• Home-built hardware

    From Rick C. Hodgin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 26 08:58:34 2018
    Anybody out there want to discuss home-built hardware?

    --
    Rick C. Hodgin

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Rick C. Hodgin on Thu Jul 26 09:02:53 2018
    Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
    Anybody out there want to discuss home-built hardware?

    Is there something worth building ?

    Paul

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  • From Rick C. Hodgin@21:1/5 to Paul on Thu Jul 26 09:16:14 2018
    On 7/26/2018 9:02 AM, Paul wrote:
    Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
    Anybody out there want to discuss home-built hardware?
    Is there something worth building ?

    I'm here today because I'm working on creating an old IBM Model-F
    style keyboard, but with more keys. It uses capacitive touch as the
    Model-F keyboards did (no mechanical switch), and I've designed a
    switch that's quieter:

    Here's a thread on deskthority about it: https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/ibm-model-f-like-keyboard-designs-t16169-240.html#p419244

    And here's the base design for an approximate 300-key monster: http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_d3__illuminator.png

    There are smaller designs as well http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_d2__publisher.png

    http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_d1__beacon.png

    And much smaller versions: http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_g3__trilight.png

    http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_g2__purelight.png

    http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_g1__ultralight.png

    The switch I have gives the buckling spring feel, but is not nearly
    as "clicky."

    I just like to talk about such things and in my life I have no people
    who are near who like to talk about design aspects. Even my family,
    who is supportive, doesn't like to talk about the design.

    --
    Rick C. Hodgin

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Rick C. Hodgin on Thu Jul 26 10:40:34 2018
    Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
    On 7/26/2018 9:02 AM, Paul wrote:
    Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
    Anybody out there want to discuss home-built hardware?
    Is there something worth building ?

    I'm here today because I'm working on creating an old IBM Model-F
    style keyboard, but with more keys. It uses capacitive touch as the
    Model-F keyboards did (no mechanical switch), and I've designed a
    switch that's quieter:

    Here's a thread on deskthority about it: https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/ibm-model-f-like-keyboard-designs-t16169-240.html#p419244


    And here's the base design for an approximate 300-key monster: http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_d3__illuminator.png


    There are smaller designs as well http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_d2__publisher.png


    http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_d1__beacon.png


    And much smaller versions: http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_g3__trilight.png


    http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_g2__purelight.png


    http://www.libsf.org:8990/projects/LIB/repos/libsf/browse/ukm/keyboard/graphics/key_assignments_model_g1__ultralight.png


    The switch I have gives the buckling spring feel, but is not nearly
    as "clicky."

    I just like to talk about such things and in my life I have no people
    who are near who like to talk about design aspects. Even my family,
    who is supportive, doesn't like to talk about the design.


    alt.comp.periphs.keyboard (moribund)

    Your project is as much a mechanical design project
    as an electrical one.

    It's probably easier to get an existing keyboard and
    have custom keycaps made for it.

    https://doi.ieeecomputersociety.org/cms/Computer.org/dl/mags/an/2005/01/figures/a102714.gif

    18 x 12 matrix = 216 keys

    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/14/17023214_7722c7e5cb_b.jpg

    288 keys

    https://www.atariarchives.org/deli/keyboard_karma4.jpg

    400+ keys

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Large_chinese_keyboard.jpg

    *******

    The comment here: "But it never became mainstream"

    You would have to ask yourself what all the reasons could be,
    that a 400+ key keyboard did not take off.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_input_methods_for_computers

    You know you're in a bad business to start with, when
    established keyboard companies retire from the market,
    leaving things to Chinese suppliers.

    There are people trying to make "boutique" keyboards and
    charge 4x as much for them, but their key cost is likely
    higher too. These keyboards have various illumination schemes.
    The target market is called "gamers".

    You can make anything you want for yourself of course. You
    could even use existing keyboard matrix chips, combine several
    of them, include a small microcontroller, and do all the
    remapping of keyup and keydown in there. But what is the
    computer going to do with the input ? OSes typically have HID
    drivers for maybe three formats of keyboards. Leaving a couple
    hundred of your keys as "options" for a custom driver. Then
    you have to write drivers for every OS you're going to support.

    *******

    Why not:

    1) Use a standard keyboard.
    2) Buy a touchscreen LCD monitor and place an OSK application
    on the second monitor. Your special function keys can be
    touch screen keys. You can even split the keys and use
    two touch screens with half the special keys on each.
    Being screen graphics, you can write titles for each
    screen key dynamically, and have "modal" behavior if you
    want.

    Then all you need to do is design monitor stands for the two
    touchscreens. A high end video card has sufficient mini
    DisplayPort connectors to drive three monitors.

    Paul

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  • From Rick C. Hodgin@21:1/5 to Paul on Thu Jul 26 10:54:06 2018
    On 7/26/2018 10:40 AM, Paul wrote:
    [snip]

    Thank you for your encouragement, Paul.

    --
    Rick C. Hodgin

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  • From Rick C. Hodgin@21:1/5 to Rick C. Hodgin on Thu Jul 26 10:59:53 2018
    On 7/26/2018 8:58 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
    Anybody out there want to discuss home-built hardware?

    Does anybody else (other than "Paul") want to discuss home-built
    hardware?

    --
    Rick C. Hodgin

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  • From Rick C. Hodgin@21:1/5 to Paul on Thu Jul 26 11:52:23 2018
    On 7/26/2018 11:35 AM, Paul wrote:
    [snip]

    I would reply to you via email but you don't use a valid email.

    I'm not taking any of your advice, anonymous "Paul."

    I wish the best, but your ideas are not in line with my goals, do
    not have any thoughts toward me, my time, my goals, the investment
    of time I've already had in this project over potentially years,
    and I do not wish to pursue anything you have to suggest.

    Please stop responding to my posts.

    --
    Rick C. Hodgin

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Rick C. Hodgin on Thu Jul 26 11:35:07 2018
    Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
    On 7/26/2018 10:40 AM, Paul wrote:
    [snip]

    Thank you for your encouragement, Paul.


    It's my feeling you should prototype the
    idea first in "glass", and test it for
    a while, and see whether the idea flies
    in actual usage.

    That way, you don't commit resources to no
    good end.

    If the concept proves out, your "glass" prototype
    can be used to impress investors.

    If the investor is too far away, they can buy
    touch screen panels like the ones you prototyped
    on, and run your test code for themselves, to
    try out the idea. See if the layout or extra keys
    are helpful or not.

    There is a limit to how large a PCB you can
    make, from a soldering perspective. You will
    have to keep that in mind, when making your
    largest assemblies. In one project I worked on,
    it would have taken four passes through the soldering
    machine, to process everything. The actual
    laminate materials, in bulk form, are much larger
    than a soldering line can handle, and are always
    cut to size. The larger the keyboard you make
    (if a monolithic assembly), the harder it
    will be to make a stiff housing for it.

    This is what your competition is making.

    https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-3RA-00022-Surface-Ergonomic-Keyboard/dp/B01MFCTRZM

    And look carefully at the review comments for that item.
    Do you see how whiny the customers are ? Yes, that's
    what your customers will be like. You have to please
    people like that, to be successful.

    Now, look at the feedback on boutique keyboards.
    Same thing. The tiniest mistake in the feature set,
    can doom the product to non-sales. To be successful
    in the keyboard market, you have to be on the top of
    your game. It's like the entire HID market. Mice or
    trackballs. People either love your stuff or hate
    it with a passion - then when they love it,
    they expect you to offer it for sale at a
    $20 price point. You're dealing with an impossible
    to please customer base.

    Paul

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  • From Bob F@21:1/5 to Rick C. Hodgin on Thu Jul 26 13:36:56 2018
    On 7/26/2018 8:52 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
    On 7/26/2018 11:35 AM, Paul wrote:
    [snip]

    I would reply to you via email but you don't use a valid email.

    I'm not taking any of your advice, anonymous "Paul."

    I wish the best, but your ideas are not in line with my goals, do
    not have any thoughts toward me, my time, my goals, the investment
    of time I've already had in this project over potentially years,
    and I do not wish to pursue anything you have to suggest.

    Please stop responding to my posts.


    Nice way to treat the most helpful and knowledgeable person I've seen on
    any of the computer related newsgroups. :-(

    Paul - you're the man!

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  • From Rick C. Hodgin@21:1/5 to Bob F on Thu Jul 26 19:11:20 2018
    On 7/26/2018 4:36 PM, Bob F wrote:
    Nice way to treat the most helpful and knowledgeable person I've seen on any of the computer related newsgroups. :-(


    It'll be my loss then.

    --
    Rick C. Hodgin

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