DiagTrack
12/07/2019 09:50 AM <DIR> DIGITA~1 DigitalLocker
12/06/2022 08:52 PM 7,934 DPINST.LOG
12/14/2022 07:39 AM <DIR> en-US
12/16/2021 04:17 AM 701 evim.bat
02/14/2023 09:16 PM 5,253,864 explorer.exe
04/28/2002 11:00 PM 5,515 fmachine.ini
04/14/2021 04:43 AM <DIR> FONTS_~1 Fonts_For_Special_Tasks 12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> GameBarPresenceWriter 12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> Globalization
12/16/2021 04:17 AM 701 gview.bat
12/16/2021 04:17 AM 697 gvim.bat
12/16/2021 04:17 AM 701 gvimdiff.bat
09/08/2020 09:47 AM <DIR> Help
10/22/2022 12:49 AM 1,075,712 HelpPane.exe
12/07/2019 09:09 AM 18,432 hh.exe
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> IdentityCRL
01/13/2021 09:22 AM <DIR> IME
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> ImmersiveControlPanel 02/17/2023 03:54 PM <DIR> INF
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> InputMethod
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> L2Schemas
12/07/2022 07:38 PM <DIR> LiveKernelReports 01/16/2023 06:46 AM <DIR> Logs
08/15/2020 04:42 AM 1,376 lsasetup.log
12/07/2019 09:08 AM 43,131 mib.bin
02/17/2023 04:01 PM <DIR> Microsoft.NET
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Migration
12/27/2021 03:28 AM <DIR> Minidump
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> ModemLogs
01/02/2022 11:26 PM <DIR> NEWFOL~1 New folder
08/06/2022 04:56 PM 201,216 notepad.exe
03/04/2008 08:00 AM 28,672 OA002Cfg.exe
12/07/2019 09:52 AM <DIR> OCR
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Offline Web Pages 10/28/2020 07:19 AM <DIR> Panther
08/27/2020 03:38 AM <DIR> PCHEALTH
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Performance
02/17/2023 03:49 PM 458,260 PFRO.log
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> PLA
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> PolicyDefinitions 02/17/2023 04:12 PM <DIR> Prefetch
07/13/2022 04:48 AM <DIR> PrintDialog
12/07/2019 09:10 AM 30,831 PROFES~1.XML Professional.xml
12/14/2022 07:39 AM <DIR> Provisioning
09/16/2020 07:14 AM <DIR> pss
01/13/2021 08:39 AM 370,176 regedit.exe
09/26/2020 02:16 PM <DIR> REGIST~1 registration
12/07/2019 09:54 AM <DIR> REMOTE~1 RemotePackages
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> rescache
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> Resources
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> SchCache
11/23/2022 04:48 PM <DIR> schemas
12/07/2019 09:54 AM <DIR> security
08/15/2020 04:42 AM <DIR> SERVIC~1 ServiceProfiles
08/07/2022 08:38 AM <DIR> ServiceState
06/15/2022 11:01 PM <DIR> servicing
12/07/2019 09:18 AM <DIR> Setup
02/17/2023 04:36 PM 1,434,055 setupact.log
08/15/2020 04:42 AM 0 setuperr.log
07/13/2022 04:48 AM <DIR> ShellComponents
08/06/2022 10:47 PM <DIR> ShellExperiences
08/28/2020 01:39 AM <DIR> SHELLNEW
12/07/2019 09:31 AM <DIR> SKB
08/15/2020 04:54 AM <DIR> SOFTWA~1 SoftwareDistribution 12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Speech
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Speech_OneCore
02/14/2023 09:16 PM 163,840 splwow64.exe
07/18/2021 05:28 PM <DIR> System
12/07/2019 09:12 AM 219 system.ini
02/17/2023 03:54 PM <DIR> System32
02/15/2023 08:15 AM <DIR> SystemApps
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> SystemResources
12/17/2021 06:15 AM <DIR> SYSTEM~1 SystemTemp
02/15/2023 01:01 AM <DIR> SysWOW64
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> TAPI
11/16/2020 03:16 AM <DIR> Tasks
02/17/2023 04:21 PM <DIR> temp
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> tracing
05/11/2020 05:43 AM <DIR> twain_32
12/07/2019 09:10 AM 65,024 twain_32.dll
12/16/2021 04:17 AM 376 view.bat
12/16/2021 04:17 AM 374 vim.bat
12/16/2021 04:17 AM 376 vimdiff.bat
12/16/2021 04:17 AM 399 vimtutor.bat
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> Vss
12/07/2019 09:14 AM <DIR> WaaS
09/18/2021 04:46 PM <DIR> Web
09/27/2020 07:06 AM 155 win.ini
02/17/2023 04:20 PM 276 WINDOW~1.LOG WindowsUpdate.log 12/07/2019 09:10 AM 11,776 winhlp32.exe
02/08/2021 03:25 PM 64 wininit.ini
02/15/2023 05:11 AM <DIR> WinSxS
12/07/2019 09:53 AM 316,640 WMSysPr9.prx
12/06/2019 09:29 PM 11,264 write.exe
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to help Stan out by posting my results for him.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

I find programs that use excessively long paths are due to bad coding by
lazy programmers that cannot cogitate a shorter path name.

On the other hand, programs that accommodate to _users'_ long paths
are a good thing, IMHO. Robocopy will accept long paths, for
instance, up to "almost 32,000" characters, unless you use the /256
option to limit paths. No registry change is required, so it must be
using a different mechanism.

Perhaps due to using the Unicode file I/O API (maximum total path length
of 32,767 characters) mentioned in the Microsoft article.

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On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 00:55:33 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/The-Windows-10-default-path-length-limitation-MAX-PATH-is-256-characters.html
"Starting in Windows 10 (Version 1607), the MAX_PATH limitations have
been removed from Common Win32 file and directory functions. To use the
new extended path behavior, you must opt-in by using a registry key
change."

So what program you use, and depending on which file I/O API it uses, or defining the registry entry will determine max path length is supported.

I find programs that use excessively long paths are due to bad coding by
lazy programmers that cannot cogitate a shorter path name.

On the other hand, programs that accommodate to _users'_ long paths
are a good thing, IMHO. Robocopy will accept long paths, for
instance, up to "almost 32,000" characters, unless you use the /256
option to limit paths. No registry change is required, so it must be
using a different mechanism.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

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XPost: alt.comp.microsoft.windows

Stan Brown wrote:

I did "dir /a:d /x" (without quotes) to list subfolders of a
directory, and the column for short names was blank.

Since we're like drinking buddies who help each other, I looked up what
"a:d" meant in a dir command since I've never seen that ":" syntax before.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/363639/how-to-use-the-dir-command-in-windows/>

Now I know. Thanks Stan. And if others are interested, please read onward.

To display just the directories in the current path, you can use this.

dir /ad

Use this if you do NOT want to see any directories in the current path.

dir /a-d

Instead of cramming the main switch and the letter code together, you can
use a colon to separate the switch from its optional codes. Like this:

dir /a:d

The /X switch shows a file's short name when the long name doesn't comply
with 8.3 naming rules.

dir /X

--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to clarify what the a:d options did for the OP.

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On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:25:52 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

I find programs that use excessively long paths are due to bad coding by >> lazy programmers that cannot cogitate a shorter path name.

On the other hand, programs that accommodate to _users'_ long paths
are a good thing, IMHO. Robocopy will accept long paths, for
instance, up to "almost 32,000" characters, unless you use the /256
option to limit paths. No registry change is required, so it must be
using a different mechanism.

Perhaps due to using the Unicode file I/O API (maximum total path length
of 32,767 characters) mentioned in the Microsoft article.

But then it seems odd they would say "almost 32,000"characters rather
than "over 32,000" or "about "32,000"or even "32,767".

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

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On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 17:24:51 +0000, Andy Burnelli wrote:

The /X switch shows a file's short name when the long name doesn't comply with 8.3 naming rules.

dir /X

Important qualification: ... IF the file _has_ a shortname. You may
not have seen Vanguard's work, but he hit the nail on the head by
asking whether shortnames were even enabled on my d: drive.
Apparently Windows 10 changed the default from shortnames to no
shortnames, so they must be enabled at format time or later, if you
want them.

My c: drive has the sort of shortnames you posted, but my d: drive
has none. I'm guessing that despite the normal "no shortnames"
default, the Windows drive defaults to shortnames, because too many
programs would break otherwise.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

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Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:25:52 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

I find programs that use excessively long paths are due to bad coding by >>>> lazy programmers that cannot cogitate a shorter path name.

On the other hand, programs that accommodate to _users'_ long paths
are a good thing, IMHO. Robocopy will accept long paths, for
instance, up to "almost 32,000" characters, unless you use the /256
option to limit paths. No registry change is required, so it must be
using a different mechanism.

Perhaps due to using the Unicode file I/O API (maximum total path length
of 32,767 characters) mentioned in the Microsoft article.

But then it seems odd they would say "almost 32,000"characters rather
than "over 32,000" or "about "32,000"or even "32,767".

MS does say 32,767 characters.

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On 2/17/2023 10:03 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:25:52 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

I find programs that use excessively long paths are due to bad coding by >>>>> lazy programmers that cannot cogitate a shorter path name.

On the other hand, programs that accommodate to _users'_ long paths
are a good thing, IMHO. Robocopy will accept long paths, for
instance, up to "almost 32,000" characters, unless you use the /256
option to limit paths. No registry change is required, so it must be
using a different mechanism.

Perhaps due to using the Unicode file I/O API (maximum total path length >>> of 32,767 characters) mentioned in the Microsoft article.

But then it seems odd they would say "almost 32,000"characters rather
than "over 32,000" or "about "32,000"or even "32,767".

MS does say 32,767 characters.

"To specify an extended-length path, use the "\\?\" prefix.
For example, "\\?\D:\very long path".

Note

The maximum path of 32,767 characters is approximate, because the
"\\?\" prefix may be expanded to a longer string by the system at
run time, and this expansion applies to the total length."

PS C:\Users\Barbaranne\Downloads> move \\?\C:\Users\Barbaranne\Downloads\A.txt \\?\C:\Users\Barbaranne\Downloads\AAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.txt
move : The specified path, file name, or both are too long. The fully qualified file name must be less than 260
characters, and the directory name must be less than 248 characters.

This suggests the purpose of "long path" is to make deep folder structures.

The design is not going to cause "stress" on the $MFT whatsoever.
Nothing is really changing. The filesystem does not need to be
"massaged" when you set that regedit variable.

And before you still consider this to be clever somehow,
remember that there are various programs with 20 level deep
limitations on folders. Even your *virus scanner* may refuse
to go super-deep. If you used minimal-length directory names,
the folder depth could become very deep indeed.

Paul

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