So why do you think caused the Titan to implode? I think it was the carbine fiber the vessel was made of. I also think shortcuts were taken
to save money. What are your thoughts?
So why do you think caused the Titan to implode? I think it was the
So why do you think caused the Titan to implode? I think it was the carbine fiber the vessel was made of. I also think shortcuts were taken
The thing had been criticized for years as unsafe, and
they actively resisted getting any sort of safety
certification, with now-tragic results. In the clarity
So why do you think caused the Titan to implode? I think it was the carbine fiber the vessel was made of. I also think shortcuts were tak
The thing had been criticized for years as unsafe, and
they actively resisted getting any sort of safety
certification, with now-tragic results. In the clarity
Why do these things happen when "citizens" are the passengers?
This catastrophy is reminent of the space shuttle.
These people paid obscene amounts of money to descend to the
wreck site of the Titanic and do what, exactly? Gawk at the
hubris and folly of man? It's macabre.
I mean, a migrant boat capsized in the Mediterranean last week
and hundreds of people died, but we didn't see wall-to-wall
coverage of that.
This was a private vessel operating as part of a for-profit
venture providing, effectively, deep-sea tourism. Who else
These people paid obscene amounts of money to descend to the
wreck site of the Titanic and do what, exactly? Gawk at the
I mean, a migrant boat capsized in the Mediterranean last week
and hundreds of people died, but we didn't see wall-to-wall
coverage of that.
The thing had been criticized for years as unsafe, and
they actively resisted getting any sort of safety
certification, with now-tragic results. In the clarity
of hindsight, their bluster about such things "stifling
innovation" seems particularly ridiculous.
These people paid obscene amounts of money to descend to the
wreck site of the Titanic and do what, exactly? Gawk at the
hubris and folly of man? It's macabre.
This catastrophy is reminent of the space shuttle.
I mean, a migrant boat capsized in the Mediterranean last week
and hundreds of people died, but we didn't see wall-to-wall
coverage of that.
apam wrote to tenser <=-
the wreck from getting trashed, why not. There are people fasinated by history and ship enthusiasts, people who might like to visit the
resting place of family. I say probably best to keep the interior off limits though.
So if Elon Musk blows up on his next space journey it's on him eh?
So why do you think caused the Titan to implode? I think it was the carbine fiber the vessel was made of. I also think shortcuts were taken
to save money. What are your thoughts?
This was a private vessel operating as part of a for-profit
venture providing, effectively, deep-sea tourism. Who else
So if Elon Musk blows up on his next space journey it's on him eh?
it's easy to become arrogant when you have repeated success with your equipment.. i'm sure every time they returned safely they just thought "see that was fine" .. probably laughed at the nay-sayers. not anymore.
I mean, a migrant boat capsized in the Mediterranean last week
and hundreds of people died, but we didn't see wall-to-wall
coverage of that.
And I believe this was part of the issue, too - fiber carbon, unlike titanium and steel of yesteryear, was untested in how it reacts to MANY dives... expand, shrink, expand, shrink x12 - b00m.
tenser wrote to HusTler <=-
So why do you think caused the Titan to implode? I think it was the carbine fiber the vessel was made of. I also think shortcuts were taken
to save money. What are your thoughts?
The thing had been criticized for years as unsafe,
they actively resisted getting any sort of safety certification,
with now-tragic results.
In the clarity
of hindsight, their bluster about such things "stifling
innovation" seems particularly ridiculous.
And, certainly, here, obviously lots of things should've been done
better. But, really, I only feel bad for the people who would've been fairly convinced of its safety, or the 19-year-old who reportedly did
not want to go, but went as a favor to his dad for fathers' day.
tenser wrote to Hustler <=-
These people paid obscene amounts of money to descend to the
wreck site of the Titanic and do what, exactly? Gawk at the
hubris and folly of man? It's macabre.
Blue White wrote to apam <=-
There is also interest in the wreckage because it is apparently being eaten by some sort of bacteria and it eventually will no longer be
there.
paulie420 wrote to fusion <=-
And I believe this was part of the issue, too - fiber carbon, unlike titanium and steel of yesteryear, was untested in how it reacts to MANY dives... expand, shrink, expand, shrink x12 - b00m.
disconnex wrote to tenser <=-
I always question when the media sensationalizes one story over the others. At the end of the day these were just 5 people who met an
untimely fate.
Re: Re: Submarine Deaths
By: tenser to Hustler on Sat Jun 24 2023 03:28 am
This was a private vessel operating as part of a for-profit
venture providing, effectively, deep-sea tourism. Who else
So if Elon Musk blows up on his next space journey it's on him eh?
250,000.00 a pop. They had to sign papers that warned them of this
thing.
It's goin to take a while but I'm really curious about the shape of this thing. It's shape and what it was made of. Today they said the thing was cracking and they were trying to abort.
These people paid obscene amounts of money to descend to the
wreck site of the Titanic and do what, exactly? Gawk at the
hubris and folly of man? It's macabre.
The one thing I have not gleaned from any of the coverage is whether or not the sub had successfully been to that depth before.
This catastrophy is reminent of the space shuttle.
I mean, a migrant boat capsized in the Mediterranean last week
and hundreds of people died, but we didn't see wall-to-wall
coverage of that.
We might have if it had capsized off of our coast. I wonder what the coverage was like in the country/ies near where it happened?
My hunch is that beneath the waters surface one of the last places on earth for things to be done out of sight and out of mind, and by pushing this story into the public mind sends the message to "stay away this is unsafe, nothing to se here worth dying for".
Imagine if they shed light on the deaths of migrants crossing the oceans with as much vigor as they did these 5 "explorers". They would create
the general idea within the public to be against anyone coming to shore
by boat because it would be too dangerous, and that would go against
their agenda.
tenser wrote to Hustler <=-
These people paid obscene amounts of money to descend to the
wreck site of the Titanic and do what, exactly? Gawk at the
hubris and folly of man? It's macabre.
I just read about I-52, a japanese WWII cargo sub that sank with a
variety of cargo, including a significant amount of gold. The Japanese government declared it a grave site, but GOLD.
And the death of yet another Woke company will follow. Again, another win.
it's easy to become arrogant when you have repeated success with your equipment.. i'm sure every time they returned safely they just thought "see that was fine" .. probably laughed at the nay-sayers. not anymore.
From what I understand, this is also a risk for carbon fiber in other instances.
Occam's Razor almost certainly applies here. Years in, we've
become inured to migrants dying crossing the Med; but billionaires
trapped in a sub on the bottom of the ocean next to the wreck
of the Titanic?
Now that's a juicy story.
I really don't think that it's more complex than that.
And the death of yet another Woke company will follow. Again, anothe win.
Yes, it's light. Yes it has great tensile strength. But,
it shatters. Some of the newer America's Cup sailboats
shattered in the waves and foundered.
Andrew's point about _why_ people may want to visit the
Titanic seems sound to me, but that it costs a quarter
of a million US to go still seems kind of macabre.
tenser wrote to Blue White <=-
That's a fair point; I am curious what the Greek press has
to say about the whole thing.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to tenser <=-
I just read about I-52, a japanese WWII cargo sub that sank with a
variety of cargo, including a significant amount of gold. The Japanese government declared it a grave site, but GOLD.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to paulie420 <=-
Yes, it's light. Yes it has great tensile strength. But, it shatters.
Some of the newer America's Cup sailboats shattered in the waves and foundered.
Aside: I read a study that looked at the impact of the Titanic and
other iceberg impacts, and hypothesized that if the Titanic hadn't
tried to maneuver to miss the iceberg, it would have hit head-on and survived, since only the bow compartments would have flooded.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to disconnex <=-
I always question when the media sensationalizes one story over the others. At the end of the day these were just 5 people who met an
untimely fate.
We had a caucasian news anchor on a local channel with a mixed-race
adopted daughter who called out the media frenzy over missing white
girls, while non-white missing kid stories may make it to the chyron
and be forgotten. He didn't last long.
Ogg wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Yes, it's light. Yes it has great tensile strength. But,
it shatters. Some of the newer America's Cup sailboats
shattered in the waves and foundered.
Founder, such a strange word. It means to fail (which is a
negative thing)..
Break down, literally or metaphorically
"The wall foundered"
Fail utterly; collapse
"The project foundered"
Yet is also means to create (which is a positive thing)..
A person who founds or establishes some institution
"Foundered" is not the same word as "Founds".
I mean, a migrant boat capsized in the Mediterranean last week
and hundreds of people died, but we didn't see wall-to-wall
coverage of that.
Its crazy that we send the earth, moon AND stars for 5 humans - when an entire boat full were in a similar situation.
had no idea; like the rest of the world, I was glued to the sub story - and had no idea that dozens of humans were trapped, drowning and in need of assets.
The problem with aluminum is that when it breaks, it turns into a hot molten slug that shoots into your car. I picked the carbon fiber intentionally to have something that would shred to pieces at failure.
So it seems a weird idea to use for a submersible...
While bad, it's not that tragic. A bunch of people stupid enough to put their lives in the hands of an incompetent Woke company died.
it's easy to become arrogant when you have repeated success with your equipment.. i'm sure every time they returned safely they just though "see that was fine" .. probably laughed at the nay-sayers. not anymor
It's like someone sucking down a pack of smokes and then saying they didn't catch lung cancer.
Adept wrote to Dr. What <=-
Incompetent company, but not sure how they were "woke".
They're just another startup,
As an aside, to me "woke" is an extremely political term, so please be careful with using it, as this is not the place for such discussions.
I think the true cause was exploration... the attempt to push boundaries, of epths for decades... and safely - the Adam submarine has went down to the Ti ight and CERTIFICATION.
Andrew's point about _why_ people may want to visit the
Titanic seems sound to me, but that it costs a quarter
of a million US to go still seems kind of macabre.
careful with using it, as this is not the place for such discussions.Political or not, it was part of this situation and should not be
ignored.
Too often certain people don't want the term "woke" to be applied to failures even when it's clear that the failure was caused by woke ideology.
Founder, such a strange word. It means to fail (which is a
negative thing)..
Yet is also means to create (which is a positive thing)..
open to visitors have dungeons in which they let the corpses of
prisoners pile up until there was a layer of 1.5 meters of dead people
and for some reason nobody thinks visiting such places is macabre.
Adept wrote to Dr. What <=-
If they
_didn't_ hire old, white, experienced guys, they failed at getting a diverse workforce.
That said, I think a dungeon with a layer of 1.5 meters of dead people would
That said, I think a dungeon with a layer of 1.5 meters of dead peopleI meant they let corpses pile up in the pass, centuries ago. Then they converted the room into a souvenir store.
Which is a fascinating topic. It's why, when tornado sirens go off,
people start asking each other if everything is okay, etc., rather than doing the safe thing.
Who's company president publically stated that he wanted a diverse group of employees instead of competant people (i.e. old white men).
esc wrote to Dr. What <=-
Who's company president publically stated that he wanted a diverse group of employees instead of competant people (i.e. old white men).
I think you're mischaracterizing why he picked the people he did. He
just didn't want old dudes piloting this thing because he didn't think
it would excite people.
I did not mischaracterize anything. He wanted diversity over competence.
esc wrote to Dr. What <=-
I did not mischaracterize anything. He wanted diversity over competence.
Fun facts for ya
Navy sub captains are typically under or around 30.
All of the top leadership at the company were over 50.
The guy piloting the sub, the CEO, was 61.
Ummmmm..... no. Closer to 40 than 30. It also varies by submarine
type, where an "attack" sub is commanded by a Navy Commander (rank O-5), but the "missile" subs are commanded by a Navy Captain (rank O-6). You do not reach those ranks by age 30, ever. Most Commanders are late
30's, and most Captains are early/mid 40's.
Background - I did 28 years in the Navy, and served on a submarine briefly in my early career. :-)
esc wrote to Gamgee <=-
Ummmmm..... no. Closer to 40 than 30. It also varies by submarine
type, where an "attack" sub is commanded by a Navy Commander (rank O-5), but the "missile" subs are commanded by a Navy Captain (rank O-6). You
do not reach those ranks by age 30, ever. Most Commanders are late
30's, and most Captains are early/mid 40's.
Fair enough :) But still not super old white dudes.
However I'm friends with a former nuclear sub XO and he said that
for the most part, sub crews are very young. He was in his 20s as
XO.
Ogg wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Yet is also means to create (which is a positive thing)..
A person who founds or establishes some institution
Blue White wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
IndyCar car body parts are made of carbon fibre because it shatters on impact and dissapates energy.
Blue White wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I saw that also. Interesting hypothesis. I don't know about the bow
of the Titanic, but I think the bows of some ships are designed to be
more sturdy than other parts of he hull.
Adept wrote to Dr. What <=-
Well, aside from, "She woke with a start, her pleasant dream imploding like a rich man's carbon-fiber submersible.".
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Blue White <=-
There's a story about bomber designers looking at damage patterns of US bombers during WW II. There were definite patterns of bullet holes in surviving airplanes that they wanted to go ahead and re-inforce. One of the engineers said they needed to look at the areas that *didn't* get
hit, hypothesizing that the ones that were hit in those areas didn't
make it back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
Gamgee wrote to esc <=-
All of the top leadership at the company were over 50.
The guy piloting the sub, the CEO, was 61.
No argument with any of that.
Blue White wrote to Gamgee <=-
All of the top leadership at the company were over 50.
The guy piloting the sub, the CEO, was 61.
No argument with any of that.
I wonder what experience he had.
Gamgee wrote to Blue White <=-
I wonder what experience he had.
Not completely sure, but I think he (the CEO) was generally the pilot
of the sub on previous missions.
Blue White wrote to Gamgee <=-
I wonder what experience he had.
Not completely sure, but I think he (the CEO) was generally the pilot
of the sub on previous missions.
Yeah, I was thinking before that. Like was he in the Navy and on
a sub, or did he work for other companies/government
organizations that do deep sea exploration?
Guess I am looking for experience that should have taught him not
to skimp on safety and/or inspect the equipment more often.
esc wrote to Dr. What <=-
I did not mischaracterize anything. He wanted diversity over competence.
Fun facts for ya
It's an auto-antonym! A word that means one meaning and its opposite.
Like Home-bound.
Like Home-bound.I thought that was house-bound. And from where I come from,
that means limited or restricted within one's home. Where-as
your example means "on the way home".
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