My laptop is plugged in but it won't turn on and the LED that shows it's charging isn't lit, even though it's plugged into a charger and the
charger output is measured just now at about 17vDC

I'm not surprised the battery is dead, I haven't used it for 6 months or
more, but I do remember the charging-led working the last time it
worked.

This seems like an unusual sort of failure. Does it seem very
improbable to you too?

After "charging" for 30 minutes, it still won't turn on and the CD drive
won't open by presssing the button. Is there a reset I don't know
about? Could a failed battery keep the light from going on? Shouldn't
it run off the charger even if the battery is bad? I know the answers
are No, No, and Yes, but I'm grasping at straws.


A friend gave me this Acer aspire E15, also called an E5-573-35AQ

It worked fine when I got it and I added software. I think I bought a
new psu to replace the missing one.

Does this sound like something a very handy person could himself?

(My friend called me to ask if he had left certain software on it. I
don't think so but I was checking. If it's broken it's a good thing I
know now instead of just before I leave on a trip.)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

micky wrote:

My laptop is plugged in but it won't turn on and the LED that shows it's charging isn't lit, even though it's plugged into a charger and the
charger output is measured just now at about 17vDC

I'm not surprised the battery is dead, I haven't used it for 6 months or more, but I do remember the charging-led working the last time it
worked.

This seems like an unusual sort of failure. Does it seem very
improbable to you too?

After "charging" for 30 minutes, it still won't turn on and the CD drive won't open by presssing the button. Is there a reset I don't know
about? Could a failed battery keep the light from going on? Shouldn't
it run off the charger even if the battery is bad? I know the answers
are No, No, and Yes, but I'm grasping at straws.

A friend gave me this Acer aspire E15, also called an E5-573-35AQ

It worked fine when I got it and I added software. I think I bought a
new psu to replace the missing one.

Does this sound like something a very handy person could himself?

(My friend called me to ask if he had left certain software on it. I
don't think so but I was checking. If it's broken it's a good thing I
know now instead of just before I leave on a trip.)

The pack has probably run down, below the charging threshold.

The internal charge management, won't shove any charge into it at
all, if it does not meet the minimum voltage. When it goes below
the minimum voltage, one or more of the cells will reverse bias
and metallic lithium plates out, which is a fire hazard.

Discharge Full +--
Curve | \ <--- Store pack, slightly less than full
| \
Empty + +-- Hibernate -
| \__
TooLate } \______ CanNotCharge

If you run a laptop so low, that the battery display reads "0%",
the pack voltage is still above the minimum by a bit. If you
drain a laptop, hibernate it, then put it in a closet for three
months, this would be bad, as it could drop to CanNotCharge.
That's why, if putting a laptop away for months on end, you
pull the pack (pack will still "self-discharge"), and ensure the
battery display read about 80% before disassembly. That's how mine
is stored right now - pack out (which runs down the CMOS CR2032 of
course, so that's the tradeoff - CMOS cells are cheaper than packs.)

The battery management chip inside the pack, could have written
in it by the computer, that the pack has been to the CanNotCharge
voltage and even if you "lifted" the cells individually, it would
not help. If you lifted the pack, artificially above "Empty",
there is no particular reason for the charger to try to refill it.
It reads the battery management chip over the serial bus on the
multi-contact pack connector, and discovers that status bit.

By reading the serial bus connection to the battery pack, the
log information about pack health can be read by the computer.
Any similar model of machine could read it, and come to the
same conclusion it should not be charged (for safety reasons).

Now, in a past time, lifting the cells might have worked, because
Battery Management did not babysit the user quite as much.

Pulling the pack, the laptop should run off the wall adapter.
Mine does. Any time you plan on doing a lengthy calc with
a laptop, unplugging the pack avoids attempts to keep
charging the thing, over and over again. Storing the pack
at 80% full makes more sense than keeping a laptop running
constantly with pack in place, and the pack averages 95% to 100%
charge (which is not good for the pack lifetime).

Back in NiCd days, the batteries functioned as a "regulator",
in really cheaply designed product. Pulling the cells from
such units, could "blow" the laptop. But on modern Lithium Cobalt
systems, the regulation and MOSFET features are such, the laptop
is protected from most user-orchestrated catastrophes.

Pull pack, plug adapter to laptop, and test it still works.

No blue charging light is coming on again, until a new pack
is presented to the machine, one above CanNotCharge voltage
and no record in the battery chip, of abuse.

Make sure that the voltage listed on the adapter, is what
appears on the adapter contacts. On a 19V adapter, the output
voltage should be +/- 0.5V, which means 18.5V is valid and
19.5V is valid. Any value between those two, is close enough
to make it work. "Universal adapters" on occasion, are way
off from the desired value, which is why the magic smoke
comes out a month later. While the third-party manufacturer
claims it is "Universal", the laptop manufacturer made some
assumptions too, about how close the custom adapter
provided, has to be to a "correct voltage" value. If
the laptop expects 19.0V in, the adapter is not allowed to be
too sloppy.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Yikes, it took over an hour but the charging light went on. I guess I panicked. Very sorry.

And it starts.

It took an hour just for the charging light to glow red and that isn't
even one of the choices. The manual says amber for charging and blue
for charged. The systray icon says 18%, and 1 hour 48 minutes to fully charged.

Should I get a new battery?

My apology again.

Micky

PS. It says it's running v20H2, build 19042.867, which is later than
the version on the computer I use every day, this one which is
19042.844. Even though I haven't turned the thing on for 6 months or
more, or maybe less, maybe 4 months! (It did have some updates
available.)


In alt.comp.hardware, on Fri, 27 Aug 2021 00:37:23 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

My laptop is plugged in but it won't turn on and the LED that shows it's >charging isn't lit, even though it's plugged into a charger and the
charger output is measured just now at about 17vDC

I'm not surprised the battery is dead, I haven't used it for 6 months or >more, but I do remember the charging-led working the last time it
worked.

This seems like an unusual sort of failure. Does it seem very
improbable to you too?

After "charging" for 30 minutes, it still won't turn on and the CD drive >won't open by presssing the button. Is there a reset I don't know
about? Could a failed battery keep the light from going on? Shouldn't
it run off the charger even if the battery is bad? I know the answers
are No, No, and Yes, but I'm grasping at straws.

A friend gave me this Acer aspire E15, also called an E5-573-35AQ

It worked fine when I got it and I added software. I think I bought a
new psu to replace the missing one.

Does this sound like something a very handy person could himself?

(My friend called me to ask if he had left certain software on it. I
don't think so but I was checking. If it's broken it's a good thing I
know now instead of just before I leave on a trip.)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

My laptop is plugged in but it won't turn on and the LED that shows it's charging isn't lit, even though it's plugged into a charger and the
charger output is measured just now at about 17vDC

I'm not surprised the battery is dead, I haven't used it for 6 months or more, but I do remember the charging-led working the last time it
worked.

This seems like an unusual sort of failure. Does it seem very
improbable to you too?

After "charging" for 30 minutes, it still won't turn on and the CD drive won't open by presssing the button. Is there a reset I don't know
about? Could a failed battery keep the light from going on? Shouldn't
it run off the charger even if the battery is bad? I know the answers
are No, No, and Yes, but I'm grasping at straws.

A friend gave me this Acer aspire E15, also called an E5-573-35AQ

It worked fine when I got it and I added software. I think I bought a
new psu to replace the missing one.

Does this sound like something a very handy person could himself?

(My friend called me to ask if he had left certain software on it. I
don't think so but I was checking. If it's broken it's a good thing I
know now instead of just before I leave on a trip.)

For some laptops, a dead battery means it won't power up, even when
using an A/C power adapter. Sometimes physically removing the battery
will get the adapter to work.

The Acer aspire E15 was introduced back in 2014. Maybe your friend
realized the battery was crap, and dumped it on you expecting you to pay
for a new battery (~$25 on Amazon).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In alt.comp.hardware, on Fri, 27 Aug 2021 02:56:40 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

My laptop is plugged in but it won't turn on and the LED that shows it's
charging isn't lit, even though it's plugged into a charger and the
charger output is measured just now at about 17vDC

I'm not surprised the battery is dead, I haven't used it for 6 months or
more, but I do remember the charging-led working the last time it
worked.

This seems like an unusual sort of failure. Does it seem very
improbable to you too?

After "charging" for 30 minutes, it still won't turn on and the CD drive
won't open by presssing the button. Is there a reset I don't know
about? Could a failed battery keep the light from going on? Shouldn't
it run off the charger even if the battery is bad? I know the answers
are No, No, and Yes, but I'm grasping at straws.

A friend gave me this Acer aspire E15, also called an E5-573-35AQ

It worked fine when I got it and I added software. I think I bought a
new psu to replace the missing one.

Does this sound like something a very handy person could himself?

(My friend called me to ask if he had left certain software on it. I
don't think so but I was checking. If it's broken it's a good thing I
know now instead of just before I leave on a trip.)

For some laptops, a dead battery means it won't power up, even when
using an A/C power adapter.

Amazing. I would think it wouldn't be hard to at least light up the
charging light.

Sometimes physically removing the battery
will get the adapter to work.

Yes, now I think it would have. I'll remember this for next time,
although I only use it when I travel and then I use it every day, so
maybe I won't have this problem.

The Acer aspire E15 was introduced back in 2014. Maybe your friend
realized the battery was crap, and dumped it on you expecting you to pay
for a new battery (~$25 on Amazon).

Haha. Or you could look at it that he was nice enough to give me what he
might still have kept for a backup, and of course it's my responsibility
to buy the battery.

He actually gave me 3. The oldest he needed back for some work-related software that was on it.

One I have to my 80-year old friend. I wrote about her here. Ten
minutes after I delivered and set it up, someone from out of town
dropped by and of course they wanted to visit, so after a while I left,
and she lost interest after that. Does't even want me to come over, but
when it's too cold to sit outside, I think she'll regain interest. I
don't care if she uses a computer or not, but she was bored or lonely,
and she's not now.

And the 3rd one was this one.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In alt.comp.hardware, on Fri, 27 Aug 2021 02:01:05 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

micky wrote:

My laptop is plugged in but it won't turn on and the LED that shows it's
charging isn't lit, even though it's plugged into a charger and the
charger output is measured just now at about 17vDC

I'm not surprised the battery is dead, I haven't used it for 6 months or
more, but I do remember the charging-led working the last time it
worked.

This seems like an unusual sort of failure. Does it seem very
improbable to you too?

After "charging" for 30 minutes, it still won't turn on and the CD drive
won't open by presssing the button. Is there a reset I don't know
about? Could a failed battery keep the light from going on? Shouldn't
it run off the charger even if the battery is bad? I know the answers
are No, No, and Yes, but I'm grasping at straws.


A friend gave me this Acer aspire E15, also called an E5-573-35AQ

It worked fine when I got it and I added software. I think I bought a
new psu to replace the missing one.

Does this sound like something a very handy person could himself?

(My friend called me to ask if he had left certain software on it. I
don't think so but I was checking. If it's broken it's a good thing I
know now instead of just before I leave on a trip.)

The pack has probably run down, below the charging threshold.

The internal charge management, won't shove any charge into it at
all, if it does not meet the minimum voltage. When it goes below
the minimum voltage, one or more of the cells will reverse bias
and metallic lithium plates out, which is a fire hazard.

Discharge Full +--
Curve | \ <--- Store pack, slightly less than full
| \
Empty + +-- Hibernate -
| \__
TooLate } \______ CanNotCharge

I think I caught it just before cannot charge.

If you run a laptop so low, that the battery display reads "0%",
the pack voltage is still above the minimum by a bit. If you
drain a laptop, hibernate it, then put it in a closet for three
months, this would be bad, as it could drop to CanNotCharge.
That's why, if putting a laptop away for months on end, you
pull the pack (pack will still "self-discharge"), and ensure the
battery display read about 80% before disassembly. That's how mine
is stored right now - pack out (which runs down the CMOS CR2032 of
course, so that's the tradeoff - CMOS cells are cheaper than packs.)

The battery management chip inside the pack, could have written
in it by the computer, that the pack has been to the CanNotCharge
voltage and even if you "lifted" the cells individually, it would
not help. If you lifted the pack, artificially above "Empty",
there is no particular reason for the charger to try to refill it.
It reads the battery management chip over the serial bus on the
multi-contact pack connector, and discovers that status bit.

By reading the serial bus connection to the battery pack, the
log information about pack health can be read by the computer.
Any similar model of machine could read it, and come to the
same conclusion it should not be charged (for safety reasons).

Now, in a past time, lifting the cells might have worked, because
Battery Management did not babysit the user quite as much.

Pulling the pack, the laptop should run off the wall adapter.

I should have tried that. Panicked I guess. Next time I will think of
it.

I don't really need to run on the battery unless I want to take the
thing to another room without turning it off first, and its good in
case of a power failure, although those are rare,

Mine does. Any time you plan on doing a lengthy calc with
a laptop, unplugging the pack avoids attempts to keep
charging the thing, over and over again. Storing the pack
at 80% full makes more sense than keeping a laptop running
constantly with pack in place, and the pack averages 95% to 100%
charge (which is not good for the pack lifetime).

I wish there was a way to leave it plugged in but only going to 80%.
Phones are the same way.

Back in NiCd days, the batteries functioned as a "regulator",
in really cheaply designed product. Pulling the cells from
such units, could "blow" the laptop. But on modern Lithium Cobalt
systems, the regulation and MOSFET features are such, the laptop
is protected from most user-orchestrated catastrophes.

Pull pack, plug adapter to laptop, and test it still works.

No blue charging light is coming on again, until a new pack
is presented to the machine, one above CanNotCharge voltage
and no record in the battery chip, of abuse.

Make sure that the voltage listed on the adapter, is what
appears on the adapter contacts. On a 19V adapter, the output
voltage should be +/- 0.5V, which means 18.5V is valid and
19.5V is valid. Any value between those two, is close enough
to make it work. "Universal adapters" on occasion, are way
off from the desired value, which is why the magic smoke
comes out a month later. While the third-party manufacturer
claims it is "Universal", the laptop manufacturer made some
assumptions too, about how close the custom adapter
provided, has to be to a "correct voltage" value. If
the laptop expects 19.0V in, the adapter is not allowed to be
too sloppy.

IIRC I did buy a replacement, and not factory which was expensive, and
it might only be 17v, but it was hard to hold the probes to the plug.


Thanks, and thanks Vanguard

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)