On 8/27/2020 7:13 AM, bad sector wrote:

On 2020-08-27 00:37, s wrote:

My nephew is 14 and living in another state who wants to build his own
computer.

I sent following YouTube videos for him to watch and learn how to do it.


Build a PC - Step-by-step
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX0fOUYd8Q

Beginners Guide - Build a PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmcD8v3vR4

How To Build a $500 Gaming PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyhn6seoow

The idea is to assemble a basic PC using which he can do homework,
learn new topics etc.

Would the following parts be compatible to buy, assemble?

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/

I like that case, made me one ten years ago that draws filtered air in
via the raised bottom and 3 4" silent fans with all other fans reversed
if required. Has been working very well with cpu never above 47c.  I
have another idea now but before that I might just get me one of those
cases from amazon!

Would the single fan in this https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/
be enough for cooling?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2020-08-29 19:28, s wrote:

On 8/27/2020 7:13 AM, bad sector wrote:

On 2020-08-27 00:37, s wrote:

My nephew is 14 and living in another state who wants to build his
own computer.

I sent following YouTube videos for him to watch and learn how to do it. >>>

Build a PC - Step-by-step
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX0fOUYd8Q

Beginners Guide - Build a PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmcD8v3vR4

How To Build a $500 Gaming PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyhn6seoow

The idea is to assemble a basic PC using which he can do homework,
learn new topics etc.

Would the following parts be compatible to buy, assemble?

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/

I like that case, made me one ten years ago that draws filtered air in
via the raised bottom and 3 4" silent fans with all other fans
reversed if required. Has been working very well with cpu never above
47c.  I have another idea now but before that I might just get me one
of those cases from amazon!

Would the single fan in this https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/
be enough for cooling?

Cooling always depends on ambient conditions and cpu and cards and such.
The fact that it's a best seller on amazon would I think speak well for
it under average or better conditions, power supplies, CPU's, some video
cards and drive racks have their own fans in addition. I would have no
problem ordering it. For a beginner who isn't going to jump right into
hacking and cannibalising hardware it's plenty good enough :)

--
War, is the school of peace

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 8/27/2020 9:58 AM, Paul wrote:

s wrote:

My nephew is 14 and living in another state who wants to build his own
computer.

I sent following YouTube videos for him to watch and learn how to do it.


Build a PC - Step-by-step
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX0fOUYd8Q

Beginners Guide - Build a PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmcD8v3vR4

How To Build a $500 Gaming PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyhn6seoow

The idea is to assemble a basic PC using which he can do homework,
learn new topics etc.

Would the following parts be compatible to buy, assemble?

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/


https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Certified-Continuous-cooling-PS-SPD-0500NPCWUS-W/dp/B014W3EM2W/


https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-BarraCuda-Internal-Drive-3-5-Inch/dp/B07D99KFPK/


https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-3600-12-Thread-Processor/dp/B07STGGQ18/

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-PC4-28800-Desktop-Memory/dp/B07RM39V5F/


https://www.amazon.com/XFX-Radeon-1386MHz-Graphics-RX-580P8DFD6/dp/B06Y66K3XD/


https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-TUF-X570-Plus-Motherboard-Lighting/dp/B07SXF8GY3/


I would appreciate any suggestions

Thanks

I agree with John McGaw. Find a tiny SSD for a boot drive.
Backups or other materials (call this secondary storage) should
go on a spinner.

If a person has no other desktop computers, they don't really
have a lot of secondary storage. And the owner should develop
good backup habits, to handle the bugs that the 2020 "rolling release"
world brings with it. You can't rely on the OS settings to be
doing anything right (the settings can change on their own),
so it is up to you to apply whip and chair to maintain some
level of control of your three-ring circus.

If configured right, the backup drive can also be set up to
be a boot drive (for emergency boot). For situations where the
computer stopped booting on the SSD ("Windows Update" indigestion).

For Windows 10, the SSD could be as small as 45GB and you
could get by with that. You don't have to spend a lot of
money on it if you don't want to. At the 128GB level,
some SSD drives do that with a single flash chip inside.

*******

Q300L user manual.

http://us.coolermaster.com/xresserver01-DLFILE-en1802270001d673-F19011400073262.html

Looks like it has room to install one spinning drive (on a mounting plate), plus multiple SSD drives. It almost looks like the HDD mount is on the
back of the tray, whereas SSD drives are on the back and the front
of the tray. HDDs are "stable on six axis", the compass points,
so can be mounted that way. I slide drives in and out of the computer
all day long, so such an arrangement (bolting to tray) would make me
crazy :-)

If you use the machine for any sort of Technician Machine (like,
backing up a friends hard drive to your hard drive), having
two trays for drives would be a minimum. Buying external enclosures
is an unnecessary expense. But, I suppose this borders on a
"life style issue" as much as anything else. The case "meets a
minimum requirement".

Generally, I find with computer cases, that you can easily enter
from one side, but if maintenance involves visiting the front
(via glass door) or the back (rear mounted items like HDD),
you can do that if the PC is sitting on a table, but other
seating arrangements for the PC make this more difficult.
The absolute worst case you could be buying, would be a scissor case,
where it has a hinge on the bottom and the two halves fold open.
Pure misery.

The PSU is on the bottom of the computer case. The very last row of
pictures in the "manual", shows the PSU is mounted upside-down, which
means the intake fan is facing upwards. This is only a problem in the following scenario.

The case is porous on top. If you rest a Coke on the top of the machine,
and you happen to spill the Coke, Coke liquid is now entering the PC.
It pours downwards. If finds the (slowly spinning) PSU intake fan. Coke
is splattered around line voltage components in the PSU.

One poster, when I described the potential problems caused by
"porous on top PCs", mentioned, "yeah, when I spilled some water
in there, the PSU made a sizzling sound". And that would be for
a PSU mounted the normal way, at the top of the PC, with
fewer ways for liquid to get inside! It's for this reason, that
either the individual has great discipline (never rests a drink
on the PC), or, select a case where fluids don't find a way to do that.
This is why all my PCs here have flat metal tops, for "shedding
behavior". Yes, I know that mounting a radiator under the top
of a PC is all the rage now, so I understand why they're porous
on top.

Fabrics which collect dust, need to be cleaned every three months
or so. At least in this case, the condition of the fabric material
is easy to check visually. Many cases hide the dust filter behind
a door, and you have to be Houdini to get it out and clean it.
(That's because the dust filter comes out the bottom of the PC
via a slot down there.)

There is no place in the PC for an optical drive, no way to play
a CD someone brings over. (More expense buying a USB slim to
retrofit.) Many people don't care about this. Fine.

There's nothing wrong with the case as such, and the above is a "nuisance-factor analysis".

*******
PSU - check that cable length is sufficiently long, to reach from
      the PSU bay, to the various electrical loads. The back mounted
      HDD plate, might need an extension cable. Since the PSU is
      upside-down, the loom will be exiting close to the mobo tray
      and back surface of the PC. Not a problem, just a comment.

      The PSU could charge an iPad, if the PC is "soft-off" and
      not S3 Sleep (usual +5VSB limits). The +5V is weaker than I
      would like, but then there's no large collection of drive bays
      either, to load it down. I like PSUs to be ready for anything,
      and 3.3V 20A and 5V 20A are the minimum I use here. There is also
      a combined power limit on the two rails, and if that was 100W
      in a crappy example, then really only one rail could be fully
      loaded. On modern PCs, I don't expect the chipset load or drive
      loads, to make generous ratings there necessary any more.
      Now that the PSU has all-shrouded cables and all the wires
      are black in color... it's pretty hard for me to be measuring
      these loads with my clamp-on DC ammeter to check them. All-black
      wire is an abomination.

      The PSU has two PCIe connectors, so that part is as ready
      as you would like. All the rest of the determinations, depend
      on what components you add to the PC.

*******

https://outervision.com/b/PFGmMG

One problem with that power calculator, is it doesn't give a
breakdown of individual cards. The RX 580 could be 185W or 12V 15.5A.
The CPU, it would all depend on whether it's overclocked, or
whether the TDP is correct. (On Intel processors, the power
shoots above TDP by a fair bit if AVX is being used.) That
suggests they're allocating 12V @ 10A for the CPU (subtract
hard drive currents from the calc). Whereas Newegg lists
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 as 65W TDP. The outervision.com calc could
be a little bit on the high side on the +12V. It might be 24 or
25 amps or so.

Load Wattage: 439 W            +3.3V     +5V     +12V
                                9.5 A    11.3 A  29.3 A
                                <--- 88 W --->   351 W

I monitor my PC with a Kill-O-Watt meter, so I have
a good idea how close to the max power it runs. It
managed to draw 250W the other day, running Prime95 and
some AVX code in there, and the video card would add
180W if I were to run Furmark. Since my VCore should
be overheating at 250W, I didn't leave that running
for too long :-) I think the nephews build will be
substantially lower and well behaved. You have to go
out of your way, to attempt to tip over this setup.

*******

Motherboard - X570 is fan cooled, with what could be a
              40mm custom fan or similar. Tail of video card
              runs across the top, so the cooling design
              cannot afford to be too tall.

              If the fan fails... the young builder is
              going to be learning a thing or two about
              retrofitting a heatpipe cooler (and the one
              I have in mind is likely not in production now).
              On a fan failure, this might be beyond my
              pay scale to fix (no materials).

              If it used a standard 40mm square or 60mm square
              fan, then I'd have no argument with the design.
              As you can swap the square ones.

*******

   Paul

Thanks Paul,

Will the fan in https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/
be enough or are more fans needed?

I appreciate the detailed response and advice.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 8/28/2020 10:40 PM, Bennett Price wrote:

On 8/28/2020 4:57 AM, bad sector wrote:

On 2020-08-27 00:37, s wrote:

My nephew is 14 and living in another state who wants to build his
own computer.

I sent following YouTube videos for him to watch and learn how to do it. >>>

Build a PC - Step-by-step
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX0fOUYd8Q

Beginners Guide - Build a PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmcD8v3vR4

How To Build a $500 Gaming PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyhn6seoow

The idea is to assemble a basic PC using which he can do homework,
learn new topics etc.

Would the following parts be compatible to buy, assemble?

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/


https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Certified-Continuous-cooling-PS-SPD-0500NPCWUS-W/dp/B014W3EM2W/


https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-BarraCuda-Internal-Drive-3-5-Inch/dp/B07D99KFPK/


https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-3600-12-Thread-Processor/dp/B07STGGQ18/ >>>
https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-PC4-28800-Desktop-Memory/dp/B07RM39V5F/


https://www.amazon.com/XFX-Radeon-1386MHz-Graphics-RX-580P8DFD6/dp/B06Y66K3XD/


https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-TUF-X570-Plus-Motherboard-Lighting/dp/B07SXF8GY3/


I would appreciate any suggestions

Thanks

Very good AND nice idea BTW. I just sold a tractor to a 35-40 year old
dad who bought it for his also 14 year old son who wants to do
potatoes. I really thought that I would never again see this sort of
thing in my lifetime anymore, it was one of my happiest days in a
while and not because I got my hands on money.

You would be amazed how fast youngsters can soak things up, I would at
least also mention to him that just as you can build a box so you can
also build the OS or OS'es that will run it, Linux. Maybe not right
off the bat, but a seed will be planted (pun intended).

Let me Suggest your nephew take a look at:
 https://www.tomshardware.com/topics/pc-builds
both for how-to and suggestions for components at various price points.

Thanks, this is very helpful!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 8/29/2020 6:13 PM, bad sector wrote:

On 2020-08-29 19:28, s wrote:

On 8/27/2020 7:13 AM, bad sector wrote:

On 2020-08-27 00:37, s wrote:

My nephew is 14 and living in another state who wants to build his
own computer.

I sent following YouTube videos for him to watch and learn how to do
it.


Build a PC - Step-by-step
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX0fOUYd8Q

Beginners Guide - Build a PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmcD8v3vR4

How To Build a $500 Gaming PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyhn6seoow

The idea is to assemble a basic PC using which he can do homework,
learn new topics etc.

Would the following parts be compatible to buy, assemble?

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/

I like that case, made me one ten years ago that draws filtered air
in via the raised bottom and 3 4" silent fans with all other fans
reversed if required. Has been working very well with cpu never above
47c.  I have another idea now but before that I might just get me one
of those cases from amazon!

Would the single fan in this
https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/
be enough for cooling?

Cooling always depends on ambient conditions and cpu and cards and such.
The fact that it's a best seller on amazon would I think speak well for
it under average or better conditions, power supplies, CPU's, some video cards and drive racks have their own fans in addition. I would have no problem ordering it. For a beginner who isn't going to jump right into hacking and cannibalising hardware it's plenty good enough :)

Thank you! I appreciate the prompt clarification.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 8/29/2020 7:18 PM, s wrote:

On 8/27/2020 5:01 AM, John McGaw wrote:

On 8/27/2020 2:29 AM, Anssi Saari wrote:

s <s@s.com> writes:

The idea is to assemble a basic PC using which he can do homework,
learn new topics etc.

Would the following parts be compatible to buy, assemble?

I don't see any issues but I didn't check it closely. One thing is, I'd
definitely go with an SSD instead of a hard drive. Or one of each but
that might be confusing for a first build.

I was going to give the same suggestion. In 2020 a new build with a
spinning primary drive would be like going back to 2016. I have no
objection to spinners in a secondary data-only role but never for the
system disk in a modern system. Although I don't find it best a
SATA-connected SSD rather than an M.2 type might be easier to understand
for a beginner.

Thanks, I will advise him to use a M.2 SSD.

Actually, my suggestion was than a standard SATA interface would be easier
to understand. There is a matter with an M.2 SSD which requires a driver to
be loaded during the OS installation process -- without the required driver
the M.2 is effectively unavailable -- and some find that to be tricky. Up
to you of course. The M.2 will give much better performance but you should study up on how to provide the requisite driver during the OS install so
there are no slip ups.

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 8/27/2020 12:29 AM, Anssi Saari wrote:

s <s@s.com> writes:

The idea is to assemble a basic PC using which he can do homework,
learn new topics etc.

Would the following parts be compatible to buy, assemble?

I don't see any issues but I didn't check it closely. One thing is, I'd definitely go with an SSD instead of a hard drive. Or one of each but
that might be confusing for a first build.

Thanks, I will advise him to use a SSD.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

s wrote:

On 8/29/2020 6:13 PM, bad sector wrote:

On 2020-08-29 19:28, s wrote:

On 8/27/2020 7:13 AM, bad sector wrote:

On 2020-08-27 00:37, s wrote:

My nephew is 14 and living in another state who wants to build his
own computer.

I sent following YouTube videos for him to watch and learn how to
do it.


Build a PC - Step-by-step
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX0fOUYd8Q

Beginners Guide - Build a PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmcD8v3vR4

How To Build a $500 Gaming PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyhn6seoow

The idea is to assemble a basic PC using which he can do homework,
learn new topics etc.

Would the following parts be compatible to buy, assemble?

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/

I like that case, made me one ten years ago that draws filtered air
in via the raised bottom and 3 4" silent fans with all other fans
reversed if required. Has been working very well with cpu never
above 47c. I have another idea now but before that I might just get
me one of those cases from amazon!

Would the single fan in this
https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/
be enough for cooling?

Cooling always depends on ambient conditions and cpu and cards and
such. The fact that it's a best seller on amazon would I think speak
well for it under average or better conditions, power supplies, CPU's,
some video cards and drive racks have their own fans in addition. I
would have no problem ordering it. For a beginner who isn't going to
jump right into hacking and cannibalising hardware it's plenty good
enough :)

Thank you! I appreciate the prompt clarification.

You use the system cooling equation for that.

By now, you might be saying, "how can I figure out what fan to
use for the case ?". Well, there is an equation for that too.
Now, for this one, you need to know all the thermal loads inside
the computer case. We have the 125W processor, say a 100W
video card, two 12W hard drives, say a total of 250W. Our definition
of a well cooled case, is 7C, which is equal to 12.6 Fahrenheit degrees.
Plugging in the values.

CFM = 3.16 * Watts / Delta_T_degrees_F

CFM = 3.16 * 250W / 12.6F = 62.7 cubic feet per minute.

It would take two rear fans of 35CFM each, to give 70CFM to cool
the air inside the case to "only" a 7C rise above ambient.

If room temp is 20C, then case air is 27C under those assumptions.

You're trying to keep the hard drive temperature below 60C,
if you need a metric. (The air can't be 60C! If the air was
40C, maybe the disk is 60C.) And you don't want the CPU getting
so hot, that it throttles because you didn't have a good
enough fan on the back. Using a utility like Speedfan (almico.com),
you can monitor various temperatures and see how close to an
ideal situation you're in.

For most people, a realistic value for system power is the
hard part. If the fan were to be "temperature controlled",
it could "rail" when the computer is gaming, and "loaf"
when the machine is idle. I like to run mine at a fixed
speed, so that if a fan is failing and slowing down, I
can notice the change with my ear. But others like
their temperature-controlled fans.

My newest machine is probably off the ideal value by
around half. So my case cooling is only about 50% of
what it should be. But the 110CFM fan that used to be
in the computer case, was causing "hearing loss", so
it had to go :-)

And I know what the power usage on the Test Machine is,
because it has a Kill-O-Watt meter connected. It draws
180W when all cores are loaded. If the video card cuts in,
it might hit 340W. If AVX is used, that's another increment.
I try not to run it too long with synthetic tests on
it (with the low capacity fan at least). I don't have
a problem running it all day at 180W though (compressing
an entire disk drive). I know the VCore regulator doesn't
have a big enough heatsink on it, which is the limitation
on my system (don't want to damage it). What's funny is,
the computer I'm typing on, has a metric acre of copper
to cool VCore, and it doesn't even get luke warm. The
computer where they knew the power would be 4X higher, they
put this shitty little cooler on it (probably just
aluminum too, not a copper one).

When buying the motherboard, I neglected to note just how
poor that cooler was. But I figured it out, the day I
"built up" the computer on the kitchen table, without fitting
it into the computer case. I run them first, without a computer
case, then I "run a finger over the hot stuff", just
to spot issues. And that's when I burned my finger on
VCore :-/ I had to fit a small fan, just for Vcore.

The clever guys at some of the review sites, they use a
FLIR infrared camera to spot build issues. Typically
the camera overlays a low-res infrared image on top
of a slight-higher res visible image, and from that,
you can spot issues with precision. For example, when
someone spotted an eight-pin DIP running at 100C, that
was dead easy with an IR camera. I would have missed
that, using my finger, as I would never suspect such
a small chip of running that hot. I'd hate for an
engineer to have done that on purpose.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2020-08-29 22:49, Paul wrote:

s wrote:

On 8/29/2020 6:13 PM, bad sector wrote:

On 2020-08-29 19:28, s wrote:

On 8/27/2020 7:13 AM, bad sector wrote:

On 2020-08-27 00:37, s wrote:

My nephew is 14 and living in another state who wants to build his >>>>>> own computer.

I sent following YouTube videos for him to watch and learn how to
do it.


Build a PC - Step-by-step
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX0fOUYd8Q

Beginners Guide - Build a PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmcD8v3vR4

How To Build a $500 Gaming PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyhn6seoow

The idea is to assemble a basic PC using which he can do homework, >>>>>> learn new topics etc.

Would the following parts be compatible to buy, assemble?

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/

I like that case, made me one ten years ago that draws filtered air
in via the raised bottom and 3 4" silent fans with all other fans
reversed if required. Has been working very well with cpu never
above 47c.  I have another idea now but before that I might just
get me one of those cases from amazon!

Would the single fan in this
https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/
be enough for cooling?

Cooling always depends on ambient conditions and cpu and cards and
such. The fact that it's a best seller on amazon would I think speak
well for it under average or better conditions, power supplies,
CPU's, some video cards and drive racks have their own fans in
addition. I would have no problem ordering it. For a beginner who
isn't going to jump right into hacking and cannibalising hardware
it's plenty good enough :)

Thank you! I appreciate the prompt clarification.

You use the system cooling equation for that.

   By now, you might be saying, "how can I figure out what fan to
   use for the case ?". Well, there is an equation for that too.
   Now, for this one, you need to know all the thermal loads inside
   the computer case. We have the 125W processor, say a 100W
   video card, two 12W hard drives, say a total of 250W. Our definition
   of a well cooled case, is 7C, which is equal to 12.6 Fahrenheit degrees.
   Plugging in the values.

   CFM = 3.16 * Watts / Delta_T_degrees_F

   CFM = 3.16 * 250W / 12.6F = 62.7 cubic feet per minute.

Interesting, I never saw that before.

I have three relatively silent 4" fans sucking air into the box through
the filtered bottom, then the power unit and disk racks boosting flow to
the outside through them with their own fan and only the cpu fan doing
little else than a bit of purely internal flow increase. My study hardly
ever gets above 25c, 95% of the time 20c, and with that cpu or disks
never went above 47c. I have seen a simplified version of the above
formula where the wattage is 1/2 the power-supply capacity.

Agree about the noise, it's my next target, want my next box not just
low-noise but TOTALLY silent :)

It would take two rear fans of 35CFM each, to give 70CFM to cool
the air inside the case to "only" a 7C rise above ambient.

If room temp is 20C, then case air is 27C under those assumptions.

You're trying to keep the hard drive temperature below 60C,
if you need a metric. (The air can't be 60C! If the air was
40C, maybe the disk is 60C.) And you don't want the CPU getting
so hot, that it throttles because you didn't have a good
enough fan on the back. Using a utility like Speedfan (almico.com),
you can monitor various temperatures and see how close to an
ideal situation you're in.

For most people, a realistic value for system power is the
hard part. If the fan were to be "temperature controlled",
it could "rail" when the computer is gaming, and "loaf"
when the machine is idle. I like to run mine at a fixed
speed, so that if a fan is failing and slowing down, I
can notice the change with my ear. But others like
their temperature-controlled fans.

My newest machine is probably off the ideal value by
around half. So my case cooling is only about 50% of
what it should be. But the 110CFM fan that used to be
in the computer case, was causing "hearing loss", so
it had to go :-)

And I know what the power usage on the Test Machine is,
because it has a Kill-O-Watt meter connected. It draws
180W when all cores are loaded. If the video card cuts in,
it might hit 340W. If AVX is used, that's another increment.
I try not to run it too long with synthetic tests on
it (with the low capacity fan at least). I don't have
a problem running it all day at 180W though (compressing
an entire disk drive). I know the VCore regulator doesn't
have a big enough heatsink on it, which is the limitation
on my system (don't want to damage it). What's funny is,
the computer I'm typing on, has a metric acre of copper
to cool VCore, and it doesn't even get luke warm. The
computer where they knew the power would be 4X higher, they
put this shitty little cooler on it (probably just
aluminum too, not a copper one).

When buying the motherboard, I neglected to note just how
poor that cooler was. But I figured it out, the day I
"built up" the computer on the kitchen table, without fitting
it into the computer case. I run them first, without a computer
case, then I "run a finger over the hot stuff", just
to spot issues. And that's when I burned my finger on
VCore :-/ I had to fit a small fan, just for Vcore.

hehehehe, the last time I did THAT was with a 486 and it literally
burned my finger because it WAS actually cooking itself to death, just
like an ironing plate!

The clever guys at some of the review sites, they use a
FLIR infrared camera to spot build issues. Typically
the camera overlays a low-res infrared image on top
of a slight-higher res visible image, and from that,
you can spot issues with precision. For example, when
someone spotted an eight-pin DIP running at 100C, that
was dead easy with an IR camera. I would have missed
that, using my finger, as I would never suspect such
a small chip of running that hot. I'd hate for an
engineer to have done that on purpose.

   Paul

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s wrote:

Thanks Paul,

Will the fan in https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/
be enough or are more fans needed?

I appreciate the detailed response and advice.

See other new post, which has mention of the equation to use.

Paul

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s wrote on 8/29/2020 8:48 PM:

On 8/28/2020 10:40 PM, Bennett Price wrote:

On 8/28/2020 4:57 AM, bad sector wrote:

On 2020-08-27 00:37, s wrote:

My nephew is 14 and living in another state who wants to build his
own computer.

I sent following YouTube videos for him to watch and learn how to do it. >>>>

Build a PC - Step-by-step
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX0fOUYd8Q

Beginners Guide - Build a PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmcD8v3vR4

How To Build a $500 Gaming PC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyhn6seoow

The idea is to assemble a basic PC using which he can do homework,
learn new topics etc.

Would the following parts be compatible to buy, assemble?

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Adjustable-Ventilated/dp/B0785GRMPG/


https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Certified-Continuous-cooling-PS-SPD-0500NPCWUS-W/dp/B014W3EM2W/


https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-BarraCuda-Internal-Drive-3-5-Inch/dp/B07D99KFPK/


https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-3600-12-Thread-Processor/dp/B07STGGQ18/ >>>>
https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-PC4-28800-Desktop-Memory/dp/B07RM39V5F/


https://www.amazon.com/XFX-Radeon-1386MHz-Graphics-RX-580P8DFD6/dp/B06Y66K3XD/


https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-TUF-X570-Plus-Motherboard-Lighting/dp/B07SXF8GY3/


I would appreciate any suggestions

Thanks

Very good AND nice idea BTW. I just sold a tractor to a 35-40 year old
dad who bought it for his also 14 year old son who wants to do
potatoes. I really thought that I would never again see this sort of
thing in my lifetime anymore, it was one of my happiest days in a
while and not because I got my hands on money.

You would be amazed how fast youngsters can soak things up, I would at
least also mention to him that just as you can build a box so you can
also build the OS or OS'es that will run it, Linux. Maybe not right
off the bat, but a seed will be planted (pun intended).

Let me Suggest your nephew take a look at:
 https://www.tomshardware.com/topics/pc-builds
both for how-to and suggestions for components at various price points.

Thanks, this is very helpful!

You're welcome. :-)

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On 27/08/2020 05:37, s wrote:

My nephew is 14 and living in another state who wants to build his own computer.

I sent following YouTube videos for him to watch and learn how to do it.

My first PC was an office hand-me-down.

MFM was one card, serial another. 512k of memory.

Upgrades were junk parts from secondhand shops.

Learnt coding rather than killing aliens

Modern PC's are like Lego, but once assembled it's assembled.

Where's the fun in that?


Yeah, buy as a consumer and play IT tech - but take the big picture and
go beyond just installing Windows 10 and zapping Aliens. I'd suggest he
also sets up a second rig (ex-cooporate desktop) and gets some network configuration interest like containers, virtualisation, servers,
security, data forensics, small board computers, phone firmware dev etc...

Or something creative - art, electronics, video, music.
Or something supportive - learn the skills how to help others, study an
IT course, etc ...

Otherwise you may as well have bought him a PlayStation, to watch his educational chances and future employment opportunities diminish (unless post-covid, attacking aliens becomes our next doom worry)

--
Adrian C

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