• Repairing ANGLE VALVE(?) The fills toilet tank - Solider vs Compres

    From MrTsquare@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 4 18:55:33 2016
    In article <ng7v0n$kad$1@dont-email.me>, nospam@needed.com says...

    Ateotom@nohotmail.com wrote:
    Solider vs Compressing fitting?
    Current the valve is >30 years old and leaking at the steam. I am not
    sure if I can just change out a waster or not. The valve is currently soldired to the copper pipe. Is one way better then the an other? I
    would like to buy a good valve, one that would last at least another
    30 but I don't know if the quality matters. Also, there is a hard
    metal pipe that feeds the toliet tank. I am thinking about replacing
    this with a flex pipe? Good idea or not?
    I'm don't have a lot of experience with soldiering but I know the
    basics. So, is one way better then the other?
    Ateotom

    There is a group called "alt.home.repair" and
    the experts over there can help.

    *******

    In my experience, first, do not panic :-)
    You may not need to do anything to it.

    Some of the valves in your house are "proportional".
    These are the higher quality valves. The valve on
    your kitchen sink is high quality. What are
    the distinguishing characteristics of a proportional valve ?

    1) Stem does not leak.
    2) Valve can be set to any proportional position
    between full off and full on, and is perfectly
    functional. There are several sets of O-rings
    to prevent leakage.

    Now, how does the toilet tank valve differ ?

    1) Stem leaks, unless the valve is all-the-way shut
    or all-the-way open.
    2) The valve is not really intended as a proportional
    control. You don't "set the toilet tank fill rate"
    with it. The toilet tank runs as fast as it can.
    If the tiny tube inside the tank, that points at
    the larger vertical tube, is "spraying and making
    a mess", fix it. But don't expect the toilet tank
    valve to support proportional operation.

    When you turn off the water using the toilet tank valve,
    do not over-tighten the knob. Only use enough force to
    stop the flow of water. Definitely, don't use a wrench
    to close the valve.


    Interesting, Paul. Only thing about the valves is that I never wanted
    to open them all the way to the stop to keep them from
    freezing/coorroding open. 40+ years in this house and I have replaced
    both toilets and never had a problem with a leaking valve or stem. The
    thing that scared me in replavcing the toilets was the old bendable/according-like pipes from the valve to the base of the toilet
    tank. Replaced those with the flexible kind.

    Oh well.... Back to computers? Is there anything you can't do 500 words
    on?? :<)

    T2

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Ateotom@nohotmail.com on Mon May 2 13:28:21 2016
    Ateotom@nohotmail.com wrote:
    Solider vs Compressing fitting?
    Current the valve is >30 years old and leaking at the steam. I am not
    sure if I can just change out a waster or not. The valve is currently soldired to the copper pipe. Is one way better then the an other? I
    would like to buy a good valve, one that would last at least another
    30 but I don't know if the quality matters. Also, there is a hard
    metal pipe that feeds the toliet tank. I am thinking about replacing
    this with a flex pipe? Good idea or not?
    I'm don't have a lot of experience with soldiering but I know the
    basics. So, is one way better then the other?
    Ateotom

    There is a group called "alt.home.repair" and
    the experts over there can help.

    *******

    In my experience, first, do not panic :-)
    You may not need to do anything to it.

    Some of the valves in your house are "proportional".
    These are the higher quality valves. The valve on
    your kitchen sink is high quality. What are
    the distinguishing characteristics of a proportional valve ?

    1) Stem does not leak.
    2) Valve can be set to any proportional position
    between full off and full on, and is perfectly
    functional. There are several sets of O-rings
    to prevent leakage.

    Now, how does the toilet tank valve differ ?

    1) Stem leaks, unless the valve is all-the-way shut
    or all-the-way open.
    2) The valve is not really intended as a proportional
    control. You don't "set the toilet tank fill rate"
    with it. The toilet tank runs as fast as it can.
    If the tiny tube inside the tank, that points at
    the larger vertical tube, is "spraying and making
    a mess", fix it. But don't expect the toilet tank
    valve to support proportional operation.

    When you turn off the water using the toilet tank valve,
    do not over-tighten the knob. Only use enough force to
    stop the flow of water. Definitely, don't use a wrench
    to close the valve.

    When you turn the water on, with that toilet tank valve,
    open the valve all the way, until the spindle hits the
    stop on the back of the housing. That is intended to
    make the stem water-tight.

    Now, say that you open the valve all the way, as suggested,
    and there are still a couple drops of water on the stem.
    Don't panic. Place a suitable container below the valve...
    and wait. Give it a few hours. Wipe the valve stem with
    tissue or paper towel, to dry it, then check in a few
    minutes to see if any new droplets form. If you wait
    a few hours, you may find it stops leaking. I have
    dodged the need to repair the valve several times,
    by being patient and watchful. And it stops leaking.
    Not a drop of water has come from my stem in years, after
    my initial panic that it would not stop leaking.

    *******

    To do the following, you will need to turn off the
    water to the entire house, using the main valve at
    the water meter. Time this operation, so that nobody
    is inconvenienced.

    If you look at some valves, they have a "nut" on top,
    just below the handle.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Tap.png/535px-Tap.png

    The nut can be turned with a pipe wrench, while adjusting
    the handle and stem so they don't jam up. You may have
    to rotate the handle a bit, while you use the wrench on
    the nut.

    You can take the whole stem and handle, to the plumbing
    store, and look for a replacement. Make sure you bleed
    the upstairs plumbing, so there is no dead volume of
    water to pour all over the floor when you remove the
    stem.

    http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumbingrepair/ss/fau_repair_comp.htm#step5

    Then, when you come home again, the stem will have to be
    rotated until the handle is as high as it will go, before
    placing it back into the valve body and tightening the nut.
    You don't want to damage the valve seat when re-installing it.

    I did that style of repair, to my outside water tap used
    for my garden hose. Removed the whole stem and knob,
    took it to a real plumbing store, and they had one
    that looked exactly like it. (I couldn't believe it.)
    It fit perfectly, and I could turn on the water again
    after only a 1.5 hour delay or so (to drive to the store
    and back again).

    Even a new spindle assembly can leak at the stem, but
    just remember that this one is not proportional, and
    should be operated fully off or fully on. That's what
    works best for me.

    *******

    When working on the bottom of the toilet tank,
    you will find various parts in this picture, can
    be made of plastic or made of metal.

    http://www.homedepot.com/hdus/en_US/DTCCOMNEW/fetch/DIY_Projects_and_Ideas/Plumbing/Guides/replace-toilet-fill-valve-guide-HT-PG-PL-step-01.jpg

    You cannot mix the two systems. If the threaded
    piece feeding through the toilet tank is metal,
    the nut that screws onto the bottom should be metal too.
    You cannot mix a metal nut with a plastic threaded
    portion, or a plastic nut with a metal threaded
    portion. I learned this the hard way. At first,
    I thought I would be able to get away with it,
    but couldn't get the fitting tight enough
    (without damaging some plastic threads). If
    all the materials were plastic, it would be
    OK, as the threads on either part, deform
    an equal amount. They share the damage.

    As a result, I have several left over toilet
    tank valves, because the threaded base
    is made of the wrong material. You have
    to select a toilet tank valve type, so
    that no "soldering" of pipes anywhere,
    is needed. So far, I haven't soldered anything
    when working on the toilet.

    Only one store in town, carries brass valve bodies,
    and they may not have any left by now. I haven't shopped
    for one in perhaps ten years. I do know the plastic ones
    are all too available, and I don't like them.

    *******

    And while you can find some of these which are
    quality designs, this article shows some older ones
    had problems.

    http://www.thestar.com/business/2010/06/24/daw_flooding_from_cheap_toilet_hoses_prompts_court_battles.html

    The normal rules apply. If the materials on the end
    aren't the same type, you may not be able to get the
    nut tight enough to keep it water tight. When I used
    those flex hoses on my bathroom basin taps, the fittings
    were the same material as what I was connecting them
    to - and they only reduce the water flow a little bit.
    The new basin valves I purchased on the other hand,
    restricted water flow a lot. I cannot fill the bathroom
    basin very fast at all.

    I'm not a plumber, and I learn everything by bad experience.

    Good luck, and you have my sympathies :-)

    Paul

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