hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

For a variety of reasons, the Smart TV features on my 43 inch LG
are a royal PITA - I've been using my laptop and connecting to the
TV with a Display Port=HDMI cable. The TV also has USB sockets -
is there any significant difference in quality between HDMI and USB
cables when used for this ? I'm considering buying a longer
cable HDMI=HDMI for my wife to use with her new laptop.
I did try a google search but got lost-in-the-weeds.
Thanks John T.

Ports can do many things.

All I can do in this case, is cite a typical case.

USB is used for USB Mass Storage, and for the connection
of a USB flash drive containing movies or photos. The
TV can play these.

DisplayPort and HDMI are for the carriage of video signals.
The quality is only as good as the source. If the source
upscales content recorded at low-res, then the picture
looks like shit.

If you had Netflix 4K (making up an imaginary service),
then they would try to play movies recorded in 4K and
having a healthy dollop of content. These should play
nice when connecting the computer with the Netflix session,
via cable, to the TV set HDMI or DP inputs.

Other ways to play Netflix, would be if the TV set has
a "Netflix.app" and then, again, a healthy dollop of
4K content is shipped down the Ethernet wire (or Wifi)
as packets, and makes a decent quality picture.

If the Internet service does not have sufficient bandwidth,
Netflix may detect this, and send lower resolution content,
which when upscaled, doesn't look as good.

If the TV set has multiple HDMI connectors, then you
may be able to connect more than one computer, then switch
to a particular TV port and display the signal coming from
it. This allows switching from your output, to the output
the laptop of your wife provides.

The Wikipedia HDMI and DisplayPort articles, describe the
resolution and refresh limits of the various HDMI and
DisplayPort standards versions. The source equipment
and the destination equipment both have limits, and
the common denominator is what they can use to talk to
one another. Not all computers can drive a TV set
at the highest rate desired.

And generally this doesn't make too much difference to the
cables. There can be quality differences between cables,
which affects the maximum length possible while using them.
The standards are not specific enough to recognize the
difference. You might guess that a six foot cable would be
OK, while stringing 30-50 feet of cable, and doing 4Kp60
might result in colored error snow on the screen. The cables
have attenuation, and if the cable is long enough, and the
signal is a high enough frequency, the receiver diff pair
can no longer slice the threshold and extract digital bits
from it.

Summary:

1) Keep cable short. Don't be an idiot. Don't run signal
from attic to basement. Cable (HDMI or DP) will likely be
OK when sitting on the couch and in front of the TV.
Six foot cable should be OK. Fifty foot cable, less so.

2) When using computers for drive, the image is only as
good as the resolution of the content. Upscaling
720x480 content to fill a 4K screen, is not going to be
all that good.

3) The same goes for a movie stored on a USB stick.
4K movie plays at 4K. Low res movie upscales too much
to look nice. If you store a DVD movie on a USB stick,
think about what it's recorded as (720x480 ?).

4) TV sets have internal "Apps", like Roku. In these cases,
the Internet site has to source nice 4K content, ISP
is required to not throttle the packets (so the playback
isn't jerky). Then, it might just work. The signal in this
case, flows over the TV set Ethernet cable or the TV set
Wifi interface to your home router that has Wifi.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 09 Feb 2021 15:07:40 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

For a variety of reasons, the Smart TV features on my 43 inch LG
are a royal PITA - I've been using my laptop and connecting to the
TV with a Display Port=HDMI cable. The TV also has USB sockets -
is there any significant difference in quality between HDMI and USB
cables when used for this ? I'm considering buying a longer
cable HDMI=HDMI for my wife to use with her new laptop.
I did try a google search but got lost-in-the-weeds.
Thanks John T.

Ports can do many things.

All I can do in this case, is cite a typical case.

USB is used for USB Mass Storage, and for the connection
of a USB flash drive containing movies or photos. The
TV can play these.

DisplayPort and HDMI are for the carriage of video signals.
The quality is only as good as the source. If the source
upscales content recorded at low-res, then the picture
looks like shit.

If you had Netflix 4K (making up an imaginary service),
then they would try to play movies recorded in 4K and
having a healthy dollop of content. These should play
nice when connecting the computer with the Netflix session,
via cable, to the TV set HDMI or DP inputs.

Other ways to play Netflix, would be if the TV set has
a "Netflix.app" and then, again, a healthy dollop of
4K content is shipped down the Ethernet wire (or Wifi)
as packets, and makes a decent quality picture.

If the Internet service does not have sufficient bandwidth,
Netflix may detect this, and send lower resolution content,
which when upscaled, doesn't look as good.

If the TV set has multiple HDMI connectors, then you
may be able to connect more than one computer, then switch
to a particular TV port and display the signal coming from
it. This allows switching from your output, to the output
the laptop of your wife provides.

The Wikipedia HDMI and DisplayPort articles, describe the
resolution and refresh limits of the various HDMI and
DisplayPort standards versions. The source equipment
and the destination equipment both have limits, and
the common denominator is what they can use to talk to
one another. Not all computers can drive a TV set
at the highest rate desired.

And generally this doesn't make too much difference to the
cables. There can be quality differences between cables,
which affects the maximum length possible while using them.
The standards are not specific enough to recognize the
difference. You might guess that a six foot cable would be
OK, while stringing 30-50 feet of cable, and doing 4Kp60
might result in colored error snow on the screen. The cables
have attenuation, and if the cable is long enough, and the
signal is a high enough frequency, the receiver diff pair
can no longer slice the threshold and extract digital bits
from it.

Summary:

1) Keep cable short. Don't be an idiot. Don't run signal
from attic to basement. Cable (HDMI or DP) will likely be
OK when sitting on the couch and in front of the TV.
Six foot cable should be OK. Fifty foot cable, less so.

2) When using computers for drive, the image is only as
good as the resolution of the content. Upscaling
720x480 content to fill a 4K screen, is not going to be
all that good.

3) The same goes for a movie stored on a USB stick.
4K movie plays at 4K. Low res movie upscales too much
to look nice. If you store a DVD movie on a USB stick,
think about what it's recorded as (720x480 ?).

4) TV sets have internal "Apps", like Roku. In these cases,
the Internet site has to source nice 4K content, ISP
is required to not throttle the packets (so the playback
isn't jerky). Then, it might just work. The signal in this
case, flows over the TV set Ethernet cable or the TV set
Wifi interface to your home router that has Wifi.

Paul

Thanks for the detailed reply Paul.

< but you lost me in the weeds ! not your fault >

I've done some more reading and discovered that
USB or HDMI are more than just a cable conduit
for digital info .... which was the basis for my query.

So -
- given - a laptop source for audio-video content -
- and - a -
- given smart TV receiving that content -

Q. will the use of a HDMI cable improve the results -
compared to using a USB cable ?

No long distances are involved - 12 feet or so.

John T.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

Thanks for the detailed reply Paul.

< but you lost me in the weeds ! not your fault >

I've done some more reading and discovered that
USB or HDMI are more than just a cable conduit
for digital info .... which was the basis for my query.

So -
- given - a laptop source for audio-video content -
- and - a -
- given smart TV receiving that content -

Q. will the use of a HDMI cable improve the results -
compared to using a USB cable ?

No long distances are involved - 12 feet or so.

John T.

Pick good quality content for the USB stick file collection.

For example, I have a very short clip (150 frames) shot
with a RED camcorder. The content is 8K pixel content.
It's very sharp and would look good on an 85" TV set.

But, that's the only sample I have. I have various
samples of 1280x720, and that's going to be upscaled
if placed on the USB stick and played from the TV
set interface.

The computer output (assuming the computer can do
4Kp30 on HDMI or DP), the cabling isn't the issue.
If the content originated on a DVD, it's going to be
upscaled a lot. For Hollywood content, most people
do not mind the results. Just as we used to watch
movies on B&W TV at the time, and could still follow
what happened to the Maltese Falcon. But some people
are sticklers for resolution effects, and if you
invite them over to the house, they will be
laughing and pointing at the screen (unnecessarily).
If the media content is good, must people are willing
to suspend disbelief and just watch it.

It's all going to work. But with practice, you can
do the best you can to improve the quality of
what is played back.

A DVD player (settop box) might have 1920x1080 (HD)
output. A BD player, probably has 4K output, and uses
an HDMI standards version to match. You can get BD
settop players, as well as a BD drive that fits
inside the computer. And for "least risk", the BD
settop player might be the way to do it. There is
very little knowledge out there, on setting up
movie playback using BD drives inside computers.
I don't own one, and am not aware of any of the
regulars being familiar with the details.

There don't seem to be very many choices for these,
so maybe they're dying out in favor of the Netflix
streaming approach. I was hoping for one of these,
with the intention there would not be endless
fiddling with computer software to see a movie.
There should still be media available, and the
results (with the right title) should be as good
as laserdisc.

https://www.amazon.com/BDP-S6700-Upscaling-Streaming-Blu-Ray-Ethernet/dp/B08171ZGF8

They can't even make a decent web page for it.

https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/blu-ray-disc-players/bdp-s6700/specifications

The review is a joke. It gives some idea what class this
thing is in. You *expect* 4K content to play flawlessly,
as the machine has no impact whatsoever on native 4K
content. It's just a mechanism for reading the packets
off the disc, and does not modify the content.
Only the comments about the upscaler (changes
720x480 DVD output to the picture is 4K), the comments
about that would still be appropriate. And since the
quality of the media on a DVD is "meh", you cannot expect
a mechanical transformation to "add content". It cannot
replace missing pixels. The picture should never be a lot
better than the source, as that implies being able to
replace missing pixels.

https://www.whathifi.com/us/sony/bdp-s6700/review

But I only wanted to show you "what we had in the past".
BD was a source of 4K content. Today, you subscribe to a
4K network service, and then you can use your computer for that,
or use the Roku App inside the TV set. Then, you need to
know a lot about Apps & TV sets, to have strong streaming
capabilities. And I know zero about that topic :-) I'm
just not a TV monkey, and I can't stand Apps. Since the
industry has decided to follow the "greedy streamer" model,
you pay Disney X dollars a month, pay Netflix X dollars a
month, to be able to play their fleet of media. That's
what streaming is all about, it's about milking the cows.
If just one streamer had become dominant, with decent
monthly fees, it might have been different.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

For a variety of reasons, the Smart TV features on my 43 inch LG
are a royal PITA - I've been using my laptop and connecting to the
TV with a Display Port=HDMI cable. The TV also has USB sockets -
is there any significant difference in quality between HDMI and USB
cables when used for this ? I'm considering buying a longer
cable HDMI=HDMI for my wife to use with her new laptop.
I did try a google search but got lost-in-the-weeds.
Thanks John T.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 09/02/2021 15:46, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

For a variety of reasons, the Smart TV features on my 43 inch LG
are a royal PITA - I've been using my laptop and connecting to the
TV with a Display Port=HDMI cable. The TV also has USB sockets -
is there any significant difference in quality between HDMI and USB
cables when used for this ? I'm considering buying a longer
cable HDMI=HDMI for my wife to use with her new laptop.
I did try a google search but got lost-in-the-weeds.
Thanks John T.

You can't show laptop video using the USB port of your TV.
It's not made that way.

A long HDMI cable will work, until repeated plugging or static kills one
of the connectors.

If the LG's Smart features are so bad{*}, why not invest $100 in a small networked PC, and leave it plugged in? There are some very small
offerings that can easily hang out the back.

{*} - Out of interest, what are they?

--
Adrian C

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 12:59:20 +0000, Adrian Caspersz
<email@here.invalid> wrote:

On 09/02/2021 15:46, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

For a variety of reasons, the Smart TV features on my 43 inch LG
are a royal PITA - I've been using my laptop and connecting to the
TV with a Display Port=HDMI cable. The TV also has USB sockets -
is there any significant difference in quality between HDMI and USB
cables when used for this ? I'm considering buying a longer
cable HDMI=HDMI for my wife to use with her new laptop.
I did try a google search but got lost-in-the-weeds.
Thanks John T.

You can't show laptop video using the USB port of your TV.
It's not made that way.

A long HDMI cable will work, until repeated plugging or static kills one
of the connectors.

If the LG's Smart features are so bad{*}, why not invest $100 in a small >networked PC, and leave it plugged in? There are some very small
offerings that can easily hang out the back.

{*} - Out of interest, what are they?

The Intel NUC comes with a bracket to mount on a tv.


KenW

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 12:59:20 +0000, Adrian Caspersz
<email@here.invalid> wrote:

On 09/02/2021 15:46, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

For a variety of reasons, the Smart TV features on my 43 inch LG
are a royal PITA - I've been using my laptop and connecting to the
TV with a Display Port=HDMI cable. The TV also has USB sockets -
is there any significant difference in quality between HDMI and USB
cables when used for this ? I'm considering buying a longer
cable HDMI=HDMI for my wife to use with her new laptop.
I did try a google search but got lost-in-the-weeds.
Thanks John T.

You can't show laptop video using the USB port of your TV.
It's not made that way.

A long HDMI cable will work, until repeated plugging or static kills one
of the connectors.

If the LG's Smart features are so bad{*}, why not invest $100 in a small >networked PC, and leave it plugged in? There are some very small
offerings that can easily hang out the back.

{*} - Out of interest, what are they?

Thanks for the reply - I'll have to try the laptop = USB
connection now - to prove that you're right !
The LG TV is less than 5 years old but was a PITA even
when new - browser issues ; wireless keyboard issues ;
I bought a "TV box" and it was a slight improvement but
I still prefer the more familar laptop.
I have considered buying a SFF refurb desktop computer
and dedicating it to the TV ..

https://eco-techrecycling.com/desktops

John T.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/02/2021 13:58, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

If the LG's Smart features are so bad{*}, why not invest $100 in a small
networked PC, and leave it plugged in? There are some very small
offerings that can easily hang out the back.

{*} - Out of interest, what are they?

Thanks for the reply - I'll have to try the laptop = USB
connection now - to prove that you're right !

No need. Trust me. HDMI is what you want.

The LG TV is less than 5 years old but was a PITA even
when new - browser issues ; wireless keyboard issues ;

OK agreed, I've probably got the same generation LG TV.

All it is good for is showing YouTube, anything else is from the dark ages.

I bought a "TV box" and it was a slight improvement but
I still prefer the more familar laptop.
I have considered buying a SFF refurb desktop computer
and dedicating it to the TV ..

Intel NUC (and clones) is a good idea, or these small $80 things (with a
cheap displayport to HDMI adaptor)

Lenovo Thinkcentre M72e TD Intel Core i3-3220T @ 2.80GHz 4GB RAM 256GB SSD

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thinkcentre-M72e-TD-Intel-Core-i3-3220T-2-80GHz-4GB-RA

Look on youtube to see how folks use them.



--
Adrian C

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/02/2021 14:38, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 11/02/2021 13:58, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

Intel NUC (and clones) is a good idea, or these small $80 things (with a cheap displayport to HDMI adaptor)

 Lenovo Thinkcentre M72e TD Intel Core i3-3220T @ 2.80GHz 4GB RAM 256GB
SSD

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thinkcentre-M72e-TD-Intel-Core-i3-3220T-2-80GHz-4GB-RA

Sorry, That link didn't work - try
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402644845750


A heads up for anyone else lurking.

These Lenovo M72e Tiny PC's are brilliant low electrical power computers
that can be stuffed with 16GB of memory, so great for virtualisation /
docker and a media PC. Runs modern Windows OS fine and ye can do CPU
upgrades to Xeon.

Low-Power Windows Server 2019 Domain Controller: Lenovo M72e Tiny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6pV-cvyvzs

I wise they were just a bit cheaper this side of the Pond (UK)

--
Adrian C

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:38:01 +0000, Adrian Caspersz
<email@here.invalid> wrote:

On 11/02/2021 13:58, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

If the LG's Smart features are so bad{*}, why not invest $100 in a small >>> networked PC, and leave it plugged in? There are some very small
offerings that can easily hang out the back.

{*} - Out of interest, what are they?

Thanks for the reply - I'll have to try the laptop = USB
connection now - to prove that you're right !

No need. Trust me. HDMI is what you want.

The LG TV is less than 5 years old but was a PITA even
when new - browser issues ; wireless keyboard issues ;

OK agreed, I've probably got the same generation LG TV.

All it is good for is showing YouTube, anything else is from the dark ages.

I bought a "TV box" and it was a slight improvement but
I still prefer the more familar laptop.
I have considered buying a SFF refurb desktop computer
and dedicating it to the TV ..

Intel NUC (and clones) is a good idea, or these small $80 things (with a >cheap displayport to HDMI adaptor)

Lenovo Thinkcentre M72e TD Intel Core i3-3220T @ 2.80GHz 4GB RAM 256GB SSD

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thinkcentre-M72e-TD-Intel-Core-i3-3220T-2-80GHz-4GB-RA

Look on youtube to see how folks use them.

Thanks. I had to look on Wiki to see what a NUC was ..

Then I checked the local online classified ads - found one
with the latest HoneyBee operating system :

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-home-outdoor-other/stratford-on/honey-bee-nucs/1549192259

John T.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Thanks. I had to look on Wiki to see what a NUC was ..

Then I checked the local online classified ads - found one
with the latest HoneyBee operating system :

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-home-outdoor-other/stratford-on/honey-bee-nucs/1549192259

John T.

NUC > Intel Next Unit of Computing. Better known as mini pc
Not cheap !


KenW

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 2:59:24 PM UTC, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:38:01 +0000, Adrian Caspersz
<em...@here.invalid> wrote:

On 11/02/2021 13:58, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

If the LG's Smart features are so bad{*}, why not invest $100 in a small >>> networked PC, and leave it plugged in? There are some very small
offerings that can easily hang out the back.

{*} - Out of interest, what are they?

Thanks for the reply - I'll have to try the laptop = USB
connection now - to prove that you're right !

No need. Trust me. HDMI is what you want.

The LG TV is less than 5 years old but was a PITA even
when new - browser issues ; wireless keyboard issues ;

OK agreed, I've probably got the same generation LG TV.

All it is good for is showing YouTube, anything else is from the dark ages.

I bought a "TV box" and it was a slight improvement but
I still prefer the more familar laptop.
I have considered buying a SFF refurb desktop computer
and dedicating it to the TV ..

Intel NUC (and clones) is a good idea, or these small $80 things (with a >cheap displayport to HDMI adaptor)

Lenovo Thinkcentre M72e TD Intel Core i3-3220T @ 2.80GHz 4GB RAM 256GB SSD

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thinkcentre-M72e-TD-Intel-Core-i3-3220T-2-80GHz-4GB-RA

Look on youtube to see how folks use them.

Thanks. I had to look on Wiki to see what a NUC was ..

Then I checked the local online classified ads - found one
with the latest HoneyBee operating system :

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-home-outdoor-other/stratford-on/honey-bee-nucs/1549192259

John T.

Someone might need this Lenovo 765803U Laptop review & specs via https://iteegeek.com/laptops/lenovo-z360-specs-lenovo-z360-review/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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